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One case of Covid in population of 5 million

By islander
August 19, 2021 4:24 am
Category: Politics
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While I don’t expect to see our country do anything like New Zealand is doing, it does show that lockdowns can work.

It also shows the value of teamwork whether it’s playing sports, fighting a war or fighting a disease. When everybody can get together and work as good team to bring about success for a common cause, the chances for success are infinitely better than they are for a rag-tag ‘team’ made up of individuals fighting with each other and having the, “nobody’s gonna tell me what to do” attitude and the “every man for himself” approach.



Cited and related links:

  1. newscentermaine.com


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Comments:

  1. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2021 5:44 am

    We fell in love with New Zealand from the moment we saw the first episode of The Brokenwood Mysteries, which you can stream on Acorn.

    Based on the bucolic views of New Zealand one gets from the show, the country can be breathtakingly beautiful.

    And, isle, the people of New Zealand were handed their independence. It was handed to them without struggle, with no sacrifice and, the people of New Zealand have no Bill of Rights.

    Obviously, people who think differently than you having liberty is a problem for you.

    The cost of living in New Zealand is not outrageously high. It may be a good match for you. I say that because the constant theme of your posts here describes the evil of those who think differently than you do.

    Perhaps you should consider leaving us. We are a nation where the foundational belief that all people possess God-given liberty. That belief leads to the sort of chaos you can't seem to abide.


  2. by islander on August 19, 2021 6:49 am

    Once again, the typical pb/hateTS response to a post that he doesn’t, for whatever reason, like or seem to understand. Go off point, try to insult the author and mischaracterize the other’s position. Pb/hate/TS will do it every-time.

    Just so that you know pb, the post was about the value of working together as a team to defeat a common enemy, in this case, the Covid virus.



  3. by Curt_Anderson on August 19, 2021 7:20 am
    Americans were unified during World War II. People were on patriotically enlisting, and supportive of war bonds, rationing and other efforts to defeat the Axis powers.

    Later the same America defeated and wiped out polio. Nobody ascribed political motivations to the polio vaccine. Doctor Jonas Salk was not vilified by the political leaders of a particular party.

    It is possible to have differences of political opinion yet band together for the common good. Republicans, and especially Trump supporters, don't seem to realize that.


  4. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2021 8:56 am

    Once again, the typical pb/hateTS response to a post that he doesn’t, for whatever reason, like or seem to understand. Go off point, try to insult the author and mischaracterize the other’s position. Pb/hate/TS will do it every-time.

    I'm sure that my post came across as harsh but the truth is that New Zealand is not a story of teamwork and collaboration.

    It's a story of what happens when, ultimately, the liberty of citizens is not a country's baseline.

    Every time I read one your posts, and with many of Curt's as well, I wonder what you're doing here. We are a nation built on an absolutely radical guarantee of individual liberty.

    And, Canada is not so far away from either of you. Gently tyranny is probably what?, one tank of gas up the road.


  5. by islander on August 19, 2021 9:13 am

    ” It is possible to have differences of political opinion yet band together for the common good. Republicans, and especially Trump supporters, don't seem to realize that.”

    I suspect that although it had been going on for a while, one of the catalysts that led to the Tea Party and ultimately to the Republican Trump supporters and enablers was the advent of Ayn Rand’s so called objectivist philosophy in which selfishness is touted as the highest virtue and altruism was a moral evil and a scourge on society.


  6. by Donna on August 19, 2021 9:28 am
    Many Americans don't seem to understand that although we have individual liberty (within the bounds of law, of course; we can't do anything we want,) we also breathe the same air and occupy the same space. We're all in this together.


  7. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2021 9:47 am

    It is possible to have differences of political opinion yet band together for the common good. Republicans, and especially Trump supporters, don't seem to realize that.

    Of course, it's the fault of Trump supporters and GOPs. Honestly, Curt, I'd a thought that you'd be beyond that.

    From where I stand, the people causing the problem are the people who pretend away the Declaration of Independence. Of course, we'd all behave if we accepted your brand of fascism,...which FDR didn't invoke in the 1940s.

    Nevertheless, I have thought about this a lot and I will admit that, let's say libertarians, are an issue.

    But, then, during WWII, many Americans cherished liberty.

    I honestly believe that your side's inability to persuade us that Joe's a legitimate President and that the Dems didn't steal the election is, at root, the problem.

    You know very well that nearly half of likely voters genuinely believe that Joe didn't win legitimately and your side's response is to sneer and mock them.

    Many, many Americans honestly don't believe that Joe's a legitimate President. Here in Pennsylvania, many people also believe that our Dem governor, along with the Philadelphia Dem machine, fiddled with the vote.

    And, now your side calls those people who feel cheated, then mocked, kindly to fall in line with Joe and other Dems who ask them to set aside their freedom.

    Why, Curt? FDR, who started out with significant cred among nearly all Americans, fought to win the hearts of every American.

    You start and blame GOPs and Trump supporters for this problem. Then, you wonder why they won't join with you.

    Sanctimony sucks. But, you guys are good at it.


  8. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2021 9:52 am

    Many Americans don't seem to understand that although we have individual liberty (within the bounds of law, of course; we can't do anything we want,) we also breathe the same air and occupy the same space. We're all in this together. -Donna

    From this side of the political continuum, I'll say that, as long as you continue to tell other Americans that the problem is that they don't UNDERSTAND, i.e., they ain't smart enough to be you, you won't convince anyone to be as you are and to do as you do.

    At least, and we'll agree about this: It hasn't worked yet.


  9. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2021 10:10 am

    I suspect that although it had been going on for a while, one of the catalysts that led to the Tea Party and ultimately to the Republican Trump supporters and enablers was the advent of Ayn Rand’s so called objectivist philosophy in which selfishness is touted as the highest virtue and altruism was a moral evil and a scourge on society.

    Interestingly, isle, when I read your post that initiated this thread, I thought very similar thoughts. I do think that condescension oozes from your post.

    What you criticize, I see as a philosophical difference on which I pass no judgment.

    The Declaration of Independence launched the USA with a fierce sense that every person possesses, by virtue of their existence as a creation of God, individual liberty that comes from God which no human or human institution can take away.

    Rand picked up on Jefferson's radical commitment to the value of the individual. Rand fits well within the essential spirit of America.

    As you make clear, especially in denouncing Rand, you object to the very essential American commitment to individual liberty.

    As I said, if you fill up your gas tank and head north, you can free yourself from our fierce and radical commitment to individual liberty. I'm confident you'd fit in well.


  10. by Donna on August 19, 2021 10:18 am
    America's founders themselves didn't believe in individual liberty, as many of them owned slaves.


  11. by Donna on August 19, 2021 10:23 am
    America has 11 states where it's illegal to use marijuana, which is a blatant encroachment on individual liberty.


  12. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2021 10:31 am

    Donna,

    You make a good point.

    I think that they believed and compared to what was going on in Europe, which was their context, they practiced individual liberty radically, though, as we all agree, not perfectly.

    Less than a century later, hundreds of thousands gave their lives to free slaves. And, later, further actualization of the principles of the Declaration of Independence took place...

    ...BECAUSE Americans believe in those principles.

    Are you suggesting that we abandon the beacon that the Declaration of Independence has been in the American heart?

    There are times, it seems to me that that's what packed into some of the posts here.


  13. by Curt_Anderson on August 19, 2021 10:37 am
    You've invoked Canada a few times. I have been to two provinces of Canada: British Columbia and the province of Quebec. In particular I've been to Victoria, Vancouver, Montreal and Quebec City. The people there seem mighty happy.


  14. by Donna on August 19, 2021 10:43 am
    Hts - Other than what I cited, in what way is individual freedom being abandoned?


  15. by HatetheSwamp on August 19, 2021 10:57 am

    You've invoked Canada a few times. I have been to two provinces of Canada: British Columbia and the province of Quebec. In particular I've been to Victoria, Vancouver, Montreal and Quebec City. The people there seem mighty happy.

    Precisely. And, I'm certain that isle would be happy there, too, not having to endure the selfishness of so many of us in the USA. You, too?


  16. by islander on August 19, 2021 11:04 am

    Listen to yourself pb/hateTS LoL !!!


  17. by islander on August 19, 2021 11:06 am

    ”America's founders themselves didn't believe in individual liberty,”

    You’re right Donna! At least not the way we do! They said the words properly but they didn’t believe in or simply couldn’t walk the walk. They didn’t believe those freedoms were meant for all men or that we are all created equal. We’ll always be working towards a better understanding of what individual freedom means and what our rights should be. Our rights didn’t fall down from heaven, we ourselves choose them through mutual consent.



  18. by HatetheSwamp on August 20, 2021 4:41 am

    isle,

    There's a smidge of truth in some of what you write. Where you're wrong is that our citizens have the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights in writing.

    And, your rants are, well, rants.

    From day one, this nation declared that it values individual liberty and all of the chaos that commitment empowers.

    We will never be New Zealand nor Australia nor Canada. We don't want to be. You have made it clear that you find our fierce individualism to be far less than ideal.

    The sort of tolerant, benign tyranny that you're praising is, really, a tank of gas away.

    Don't let the door hit you on your way out, if what we have aspired to since 1776 offends you.


  19. by islander on August 20, 2021 6:15 am

    ”From day one, this nation declared that it values individual liberty and all of the chaos that commitment empowers.” ---Hate

    “all the chaos that commitment empowers” LoL !!! You do realize that without defining just what “chaos” it empowers, or how, for example, it relates to a private business requiring customers to wear a mask in order to enter their place of business… your platitude is trite and pretty much meaningless. You forget that the chaos you speak of is “wisely” subject to being regulated by the laws we enact. And whether you’ll admit it or not…You are grateful that such chaos can be regulated.



  20. by HatetheSwamp on August 20, 2021 6:38 am

    You do realize that without defining just what “chaos” it empowers, or how, for example, it relates to a private business requiring customers to wear a mask in order to enter their place of business… your platitude is trite and pretty much meaningless. You forget that the chaos you speak of is “wisely” subject to being regulated by the laws we enact. And whether you’ll admit it or not…You are grateful that such chaos can be regulated.>/b>

    isle,

    I am absolutely and profoundly grateful that the chaos can be regulated.

    Even more so, though, I rejoice that our courts have remained reasonably faithful in upholding the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the guarantees of the Bill of Rights in frequently overturning oppressive and overreaching laws and regulations.

    The chaos empowered by the Declaration and the Bill of Rights certainly includes a private business requiring a mask and EVEN vaccination...

    ...while the business next door can invite the unmasked and unvaxxed.

    Chaos is precisely what our Founders empowered. Sadly, for you, while you are free to be you, I am free to be me.

    My confident take on our many exchanges over numerous years is that I celebrate you but you don't celebrate me.

    Heck! I'm an American's American. You? Not so much.


  21. by islander on August 20, 2021 11:12 am

    ”My confident take on our many exchanges over numerous years is that I celebrate you but you don't celebrate me.” ---Hate

    I can’t imagine why anybody wouldn’t celebrate me. Can you? And you are right, I definitely don’t celebrate you. Why would I?

    I also don’t respect all your opinions, however, I do respect your right to hold them as long as you don’t act on them in a way that is harmful to others.





  22. by HatetheSwamp on August 20, 2021 11:21 am

    And you are right, I definitely don’t celebrate you. Why would I?

    Because, like you, I have been endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights."


  23. by islander on August 20, 2021 11:41 am

    ”Because, like you, I have been endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights.”

    As I said, I don’t “celebrate you” but I respect your right to hold that opinion…as long as you don’t act on what you think are your rights given to you by God in a manner that harms other people.




  24. by HatetheSwamp on August 20, 2021 11:53 am

    isle,

    It's not that I think I have been endowed by my creator with certain inalienable rights. If you're an American, you also believe it because it's what all Americans believe.


  25. by islander on August 20, 2021 12:07 pm

    ”It's not that I think I have been endowed by my creator with certain inalienable rights” ---Hate

    Yes, that is what you think, else why did you just tell us in your previous post that you were endowed by your creator with certain inalienable rights?

    And not all Americans believe what you claim they do, all Americans don’t believe in a creator or believe that our rights were formulated by a creator and then given to us…




  26. by HatetheSwamp on August 20, 2021 12:54 pm

    Fair enough. AMERICA believes that people have been endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.

    My sense is that you regard yourself to be too enlightened to embrace our most foundational Enlightenment principle.


  27. by islander on August 20, 2021 2:53 pm

    Hate,
    I think you have qualified your position to death.


  28. by HatetheSwamp on August 20, 2021 3:17 pm

    isle,

    I'll do everything I can to be accommodating to you. It's all about you, buddy!




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