Comments posted organically
Politics selectors, pages, etc.
How long before Trump Republicans accept the fact that the election was not “stolen” and was not “rigged” ?

By islander
October 26, 2021 7:04 am
Category: Politics
(0.0 from 0 votes)
SelectSmart.com    SelectSmart.com    SelectSmart.com


Share
Rules of the Post
Rate this article
(5=best, 0=poor)
5 Stars
4 Stars
3 Stars
2 Stars
1 Star
0 Stars


I think all we have to do is look back and see how easy it was to convince so many Americans that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11. The people who, back then, despite all the evidence to the contrary still believed Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attack are virtually the same people today who believe the election was stolen or somehow rigged.

Six years later there was still a significant percentage of the population who believed Saddam was responsible (32%), about the same number who still believe that the election was stolen.

"The Bush administration was eager to mobilize the anguish of the 9/11 attack to support the war. Despite the intelligence community’s unequivocal conclusion that Iraq had nothing to do with either 9/11 or al-Qaida, the administration let Americans believe the contrary.

Consequently, the United States went to war in Iraq on a false pretense that it was somehow avenging those killed by al-Qaida. A Washington Post poll conducted two years after 9/11 dramatically illustrated the story: 69% of Americans at the time believed Saddam Hussein was “personally” involved in the 9/11 attack. Even more staggering, 82% believed Saddam provided assistance to Osama bin Laden. Both were utterly false.

One lesson of the past 20 years is the imperative of an informed public. Sadly, we are still a long way from an enlightened public.”


Cited and related links:

  1. brookings.edu
  2. cbsnews.com


The views and claims expressed by contributors are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and beliefs of SelectSmart.com. Not every statement made here can be assumed to be a fact.
Comments:

  1. by HatetheSwamp on October 26, 2021 7:30 am

    It seems to me that both sides have their conspiracy theory narrative about the 020 election. You Swampcult Blue MAGA progressives here beat the Trump myth to death.

    But, there's the other side's, in my mind, much more ridiculous myth, i.e., the Dems did no cheating in the election. Donna dumped that on the old forum, as I recall, the morning after the election. She later, very imprecisly backed away from that claim to assert that whatever cheating might have been done didn't change the results of the election.

    So, the question that accompanies the Trump question is how long until supporters of "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" will continue to deny Dem chesting?

    As far as I can tell, in answer to the Trump question, the answer is, never.

    There is so much dishonesty in the DNA of the Swamp, that it's hard not to think that there were shenanigans.

    I, for myself, am convinced that the Dems cheated spectacularly and ingeniously.

    Do I think that Trump would have won an honest election? I've stopped saying that with certainty. As always, I restrict myself to what I know. The Dems cheated in Philadelphia. The official count in Pennsylvania is the Joe won by a significant margin. Would he have won without the cheating? I doubt it but I'm not sure.

    So, never.

    Now. How long until the Dems stop pretending that there was no cheating?


  2. by islander on October 26, 2021 8:02 am

    All you have to do is present credible evidence to support your belief that the election was stolen and explain the mechanics of it, that is, explain how the men in the smoked filled rooms managed to make it appear that Joe won more votes than Trump when, as you believe, Trump got more votes than Biden?

    Unless you are now back-peddling from that position and semi-acknowledging that the election might actually have been quite secure and results might really be fairly accurate ?

    And by credible evidence, I don't mean the kind of nonsense that was examined by the courts and thrown out because it wasn't credible evidence.

    If you are talking about how the political parties work out who they will nominate to represent their party and have the best chance at winning the election, then you can speculate all you want on how they should go about it and how or why they failed to nominate a winning candidate, or at least nominate a candidate that you liked.


  3. by HatetheSwamp on October 26, 2021 9:20 am

    isle,

    I think it's apparent that the Dems finagled mail-in ballots by separating the ballots from their security envelopes so that fraud could not be detected and, to a lesser extent, through ballot harvesting.

    Both methods are difficult to prove once they've been perpetrated, although Trump's been talking about the considerable circumstantial evidence.

    I guess that the answer to the question about the myth bandied by supporters of "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap," in your case anyway, is, never.


  4. by Donna on October 27, 2021 3:32 am
    That was debunked on the other topic thread, Bill. For an educated person, you certainly fall for a lot of horseshit.

    When I said the Dems didn't cheat, I obviously meant that there was no widespread cheating or organized effort by the Dems to cheat. It would be stupid to claim that no Democratic Party voters cheated. I don't know of any cases offhand other than a few instances where Republican Party voters cheated, but I would imagine that in a country the size of the US that there probably were some Democratic Party voters who cheated.

    But I think you know what I meant when I said that. I don't appreciate being name-dropped and then lied about.


  5. by HatetheSwamp on October 27, 2021 5:34 am

    It was not debunked, Donna.

    Or, to be more accurate, it was debunked in the universe in which Rachel is Walter Cronkite, a responsible journalist...which she ain't!

    The problem with this conversation is that your side feeds off of a profoundly Trumpaphobic media...and believes it blindly.

    As far as the Philly stuff is concerned, I was following this every day, from local sources, as the votes were being counted.

    I know what the Dems did in prohibiting a fair count of the ballots. At the time, I asked myself why the Dems would be doing what they were doing unless they wanted to cheat.

    They wanted to cheat.

    They did cheat.


  6. by Donna on October 27, 2021 8:07 am
    I had a nice, polite response all typed out, but I deleted it. I'll let Curt and islander take it from here if they're interested in wasting more of their time.






  7. by islander on October 27, 2021 8:07 am

    Hate wrote: ” I think it's apparent that the Dems finagled mail-in ballots by separating the ballots from their security envelopes so that fraud could not be detected and, to a lesser extent, through ballot harvesting”

    This shows that that you do not understand the purpose of the security envelopes or why the ballots have to be separated from them even though Curt has explained this to you.



  8. by HatetheSwamp on October 27, 2021 8:24 am

    Ah, yes. You UNDERSTAND everyeffinthing!!!!! We know. We KNOW!

    You've made that clear.

    The thing is that I live outside Philly and I was following the scandal on a daily basis. I know about the judge's order. I know how the Dems diddled in response.

    And, I've been following the corruption of the Dem Philadelphia political machine since I was in Jr High.

    You just need to UNDERSTAND the basic facts of life! Problem is that a know it all thinks there's nuthin left to learn.


  9. by Donna on October 27, 2021 8:33 am
    Way too many keystrokes to say absolutely nothing, Bill.


  10. by HatetheSwamp on October 27, 2021 9:02 am

    Donna,

    All of this proves my contention that we have reason to believe that the smoke filled room handlers of "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" cheated in the election.

    I was here. Right outside of Philadelphia. I was following this whole thing carefully and I have reason, based in real life events, to believe beyond doubt that the Dems cheated.

    You guys have nothing but the reporting of biased sources.

    Splain to me why I should doubt what I know for certain to be true, based on the reporting of the highly biased PolitiFact?

    Subjectivity is truth. Yours, mine and ours.

    What y'nes can't handle is people who refuse to accept the drivel of the biased SwampMedia sources that feed your presuppositions.

    Subjectivity is your truth as it is mine. Live it. Let's love it.


  11. by Curt_Anderson on October 27, 2021 10:01 am
    HtS,
    What do you mean, "I was here. Right outside of Philadelphia"? You aren't an election monitor. You don't work for the county clerk's office counting votes.

    You were merely reading and watching news reports. In that regard you're as close as any of us who are capable of reading the Philadelphia Inquirer or any other Pennsylvania news source online.

    What are your news sources? And who do they say now legitimately won the election?


  12. by Curt_Anderson on October 27, 2021 10:06 am
    Donna, I really like your last comment! It is definitely worthy of reposting as a stand alone opinion piece.


  13. by Donna on October 27, 2021 10:14 am
    Thank you, Curt. Which comment are you referring to?


  14. by HatetheSwamp on October 27, 2021 10:18 am

    I was listening to contemporaneous reports of the events from people who were at the scene of the "crime." Certainly, there's more to be known.

    You, however, are relying on the biased reports of the SwampMedia which contain details I know for a fact to be inaccurate.

    I'll rely on my sources over yours each and every day.

    I have excellent reason to believe that those smoke filled room handlers of "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" cheated.

    And, you don't know enough to convince me that what I know to be true, is true.


  15. by Curt_Anderson on October 27, 2021 11:09 am
    Donna,
    I posted in the wrong thread. I was complimenting your comment in the fraud and finagle thread which started with:
    by Donna on October 27, 2021 9:59 am
    It looks to me like the only way observers would be able to verify signatures...


  16. by Curt_Anderson on October 27, 2021 11:15 am
    HtS,
    Even here on the far-flung westernmost edge of America we get contemporaneous news. Do you think that we get our news here via Pony Express or stagecoach?

    As I asked you before what are your news sources and who do they now say legitimately won the presidential election?


  17. by islander on October 27, 2021 1:20 pm

    Hate wrote:” I have excellent reason to believe that those smoke filled room handlers of "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" cheated.

    And, you don't know enough to convince me that what I know to be true, is true.”


    I doubt anyone here is trying to convince you that what you think is true is in fact true.

    What makes it impossible for anyone to imagine they could seriously carry on an honest discussion with you is, simply put you don’t believe that there is such a thing as truth. Truth is not a subjective belief. Truth is that which conforms to reality. It is not dependent on whether we believe something is true or not.

    Once someone rejects that, like you do, communication with you becomes pointless.

    The rest of us know that what we believe to be true might or might not be true. So we are always striving to discover the truth or come closer to it. All the factual empirical evidence in the world, if it was contrary to what you think is true, could be presented to you and it could never convince you that what you believe is the truth, is not the truth. How could it? Since, if what you believe to be true is, in reality, not true, that would destroy the meaning of truth for you.


  18. by HatetheSwamp on October 27, 2021 2:51 pm

    What makes it impossible for anyone to imagine they could seriously carry on an honest discussion with you is, simply put you don’t believe that there is such a thing as truth. Truth is not a subjective belief. Truth is that which conforms to reality. It is not dependent on whether we believe something is true or not.

    Huh!!!!!

    I certainly believe that there is such a thing as truth. I'm a Christian!

    Absolutely, truth is not a subjective belief!

    But, the reality is that none of us are Mr Spock, as much as some of you aspire to it and as much as some of you delude yourself into thinking you are. Most of us are much more Dr McCoy than we want to admit.


  19. by Curt_Anderson on October 27, 2021 3:06 pm
    "I certainly believe that there is such a thing as truth. I'm a Christian!" -HtS

    Non sequitur.



  20. by HatetheSwamp on October 27, 2021 3:11 pm

    Really, Curt!!!!!?


  21. by islander on October 27, 2021 4:45 pm

    Hate wrote:” What this means is that subjectivity is truth...

    ...which is what I've been saying all along.”


    Hate then goes on to contradict himself (it must be hell living in a state of conative dissonance): ” Absolutely, truth is not a subjective belief!”

    All of the useless mental gymnastics you put yourself through just to try and justify your position that your beliefs are just as likely to be true as anyone else’s since nobody is omniscient and all knowing.

    You don’t, apparently, appreciate how weak an argument that is when trying to discover or get closer to the truth. In your concept of reality (if you believe what you post here) the belief that the world is flat is just as likely to be true as that the world is an oblate spheroid, what we commonly call “round”, since the evidence used to demonstrate that it is round is only the result of biased beliefs (just like your own beliefs in what is likely to be true are as you say, based on your own biased beliefs).




  22. by HatetheSwamp on October 28, 2021 4:56 am

    Oy, isle. I think we're getting pretty far afield.

    A way someone else splains what I mean is this (though I'm afraid you already know this but are suffering from delusions and think you really are Mr Spock):

    "A subjective truth is a truth based off of a person's perspective, feelings, or opinions. Everything we know is based off of our input - our senses, our perception. Thus, everything we know is subjective. All truths are subjective."

    What I love about forums like this is that everyone of us brings ourselves to reality.

    For example, you see the chaotic mess that is the 020 election in the way you do because you are, in fact, NOT Mr Spock. You are a person with strong opinions and passions.

    I have always admitted that about myself...and I praise po for not even considering any reality save po's reality.

    The reason that you and I disagree with each other politically is because we are very different people who bring ourselves to political discourse.

    There certainly are truths involved but our differences are rooted in the reality that we encounter those truths as subjects.

    This is precisely why I mock you for suggesting that I don't UNDERSTAND. The issue is that we are both ourselves. We look at the, in this case, political, objective, reality as subjects.

    Now, as I said, I'm fairly certain you understand the philosophy. I'm also afraid that you are deranged enough to think that you are above all that human stuff.


  23. by islander on October 28, 2021 7:16 am

    Hate wrote: "A subjective truth is a truth based off of a person's perspective, feelings, or opinions. Everything we know is based off of our input - our senses, our perception. Thus, everything we know is subjective. All truths are subjective."

    All truths are NOT subjective…[Truth is that which conforms to reality]

    What you are failing to understand Hate, is that in this instance, when we are discussing the truth over whether or not Biden or Trump won the election, or whether there was fraud or not, the answer to that question is not what you call a subjective truth. The answer is not a “You have your truth and I have my truth”. The answer to that question of who won, for it to be true, must conform to reality. The only subjective truth would be that I believe Biden won (which is true) and you believe Trump won, which if you are being honest is true. But that only answers the question, “What do you believe?”. It does not even address the question of whether Trump or Biden actually won the election.

    The question is not who do you or I believe won the election, the answer to that is clearly stated at the very start. The question is, who actually won the election.



  24. by HatetheSwamp on October 28, 2021 7:34 am

    UNDERSTAND

    What you are failing to understand

    How was I convinced that those words would be in your reply!!!!!?

    The question is not who do you or I believe won the election, the answer to that is clearly stated at the very start. The question is, who actually won the election.

    "That feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" won the election. No doubt. You and I agree about that. The Electoral College voted. Congress certified.

    The truth that motivates me...and nearly half of likely voters...is that shenanigans were involved in putting the former 18 wheeler driver in the White House...

    ...and that you will never accept that reality because of the way you, as a subject, engage reality.

    And, I will accept it because of the fraudulent behavior of Dems in Philly...and because of the way I, as a subject, engage reality.


  25. by Donna on October 28, 2021 10:27 am
    When he goes into his "feckless demented..." bit, he's out of cogent responses. That's why he goes to that multiple times daily.



  26. by HatetheSwamp on October 28, 2021 3:22 pm

    That may very well be true but I currently refer to the current denizen of the White House only as:

    "That feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap," in homage to Kathy McCollum who first turned the phrase in response to her anger over "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap's" responsibility for the death of her son in Afghanistan as a result of the ineptitude of the former 18 wheeler driver.

    Or, as the former 18 wheeler driver.

    I certainly rarely call him Biden or Joe or even Clouseau.


  27. by Curt_Anderson on October 28, 2021 3:56 pm
    That feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap,

    You keep quoting a grieving Trump voter. Kathy McCollum falsely believes that the Democrats cheated and that Biden was elected illegitimately. She is also sad her son died.


  28. by HatetheSwamp on October 29, 2021 4:34 am

    All I know about Kathy McCollum is that she spoke out of the conviction, well, "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" killed her son through his brainless, incompetent handling of the Afghanistan withdrawal.

    If all of those things you say are true, and I don't doubt you, she's on board with nearly half of likely voters.




* Anonymous comments are subject to approval before they appear. Cookies Consent Policy & Privacy Statement. All Rights Reserved. SelectSmart® is a registered trademark. | Contact SelectSmart.com | Advertise on SelectSmart.com | This site is for sale!

Find old posts & articles

Articles by category:
SelectSmart.com
Report spam & abuse
SelectSmart.com home page


From our contributors:
Display Order:
Creepy US PSYOPS Mission Patches with Occult Images
Military by Donna     May 21, 2022 6:03 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (10 comments) [232 views]


Biden and most lawmakers are on Putin's Naughty List; Trump and FOX News are on the Nice List
Travel by Curt_Anderson     May 21, 2022 8:04 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (4 comments) [147 views]


Buh-Bye Bad Blues
Politics by Donna     May 19, 2022 10:58 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (7 comments) [150 views]


European countries have sensible abortion laws
Opinion by Donna     May 6, 2022 11:47 pm (Rating: 5.0)
Last comment by islander (145 comments) [2040 views]


Ludicrously Pathetic Straws are All the Republicans Have Left to Grasp At
Mythology by Ponderer     April 28, 2022 9:39 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by HatetheSwamp (27 comments) [1432 views]


"Significant" uptick in abortion-related violent threats after Supreme Court draft opinion leak, DHS warns
Government by HatetheSwamp     May 19, 2022 5:24 am (Rating: 1.0)
Last comment by HatetheSwamp (34 comments) [255 views]


Hillary approved sharing false Trump-Russia claims with press, campaign manager says
Crime by HatetheSwamp     May 20, 2022 4:47 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by HatetheSwamp (8 comments) [101 views]


RCP: Democrats pull within two points of Republicans in 2022 Generic Congressional Vote Poll since SCOTUS leak
Fact Check by Curt_Anderson     May 20, 2022 12:13 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by HatetheSwamp (4 comments) [132 views]


The danger of frost has passed. We just put in our tomatoes and pepper plants.
Flora by Curt_Anderson     May 20, 2022 3:05 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (6 comments) [69 views]


Archbishop bars Pelosi from communion over support for abortion rights
Religion by HatetheSwamp     May 20, 2022 1:14 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by (0 comments) [215 views]