by Ponderer on October 15, 2023 8:03 am
"My question to you is; All of these people have the ability to leave. They're not unwilfully detained. They're free to do go whenever and wherever they want.
Why do they stay? Why don't they go home?" -olde dude
First of all, bullshit.
"Go home"...?
For most Gazans, over half of which are under the age of 18, Gaza has been their home their entire lives. The only home they have ever known. Where are they supposed to go? A ton of the rest have no home to go back to as they came to Gaza as refugees from other areas they were kicked out of that were taken over by Israel or other areas of the region. Where it is that these people are supposed to just up and go back to?
And with Hamas not taking kindly to losing any human shields and thwarting their exits any way they can, they are totallyfucked. Damned if the do and damned if they don't. It's part of why human rights organizations refer to Gaza as an "open air prison". We didn't make that phrase up.
A huge portion of the population were utterly destitute to begin with. The passport situation there is a nightmare of incompetence and buck passing. They can't get gas even if they have a car. They have no food and no water. They can't just reserve a seat on a plane, take an Uber to the airport, and leave for their summer homes in the Bahamas or something.
They are being ordered to leave northern Gaza, their homes declared a battle zone. And for the most part they are doing it. But with nothing but what they can carry or stuff in a car or donkey cart if they have one. Roads are destroyed and covered in rubble. There's no gas. They don't know where the next Israeli missile will land. But they are leaving without even knowing where they can go if any movement anywhere is even possible at all.
And again, where would they go if they even could? No neighboring countries, or any other countries for that matter, even want them at all. War torn refugee crisis or no.
So you tell me, olde dude. Where should Gazans simply click their heels together three times to go to?
No, Palestinians Can’t Just Leave Gaza
Why don’t they just leave? As Israel’s furious retaliation for last weekend’s Hamas attack devastates large swathes of the Gaza strip, killing hundreds and maiming thousands of Palestinians, it is not unreasonable to wonder why the 2.3 million civilians living in the tiny enclave don’t flee to safer ground. The question will acquire greater urgency in the days ahead, given the high likelihood of a ground invasion by the Israeli Defense Forces — which will mean days, weeks and even months of grueling street-by-street, house-by-house battles.
The short answer to that question is: They can’t. Before I explain why, consider the lay of the land and the situation in which Gazans find themselves right now.
At 139 square miles, the Gaza Strip is approximately the size of Philadelphia, with a third more people. There is very little open space within the enclave where 2 million people can hunker down and wait for the fighting to end. The siege imposed by Israel is designed, in the words of Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, to leave Gaza with “no electricity, no food, no water, no gas - it’s all closed.”
The Israeli Defense Forces say the bombing campaign that is currently reducing entire Gazan neighborhoods to rubble is targeted at known Hamas hideouts, control centers and weapons caches. But the terrorist group deliberately hides out in densely populated areas, using the large numbers of Palestinians there as human shields. Bombs and rockets — and collapsing buildings — make no distinctions between combatants and civilians.
Many Gazans are being forced out of their homes and neighborhoods, but there’s nowhere safe for them to go.
Under normal circumstances, every human instinct would be to get out of the strip. And you’d expect Gazans to take heart from reports of the US and Egypt discussing so-called humanitarian corridors through which they might be able to escape.
But none of the circumstances prevailing in Gaza is normal, and not just because of the current war. Since Hamas took control of the enclave in 2006, a few months after Israel withdrew its forces from the strip, most of the Palestinians living there have essentially been penned into what human-rights groups call the “world’s largest open-air prison.”
Look od, I realize that you don't think that any of this is should be any big deal for Gazans. I'm certain that you feel that if this country was under attack in a war and you were suddenly ordered by our enemy to go back to the land of your ancestors in Northern Slobovia or wherever, you wouldn't think anything of it and you'd just happily walk away from your life to one you know nothing about without a second thought.
But you can't expect anyone else to be as blasé about it as you are and find it as effortless a thing to do as you would, od.
washingtonpost.com
by oldedude on October 15, 2023 8:36 am
Look od, I realize that you don't think that any of this is should be any big deal for Gazans. I'm certain that you feel that if this country was under attack in a war and you were suddenly ordered by our enemy to go back to the land of your ancestors in Northern Slobovia or wherever, you wouldn't think anything of it and you'd just happily walk away from your life to one you know nothing about without a second thought.
Yet again, you completely deflected from your original statements. Every time you get in a corner, this is what you do.
Would I leave? I doubt it. I'd be well armed and would die here. And if it were here, the cowards would be running and you'd be the first out the door. Back to the thread at hand.
First, You're dead fucking wrong about the Israelis "Forcing" them out. The Israelis don't want to kill the local civilians. Hamas wants them to stay so they get murdered. So please get that straight. Neither the Egyptians or Hamas have opened that border to let them out of Gaza. Thousands (who know what's going to happen) are trying to leave. Hamas (and Iran because they're pulling the strings here) are not allowing them out. Including Americans who somehow lived through the terrorist attacks.
You're "open air prison" are named that by the leftist snowflakes. And coined by people that (my guess) have never been to the region, nor to the camps, and are still using the same information as I pointed out earlier is 40 years old. These are the same kind of people that use the excuses of ADD/ADHD/ and autism to immunizations.
As I said before (that you chose to ignore) are these perfect conditions? NO. Are they the preferred conditions? NO. Have I lived in worse conditions? Absolutely. Are there worse conditions in the world? Absolutely. Should they be there? I dunno, what does their house look like now? Is it a rubble? Does it even exist? Do they worry about assholes you like to break into their houses and execute the women because their faces aren't covered?
Why are these people leaving? Maybe because they know what kind of war is going to happen. Maybe they don't want to be there when Hamas picks their house as a place for their terrorists to go. They'll force the women to feed them. Take care of wounds and be human shields (that's a routine).
I know you have no idea WTF this battle will be like. You don't have any concept at all. You look down from your Pink Porcelain Princess Palace and scorn anything you don't understand, and the enemy of your shallow, low info news.
Also, before you talk your shit, please read and comprehend my entire post. I'm really tired of having to debunk things you say I haven't, or have made clear (to any third grader) before. It just makes you look stupid.
by Ponderer on October 16, 2023 7:30 am
Telling people that they must leave their homes because the entire area is going to be carpet bombed.... is not "forcing" anyone to leave anything.
Right.
Okay.
I got it.
Thanks.
👍
🙄
by oldedude on October 16, 2023 10:23 am
And yet their own government is telling them they cannot leave, and holding them inside. That should be considered a correction of a military?
