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How do most Americans feel about Christian Nationalism?
By islander
August 23, 2023 5:38 am
Category: Politics

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The Pew Research Center has a very good article on this and not surprisingly, it seems for the most part, we Americans have an unfavorable view of Christian nationalism.



However there are some Christian Nationalists even in our Congress like the self described Christian Nationalist congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green, along with CN supporters congresswoman Lauren Boebert, Mary Miller U.S. representative for Illinois, and Doug Mastriano who has served in the Pennsylvania Senate and has called our country’s separation of church and state a myth.

Andrew Torba, the CEO of the alt-tech platform Gab, supported Mastriano's failed 2022 bid for office, in order to build a grass-roots Christian nationalist political movement to help "take back" government power for "the glory of God"; he has argued that "unapologetic Christian Nationalism is what will save the United States of America".

Then of course, we have commentator Nick Fuentes another unabashed Christian nationalist.

As I said, the Pew Research Center has an excellent piece on Christian Nationalism which is very informative and well worth reading for anyone interested in learning more about Christian Nationalism, what it is, and what it means for our country. 

Click the link below...


Cited and related links:

  1. pewresearch.org

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Comments on "How do most Americans feel about Christian Nationalism?":

  1. by oldedude on August 23, 2023 6:04 am
    My question still stands. You've never "Defined" Christian Nationalism. Does it only include the far alt right Christians? or what. I know I have a view of it, but like it said in the article, not many actually know what it means.

    The first rule in a "debate" is to agree on terms. What do words mean. I reference that article last week. We (all) got heated over the use of two words, and the "assumption" by one that it the meaning was the same. And the other group reading it different. So until that happens, you're setting yourself up for an inane fight that you're asking for.

    This isn't a gotcha or anything else. I would just like your definition to agree on or not.


  2. by HatetheSwamp on August 23, 2023 6:23 am

    Feel? Interesting question.

    Good article. My primary takeaway from it is that the term means whatever people want it to mean.

    The guy who taught me Hebrew was a brilliant linguist. He certainly could speak and read Hebrew but, really, he was a philosopher of communication. The one thing that he taught me that I remember most clearly is, "A word that means everything, means nothing."

    isle,

    If you could induce each of us, independent of the others, to define your term in 25 words or less, I'm positive that each of us would present distinct definitions.

    In fact, that's what your chapter reveals. Hundreds upon hundreds of unique and widely varied understandings of what you're even talking about.

    After all, what is a "Christian?"
    What is "nationalism?"

    Here's the core truth I took from your link: The only people I have ever known to use the term Christian Nationalism" are bigoted anti-Christian theophobes. I've never known an "evangelical" on his or her own, to use the term.

    It's your own woke version of calling a Jew a Kike, or an Italian a Wop. "S/He's a Christian Nationalist!"

    How do I FEEL about it?

    Aggrieved...that so many woke people are up in arms because members of the extremely diverse American community that has some sort of faith in Jesus involves itself in our constitutional republic.


  3. by HatetheSwamp on August 23, 2023 6:25 am

    My question still stands. You've never "Defined" Christian Nationalism.

    Bang on.

    It's merely a short-cut to anti-Christian bigotry.


  4. by islander on August 23, 2023 7:01 am

    LoL !!!

    Didn't take long for this post to attract the trolls !!

    However, like they say..."It's best not to feed the trolls"...
    i.ibb.co


  5. by HatetheSwamp on August 23, 2023 7:06 am

    isle,

    If you'd hoped to silence our speech, you should have specified that the feelings of OD and pb don't matter. Keehee baha ha.


  6. by Ponderer on August 23, 2023 9:08 am

    This seems to sum it up quite succinctly:


    "Christian nationalism is a type of religious nationalism that is affiliated with Christianity, which primarily focuses on the internal politics of society, such as legislating civil and criminal laws that reflect their view of Christianity and the role of religion in political and social life.

    In countries with a state church, Christian nationalists seek to preserve the status of a Christian state by holding an antidisestablishmentarian position to perpetuate the Church in national politics.

    Christian nationalism supports the presence of Christian symbols in the public square, and state patronage for the practice and display of religion, such as school prayer and the exhibition of nativity scenes during Christmastide, and the Christian Cross on Good Friday. Christian nationalism draws political support from the broader Christian right of the political spectrum of a country."

    [...]

    "Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene has referred to herself as a Christian nationalist. Fellow congresswomen Lauren Boebert and Mary Miller have also expressed support for Christian nationalism. Politician Doug Mastriano is a prominent figure in the fundamentalist Christian nationalist movement, and has called the separation of church and state a myth."

    "Andrew Torba, the CEO of the alt-tech platform Gab, supported Mastriano's failed 2022 bid for office, in order to build a grass-roots Christian nationalist political movement to help "take back" government power for "the glory of God"; he has argued that "unapologetic Christian Nationalism is what will save the United States of America". Torba is also a proponent of the great replacement conspiracy theory, and he has said that "The best way to stop White genocide and White replacement, both of which are demonstrably and undeniably happening [ 🤣 ], is to get married to a White woman and have a lot of White babies". White nationalist Nick Fuentes has also expressed support for Christian nationalism."


    Happy to help!

    en.wikipedia.org


  7. by Ponderer on August 23, 2023 9:12 am

    And by the way, Christian Nationalism is a very dangerous thing for our country and our democracy. Really bad. Horrible in fact. Absolutely and undeniably disastrous. Thank God it will never be implemented here in the U.S..


  8. by oldedude on August 23, 2023 9:48 am
    Great cover for isle ther, po


  9. by oldedude on August 23, 2023 9:50 am
    So it's woke with the opposite intentions. One is to preserve the constitution, the other is to destroy it and put one out there they like, and turn everyone woke. got it.


  10. by Indy! on August 23, 2023 9:52 am

    Another appropriate throwback from my interminable archival effort...



  11. by HatetheSwamp on August 23, 2023 10:05 am

    "Christian nationalism is a type of religious nationalism that is affiliated with Christianity, which primarily focuses on the internal politics of society, such as legislating civil and criminal laws that reflect their view of Christianity and the role of religion in political and social life.

    Perfectly appropriate in a constitutional republic, eh!!!!!

    However there are some Christian Nationalists even in our Congress like the self described Christian Nationalist congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green, along with CN supporters congresswoman Lauren Boebert, Mary Miller U.S. representative for Illinois, and Doug Mastriano who has served in the Pennsylvania Senate and has called our country’s separation of church and state a myth.

    Andrew Torba, the CEO of the alt-tech platform Gab, supported Mastriano's failed 2022 bid for office, in order to build a grass-roots Christian nationalist political movement to help "take back" government power for "the glory of God"; he has argued that "unapologetic Christian Nationalism is what will save the United States of America".


    As all bigots do, po, you're defining an entire class of people by the most objectionable members of the group.

    As isle's article indicates, people understand Christian Nationalism in many ways.

    One truth is obvious on SS. None of us who are active currently, embrace Christian Nationalism in the way you Christophes define it.


  12. by oldedude on August 23, 2023 10:34 am
    isle #4- Didn't take long for this post to attract the trolls !!

    All I did was to ask the standard question in ANY DEBATE. And you avoided the subject and claimed you were "attacked." I thought that was a VERY civil question. I even explained it was an honest question, which I though you "might" answer. You know, being a master debater and all.

    po #6- Christian nationalism supports the presence of Christian symbols in the public square, and state patronage for the practice and display of religion, such as school prayer and the exhibition of nativity scenes during Christmastide, and the Christian Cross on Good Friday. Christian nationalism draws political support from the broader Christian right of the political spectrum of a country."

    Sincerely, thanks for this. I did some looking at some very Christian sites. Everyone is pretty confused about this. That was the point of this exercise.

    My big question is "where do I fall?"

    Being a libertarian, there are some of those things I do believe in. I don't have an issue with Christian symbols in public. I've been to Arlington too many times for it to bother me. School prayer can be done on an individual basis. Nativity scenes during the Holy days? I don't have an issue with that. Crosses on Good Friday? I'm assuming the Catholic version on the forehead. Why do I care if someone does that to themselves? I do mind cooks with puss coming out of their piercings, but that's a health thing.

    I have always voted pretty conservativity, especially as I lived in different parts of the world. The Christians are voting much closer to me than the libs.
    Abortion is one, but there's a willingness to compromise as Donna and I have done (for the most part on this).

    If two of the same sex are domiciled together? I don't care. It's that simple. Not my business. To me, "Married" is a term that to me is very specific. My beliefs are that it is between a man and woman. That said, I will always call your wife your wife, recognizing that you two are legally married. We have good friends (lesbians) that are married. I do the same thing. Respect is different.

    Am I willing to speak on "wokeness?" Yes. Will I vote for anything woke? No. Will I burn down cities against the wokesters? No. Will I go to a demonstration to antagonize the wokesters? No. Will I protect my family and property with every means at my disposal? Yes. And eventually I'll die as a Christian. How that happens isn't up to me.


  13. by islander on August 23, 2023 11:16 am

    Ponderer, I agree with you with what you said, “Christian Nationalism is a very dangerous thing for our country and our democracy”.

    The Pew article alluded to this and I agree since I’m one of the Americans that can plainly see that “Christian nationalism is essentially a tool strategically used by leaders to help appeal to American citizens or to help certain Americans justify their political views. How they do it involves using familiar beliefs, concepts and phrases from Christianity as a cover-up for what are really sociopolitical attitudes. As the article says, "One respondent explains that Christian nationalism is “a political movement that uses Christian values as camouflage” and another calls it “totally wrapping up political behavior in religious clothes.” Christian nationalism is the blending or mixing up of faith and politics so that they are indistinguishable....Spot on! 👍

    All we need to do is look at the Republican leaders and how they have used this idea of Christian Nationalism to emotionally excite and dupe their MAGA base and it’s virtually impossible not to see this.

    Of course, they have created a monster that has immense power in the Republican party but now they're having trouble controlling it.


  14. by HatetheSwamp on August 23, 2023 11:38 am

    isle,

    #13, in its entirety, is a fact-less bigoted strawman.


  15. by oldedude on August 23, 2023 12:08 pm
    I think the Christian right considers itself underdeveloped, and is working to get much, much stronger. Many folks that are Christians are seeing how they're hated by your type. They're tired of it. And they're willing to stand up to the evil.

    I do agree that may mean a separation from all the parties and going on their own. That may mean the GOP will dissolve. Or it might mean it will change. The inclusion of all races is a piece necessary for this to work. Inner cities will still be inner cities. This means the GOP will rally about theological terms and political terms will be the result of that. This is yet another time where the political theory of relativity comes in to play.


  16. by oldedude on August 23, 2023 1:42 pm
    I also think because of the MSM, anything "nationalism" is identified with the Klan, neo NAZIs, etc. Surely on this site, that equation has been used ad nauseam even on this site. That's one of the many problems with the statement. Regardless of what the "definitions" say, the muck is all a dog whistle to the left.

    The GOP is gaining those of color because we don't believe they're helpless people that are too stupid to see through the BS the left peddles. Those white folk burn their houses down (inner cities) and tell everyone "it was 'mostly' 'peaceful.'" The liberal DAs in dim cities hurt the very one's they say they're defending. Except the one's they're defending are the ones the good folks of the city want off the streets. So for the Black SBC and the Latino- Catholics and Baptists, the GOP is a safe haven. Somewhere they can be religious and not mocked.


  17. by oldedude on August 23, 2023 2:08 pm
    Case in point between po and isle.

    isles post in response to po-
    Ponderer, I agree with you with what you said, “Christian Nationalism is a very dangerous thing for our country and our democracy”.

    The Pew article alluded to this and I agree since I’m one of the Americans that can plainly see that “Christian nationalism is essentially a tool strategically used by leaders to help appeal to American citizens or to help certain Americans justify their political views.


    The dog whistle is; "They're all Klan members and "racist" Proud Boys (who accept folks of every race BTW and even in the videos of them, you see varied races on each shot. So WTF "racist" came from, only the leftist dog whistlers know).


  18. by HatetheSwamp on August 23, 2023 2:26 pm

    Ponderer, I agree with you with what you said, “Christian Nationalism is a very dangerous thing for our country and our democracy”.

    The Pew article alluded to this and I agree since I’m one of the Americans that can plainly see that “Christian nationalism is essentially a tool strategically used by leaders to help appeal to American citizens or to help certain Americans justify their political views.


    Y'know, I disagree that Christian Nationalism is dangerous for...our "democracy."

    Mainly because, for all the years I hung out with conservative Christians of several ilks, I've never known a single person who fits the definition that po and isle embraces. Never, EVER. Not, one and we all know that I'm d@ng old. I've asked isle. po, too. Who.

    Who? Who? Who? Who? Who?

    Nuthin.

    It's a boogeyman thing. Sure I'd be scared to death of the boogeyman. But, I ain't.

    Because there ain't no such thing. Baha!


  19. by islander on August 23, 2023 4:22 pm

    I know I don’t really have to tell you folks but sometimes trolls try to disguise themselves as owls. Listen carefully as the try to imitate owl calls, trolls can’t do it. They sound ridiculous when the call out “who” “who” “who” “who.

    Owls advertise their territories with deep, soft hoots with a stuttering rhythm: hoo-h'HOO-hoo-hoo....


  20. by oldedude on August 23, 2023 8:48 pm
    My view. You're trying to fill the BS basket full. you're talking in riddles. "Bad, they may not be. entrapping they are. AHHHHHHHH!"


  21. by oldedude on August 23, 2023 9:26 pm
    and Honestly, you give yourself away as a troll... Prove that you're not....


  22. by HatetheSwamp on August 24, 2023 5:27 am

    Good'ne, isle, you're a hoot. Hoot. Hoot. Hoot. Hoot.

    Baha baha hoohoo heehee baha baha ha!

    But, buddy, that three-letter word, still...who?

    Who? Who? Who? Who? Who?

    Outa 80,000,000+?

    Who!!!!!?


  23. by oldedude on August 24, 2023 6:24 am
    isle is still evading my question that I asked in honesty. All of a sudden he's extremely defensive and (still) evasive. I just wanted a common ground to have the conversation. It's a very gray area in which I think po has a (somewhat) different view of the term. But we can't get past the inane argument for us to communicate. po. I would like you to clarify your position so we can talk about that, if you want.

    OD #1 My question still stands. You've never "Defined" Christian Nationalism. Does it only include the far alt right Christians? or what. I know I have a view of it, but like it said in the article, not many actually know what it means.

    The first rule in a "debate" is to agree on terms. What do words mean. I reference that article last week. We (all) got heated over the use of two words, and the "assumption" by one that it the meaning was the same. And the other group reading it different. So until that happens, you're setting yourself up for an inane fight that you're asking for.

    This isn't a gotcha or anything else. I would just like your definition to agree on or not.


    #12All I did was to ask the standard question in ANY DEBATE. And you avoided the subject and claimed you were "attacked." I thought that was a VERY civil question. I even explained it was an honest question, which I though you "might" answer. You know, being a master debater and all.

    And WE were attacked. I'm saying that we're not the trolls. It's isle. In her defense, po was trying to have a conversation about this before it was Shanghai'd.


  24. by HatetheSwamp on August 24, 2023 6:36 am

    OD,

    Here's my analogy. Hitler could talk about the evils of the Jew-s, plural, but could never describe a Jewish individual guilty of those evils. In the past, I've detailed, for isle, how his thought patterns are those of bigots. And, they are.

    And, this is a case in point. Clearly he's thought deeply and often about the evils of White Christian Nationalists...without ever knowing of a single person who is one. And, that's a scary way of thinking.


  25. by islander on August 24, 2023 6:50 am

    I know better than to feed trolls but I’m being generous so I’ll make an exception this time olddude.

    Your questions have already been clearly answered in detail and the post numbers have been given to you in case you hadn’t read the answers or forgotten them. If you’ve forgotten about those posts just ask and I’ll give you the numbers again. You can then disagree with those specific answers, but once you’ve read the answers you can’t continue to falsely say your questions have never been answered. This goes for the other troll as well, the one that keeps asking for the name of someone who is a Christian Nationalist. Names have already been given....


  26. by HatetheSwamp on August 24, 2023 7:08 am

    Your questions have already been clearly answered in detail and the post numbers have been given to you in case you hadn’t read the answers or forgotten them.

    You don't get to make that judgment, isle.


  27. by HatetheSwamp on August 24, 2023 7:10 am

    Your questions have already been clearly answered in detail and the post numbers have been given to you in case you hadn’t read the answers or forgotten them.

    You don't get to make that judgment, isle.


  28. by Ponderer on August 24, 2023 7:46 am

    Isle, you and the article are right. All too often, Christian Nationalism is used as a pretext for implementing some horrendously unconstitutional thing or other onto the American people. It's like a costume that some politicians wear. America was never intended or designed to ever become a theocracy. But unfortunately, that is exactly what the Christian Nationalists are dead set on turning us into. They must always be stopped.



    "I think the Christian right considers itself underdeveloped, and is working to get much, much stronger. Many folks that are Christians are seeing how they're hated by your type. They're tired of it. And they're willing to stand up to the evil." -olde dude

    "Underdeveloped" how, od? Do you mean that they think they need to get more tax exemptions? Or that they need more right wing Christians in political positions? Do they mean that they need more control over public schools? What is it about the Christian right in America that they think is "underdeveloped"? Their numbers have certainly been dropping over the last couple decades or so. Is it their PR that needs more development? To attract more followers?

    "The dog whistle is; "They're all Klan members and "racist" Proud Boys" -olde dude

    I wish you wouldn't always end up wallowing in mendacious idiocy like that, od. You make some decent points but then you always have to ruin it with some lying idiotic nonsense or other like that.

    I do not hate Christians for being Christians. And I have even said many times in here that I think as religions go, Christianity is one of the best. They can be as Christian as they want to be. But when they try to foist their religion into our laws and our schools and our lives, then I got a problem with them. And even then it's not them, but what they are trying to do to us as a country that we hate and will not abide.



    "Y'know, I disagree that Christian Nationalism is dangerous for...our "democracy."

    Mainly because, for all the years I hung out with conservative Christians of several ilks, I've never known a single person who fits the definition that po and isle embraces. Never, EVER. Not, one and we all know that I'm d@ng old. I've asked isle. po, too. Who.

    Who? Who? Who? Who? Who?"
    -Hate

    I already posted this from the article I linked to, but you mighta missed it:

    "Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene has referred to herself as a Christian nationalist. Fellow congresswomen Lauren Boebert and Mary Miller have also expressed support for Christian nationalism. Politician Doug Mastriano is a prominent figure in the fundamentalist Christian nationalist movement, and has called the separation of church and state a myth."

    And that certainly isn't a full list by a long shot. The MAGA majority of what is left of the Republican party is made up of quite a few Christian Nationalists. I'd even wager that nearly every single politician and lawyer and judge who was instrumental in the process of taking away a woman's Constitutional right to have control over her own body were Christian Nationalists. That asshole judge in Texas who is trying to have an extremely useful and desperately needed drug done away with is most likely one. I can't guarantee it, but everything they did was right out of the Christian Nationalists playbook.

    I'm sorry that these people aren't your neighbors, Bill. I know how much you like to believe that nothing outside of the few mile radius of your bubble ever happens or exists unless you know of personal examples from within the confines of your particular bubble. Maybe if Lauren Boebert lived next door to you, perhaps then you would believe that she and those like her exist.



  29. by islander on August 24, 2023 8:24 am

    Ponderer, Along with the names of those self identified Christian Nationalists from the article, in my opening statement right here I gave the name of another one, "Andrew Torba, the CEO of the alt-tech platform Gab, supported Mastriano's failed 2022 bid for office, in order to build a grass-roots Christian nationalist political movement to help "take back" government power for "the glory of God"; he has argued that "unapologetic Christian Nationalism is what will save the United States of America".

    It is however a waste of time feeding these two trolls, they'll still hollar who who who and say their questions haven't been answered...It's part of what trolls do...Once you take their bait they'll string you along as long as they can.



  30. by Ponderer on August 24, 2023 8:48 am

    It's not so much feeding them. It's more like playing with them.


  31. by Ponderer on August 24, 2023 8:54 am

    "The guy who taught me Hebrew was a brilliant linguist. He certainly could speak and read Hebrew but, really, he was a philosopher of communication. The one thing that he taught me that I remember most clearly is, "A word that means everything, means nothing."" -Hate

    How sad then that you never took his sage teaching to heart....



  32. by Donna on August 24, 2023 9:14 am

    You two have much more patience than me.

    Btw, I deactivated my Facebook account last week because my participation in social media had become a bonafide addiction that was eating up too much of my time. I'm doing lot more reading and playing guitar now since I pulled the plug, and I'm much happier for it.


  33. by islander on August 24, 2023 9:18 am

    Ponderer wrote:"It's not so much feeding them. It's more like playing with them"

    I like that !! 👍

    Although, I have to admit that there are times when I get a little fed up with them.


  34. by oldedude on August 24, 2023 10:44 am
    po #28- "Underdeveloped" how, od? Do you mean that they think they need to get more tax exemptions? Or that they need more right wing Christians in political positions? Do they mean that they need more control over public schools? What is it about the Christian right in America that they think is "underdeveloped"? Their numbers have certainly been dropping over the last couple decades or so. Is it their PR that needs more development? To attract more followers?

    Since isle only gives other people's definition, I'm going to go with "Evangelical Christians" as the organization.

    When you talk about groups (political, military, etc), you rate them on mission, organization, membership (composition), and identification. The rating for each is a 1-5 and is at the end of each paragraph.

    What are they trying to do (mission). Be a domestic force to counter woke identities in society (demanding to use they/them, etc), schools (parental rights in education), and private services (FBI using agents to insert themselves and report on the activity of Catholic Churches). (4 of 5)

    Organization. Not well enough to become a domestic force. Their communications is low between groups although there are groups (parental, anti abortion, etc) that are national, there isn't a national single point of contact, or communication web. (2 of 5)

    Membership/ Identification. Vast latitudes of age and education, inclusive of both genders and locations. Included with this is the lack of definition of "Evangelical." Christians is easy enough. These groups don't have a single definition. Catholics per se, may or may not be included in the members assessment of being in the group. (2 of 5)

    Total score 8 of 20. This seems to be a group with defined intentions, but is poorly organized, trusting in regional or state-wide pockets.

    Regarding it being a dog whistle for wokesters
    I wish you wouldn't always end up wallowing in mendacious idiocy like that, od. You make some decent points but then you always have to ruin it with some lying idiotic nonsense or other like that.

    Case in point #17- isles post in response to po-
    Ponderer, I agree with you with what you said, “Christian Nationalism is a very dangerous thing for our country and our democracy”.

    The Pew article alluded to this and I agree since I’m one of the Americans that can plainly see that “Christian nationalism is essentially a tool strategically used by leaders to help appeal to American citizens or to help certain Americans justify their political views.

    jjpo #28 Isle, you and the article are right. All too often, Christian Nationalism is used as a pretext for implementing some horrendously unconstitutional thing or other onto the American people. It's like a costume that some politicians wear. America was never intended or designed to ever become a theocracy. But unfortunately, that is exactly what the Christian Nationalists are dead set on turning us into. They must always be stopped.



  35. by oldedude on August 24, 2023 10:53 am
    Isle- This is pretty common for you. People ask you for your definition of something, and you always give someone else's definition. Obviously, either they're too vague, or your writing is incomprehensible. OR you don't/ can't have a thought of your own (which is a tad scary).

    If I ask for clarification, I get the response referencing the issue I am asking a question about. That's plain stupid. AND in this I've actually tried to get another viewpoint. This is when I go down to your level and start calling you names, since you only took the fourth post down, and your first post of the thread to start calling names. It was YOU being the troll.


  36. by HatetheSwamp on August 24, 2023 11:03 am

    How sad then that you never took his sage teaching to heart....

    po,

    Didn't you watch OD's video? Keehee!

    OD,

    It's got to just KILL earnest sanctimones to be laughed at.




    youtu.be


  37. by Ponderer on August 24, 2023 5:13 pm



    (Psst... Hey Bill...! Don't tell olde dude, but I never watch any of his videos. I haven't got the vaguest notion of where he gets them. They could be all full of viruses and stuff. Eeew! No thanks.)




  38. by oldedude on August 24, 2023 8:06 pm
    I kinda figured, being an elitist prig and all. Also, being a jj is not useful to anyone that knows you. I chose to not engage with you unless your not in your psychotic spin. Even then, I'm very careful, ya know you doxing "friends" and burning police buildings and all.


  39. by oldedude on August 24, 2023 8:12 pm
    It's that limousine liberal, "everyone else is a piece of shit" attitude that gave me a clue. So have a nice "life" in your hatred, jealousy and judgmental life. May your hatred eat you alive.


  40. by oldedude on August 24, 2023 8:16 pm
    by Donna [#32] on August 24, 2023 9:14 am

    You two have much more patience than me.


    Yes, we do. Thanks for that. I, for one, am exhausted...


  41. by Ponderer on August 24, 2023 8:16 pm

    "As all bigots do, po, you're defining an entire class of people by the most objectionable members of the group." -Hate

    When I talk about Christian Nationalists, I am not talking about anyone other than Christian Nationalists. If someone isn't a Christian Nationalist, then I'm not talking about them. I'm only talking about Christian Nationalists when I'm talking about Christian Nationalists.

    Sorry for your confusion, Bill.


  42. by HatetheSwamp on August 25, 2023 3:27 am

    Don't tell olde dude, but I never watch any of his videos. I haven't got the vaguest notion of where he gets them. They could be all full of viruses and stuff. Eeew! No thanks.

    po,

    Probably a good thing. This'ne'd probly've broke your fragile woke, electric limousine lib lovin brain.

    Still, let not your heart be troubled...

    youtu.be


  43. by islander on August 25, 2023 6:04 am

    olddude wrote: “Isle- This is pretty common for you. People ask you for your definition of something, and you always give someone else's definition.”

    That’s a rather strange thing to say. If two or more people see something in the same way and define it in the same way...Whose definition is it?

    I suspect olddude is thinking that a definition is like a book or a song that can be copyrighted. In other words, does olddude think that a definition of Christian Nationalism for example, that matches my own can’t possibly be the way I define Christian Nationalism too because my definition, even though it’s the same, has to different because that definition which is the same as mine...is someone else’s definition LoL !!


    I dunno...Maybe olddude doesn’t like quotes? Perhaps he thinks I’d have to paraphrase a definition in some way in order to please him, or maybe he thinks he’s Simple Simon?...

Guess what olddude...Ain’t gonna happen !

    In fact, I’m going to repeat my definition of Christian Nationalism in exactly the same words as I did before...Just for you, olddude...🍻

    The Pew article alluded to this and I agree since I’m one of the Americans that can plainly see that “Christian nationalism is essentially a tool strategically used by leaders to help appeal to American citizens or to help certain Americans justify their political views. In their telling, it involves using familiar beliefs, concepts and phrases from Christianity as a cover-up for what are really sociopolitical attitudes. One respondent explains that Christian nationalism is “a political movement that uses Christian values as camouflage” and another calls it “totally wrapping up political behavior in religious clothes.” Christian nationalism is the blending or mixing up of faith and politics so that they are indistinguishable.

    (I know,I know, I'm only feeding the trolls) LoL !!

    pewresearch.org


  44. by oldedude on August 25, 2023 6:37 am
    So someone else saying it's a "ploy" that actually has nothing to do with Christianity other than it populist. Got it.

    Completely disagree.


  45. by islander on August 25, 2023 6:44 am

    No...You don't get it.


  46. by Ponderer on August 25, 2023 6:45 am

    “Isle- This is pretty common for you. People ask you for your definition of something, and you always give someone else's definition.” -olde dude


    Isle, alls ya gotta do is ask them to tell you what their definition of "woke" is and it shuts 'em up perty dern quick.


  47. by oldedude on August 25, 2023 7:03 am
    Woke- a culture of a mix of CRT and Gender Identity Theory. This theory was started in colleges, but is now being used in elementary schools. It precludes any resistance by parents, and encourages total control of the children by the state.

    Critical Race Theory- A theory of divisive concepts that stereotype race and gender for the purpose of "equity," not "equality." This is built on race and/or sex scapegoating.”

    Gender Identity Theory asserts that the body can be amended to match self-perception. The ideology has demanded that schools have the ability to lie, mislead, or not tell parents how their children are doing in the school environment.


  48. by Ponderer on August 25, 2023 7:16 am

    As usual, olde dude, you are wrong. But thanks for trying anyway. Valiant effort.

    "Before 2014, the call to “stay woke” was, for many people, unheard of. The idea behind it was common within Black communities at that point — the notion that staying “woke” and alert to the deceptions of other people was a basic survival tactic. But in 2014, following the police killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, “stay woke” suddenly became the cautionary watchword of Black Lives Matter activists on the streets, used in a chilling and specific context: keeping watch for police brutality and unjust police tactics.

    In the six years since Brown’s death, “woke” has evolved into a single-word summation of leftist political ideology, centered on social justice politics and critical race theory. This framing of “woke” is bipartisan: It’s used as a shorthand for political progressiveness by the left, and as a denigration of leftist culture by the right."



    So it was a good thing to be woke before the right took the word and bent and mangled it into a word that they could use as a derogatory insult. Take a word of empowerment for a minority and turn it into a weapon to use against them.

    Even now, olde dude here believes that he can use whatever made up definition he wants to for it. For him and his fellow Partners in Bigotry, it means whatever they want it to mean.

    Classic conservative tactic that we Liberals are all too familiar with I'm afraid.



    vox.com


  49. by Ponderer on August 25, 2023 7:20 am

    From the same link...

    "On the left, to be “woke” means to identify as a staunch social justice advocate who’s abreast of contemporary political concerns — or to be perceived that way, whether or not you ever claimed to be “woke” yourself. At times, the defensiveness surrounding wokeness invites ironic blowback. Consider the 2020 Hulu comedy series Woke, which attempted to deconstruct the identity politics behind ideas like “wokeness,” only to garner criticism for having an outdated and too-centrist political viewpoint — that is, for not being woke enough.

    On the right, “woke” — like its cousin “canceled” — bespeaks “political correctness” gone awry, and the term itself is usually used sarcastically. At the Republican National Convention in August, right-wing Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) scolded “woketopians,” grouping them together with socialists and Biden supporters, as though the definition of a “woketopian” was self-evident. "





  50. by oldedude on August 25, 2023 7:22 am
    As usual, olde dude, you are wrong. But thanks for trying anyway. Valiant effort.

    You asked for MY definition. Not a regurgitated view of someone else's words. That was it. And how it affects my life.


  51. by islander on August 25, 2023 7:27 am

    Pondy, I hate to encourage od by asking him to explain anything. Although responding to any of his posts only encourages him to post discombobulated and incomprehensible posts like his post # 34. Unfortunately I have to admit that I am guilty of responding to some of his posts (feeding the trolls) even though I know better. I am trying to exercise a little more self control in that regard...But as I'm sure you know, it can be difficult at times.


  52. by oldedude on August 25, 2023 7:31 am
    isle, I'm sorry if your mind couldn't comprehend a list. That's all it was. Most simpletons would understand it pretty well. And yet, here you are.


  53. by islander on August 25, 2023 7:54 am

    I think, Pondy, that od wants us to make up something and claim it as our definition instead of giving him what we think is the best definition and the definition that we agree with. He wants us to give a different definition than the one that represents precisely what we think.

    I’m really not at all sure what his problem is.


  54. by HatetheSwamp on August 25, 2023 8:09 am

    On the right, “woke” — like its cousin “canceled” — bespeaks “political correctness” gone awry, and the term itself is usually used sarcastically.

    That's pretty close, except for the word "sarcastically." And, that's not far off. There's an element of humor in the right's use of the word, no doubt. Something most woke people demonstrate themselves incapable of. Baha.

    Usually, there's more satire than sarcasm with right-wingers.

    But, po. isle. pb's still asking who? You're still not answering.


  55. by Ponderer on August 25, 2023 9:12 am

    "You asked for MY definition." -olde dude

    Right. And you gave it to me. Wonderful. It's just that, other than a passing mention of CRT, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the actual meaning of the word.

    As I have pointed out numerous times, conservatives love to give their own meanings to words, regardless of anything the dictionary has to say about it.

    It's okay though, olde dude. I forgive you.


    "That was it. And how it affects my life." -olde dude

    Well as you have shown that you are no stranger to letting your bigoted hallucinations govern your life, your definition is completely understandable.


    "Usually, there's more satire than sarcasm with right-wingers." -Hate

    No, that's what you may think, but it is not so. Satire implies humor. You may think that you are being humorous when you use the word to insult people, it's never funny. Sarcasm much more closely resembles what you assholes do whenever you are using the word. Hateful, insulting sarcasm.

    "But, po. isle. pb's still asking who? You're still not answering." -Hate

    I did answer you. Way back in post #6. If you are capable of counting, perhaps you'll be able to figure out how to find that post. There were a few people who are Christian Nationalists mentioned in that response. I'll let you try to figure out how to find them in Post #6 on your own (If you go back to the very beginning, you can count from the first post to the sixth one. Each post is in numerical order and they are even numbered for your convenience, so you need only count as far as six. I hope that doesn't tax your brain too much or anything figuring it all out.

    So is it your contention that if we can't name any Christian Nationalists, then you can go on believing that Christian Nationalism doesn't exist?

    And you call me subjective.




  56. by HatetheSwamp on August 25, 2023 9:35 am

    No, that's what you may think, but it is not so. Satire implies humor. You may think that you are being humorous when you use the word to insult people, it's never funny.

    Niiiiiice, po.

    Telling me, a person on the political right, what I mean when I use a word.
    This is the very definition of sanctimony.

    Thanks, for this'ne, po. It will rank as one of my fave of all time on SS.

    Again, baha baha keehee baha...thanks!!!!!

    Way back in post #6. If you are capable of counting, perhaps you'll be able to figure out how to find that post. There were a few people who are Christian Nationalists mentioned in that response. I'll let you try to figure out how to find them in Post #6 on your own...

    They're Nationalists, for sure, po. No doubt. Based on what are you suggesting that they are CHRISTIAN Nationalists? I'll allow you to demonstrate that you know more about Christianity than do I.

    Giveitago, po.


  57. by islander on August 25, 2023 11:22 am

    Hate wrote:"They're Nationalists, for sure, po. No doubt. Based on what are you suggesting that they are CHRISTIAN Nationalists? I'll allow you to demonstrate that you know more about Christianity than do I."

    Are you now claiming the ability to look into a person's heart and judge whether or not a person is Christian?


  58. by oldedude on August 25, 2023 3:50 pm
    That's what we've been asking you.


  59. by HatetheSwamp on August 26, 2023 4:48 am

    Bang on, OD.

    isle,

    I know po's list of evil people definitely claim to be patriots. They may claim to be Christians and they may want this to be a Christian Nation...but I know nuthin about it. If you do, that's precisely, as OD posts, what I've been BEGGING you to do. So, put up...pleeeeease!

    I'm from Pennsylvania. I watched Mastriano ads hundreds of times. "Christian Nationalism" never came up...to my knowledge. I have no reason to believe po...or you.


  60. by islander on August 26, 2023 5:00 am

    od wrote: "That's what we've been asking you"

    No you haven't.


  61. by islander on August 26, 2023 5:14 am

    Hate wrote: ”I know po's list of evil people definitely claim to be patriots. They may claim to be Christians and they may want this to be a Christian Nation...but I know nuthin about it. If you do, that's precisely, as OD posts, what I've been BEGGING you to do. So, put up...pleeeeease! ”

    As I said earlier, your ignorance is willful ignorance.

    You asked for the names of three Christian Nationalists...We gave you more than three self proclaimed Christian Nationalists.

    You then implied that they weren’t real Christians and that you could make that judgment because you know a lot about Christianity.



  62. by HatetheSwamp on August 26, 2023 5:45 am

    isle,

    Show me, in their own words proclaiming themselves:

    1. Christians
    2. Christian Nationalists

    I know what you proclaim them. But, that don't count.


  63. by islander on August 26, 2023 5:56 am

    Amanda Tyler CNN "Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene explicitly labeled herself a Christian nationalist on Saturday. This shocking statement by a sitting member of Congress should serve as a wake-up call to everyone, and particularly, I believe, to Christians.


    “We need to be the party of nationalism and I’m a Christian, and I say it proudly, we should be Christian nationalists,” Greene said in an interview while attending the Turning Point USA Student Action Summit in Florida on Saturday. Her self-avowal of Christian nationalism follows her claim last month that Christian nationalism is “nothing to be afraid of,” and that the “movement” will solve school shootings and “sexual immorality” in America."



  64. by HatetheSwamp on August 26, 2023 6:56 am

    isle,

    Trusting CNN to report a GOP honestly, which I don't really...

    ...but, for you, I will, this once.

    Are you sure that MTG defines Christian Nationalism in the radical way you do?

    Anyway,...

    Out of 80,000,000+ evangelicals, you've come up with one Christian Nationalist...sorta.

    We're still waiting for the rest of the at least 3.


  65. by Ponderer on August 26, 2023 7:06 am

    I was going to post some videos of MTG going on about Christian Nationalism. But there are just too many to choose from.

    So Bill, please avail yourself of this link to the results of a Yahoo search for such videos so that you can choose the ones that you think you can trust your eyes to look at and aren't fake or made up...

    video.search.yahoo.com


  66. by HatetheSwamp on August 26, 2023 7:32 am

    Great, po. I watched the first video. I disagree with MTG about almost everything but tell me what's objectionable about her definition of Christian Nationalism.

    She believes in religious freedom for everyone. She understands that the motto of the United States is, "In God we trust," not, "In Jesus we trust."

    So, splain. What's evil there? What's un-American?

    C'mon man. Gimme a break! As far as I can tell, if there's anything in that video you disagree with, you are the one who is un-American.

    So, splain.


  67. by islander on August 26, 2023 7:45 am
    Hate wrote: ”Are you sure that MTG defines Christian Nationalism in the radical way you do?”

    Yes, I’m sure...and here once again is my, what you call “radical View”...

    “The Pew article alluded to this and I agree since I’m one of the Americans that can plainly see that “Christian nationalism is essentially a tool strategically used by leaders to help appeal to American citizens or to help certain Americans justify their political views. In their telling, it involves using familiar beliefs, concepts and phrases from Christianity as a cover-up for what are really sociopolitical attitudes. One respondent explains that Christian nationalism is “a political movement that uses Christian values as camouflage” and another calls it “totally wrapping up political behavior in religious clothes.” Christian nationalism is the blending or mixing up of faith and politics so that they are indistinguishable.

    If you need more names before you’ll admit that “Christian Nationalism” exists in our country here are a few more. Congresswomen Lauren Boebert and Mary Miller have also expressed support for Christian nationalism.Andrew Torba says Christian Nationalism is necessary in order to build a grass-roots Christian nationalist political movement to help "take back" government power for "the glory of God"; he has argued that "unapologetic Christian Nationalism is what will save the United States of America".


  68. by HatetheSwamp on August 26, 2023 7:59 am

    You're wrong about MTG. See #67

    isle. No one has ever denied that there's a Christian Nationalist or two in America.

    Your bigotry and prejudice has been exposed. Just own up to that and we'll all be fine.


    And, I'd be blessed if you could support the charge in #1 that Doug Mastriano "has called our country’s separation of church and state a myth."

    C'mon man!


  69. by Ponderer on August 26, 2023 8:34 am

    "No one has ever denied that there's a Christian Nationalist or two in America." -Hate

    So then can we quote you as believing that there are not many more than a couple or so?

    Because there is sureasshit a hell of a lot more than that, Bill. Do you have any idea how many millions of Americans these statistics at the link represent?
    prri.org


  70. by HatetheSwamp on August 26, 2023 8:42 am

    You absolutely can quote as saying that, between you two, you've identified only one...

    One who doesn't fit isle's definition but who believes every American has freedom of religion and opposes the idea that the national motto should be, "In Jesus we trust."

    This started months ago when isle was in high dudgeon and equated white American evangelicalism with white Christian Nationalism.

    He's wrong.


  71. by islander on August 26, 2023 8:54 am

    Hate wrote: This started months ago when isle was in high dudgeon and equated white American evangelicalism with white Christian Nationalism.

    That's a lie. Never have I equated white American evangelicalism with white Christian Nationalism.


  72. by Donna on August 26, 2023 10:27 am

    Why is Hts conflating White American evangelicalism with White Christian Nationalism? To my knowledge, neither I nor Ponderer, islander, Curt nor Indy have done that.


  73. by HatetheSwamp on August 26, 2023 10:37 am

    Months ago, in high dudgeon, isle absolutely conflated white American evangelicalism and white Christian Nationalism...in a moment of passion, no doubt.

    He's been tap dancing since...

    View Video


  74. by Donna on August 26, 2023 10:38 am

    Can you identify the topic thread?


  75. by HatetheSwamp on August 26, 2023 10:51 am

    Probably not. I can review my old threads through "How to Post Here." But, this was one of isle's threads. He linked to a old CBS news feature about the alleged insane evangelical, white Christian Nationalist response to Covid.


  76. by islander on August 26, 2023 11:31 am

    Donna, Hate will never produce one iota of evidence that I have ever thought or equated all white American evangelicals with white Christian Nationalism.

    

He can’t and won’t produce anything because it is simply another one of his shameless lies. That lie is Hate’s “go to” when he is losing an argument over Christian Nationalism and tries to hide that fact that “Yes ! a certain percentage of Evangelicals actively call themselves or support the ideals of Christian Nationalism”.

    Hate is simply using the Big Lie principle in the hope that if he keeps repeating the same lie enough times some people will begin to believe it's actually true.

    If he were to ask me if there are any white American Evangelicals who are also Christian Nationalists I’d say of course there are even as there are Evangelicals who condemn it...and they are the majority.



    That is not at all the same thing as saying all Evangelicals are Christian Nationalists.


  77. by Donna on August 26, 2023 1:29 pm

    I'm siding with islander because Hts is infamous for distorting what others said. I've been on the receiving end of that many times. I think Hts consciously and/or perhaps even unconsciously distorts what others say as a sort of "fix" to satisfy his addiction to arguing.




  78. by islander on August 26, 2023 2:15 pm

    onna ~ I think you might be onto something with regard to Hate’s addiction to arguing. I think we all enjoy debating to a certain extent or we wouldn’t be here. The thing is most of us don’t have to resort to deception and dishonesty in our arguments. I can’t understand why Hate cannot debate or argue honestly, or maybe he really does believe literally that subjectivity is truth to the point that his own self deceptions really do sound like the truth to him?

    

Here is a link from back around the end of last year and the beginning of this year that Hate has been claiming that I said all evangelicals are Christian Nationalists.

    I think it’s quite clear that I was saying the same thing then that I am now.

    selectsmart.com


  79. by islander on August 26, 2023 2:18 pm

    Whoops! The "D" from your name didn't appear in the last post but I'm sure you knew that I was addressing you ! LoL !!


  80. by oldedude on August 26, 2023 3:07 pm
    isle- THAT'S why we needed the definition. You "claim" there are a couple/ few million "Christian Nationalists?" That depends on your definition of the term.

    Yes, I'm going back to that, but you can see the dilemma we're in. How do we understand the numbers are what you claim? I asked donna the same question. Am I a Christian Nationalist? I will stand up for the US. I did it for forty years, and put my life on the line many, many times to save others. So how 'bout it?

    FYSA- If I were a troll, I would have already called you names (that you're really a SNAG about).


  81. by Donna on August 26, 2023 3:19 pm

    islander: LOL! You are forgiven. Btw, if I were to inadvertently drop the first letter of your moniker, it would become "slander". I'll make sure not to do that!

    I read that conversation. I've found that the best way to handle Hts is to ignore him altogether.

    "How do we understand the numbers are what you claim? I asked donna the same question. Am I a Christian Nationalist?" - olde dude

    You did? I don't remember that. Sure you're not confusing me with someone else?






  82. by oldedude on August 26, 2023 3:24 pm
    Sorry, it was po.


  83. by HatetheSwamp on August 27, 2023 3:51 am


    That lie is Hate’s “go to” when he is losing an argument over Christian Nationalism and tries to hide that fact that “Yes a certain percentage of Evangelicals actively call themselves or support the ideals of Christian Nationalism”.

    What a, as po'd say, prevaricator. Of course there is a certain percentage of Evangelicals actively call themselves or support the ideals of Christian Nationalism”.

    pb's been saying that all along. That's what pb said to isle when isle posted that ridiculous CBS News video on "Evangelicals" and Covid. And, isle refused to agree with ol pb's take.

    FYI, gang. The video featured an evangelist type in a tent meeting atmosphere in front of a rabid crowd and, as a counterpoint Dr Somebody, the "pastor" of a respected and respectable mainline Protestant denomination church.

    The point was that rational Christians are sane but "Evangelicals," like the tent meetin guy, are crazed. I tried to help isle understand that the tent meetin guy ain't typical of American Evangelicals. I probably did my go-to and fell back on Franklin Graham and 2008 Obama Inauguration Invocation pray-er, Rick Warren. But, isle'd have none of it.

    He started his Mr Bojangles routine.


    Depending on how you define Evangelical, absolutely. Some Evangelicals want America to be a Christian Nation. Depending on how you define Christian Nation...

    ...even then, you end up with someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who believes everyone has freedom of religion and who understands that our national motto is "In God we Trust" not "In Jesus we Trust." Gang, that's not isle's definition of White Christian Nationalism.

    The real world truth is that nearly all Evangelicals are in the Graham and Warren mold. The truth is that Franklin Graham's group was among the first to assist the people of Maui:

    Hawaii wildfire 'added' to family's tragedy and turmoil: Samaritan's Purse reveals devastation in Maui

    That's American Evangelical White Christian Nationalism...

    ...in the real world.
    foxnews.com


  84. by islander on August 27, 2023 5:01 am

    Christian Nationalism can be defined by its claimed ideology and goals and/or how it is actually used as a political tool.
I’ve already given both but here they are again:

    1)“Christian nationalism is essentially a tool strategically used by leaders to help appeal to American citizens or to help certain Americans justify their political views. How they do it involves using familiar beliefs, concepts and phrases from Christianity as a cover-up for what are really sociopolitical attitudes As the article says, "One respondent explains that Christian nationalism is “a political movement that uses Christian values as camouflage” and another calls it “totally wrapping up political behavior in religious clothes.” Christian nationalism is the blending or mixing up of faith and politics so that they are indistinguishable

    2) Bradley Onishi "makes the distinction between white evangelicalism and white Christian nationalism. Evangelicalism teaches that “the Bible is the errorless Word of God,” which “should be read and followed as literally as possible.

    White Christian nationalism goes further, embracing the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation and, as such, is superior to all other nations, and one chosen by God to play a central role in world history. Other foundational components of Christian nationalism are nostalgia for past glory –  when white men were most highly privileged –  and an apocalyptic view of the nation’s future."

    For a more in depth look at evangelicalism itself click the second link from the Pew Research Center.
    ~ isle

    pewresearch.org


  85. by HatetheSwamp on August 27, 2023 6:00 am

    1)“Christian nationalism is essentially a tool strategically used by leaders to help appeal to American citizens or to help certain Americans justify their political views. How they do it involves using familiar beliefs, concepts and phrases from Christianity as a cover-up for what are really sociopolitical attitudes As the article says, "One respondent explains that Christian nationalism is “a political movement that uses Christian values as camouflage” and another calls it “totally wrapping up political behavior in religious clothes.” Christian nationalism is the blending or mixing up of faith and politics so that they are indistinguishable”

    Do you understand, isle, that this is not a definition of Christian Nationalism. It's a highly polemical condemnation of it. It's cynical to the hilt. The "camouflage" comment smacks of conspiracy theory. Can you see that?

    It's clearly not scholarly. It's not objective. You do understand that, I hope.

    Bradley Onishi "makes the distinction between white evangelicalism and white Christian nationalism. Evangelicalism teaches that “the Bible is the errorless Word of God,” which “should be read and followed as literally as possible.

    “White Christian nationalism goes further, embracing the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation...


    So, according to this OPINION, Christian Nationalists are a subset of Evangelicals. How large a subset...in YOUR opinion.

    You do understand that? Right?


  86. by Ponderer on August 27, 2023 7:09 am

    "Do you understand, isle, that this is not a definition of Christian Nationalism." -Hate

    It may not be the definition of Christian Nationalism, Bill. But it totally nails it as far as how Christian Nationalism is used in practice.


  87. by HatetheSwamp on August 27, 2023 8:05 am

    po,

    The most vivid example of Christian Nationalism you've come up with so far is someone who believes that everyone has religious freedom and who wouldn't tolerate "In Jesus we Trust" as our national motto.

    We're still waiting...0


  88. by Ponderer on August 27, 2023 8:30 am

    Well ya know, Bill, I have already given you definitions and examples of Christian Nationalists and it's not my fault that you don't like them. So I suppose we are at the inevitable point in the conversation where I am left with no choice but to tell you to gofuck yourself.


  89. by oldedude on August 27, 2023 8:31 am
    isle #84- 1)“Christian nationalism is essentially a tool strategically used by leaders to help appeal to American citizens or to help certain Americans justify their political views. How they do it involves using familiar beliefs, concepts and phrases from Christianity as a cover-up for what are really sociopolitical attitudes As the article says, "One respondent explains that Christian nationalism is “a political movement that uses Christian values as camouflage” and another calls it “totally wrapping up political behavior in religious clothes.” Christian nationalism is the blending or mixing up of faith and politics so that they are indistinguishable”
    Adamantly disagree on everything from 1)...indistinguishable.

    2) Bradley Onishi "makes the distinction between white evangelicalism and white Christian nationalism. Evangelicalism teaches that “the Bible is the errorless Word of God,” which “should be read and followed as literally as possible.
    I believe that doesn't have "race" in the definition. And I'm just going to "assume" you're race baiting us. As usual, you completely discount the little brown and black people that you don't care about.
    That said if you take out the racist comment, I can live with that. And it's the FIRST time you've actually given a concise definition. Even though it's racist.

    “White Christian nationalism goes further, embracing the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation and, as such, is superior to all other nations, and one chosen by God to play a central role in world history. Other foundational components of Christian nationalism are nostalgia for past glory – when white men were most highly privileged – and an apocalyptic view of the nation’s future."
    Again, you're a racist. I don't see a difference in the races if they believe in your theory (also according to PEW). The apocalyptic view of the world's (not only the nation's) future. That is also in basic Evangelicalism as a pillar.

    According to the old and new Testiment, the world is continuing as it was foretold. This is the world we have chosen. The world of Sodom and Babel. Missing right now is a one-world government, massive starvation, chaos, and death. I think you're making a whole lot over a tiny part of what is happening.



  90. by islander on August 27, 2023 9:26 am

    Hate claimed : ”Do you understand, isle, that this is not a definition of Christian Nationalism.”

    Yes it is. In post # 84 I defined the first part as a “tool”. I described how it’s used, and then in the second part I described its ideology.

    As far as I know, Hate has neither given us his definition of Christian Nationalism nor has he provided us with a link or anything else justifying his claim that the number of Christian Nationalists in this country is only in the hundreds.

    And od there is nothing racist about talking about White Christian Nationalists...That’s the specific group we have been talking about. There are of course black or other Christian Nationalists as well, but their ideology is slightly different and the majority of Christian Nationalists like it or not are white.







  91. by oldedude on August 27, 2023 9:47 am
    I don't think so. And it showed in your PEW study.
    But hey, I know it's not cool to call anyone a racist that isn't white, so do your thing. Even though it's racist.


  92. by HatetheSwamp on August 27, 2023 11:58 am

    Hate has neither given us his definition of Christian Nationalism nor has he provided us with a link or anything else justifying his claim that the number of Christian Nationalists in this country is only in the hundreds.

    Mr Bojangles,

    pb hasn't been asked to.

    Christian Nationalism is your hobgoblin, isle, not mine...

    But, I will say that MTG is typical of people who identify as Christian Nationalists. They believe that everyone in America possesses freedom of religion.

    Your old soft shoe routine is gettin a little old.

    You're SS's number one hate monger. And, you're proving it again.


  93. by oldedude on August 27, 2023 12:36 pm
    Question: What about the Proud Boys?


  94. by oldedude on August 27, 2023 12:49 pm
    And I'm having trouble with you switching from "Christian Nationalists" in one sentence and "White Christian Nationalists" in the next. Talk about one. Or the other. Your lead post mentioned NOTHING about "white Christian Nationalism" You (both) continue to argue "Christian Nationalism" and then your answers change to "white Christian Nationalists" when you're trying to weasel out of something (more isle here. po's kept pretty much tracked, but it has to interspersed with isle's "white Christian Nationalists." So there's confusion there. I really thought you might be able to keep your poop in one pile on this one isle, but no. notsomuch.


  95. by islander on August 27, 2023 1:32 pm

    od wrote: ”And I'm having trouble with you switching from "Christian Nationalists" in one sentence and "White Christian Nationalists" in the next.”

    Give an example, that is...quote me and I’ll can probably help you with your problem.

    When we are talking about White Christian Nationalists, as we have been here, I have no problem using either one. Aside from the fact that most Christian Nationalists are white, White Christian Nationalists’s ideology is different from black’s. Especially with regard to their beliefs about black’s place in our history and society. Ever heard of replacement theory for example?


  96. by HatetheSwamp on August 27, 2023 1:33 pm

    OD,

    The Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are examples of American White Supremacist groups. They aren't Christian specifically, far as I know, and there's nuthin at all Evangelical about them.

    It seems to me that progressives who are bigoted and phobic about people who hold historic, orthodox Christian beliefs want to conflate those Christians and white supremecist beliefs. I've hung out with Evangelicals for more than 50 years and I don't personally know any who fit po and isle's notion of White Christian Nationalism...

    ...not a single one.


  97. by islander on August 27, 2023 1:35 pm

    Hate said no one ever asked him to define Christian Nationalism.

    Well I’m asking now, Hate. How do you define Christian Nationalism? And I also want you to justify how you can claim that the number of Christian Nationalists in our country is only in the hundreds.


  98. by HatetheSwamp on August 27, 2023 2:02 pm

    Fair enuff, isle.

    IMO, the notion that There is anything like organized Christian Nationalism in the US is a myth that is a function of woke, theophobic paranoia. Especially, involving evangelicals.

    I must say that I was impressed by MTG in that video po found. Trust me, and as I've noted many times, I'm not a Marjorie Taylor Greene fan.

    Still, she was abundantly clear that she is a Christian and that she's a nationalist [as opposed to a globalist, that's what I took from the context]. She thinks all Americans have the right to the freedom of religion. And, she rejects the notion that our national motto could be "In Jesus we Trust."

    She's like many in the evangelical world who believe that the US would be a better place if historic Christian values such as those that were the norm in Europe when there was a blending of Church and State but that the Religion Clauses of the First Amendment are a very good thing.

    I, personally, know absolutely no one who wants the US to codify Christianity. No one. None...

    ...at all...

    Not even a little bit.


  99. by islander on August 27, 2023 2:56 pm
    My question to you, Hate, was: "Well I’m asking now, Hate. How do you define Christian Nationalism? And I also want you to justify how you can claim that the number of Christian Nationalists in our country is only in the hundreds."

    What a foolish and contradictory answer You gave... You don’t believe there is such a thing as Christian Nationalism? How do you explain your belief that there are hundreds of Christian Nationalists in our country? I guess that’s why you can’t justify that belief that there are like I asked you.

    You can’t define Christian Nationalism because you don’t know what it is. I'm beginning to think that you don't even know what any this is about.

    Christian Nationalism is NOT an organized group that calls themselves Christian Nationalists. A Christian Nationalist CAN belong (or not belong) to an organized religious organization such as the Southern Baptists, and all this is equally true of Evangelicals...but that doesn’t mean that Evangelicals don't exist.



  100. by HatetheSwamp on August 27, 2023 3:14 pm

    How do you explain your belief that there are hundreds of Christian Nationalists in our country?

    If I posted that there're are hundreds of Christian Nationalists in the US, I misposted. Sorry about that, Chief. I don't believe that.

    You can’t define Christian Nationalism because you don’t know what it is. I'm beginning to think that you don't even know what any this is about.

    Christian Nationalist/Christian Nationalism is not my language. They're concepts foreign to my thinking. However, if you define what you mean by them, I'll be more than happy to estimate how many Americans match your description.

    As I noted, MTG accepted that designation but only to acknowledge that she's a Christian and that she's a nationalist. But, in the way you're probably defining being a Christian Nationalist, I'm not sure she is one.

    So? Define our terms. I'll go with your definition.


  101. by oldedude on August 27, 2023 5:26 pm
    The Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are examples of American White Supremacist groups.

    Below is a picture of the Proud Boy National Leader.


  102. by islander on August 28, 2023 5:53 am

    Hate wrote:"isle. No one has ever denied that there's a Christian Nationalist or two in America."

    Did you misspeak that time too? Now you are telling us that there are no Christian Nationalists in our country.

    After telling us that there are hundreds of Christian Nationalists in our country you are now saying there are none and that you just misremembered.

    That’s the trouble with trying to deceive people...You need to have a very good memory because one lie leads to another and just like now, you end up in a tangled web of your own making.

    After arguing about this subject here on SS for months, you are now telling us that you don’t even know what it is “Christian Nationalist/Christian Nationalism is not my language. They're concepts foreign to my thinking.”

    I think it's time for me to stop feeding the trolls...


  103. by HatetheSwamp on August 28, 2023 6:34 am

    isle,

    Please link to my assertion that there are "hundreds of Christian Nationalists" in America. As I wrote, if I posted that, I misposted. That's not what I believe.

    My criticism of what you've written about White Christian Nationalism is the way you connect White Christian Nationalism to White American Evangelicalism...

    ...and, as far as your own definition, you seem to "float like a butterfly" yet, not."sting like a bee."

    As I noted. This is your thing. Not mine. I'm happy to dialog on your terms. Just make your terms clear.

    After arguing about this subject here on SS for months, you are now telling us that you don’t even know what it is “Christian Nationalist/Christian Nationalism is not my language. They're concepts foreign to my thinking.”

    I still don't know what "Christian Nationalist/ Christian Nationalism" is to you. I don't know what an "Evangelical" is to you, either.

    I know that the CBS News hate-video was defamatory hogwash but, still, I will discuss... if you want to.


  104. by oldedude on August 28, 2023 6:58 am
    I think it's worthy that if you made a mistake, that you're out there with a mea culpa. This is a blog. "things" happen. If you doubled down on it, that's different, but still worth an apology if you didn't mean it. I'm looking at the response. Which I don't think is worthy of a reply. I've done plenty of those when Donna and I are talking. She's very gracious about it, which makes our communication much more open. You can tell who the class act is.


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