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Video Games selectors, pages, etc.
Israeli Forces Innocently Kill Three Hostages
By Ponderer
December 15, 2023 12:35 pm
Category: Video Games

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Certainly the Israeli military is not to blame. I am not saying that they are. Don't get me wrong. They are not responsible. It is absolutely not their fault. It couldn't possibly be their fault! All deaths that are currently happening are HAMAS's fault. No matter what. You can't blame the Israeli military for killing any non-combatants. I'm sure that many thousands of innocent Gazan citizens have already been killed by HAMAS making Israel kill them.

But I invite you to imagine...

Put yourself in the place of one of those hostages. Imagine what your last thought must have been in the last moment of life, having survived everything that they had gone through over the last couple months... only to by killed by their own people just as they became free.


IDF accidentally shoots and kills three Israelis held hostage in Gaza

Israeli soldiers shot and killed three Israeli hostages in northern Gaza who had been misidentified as a threat, the Israel Defense Forces said.

“During combat in Shejaiya, the IDF mistakenly identified three Israeli hostages as a threat. As a result, the troops fired toward them and they were killed,” IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari said in a news briefing on Friday.

“During searches and checks in the area in which the incident occurred, a suspicion arose over the identities of the deceased,” Hagari added. “Their bodies were transferred to Israeli territory for examination, after which it was confirmed that they were three Israeli hostages.”

The hostages have been identified as Yotam Haim, who was kidnapped from Kibbutz Kfar Aza by Hamas on October 7; Samer Talalka, who was kidnapped from Kibbutz Nir Am on the same day; and another male hostage, whose family requested that his name not be published.

The IDF began reviewing the incident immediately, Hagari said.

Hagari said the IDF believes the three men either escaped their captors or had been “left behind” because of the fighting in the area.

Asked whether the three men put their hands up or shouted in Hebrew, Hagari said the military is still “reviewing the details” and promised “full transparency about all the details of this incident.”

Israeli forces have been battling Hamas militants in close-quarters combat in recent days in locations across Gaza, including in Shejaiya and Jabalya in the north, and further south in Khan Younis.

Hagari said the incident occurred “in an area where our troops have confronted many terrorists over the past few days, even today, and engaged in heavy fighting.” He said Israeli soldiers had recently faced attacks in which fighters “tried to mislead our forces and fire-trap them,” as well as “suicide terrorists” who did not carry weapons.

Shortly after the hostages were mistakenly shot, Hagari said, Israeli forces confronted a group of fighters nearby.

Israel is still gathering facts about the fatal shooting, Hagari said. “Lessons and relevant instructions concerning the identification of hostages in battle zones have been immediately communicated to all IDF forces across the whole Gaza Strip,” he said.


Cited and related links:

  1. cnn.com

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Comments on "Israeli Forces Innocently Kill Three Hostages":

  1. by Donna on December 15, 2023 3:39 pm

    This is speculation. I think it's likely that what's happening now in the occupied territories is exactly what the Netanyahu regime has been planning for years.

    It turns out that the Netanyahu government has been sending hundreds of millions of dollars to Hamas in recent years with virtually no oversight. There was also reporting that came out several weeks ago that Israeli intelligence obtained Hamas's detailed plans of how they were going to attack Israel about a year ago, but Netanyahu blew it off even after Hamas was seen rehearsing the first part of the attack several weeks before they carried it out. And even then, Netanyahu still chose not to beef up security around Gaza.

    It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Netanyahu regime sacrificed the lives of 1,400 Israeli citizens living in kibbutzes in southern Israel to give them the justification to "mow the lawn" one last time in Gaza and virtually wipe it off the face of the Earth.

    Sadly, I think that what Israel is engaged in now is going to lead to a major war with Iran, possibly even nuclear. The first missiles Israel fires would be directed at Iran's secret uranium enrichment facility which is likeky located more deeply underground than the enrichment facility Israel took out years ago, possibly necessitating the use of nukes to destroy it.


  2. by Indy! on December 15, 2023 3:42 pm

    Literally a "shoot first and ask questions later" situation. The IDF must operate under the same rules as the LAPD and NYPD - the most important thing is for their people to get home safe. Screw everybody else.


  3. by Indy! on December 15, 2023 3:44 pm

    I have no problem believing the Netanyahoo thing. He even looks like a supervillain.


  4. by HatetheSwamp on December 15, 2023 3:56 pm

    It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Netanyahu regime sacrificed the lives of 1,400 Israeli citizens living in kibbutzes in southern Israel to give them the justification to "mow the lawn" one last time in Gaza and virtually wipe it off the face of the Earth.

    Can someone splain to me the practical difference between a Neo-Nazi wearing a KKK robe and an elitist progressive American Neo Neo-Nazi?, cuz if you told me a KKK member wrote that, I'd believe you.



  5. by Ponderer on December 15, 2023 4:11 pm

    No kidding, Indy!. He's like Israel's very own Vladimir Putin.

    And we're not alone in thinking Netanyahu is doing a horribly monstrous job and hasn't got Israeli citizens' best interests at heart...


    Poll: Less than 4% of Jewish Israelis believe Netanyahu is reliable source of info on war

    A recent poll finds that less than 4 percent of the Jewish Israeli public believe Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is a reliable source of information on the ongoing war between Israel and the Hamas terror group.

    The figure rose slightly to 6.63% among right-wing voters.

    In stark contrast, 73.7% believe IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari to be the most reliable source of information on the conflict.

    The survey by Bar Ilan University along with polling company iPanel examined the consumption of news and information in the first four weeks of the war, since the Hamas terror group’s murderous assault on October 7.

    The poll questioned 505 Israelis who were representative of the Jewish population. No margin of error was given.



  6. by Ponderer on December 15, 2023 4:13 pm

    Link for previous article...


    timesofisrael.com


  7. by Indy! on December 15, 2023 5:51 pm

    The figure rose slightly to 6.63% among right-wing voters.

    "Slightly"... 😂



  8. by oldedude on December 15, 2023 8:42 pm
    Since none of you fucks have ever been in that position, it's easy to talk shit. Mx indy is the worst. I'm not going to reply to your stupid statements.


  9. by Ponderer on December 15, 2023 9:42 pm

    "Since none of you fucks have ever been in that position, it's easy to talk shit. Mx indy is the worst. I'm not going to reply to your stupid statements." -olde dude

    Reply noted.


  10. by Indy! on December 16, 2023 12:42 am

    OD’s posterior must still be hurting from the last butt kicking.


  11. by oldedude on December 16, 2023 4:13 am
    Donna, You are excepted from my first post on the thread. My guess is the team that did the shooting first has LOTS to answer for. And then it goes into the mission, etc. Blue on Blue shoots are always bad. Regardless. There was one kid in the rescue at Entebbe that stood and was shot by IDF. They were all told to lay down and don't move. It's a sad situation. In many cases, the shooter has an extreme possibility of committing suicide. My heart goes out to the families first and always. Then to the team. They'll never forget this millionth of a second to make that decision. and it was wrong. I doubt if we'll ever know what really happened. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't bring back the dead. Maybe they were in Hamas uniforms so they would be killed. We don't know. Only the team knows exactly what happened.

    po and indy just showed once again, they are nothing but useful idiots and mindless puppets for terrorists. Indy still supports the terrorists and has no problem with what they did. po is trying hard to "show" she's not a useful idiot by being a useful idiot in everything she says and does. Both their mockery and hatred of Jews and Israel is evident. While they laugh with glee about more Jews dying, they forget about all the human things that are actually going on. They're no better than the boys of 10/7.

    The woman in the picture is initially bloodied by multiple rape trauma, then is pushed into the car. She was found beaten and raped to death. Good job po and indy!


  12. by Ponderer on December 16, 2023 6:56 am



    Israeli hostages killed in Gaza were holding white flag, official says



    JERUSALEM (Reuters) -Three Israeli hostages killed mistakenly in Gaza by Israeli forces had been holding up a white flag, a military official said on Saturday, citing an initial inquiry into the incident that has shaken the country.

    A soldier saw the hostages emerging tens of metres from Israeli forces on Friday in Shejaiya, an area of intense combat in northern Gaza where Hamas militants operate in civilian attire and use deception tactics, the official said.

    "They're all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it. The soldier feels threatened and opens fire. He declares that they're terrorists. They (the Israeli forces) open fire. Two (hostages) are killed immediately," the official told reporters in a phone briefing.

    The third hostage was wounded and retreated into a nearby building where he called for help in Hebrew, the official said.

    "Immediately the battalion commander issues a ceasefire order, but again there's another burst of fire towards the third figure and he also dies," the official said. "This was against our rules of engagement," he added.

    The military on Friday identified the three hostages killed in Shejaiya, an eastern suburb of Gaza City, as Yotam Haim and Alon Shamriz, abducted from Kibbutz Kfar Aza, and Samer Al-Talalka, abducted from nearby Kibbutz Nir Am.


    aol.com


  13. by oldedude on December 16, 2023 7:27 am
    So you're saying this was intentional. Got it. It just justifies your hatred of IDF and complete support of Hamas. Thanks for reassuring everyone. I expected indy and isle to jump right in and start waiving the Hamas flags.

    I do think it's funny though, you hate the people that tell you the truth, and are too simple to understand who's lying to you.


  14. by Ponderer on December 16, 2023 8:16 am

    "So you're saying this was intentional. Got it." -olde dude

    No I'm not and no you don't.

    I'm saying that it sounds like a soldier or two was either so paranoidally terrified of shirtless men carrying white flags that they went nuts and shot them, or a soldier or two was just so filled with hatred towards Hamas and/or Palestinians that they reflexively shot them, believing them to be whoever they hate so much. Possibly a combination of both.

    But it appears that they were ignoring direct orders to hold their fire when they fired.


    I know I know. The "Fog of War" and all. But I just don't see how this couldn't have been avoided. Those three did not need to die.

    And that is what will haunt whoever fired those shots for the rest of their lives.



  15. by Donna on December 16, 2023 8:44 am

    Not that soldiers who enlisted never make mistakes or just lose it sometimes -- and I don't know the background of the soldier who apparently disobeyed orders and killed those three young men who were full of life before they were kidnapped by Hamas thugs -- but I know that Israel requires all citizens to serve in the IDF, I think for two years, and you've got to figure that a lot of them don't belong on the battlefield. That's why the US military doesn't like the draft. It would much rather have serious soldiers who really want to serve.




  16. by Ponderer on December 16, 2023 8:57 am

    Your problem, olde dude, is that you hate the people that tell you the truth, and are too simple to understand who's lying to you.

    I think it's just really sad.




    You know, it's not all the compulsive Republican liars who lie their way into political offices who I fear.

    It's all the compulsive believers who swallow their horseshit that keep me awake at night.







  17. by oldedude on December 16, 2023 9:02 am
    I'm saying that it sounds like a soldier or two was either so paranoidally terrified of shirtless men carrying white flags that they went nuts and shot them, or a soldier or two was just so filled with hatred towards Hamas and/or Palestinians that they reflexively shot them, believing them to be whoever they hate so much. Possibly a combination of both.

    So you're saying this was intentional. Got it. In the hatred of Hamas they intentionally murdered their own people. Were there any light issues. Remember, this was in the tunnels. Had they just been ambushed. Remember they were in the tunnels. Had they been ambushed by military aged males that were shirtless. Remember, this was in the tunnels. What was their intel brief. Remember they were in the tunnels. Were they on their correct route. Remember they were in the tunnels.

    The closest to your "it sounds like... and I'm an expert on military matters and especially operators" that I have is there's a lot we still don't know. I think IDF is doing a great job of reporting this. They took full accountability of the issue. As quick as they could release the information. There's a whole list of information and action points between the act and reporting to the media. I'm sure Bibi has been read into the classified briefing. They may have been doing this for 18hrs/day for a couple of weeks. I don't know what the fatigue factor was. I don't know if these were actually operators or leg infantry. That's another thing we'll never learn.

    I'm not making excuses for anyone. I've said that before. It was a wrongful shoot. period. I'm just not politicizing it and trying to point fingers. It's a wrongful shoot. Unless you still believe they intentionally murdered their own people.


  18. by Ponderer on December 16, 2023 10:02 am

    "So you're saying this was intentional. Got it." -olde dude

    If you mean that they intend to pull the trigger when they pulled the trigger, then duh! Are you wanting to suggest that their guns just went off by themselves?

    "In the hatred of Hamas they intentionally murdered their own people. -olde dude

    I can't argue with you there. They allowed their hatred of Hamas, and possibly Palestinians as a whole, to overwhelm the consideration that these might have actually been innocent people trying to stay alive with a bunch of guns pointed at them. To the point that they disobeyed direct orders to stand down and shot them anyway. Whoever it was, they have some very serious issues and shouldn't be behind a gun in such circumstances.

    "Were there any light issues. Remember, this was in the tunnels." -olde dude

    I doubt it. I didn't see any mention of whether or not it was daytime or nighttime, but they weren't in any tunnels. They were outside of some buildings if you read it closer.



  19. by oldedude on December 16, 2023 10:45 am
    I doubt it. I didn't see any mention of whether or not it was daytime or nighttime, but they weren't in any tunnels. They were outside of some buildings if you read it closer.

    Okay, so my bet is daytime, with leg Infantry, and a guess is Reserves. That answers a whole bunch of questions. I've also been watching the ground war since it's inception. Hamas has been giving up. They've also faked giving up and drawn the IDF into ambushes. The target should have been identified better. There should have been clearer chain of command. All of these shouldacouldawouldas don't really matter right now.

    I guess you're ready to hang (or behead) the person who did this. I'm not. Purposeful is identifying your target and taking selected shots. That's the definition. I'm not excusing the killing, I haven't since you attacked them. And you still are. Something you DIDN'T do on 10/7 to the terrorists. Well maybe you did have a sentence about it, and then moved on to sheer hatred of the IDF.

    My point has been from the beginning. This is a terrible issue. I grieve for the families of those killed first and foremost. I also grieve for those folks in the unit that did the blue on blue shoot. Whoever pulled the trigger will never recover from this. (I can hear you cheer from here, along with curt, isle, and indy). These incidents are always horrendous. This is what nightmares are made of. True nightmares. The kind you can't wake up from. Eventually, most of the shooters will end their lives out of guilt. I know that's what you all want. Because you can't stand not to blame someone. Anyone. If it's the right person or not.


  20. by oldedude on December 16, 2023 11:42 am
    Since po couldn't show any atrocities by the IDF, this is all they could grab. This is it. A blue on blue horrible incident. No mutilated bodies. The IDF wasn't raping women and murdering children and cutting the throats of infants. The IDF wasn't going through the area and burning down houses and apartments with live people in them. No murdering whole families.

    And yet, they found ONE thing the IDF did that was horrible. I agree with that whole sentence. It was one thing. four people. It was a horrible incident. And that incident eclipses the 1,200 dead Israelis. 10/7 doesn't matter. It wasn't "that bad, right?"

    I guess my perspective isn't the same. And I do mourn for those dead. I grieve for the families of these folks. and all the rest of the friends, families.

    I guess getting so wrapped up in this, it just tells everyone where their priorities are. NOT in the death of human beings, but in politicizing carnage where they want to.


  21. by Indy! on December 16, 2023 5:40 pm

    That reminds me, Odorous - did you ever find that post of mine where I supported the terrorists? Because this is like the 20th thread where you lied about me supporting them.


  22. by oldedude on December 16, 2023 5:46 pm
    I also find it interesting that po and curt didn't even think or GAF about Israel "celebrating" Hanukkah (at least equal to CHIRSTmas in the US. I find that at least cheapening Israeli lives (both arab and jew) by not understanding these are major holy days in these countries. I understand neither of you give a flying f**K about it. curt even dishonors his friends with not understanding how the Jewish "days" and "holy days" are spent. Even though he tried to out "Jewish" me. jjpo is just jjpo.



  23. by Indy! on December 16, 2023 5:49 pm

    Don't think he was trying to "out Jewish you" so much as just educate you the same as we always have to do, Old Dud.


  24. by oldedude on December 16, 2023 5:56 pm
    You lost. bitch.


  25. by oldedude on December 16, 2023 6:26 pm
    So donna and po have no response to this, so they're chickenshit little cumquats that are too confused about their own shit to do anything about it. Little losers.

    You refuse to answer? are you out fucking everyone in the neighborhood? are you out promoting sexual transition to two-year olds? WTF are you too busy to support yourselves?

    You're pathetic.


  26. by oldedude on December 16, 2023 6:41 pm
    That reminds me, Odorous - did you ever find that post of mine where I supported the terrorists? Because this is like the 20th thread where you lied about me supporting them.
    Yes. all the times you didn't say shit as they were murdering people. And there are plenty of instances of that. And then then when Israel moved into Gaza where those who murdered innocent Israelis were to be brought to justice. And you refused to support the Jews. You. Like Saul refused to defend three times before the cock crows (literal). You have your 30 pieces of silver (like judas), and are happy. That's my hope for you. Be happy with your 30 pieces of silver.


  27. by Indy! on December 16, 2023 7:39 pm

    I refused to support Israel and I refused to support Hamas and the Palestinians. Because the world is not black and white and not everything is one good guy and one bad guy like the old westerns you probably watch every night.

    That should make your head explode (again). 😘


  28. by Indy! on December 16, 2023 7:40 pm

    PS: I love cumquats. We had a nice tree out front that produced millions of them until the hurricane broke it in half. There was a massive bee's nest inside the trunk - about the size of one of those tall water heaters.


  29. by Ponderer on December 17, 2023 8:13 am

    "So donna and po have no response to this, so they're chickenshit little cumquats that are too confused about their own shit to do anything about it." -olde dude

    Sorry for the delay getting back to you, od. My Hummy Wand business has gone bonkers. I've actually had to cut back on advertising to slow the orders down a bit. I'm at the limit of production and my physical stamina and they're flying out the door as fast as I can make them. I'm at 139 orders right now. And we had an event to attend most of yesterday.


    "I guess you're ready to hang (or behead) the person who did this." -olde dude

    No. I'm not. I don't believe in capital punishment. I believe that the living hell those individuals will have to deal with for the rest of their lives will be more than punishment enough.



  30. by islander on December 17, 2023 10:18 am

    Ponderer, you do realize that you are wasting your time responding to Od, don’t you?

    The rest of us know exactly where your coming from. Condemning the killing of innocent civilians, no matter which side, does not require supporting the killers on one side or the other.

    I saw something recently that went something like this; You’ve heard the saying, “War is hell” to which the response was, “Your wrong. War is not hell...It’s worse. There are no innocent victims suffering in hell, but in war it’s the innocent victims who suffer the most.”



  31. by oldedude on December 17, 2023 10:55 am
    isle. I'm actually closer to what you just said than po allows me to. In this case I have NEVER said it was any sort of fault of Hamas.

    I've maintained from the beginning that it was a blue on blue horrific, tragic accident. My whole argument has been exactly what you said. Po's whole argument is that the evil state of Israel is to blame.

    Take a look at my posts from start to finish on this. I don't waiver in that. po wants those involved to be beheaded and their bodies pulled through the streets for everyone to see.


  32. by Ponderer on December 17, 2023 1:45 pm

    "So donna and po have no response to this, so they're chickenshit little cumquats that are too confused about their own shit to do anything about it. Little losers.

    You refuse to answer? are you out fucking everyone in the neighborhood? are you out promoting sexual transition to two-year olds? WTF are you too busy to support yourselves?

    You're pathetic." - olde dude


    Donna speaking:

    This is the first time I've been on here today, and right away I find here that apparently I have only a small window of time to respond to you before go off on me (again) with a string of invective. I guess I didn't meet your deadline. I was going to post a thoughtful response on this thread, but now I can see that that would just be a waste of my time.

    I can't deal with your bipolar personality anymore.




  33. by oldedude on December 17, 2023 3:59 pm
    Take a look at the times. It would support my post.


  34. by oldedude on December 17, 2023 4:42 pm
    AND that was in response to the multiple posts from your wife and curt regarding me not posting in the timeline they randomly chose at their whim. And then when I posted that I was with and attending to family stuff and grandbabies, they mocked me. So I found that not only rude, but very clearly not believing that family has any importance in their lives. I think differently.


  35. by Ponderer on December 17, 2023 5:50 pm

    "AND that was in response to the multiple posts from your wife and curt regarding me not posting in the timeline they randomly chose at their whim. And then when I posted that I was with and attending to family stuff and grandbabies, they mocked me. So I found that not only rude, but very clearly not believing that family has any importance in their lives. I think differently." -olde dude.


    I see. I see.

    So you have no compunctions about punishing innocent individuals like Donna for the insults and ass woopin' you got from others. I see. I see. Innocent victims are just yours for the punishing with no sense of justice or what's right if you're of a mind to dish out your hatred at somebody. I see.

    Your care and devotion for the innocent victims in Israel with no such care and concern to the horrors going on in Gaza, which you even challenge is even happening, is making much more sense now. I see. That's fine.

    Thanks!



  36. by Ponderer on December 17, 2023 5:55 pm

    "Ponderer, you do realize that you are wasting your time responding to Od, don’t you?" -Isle

    Oh HECK yeah. But as busy as I've been for the last few weeks with the Hummy Wands, it's a joy to have a little time just to waste.




  37. by oldedude on December 17, 2023 7:51 pm
    Your care and devotion for the innocent victims in Israel with no such care and concern to the horrors going on in Gaza, which you even challenge is even happening, is making much more sense now. I see. That's fine.
    I actually understand what's going on in Gaza, the Golan, and the west bank far better than you do. In Gaza, the horrors going on are self-inflicted by Hamas (and others on different land in Israel). I've actually studied it and seen it. Hamas has refused to support their own people by not providing an infrastructure to support them. There are ZERO air raid/ bomb shelters in the Gaza, yet Hamas has spent trillions of dollars on their tunnels to attack Israel. Is that Israel's fault? Although the area could be self sufficient in cooking oil, they choose not to, getting their oil out of China and Iran. Their water? It's right under their ground. Yet they refuse to build the infrastructure. All the money they have received has gone to 10/7. Their "education system" is from the UN that only teaches all Palestinians to hate Israel, and YOU. They purposefully raise terrorists to die for them.

    I'm not going to repeat what they think about you, because apparently you take that as "me" saying that. So I won't.


  38. by oldedude on December 17, 2023 9:13 pm
    I also find it "fresh" that you mocked me for having time with my kids and grandchildren, and you're "busy" with hummerwands.

    I guess our priorities are different. I believe in being present for these kids and have them celebrate all their holidays with our complete support. I don't have to have their beliefs, and we celebrate them anyway. And especially because people like you despise them. And because now, especially, they're being threatened in school because they're "different." Sound familiar? I keep expecting them to have to wear yellow stars of David on their outer clothes because people hate them so much. For something they have nothing to do with. So think about that next time you feel like you're "discriminated against."


  39. by Ponderer on December 18, 2023 7:12 am

    What a terribly horrible place Earth must be for you, od, with so many people not being you and living the same life you're living. What a caustic and pesky inconvenience it must be for you.

    But I forgive you.



  40. by HatetheSwamp on December 18, 2023 7:20 am

    That's some world-class projection, po. Thanks.


  41. by oldedude on December 18, 2023 9:23 am
    po- I'm actually shocked you didn't use ONE F-bomb! I'm so proud of you. yyyeeesssssssssssss, aren't you sooooooo good! Here's a treat!


    I actually enjoy my life. (You'll find this amazing) YOU'RE not the center of it! And neither is trumpster! WHAT A CONCEPT!


  42. by HatetheSwamp on December 18, 2023 9:28 am

    Maybe po's being treated for Tourette’s. BaEFFINha!


  43. by oldedude on December 18, 2023 9:40 am
    or her meds kicked in.


  44. by Ponderer on December 18, 2023 10:11 am

    od, it's wonderful that you have a family to spend the holidays with. I am happy for you. Sincerely.


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