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GOP & Toomey will get past their tantrum. Burn pit bill will pass.

By Curt_Anderson
July 31, 2022 12:56 pm
Category: Politics

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The headline is my prediction, not breaking news.

You can read the transcript or watch the video below to hear Sen. Toomey's reasoning for not voting for the PACT bill. If there is any logical and consistent argument in there, I didn't hear it.

Toomey complained that the Democrats included "something completely unrelated" into the bill without ever saying what that was. His second complaint was the Democrats didn't let Toomey include his amendment and the amendments of his Republicans colleagues.

Toomey also accused the Democrats of wanting with this "veterans bill the opportunity to go on an unrelated $400 billion spending". Other than spending those billions on veterans' healthcare, Toomey never says what has him so agitated.

If anybody heard something that convinces them that the Republicans had good reason not to vote for the bill, I'd like know what it was.


Cited and related links:

  1. transcripts.cnn.com



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Comments on "GOP & Toomey will get past their tantrum. Burn pit bill will pass.":

  1. by oldedude on July 31, 2022 3:38 pm
    When does the money come in?
    What are the prerequisites for the rating?
    What are the symptoms they're looking at? This is key. generally, the VA leaves out certain problems that are catastrophic to the veteran so they don't have to pay.

    In 2019, there was a 10,000 veteran march regarding this. The one that coordinated this was a woman with ovarian, lymphoma, liver, and pancreatic cancers. she died just after the march. She made it, Rangered the fuk up and marched for her cause. She got the mission done. And died. Not only were there full military honors, but veterans from all 50 states were at her funeral to represent the brotherhood she was a part of. 'til Va'halla. She's a hero among us (present and future tense).

    Thousands of veterans die before they can get rated. This is done so the social medicine of the VA can pay for their bills. Many of those are PTS/ TBI. The USVA is the only medical grouping that demands that you are knocked out to have tbi. The NFL, NHL, NBA, and MLB all recognize the issue of numerous jarrings to the brain that bring about TBI. The VA does not. My oldest was blown up in a VBID in al Qa'im (القائم), Iraq. He was thrown a height of six feet in the air, embedded in the back wall of the house, but did not pass out. He was rear guard. The only person guarding his team from being killed. When asked why he was sure he didn't pass out, he said, "because people were trusting me to protect them." He has no TBI according to the VA. He shows all the symptoms. He was refused service connect injury. He also bled through his ears and nose after the shock of an IED that went off. No rating (well, 0%, which means he "registered.") Obviously, he's just a tad bitter. And he shoots at 1,500 metres. Again, welcome to socialized medicine.



  2. by oldedude on July 31, 2022 7:25 pm
    I think you should have listened to your own video. That's the worse part. It is actually proving our points, and destroys yours. The dims lied. Over and over again.


  3. by Donna on July 31, 2022 8:24 pm
    The entire US healthcare "system" is abominable. The fact is that healthcare is extremely expensive. Buying an insurance policy that covers all costs is out of reach for most Americans.

    Like it or not, the only way to cover everyone's healthcare expenses is to socialize it. The rest of the free world (and even the non-free world) came to that conclusion decades ago. In the US, millions of people have suffered and died because they couldn't afford healthcare. On top of that, we spend trillions of dollars on war, which creates hundreds of thousands of additional casualties that necessitate the need for even more healthcare.



  4. by Curt_Anderson on July 31, 2022 10:13 pm
    Donna and OD,
    From what I know and understand about the bill, it changes from the patient needing to prove that the burn pits caused one of two dozen illnesses to doctors presuming burn pits caused the disease(s). The legislation would liberalize eligibility benefits and compensation.

    Even in socialized medicine not every illness gets medical attention and not immediate attention. Of course compensation is not a socialized medicine issue.



  5. by oldedude on August 1, 2022 2:18 am
    You have to prove you were on the specific base (with paperwork, orders, etc) to start. If not, you're fukked.

    If you have 40 years of medical charts, they will not look through them to look. My health records are two full books. The VA has this information. I still have to provide them with that information because they won't look it up.

    Then you have to prove that it happened on duty.

    Thank God that "immunization" I received that is now killing me was actually put in my record. Otherwise they wouldn't cover it or any of the symptoms. And it damn sure wouldn't be in my rating.


  6. by oldedude on August 1, 2022 2:35 am
    Donna- When was the last time you waited 5-7 years for any healthcare? I've asked you this several times and you keep avoiding the question and just say this is a "good system" and they the entire US system is the same. It's not.


    If I go to a VA Emergency Room, they are legally "required" to treat me. I get charged 100% of charges that are 50% higher than civilian hospitals. There is no "payment schedule" or anything else.


    "CNN — More than 1,000 veterans may have died in the last decade because of malpractice or lack of care from Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers, a new report issued by the office of Sen. Tom Coburn finds.

    The report aggregates government investigations and media reports to trace a history of fraudulent scheduling practices, budget mismanagement, insufficient oversight and lack of accountability that have led to the current controversy plaguing the VA.

    The VA has admitted that 23 patients have died because of delayed care in recent years, but the report, titled “Friendly Fire: Death, Delay, and Dismay at the VA,” shows many more patient deaths have been linked to systemic issues affecting VA hospitals and clinics throughout the U.S."


    "A new report illustrates a troubling trend of veterans committing suicide on VA hospital campuses after receiving inadequate care from individual facilities.

    Veterans are committing suicide in VA parking lots: report
    Nineteen suicides have occurred on VA campuses from October 2017 to November 2018 ― seven of them in parking lots, according to data the Washington Post obtained from the Department of Veterans Affairs. Some are worried that this is a gruesome form of protest by veterans to highlight how little help they were given in their time of need by the VA system."

    cnn.com
    militarytimes.com


  7. by oldedude on August 1, 2022 2:58 am
    "Like it or not, the only way to cover everyone's healthcare expenses is to socialize it. The rest of the free world (and even the non-free world) came to that conclusion decades ago. In the US, millions of people have suffered and died because they couldn't afford healthcare. On top of that, we spend trillions of dollars on war, which creates hundreds of thousands of additional casualties that necessitate the need for even more healthcare."

    I think you've missed the part about the "mandatory immunization" that is now killing me. I know you don't give a sht, but it has direct impact on those refusing the COVID "immunizations."

    That is a huge part of the LWO and welfare countries (the one's you mentioned). Again, they're not "socialized" countries, they're "welfare" countries. And what you want is for everyone to drop their decent coverage for crappy coverage. I am living your LWO's dream medical system in the US. And I'm telling you that it is horrible and since it's "the government" other agencies have your information.

    Once the government has the patients, it's easy to access many other things. Bank accounts, family members, employers, etc. What we see a lot of are Canadians getting health care down here. Once you get out of routine care, the system sucks. And they will tell you that.


  8. by HatetheSwamp on August 1, 2022 4:15 am

    Okay. I just watched the video.

    Curt,

    Are you a moron or are you entering moderate stage dementia?

    If you've ever watched the Senate on C-SPAN you know this is perfectly normal. If one side is responsible for this micro-brouhaha, it's the Dems.

    They are doing exactly what Toomey said, i.e., using veterans to make political hay.

    Toomey is not Ted Cruz or even Lindsey Graham!

    Toomey is one of the Senate GOPs who voted for the second impeachment! He's a level-headed Mitt Romney GOP Senator.

    You're barking up a wrong tree, Rover!


  9. by Curt_Anderson on August 1, 2022 9:27 am
    HtS,
    It's probably true that Democrats will beat Republicans over the head about their no vote. Dems will use soldiers and military families to make an emotional appeal. Both sides do that on various issues. Welcome to Politics 101.

    But none of that explains why Toomey and the GOP voted against the bill. I don't believe there is a good explanation other than pettiness.

    Therefore I predict that the Republicans will reconsider and vote for PACT. If not, the Republicans will need to make a better case for their vote besides the Democrats are mean to us.


  10. by Donna on August 1, 2022 10:26 am
    "When was the last time you waited 5-7 years for any healthcare? I've asked you this several times and you keep avoiding the question and just say this is a "good system" and they the entire US system is the same. It's not." - od

    I'm tired of being accused of "ignoring" posts. I don't remember that post. It could be that I didn't see it. I don't read every post here.

    "Even in socialized medicine not every illness gets medical attention and not immediate attention." - Curt

    Of course. That's called "triage". You treat the most urgent and serious cases first. It's common sense.

    A civilized healthcare system wouldn't allow anyone die needlessly. Not having enough money shouldn't be an impediment to saving your life or the life of a loved one.

    Statistics are kept on people who die because they didn't or couldn't get medical treatment for their illness. But something that's overlooked is people whose standards of living are reduced to poverty levels because of medical expenses. Sheri and I are going through that now. Even though she has a "silver" ACA plan that costs us $219/mo, we had to pay $375 out of pocket just to have shard of glass removed from her foot and about $500 for 1 hour of physical therapy for her back pain that's caused by a compressed disc. She's in agony daily because of it. Those expenses add up to a lot of money for us.

    The healthcare situation in the US is abysmal. Not nearly enough money is being allocated to it. That goes for the VA too. a 5-7 year wait is unacceptable and infuriating.

    You know who doesn't give a shit, od? People who aren't experiencing this personally. Actually I do care about your sitaution. I'm at a loss for what to do about it though. Do you give a shit about my and Sheri's situation?


  11. by HatetheSwamp on August 1, 2022 11:07 am

    Curt,

    Of course, the GOPs will vote for it, but I'm not sure they'll back down on their point.

    The Dems will probably have to allow the GOPs to get their amendments voted on.

    What's curious to me is that the GOPs have made Toomey the point man in this tussle. He's been my Senator since 2010. He's profoundly moderate. He voted for impeachment. And, he's retiring. The Dems are going to have a difficult time making an appealing strawman out of him.

    So far, there are not 40 GOPs willing to give the Dems what they want. And, I think they'll stand their ground.


  12. by oldedude on August 1, 2022 4:21 pm
    "Do you give a shit about my and Sheri's situation?"

    I don't know that much about it. I guess you're in AZ now. Don't know when that happened. Or why. or whatever. I don't know if or where you're working. I know her back has been an issue.

    So there's where I stand.

    I guess my "issue" is that goal was to explain this "system" the LWO uses as their flag ship. It absolutely the worst system in the US. Most veterans spend 5-7 years in your position. Having to prove their disability while not being able to hold jobs because of their disability. Most of the issues are like Sheri's. You can't really see it, so other people look at "you" and wonder why you're not doing this or that. All this through no fault of your own. Doing the job you were actually told to do.

    I ask that question every time this has been brought up. FYSA- indy never answered it either.


  13. by Donna on August 1, 2022 4:56 pm
    We're getting eaten alive by medical costs, which will probably get worse when I have dental work done that I've been putting off for many years. I'm having to work in my retirement, and I'll probably have to work until I die. If the US had a civilized healthcare system, that wouldn't be necessary.





  14. by oldedude on August 1, 2022 8:21 pm
    Most of the medical costs in the US come from litigation insurance for the doctor, hospitals, and the insurance companies per se. This is due to the lawsuits and fraud. In Panama, I was seen by a doctor, received a prescription, and was on my way for $35. WHY? no one carries insurance and the lawsuits are built more on the British law for civil suits. The doctors can actually practice. The downside is the doctors may or may not keep up with "best practices" in their field, etc. That said, if you want health care that's good.

    Even the Panamanians can afford healthcare.


  15. by oldedude on August 1, 2022 8:31 pm
    "Of course. That's called "triage". You treat the most urgent and serious cases first. It's common sense.

    A civilized healthcare system wouldn't allow anyone die needlessly. Not having enough money shouldn't be an impediment to saving your life or the life of a loved one. "

    You didn't look at the cites I had. ""CNN — More than 1,000 veterans may have died in the last decade because of malpractice or lack of care from Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers, a new report issued by the office of Sen. Tom Coburn finds.

    The report aggregates government investigations and media reports to trace a history of fraudulent scheduling practices, budget mismanagement, insufficient oversight and lack of accountability that have led to the current controversy plaguing the VA."
    and...
    "Veterans are committing suicide in VA parking lots: report" Because they are refused service, or not treated. This is part of the 5-7 year wait.


  16. by Curt_Anderson on August 1, 2022 9:01 pm
    OD,
    Are veterans precluded from having BOTH VA healthcare AND Medicare or Medicaid? I don't have long waits with Medicare to see a doctor.


  17. by Donna on August 1, 2022 11:46 pm
    Good question, Curt. I thought about that last night after olde dude, who is of Medicare age, posted on the bs he and his son have been going through with the VA.


  18. by HatetheSwamp on August 2, 2022 5:16 am

    My dad was a WWII vet. He wouldn't have touched the VA with a ten foot pole.

    Dad had Medicare Part C. He could afford good supplemental insurance. He always got good care.

    The VA is precisely what socialized medicine is: Bureaucratic and inferior. I'm happy for vets who need it. It's better than nothing. My sense is that everyone in a position to avoid it, avoids it.


  19. by oldedude on August 2, 2022 5:33 am
    "Are veterans precluded from having BOTH VA healthcare AND Medicare or Medicaid? I don't have long waits with Medicare to see a doctor."

    You can have both, or a private plan. The issue is that if you are treated by any one of these, it's negates that piece of your rating.

    So say in your and Sheri's case do back surgery and that is part of your claim, because another doctor (outside of VA) did the procedure and you haven't be rated for that issue it negates any rating for that claim. If that's your major claim, you just screwed yourself out of your rating.

    Also, your rating is the percentage of how "disabled" you are. At walter Reed in MD, VA was demanding the paperwork for traumatic amputees because they had to prove it happened while on duty. These are people hit by IEDs and EFPs.


  20. by Curt_Anderson on August 2, 2022 8:41 am
    "My dad was a WWII vet. He wouldn't have touched the VA with a ten foot pole.

    Dad had Medicare Part C. He could afford good supplemental insurance. He always got good care.

    The VA is precisely what socialized medicine is: Bureaucratic and inferior." -- HtS

    "Keep your gubmint, socialized medicine hands off my Medicare!" ---HtS's dad.

    I don't get why disabled and debilitated veterans "wait for years" to see VA doctors and get VA medical treatment when they have the same access to Medicare and Medicaid as other Americans.


  21. by Donna on August 2, 2022 12:34 pm
    Well you only get Medicare when you turn 65 and you can only get Medicaid if your income is dismally low. If you don't fall in either of those categories, private insurance and the VA are your only options.


  22. by oldedude on August 2, 2022 1:35 pm
    The VA is precisely what socialized medicine is: Bureaucratic and inferior. I'm happy for vets who need it. It's better than nothing. My sense is that everyone in a position to avoid it, avoids it.
    That is exactly the case. My oldest son spent two years in the fetal position getting over his PTS instead of going to the VA. They're using decades old therapies, where there are known, better therapies, but they don't want to change since these are in place.


    I don't get why disabled and debilitated veterans "wait for years" to see VA doctors and get VA medical treatment when they have the same access to Medicare and Medicaid as other Americans.
    Like I've said several times, the do see doctors, but at 100% of cost until they are rated. In my case, in the case of sarin, Agent Orange, Fires, etcetcetcetcetc, the VA has access to information that is not given to civilian doctors. Once you are rated, you get covered at that percentage from the VA. Civilian doctors will treat each item as a separate issue and not connect the dots because they aren't taught the totally of the situation. To tell a civilian doc you were exposed to Sarin, what they know is what you know. And pondy laughed at it and just blamed it on the government.

    Donna- to your point. So many of those trying to get VA rating are in their 20's and 30's. THe immunizations and sarin issue brings folks in their 40's and 50's. And I'm not doing as bad as many others. Women forced to immunize have a huge chance of ovarian, cervical, and breast cancer. About two years after the Gulf war, we were "advised" not to have any more children for fear of genetic issues. This was from the forced immunization.


  23. by Donna on August 2, 2022 1:47 pm
    "They're using decades old therapies, where there are known, better therapies, but they don't want to change since these are in place."

    Do you think it's that, or do you think that Congress isn't allocating nearly enough money to attract the best medical professionals and purchase the best medical equipment?

    "So many of those trying to get VA rating are in their 20's and 30's. THe immunizations and sarin issue brings folks in their 40's and 50's."

    That's what I figured. And I'm sure that the overwhelming majority of them don't qualify for Medicaid, and of course not Medicare.

    "To tell a civilian doc you were exposed to Sarin, what they know is what you know. And pondy laughed at it and just blamed it on the government."

    I don't remember my wife laughing at anything having to do with sarin and neither does she. She may have rightfully blamed sarin exposure on our government, though.


  24. by oldedude on August 2, 2022 3:20 pm
    by Donna on August 2, 2022 1:47 pm
    "They're using decades old therapies, where there are known, better therapies, but they don't want to change since these are in place."

    Do you think it's that, or do you think that Congress isn't allocating nearly enough money to attract the best medical professionals and purchase the best medical equipment?


    There isn't really much medical equipment to the new therapy, although there are several companies are now using the stellate ganglion block theory. From what's been released, which isn't much, this was the first step. Other advances have been made.
    This started in 2013. "The procedure, called stellate ganglion block, or SGB, involves injecting a local anesthetic into the stellate ganglion. This group of nerve cells and nerves in the neck helps regulate the body's “fight or flight” mechanism. As more and more patients tried the stellate ganglion block, the reports seemed promising." Honestly, it's about who's paying off the group of bureaucrats that "approve" the therapy. VA makes lots of money with veterans in "therapy." They are also able to use other branches of the government to do warrantless entry in to veterans houses. This is one reason my sons would not divulge any PTS issues. A friend of ours, WWII veteran was a rancher my wife knew. His wife died and he thought he could use some help. Along with a 72-hour hold and treat (even though they're not a law enforcement entity), they had BATFE remove all the guns in his house. BATFE thought it was bullshit, but they're obligated to do it. His son just removed the guns and took them over to his house.

    "So many of those trying to get VA rating are in their 20's and 30's. The immunizations and sarin issue brings folks in their 40's and 50's."

    That's what I figured. And I'm sure that the overwhelming majority of them don't qualify for Medicaid, and of course not Medicare.


    Many folks don't understand the rapid changes in the VA demographics. It wasn't until the 1990's where every VA facility was equipped with a female restrooms. Later for GYN docs (the VA thought women being injured were just a phase). That's what bureaucracy does. It doesn't have to stay up with the newest to ensure they're competitive.

    "To tell a civilian doc you were exposed to Sarin, what they know is what you know. And pondy laughed at it and just blamed it on the government."

    I don't remember my wife laughing at anything having to do with sarin and neither does she. She may have rightfully blamed sarin exposure on our government, though.


    Actually we were talking about the fact that Iraq buried their stockpiles of sarin. She claimed it was the US that gassed their own people (US did not have chemical weapons in the area, and those stockpiles are being destroyed). In the middle of bumfuck Iraq, several readied containers (sarin is carried in two "inert" places on the weapon, when the weapon lands, both are ruptured an mix producing the gas). Some of the chemicals were mixed while they were being neutralized. Pondy laughed and said "so it was the US that wanted to kill their own troops!" Being a victim of such a thing while I was saving lives, I didn't appreciate the humor.
    rti.org


  25. by Donna on August 2, 2022 4:59 pm
    I still think that if the VA wasn't forced to provide heakthcare on the cheap, veterans would be getting better medical care and he costs woukdn't be passed onto them and their families.

    My wife wouldn't laugh at the effects of sarin gas on our soldiers. I'm thinking that you're confusing her with Indy who really did seem to have disdain towards military people. You often attribute things he said as well as his general attitude towards military people to me.


  26. by Curt_Anderson on August 2, 2022 5:37 pm
    As predicted, tantrum is over...

    Senate passes long-sought bill to help veterans affected by burn pits



  27. by oldedude on August 2, 2022 6:23 pm
    "My wife wouldn't laugh at the effects of sarin gas on our soldiers. I'm thinking that you're confusing her with Indy who really did seem to have disdain towards military people. You often attribute things he said as well as his general attitude towards military people to me."

    No. I'm very sure I remembered it as it happened. For once, indy actually shut up during this.


  28. by Donna on August 3, 2022 7:54 am
    Your memory has failed countless times before. In fact it's been one of my main points of contention with you.

    If anyone here is going to claim that someone said something, then they need to prove it. When I make such a claim, I always make sure to prove it. If I can't provide proof, then I don't make the claim. That's just common etiquette.


  29. by oldedude on August 3, 2022 8:32 am
    Look, You keep saying this (ala Indy, and pond regarding the burning of the police precent, etcetcetcetc) and every time I prove you to have an extremely selective memory. Both of you. So you can be as pissed as you want or not. I really don't care. It has no impact on my life, as much as you (both) allow me to live in yours. Although I have people to talk to. The entire US health insurance laws, Trump, among many, many others.


  30. by Donna on August 3, 2022 9:15 am
    I'm not talking about the burning of the precinct - I'm talking about your accusation about what my wife supposedly said regarding sarin gas. My wife would never laugh at victims of sarin gas or for that matter anything.

    I'm tired of seeing this insane caricature you've painted of her. We just celebrated our 20 year wedding anniversary. Suffice to say I know her well and love her with every fiber of my being. You need to cease and desist.


  31. by oldedude on August 3, 2022 9:34 am
    You're wrong. I am using that as ONE example of you "forgetting" what you said.


  32. by Donna on August 3, 2022 9:43 am
    **sigh**

    Please cease and desist.


  33. by oldedude on August 3, 2022 11:02 am
    Well, you're accusing me of making shit up. I'm not. Period.
    Please put a cease and desist to your lying.


  34. by Donna on August 3, 2022 11:06 am
    You're lying about be supposedly accusing you of lying. I didn't say that.


  35. by oldedude on August 3, 2022 8:22 pm
    "I'm tired of seeing this insane caricature you've painted of her."
    and there it is...


  36. by Donna on August 4, 2022 12:20 pm
    Right, because I think it's based on your faulty memory. I don't think you're lying.

    As George Costanza famously said, "It isn't s lie if you believe it".


  37. by oldedude on August 4, 2022 7:50 pm
    Actually, my memory is extremely good. That was my job. To remember nitnoi facts to help people now. "who was the cousin of ali ali buttfucker who just murdered a platoon of Marines, and who were they married to. And before that, it was how much of what drug per kilo of a patient to give to that patient so I would calm them down without killing them. All of this was done in my head. We didn't carry books, or anything like that.

    I remember the post.


  38. by Donna on August 4, 2022 11:16 pm
    Actually you just, and I'll be kind here, "misinterpret" that I lied. And that had nothing to do with your memory. You have a tendency to misinterpret the meaning of what others say.



  39. by oldedude on August 5, 2022 4:57 am
    Okaaaaayyyyyyy......
    who am I talking to now? An alter ego? because I never said you said that. At all. I'll be "kind." Must be some deep pretty deep paranoia as we've discussed earlier.


  40. by Donna on August 5, 2022 10:43 am
    You said to me, "Well, you're accusing me of making sht up".

    Making sht up means lying. So IOW you said that I accused you of lying. That was a lie, as can be corroborated simply by examining my comments on this topic thread. Nowhere did I accuse you of "making sht up" (lying). I said that she never said that and that your memory was faulty.


  41. by oldedude on August 5, 2022 12:40 pm
    So you dodged, faked, so you could throw a sucker punch. Got it.

    "I'm tired of seeing this insane caricature you've painted of her."
    I'm using her words. What could be more accurate? I'm not lying about it.

    "Actually you just, and I'll be kind here, "misinterpret" that I lied. And that had nothing to do with your memory. You have a tendency to misinterpret the meaning of what others say."
    i.e. I lied, which I did not and have not done.


  42. by Donna on August 5, 2022 4:18 pm
    I didn't say you lied. But you said that I said you lied, which is a lie.

    But if want to insist that that isn't true, fine, whatever. I'm bored with this.


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