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Education selectors, pages, etc.
Cutting through the BS and assorted disinformation about transgenderism
By Ponderer
April 16, 2023 10:58 am
Category: Education

(5.0 from 2 votes)
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Donna speaking.

There is so much cringeworthy misinformation and disinformation about transgenderism out there that I just had to speak up. And btw, it doesn't all come from conservatives, although most of it does. Anti-trans politicians and pundits, overwhelmingly Republicans, simply don't know what the hell they're talking about and are using fallacies about transgenderism to boost their political ambitions, while on the other side of the political spectrum many Democratic politicians and pundits are refusing to speak out against transwomen athletes competing with genetic women because of fears of alienating young voters which would likely damage their own political ambitions.

For example, we have this post from Hts:

"No one here, on SS, begrudges you the right to choose, as an adult, to address your issues with gender dysphoria by having surgery. But, for you to suggest that it's appropriate for employees of the community, i.e., PUBLIC school teachers, to undermine the relationship between parent and child, and to encourage children to change gender when they're not old enough to choose their bedtime, is indescribably anti-American."

My wife already did a good job deconstructing the well-promoted fallacy in the second part of Hts's statement. To the first part of what Hts said, something significant happened in the Missouri legislature this week that was brought to the attention of our niece who lives in Missouri.

From the first link at the bottom:

"Missouri’s Attorney General Andrew Bailey just signed an “emergency rule” that for all intents and purposes bans transitioning, flat out. While it is technically not a complete ban, the stipulations of the bill are so complex that only a razor-thin margin of trans people may be safe from it. For an adult to transition in the state of Missouri, they must have had “persistent and intense” gender dysphoria for three years and must have also received 18 months of therapy. The bill also does not allow people with autism or depression to transition under any circumstances.

This is tantamount to the “eradication” of trans people that the GOP recently called for at CPAC. After all, the emergency itself is a catch-22. The rule says that trans people must suffer through three years gender dysphoria and yet be depression free to be eligible to transition. As a practical matter, what’s the difference between the two states of mind? Gender dysphoria is a primary cause of depression. The term “dysphoria” is a literal synonym for depression. It’s like making a rule that says to be eligible to drink water your mouth must be dry for three days but you can’t feel thirsty. One simply does not exist without the other. In fact, depression is likely to worsen the longer that a person experiences dysphoria."


Back when I transitioned (1996-2000) in California, I had to see a therapist just to get hormones. I forget how long I was required to attend therapy. And in order to get SRS, I had to get 2 letters of approval from psychiatrists. I think all of that is reasonable, but it's looking like the Republican House in Missouri has entered the ridiculous zone.

I'd like to make another comment about the importance of intervention for minors who are suffering from gender issues.

When I was a child going through that, I was frightened to bring it up to anyone because I was afraid of the backlash I'd receive from my three brothers as well as my parents. So I suffered in silence. I was so affected by the stigma that I didn't come out to anyone until I was 35, and even then, it was a therapist who I came out to, not a friend or family member.

If I had been a child in a society where such a stigma or taboo didn't exist against transgenders ( or as I prefer, the outdated term "transsexuals", ) I wouldn't have felt the need to wait so long to do anything about it. My parents would have taken me to our family doctor, who would have referred us to psychological professional who was educated in gender issues, perhaps even a psychiatrist, and together we would have decided on the best approach to alleviate my suffering. But I didn't come up during a time where that happened anywhere. Even the psychological and medical communities were largely uneducated on transgenderism, sometimes resorting to shock therapy to "cure" a transgender person. YIKES.

Contrary to what the loudest voices in the anti-trans community are saying, TG children don't decide the course of action, and hormone blockers that are used to delay puberty are only prescribed in the most severe cases of gender dysphoria. SRS (sex reassignment surgery) is almost never performed on minors.

Even as an adult, back around 1996 when I saw my first therapist about my gender issues and thereafter with other psychologists and psychiatrists, none of them ever tried to push me towards SRS. In fact they wanted me to consider less drastic approaches. I'm sure that the vast majority of psychological and psychiatric professionals would use the same approach with minors suffering from gender dysphoria.

Of course, as with everything, there are always going to be outliers who don't follow standards. That happens in education, politics, and just about every part of society. When that happens, we need to go after the violators, not the entire institution they're part of.

Deciding whether or not to introduce a hormone blocker regimen to a prepubescent transgender child is a tough call. On one hand, we don't know the long-term effects. On the other hand, if a TG child goes through normal puberty for their biological sex, transitioning after all of those physical changes have taken place becomes much more difficult. M2F transitioning after puberty, which I have first-hand experience with, involves in addition to an estrogen regimen, hundreds of hours of costly and painful electrolysis in which the electrologist inserts a needle-fine shaft into each hair follicle and gives it an electric shock to kill it, which back when I transitioned I paid for entirely out of pocket. To this day it isn't generally covered by health insurance. I probably spent $10K on electrolysis alone. And even then, it didn't entirely remove my facial and neck hair because of regrowth. In fact I still have to shave. Electrolysis did cut way down on the number of facial hairs I have though, so it was beneficial; it just isn't 100% effective. It can also physically scar your skin because the electric charge can damage your collagen.

If I had been put on hormone blockers before puberty, I wouldn't have had to go through all of that pain and expense to get rid of my facial hair. My body also wouldn't have gone through irreversible physical changes like the broadening of my shoulders and the deepening of my voice. And for those with early onset male pattern baldness, they wouldn't have to go through the psychological pain of seeing their scalp hair disappear and then having to replace it with costly procedures like hair transplants and wigs and other hair systems.

Looking back, I doubt that I would have been prescribed hormone blockers as a child because even though I suffered from gender dysphoria, I was able to function pretty normally as a boy and had a happy childhood despite the secret problem I dealt with every day.

But for other TG children whose gender dysphoria is more pronounced as in the case of Becky Pepper Jackson ( see 2nd link below ), hormone blockers would probably be the best approach. She seems to be what used to be called a "Harry Benjamin 6" after the Johns Hopkins psychiatrist who back in the 60s identified six distinct levels of transgenderism, six being the most severe ( I'm probably a 5 ).

Sheri and I are good friends with such a TG. She knew from since she was a toddler that she was, at least in her mind, a girl. Everything about her besides her sex chromosomes screams female. She transitioned around the age of 20 back in the 70s. Luckily for her, she never developed much facial hair, and she's also naturally small. But that's not the case with most TGs.

If you're interested in the truth about transgenderism, talk to someone who's been through it, preferably someone older like Ponderer or myself who have acquired a wealth of knowledge over the decades about it, not a politician with a personal agenda.


Cited and related links:

  1. themarysue.com
  2. lawandcrime.com

Comments Start Below


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Comments on "Cutting through the BS and assorted disinformation about transgenderism":

  1. by Ponderer on April 16, 2023 11:07 am

    Better'n I coulda said it.


  2. by HatetheSwamp on April 16, 2023 11:26 am

    Thanks for that, pt.

    The existence and explosive growth of GAG is pretty strong evidence that trans grooming is taking place in public schools. If you doubt that trans grooming is happening, follow GAG and Libs of TikTok on Twitter for a month, then get back to me. Grooming takes place.

    The only thing that really interests me here, though, is the politics.

    pt,

    I note regularly on SS that I oppose the extreme laws that are being passed against trans people. And,...

    I have been begging po and you to drop your "fascistic and disgusting" rhetoric, calling concerned parents "Christian theocrats" simply because they want nothing more than to be able to trust that their children are not being recruited and groomed. The two of you, representative of the larger trans community, simply pile on hatespeech.

    On SS, OD and pb have endeavored to bring sensitivity and nuance to the conversation. You have responded by firing a rhetorical AR-15 barrage.

    In nearly every post, I make it clear that I don't oppose trans people. What I do is defend the rights of mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps to have clear involvement in the education of their children...

    ...and you've regularly responded with "Christian theocrats" and charges of fascism.

    If you really care about trans youth, why not stop screaming and begin by walking softly.

    This is all about politics for me.

    In the wake of Covid, I'm pretty sure that appealing to the authority of Big Brother isn't going to help you.


  3. by Ponderer on April 16, 2023 11:47 am

    "I note regularly on SS that I oppose the extreme laws that are being passed against trans people." -Hate

    There literally hasn't been a single solitary one of these many dozens of Republican anti-trans laws that wasn't extreme you willfully blind moron.



    "...and you've regularly responded with "Christian theocrats" and charges of fascism." -Hate

    Well...


  4. by islander on April 16, 2023 11:51 am

    Well said, Donna.


  5. by HatetheSwamp on April 16, 2023 11:56 am

    You're a liar, po.

    In a nation where it's, now, relatively unlikely that the trans agenda is going to be foisted, it'll be to your benefit to stifle the hate as best you can.

    Lying and name-calling, as OD and pb have been saying, will not be a winning political strategy for y'nes. That is, if you can practice restraint.


  6. by Ponderer on April 16, 2023 1:38 pm

    Donna here. Thanks y'all.

    "The existence and explosive growth of GAG is pretty strong evidence that trans grooming is taking place in public schools. If you doubt that trans grooming is happening, follow GAG and Libs of TikTok on Twitter for a month, then get back to me. Grooming takes place." - Hts

    You can't "groom" someone into becoming L, G, B, or T. It just doesn't work like that. It's something we are.

    If you're complaining about adults in positions of authority telling children they might be L G B or T or something along those lines, then like I said in my rant, I would encourage parents to complain to the school administration about that teacher. I've been saying that all along.


  7. by Hunter28 on April 16, 2023 2:32 pm

    Donna/Ponderer:

    Thank you for your narrative. I realize you have faced difficulties, and I am not interested in causing pain. I’m sure any true Christians in this forum feel the same.

    There are a lot of things I could respond to. But I’ll focus on one area that a lot of liberal and moderate trans skeptics are concerned about -- unintended consequences.

    I appreciate your comments about how transitioning earlier, pre-puberty, might have made life easier post-transition. However, one thing that all conservatives and quite a few liberals such as myself are concerned about are kids who go ahead and make life-altering non-reversible changes that they later regret. For example, kids who undergo puberty blockers (which can cause infertility later in life), hormone therapy or surgery.

    The response I’ve heard from some trans advocates is that very few kids who transition regret the decision. I’m skeptical. Self-reporting is dubious, since you’re only likely to hear from people who are happy with the decision. Once you’re invested in a life-altering decision like this, it’s difficult to express regret. You own it, and it’s humiliating to have to admit that kind of mistake. Also, do clinics and doctors have any financial incentive or motivation to document people who regret their decisions? Can you trust their numbers? Have there been any studies that have systematically attempted to quantify these results?

    I’m sure that a lot of people are generally happy with the results. But how many aren’t? I don’t think we have any reliable data.

    I heard this issue addressed in an interview with Masha Gessen during a New Yorker Political Scene podcast on the Ukraine War (March 13, 2023). Gessen is a transgender reporter covering the war. The podcast was fine, until Gessen discussed the topic of detransitioning and glibly stated that, sure, some people may regret their decision to surgically transition, but people regret lots of things, like taking out student loans they can’t afford.

    Really, we’re going to equate student loan debt with non-reversible surgery? These are the kind of insensitive and tone-deaf comments that backfire and animate people like our right-wing friends in this forum.

    From the days of the Salem Witch Trials to the Tik-Tok Challenge, we have seen young people get caught up in every type of hysteria (pardon the gendered word). Social media is changing how we think and leads many girls to hate their bodies. How many kids who are exploring trans ideation are really trans, how many are gay but can’t come to terms with it, how many are going through a phase? I don’t think we know. Time is the best answer to all of these questions. There's a reason France and Sweden are calling for a time-out.

    So, yes, I understand why in hindsight some trans folk wish they had the opportunity to transition earlier in life. And maybe at some point we’ll have a consensus on the best approach. But we don’t at this time. I don’t know what the answer is. My opinion is the best thing to do is slow down and pause most early medical transitions and hormone therapy until we have more information and peer-reviewed studies.

    Our species has been around for 300,000 years. For most of that time, nobody gave any thought to gender. Biological sex was the only factor that mattered. The penis crowd does one thing, vagina folk something else. With any luck, our species will survive another 300,000 years. Surely, we can pause and take a few years to look at these questions and understand the consequences of these actions.

    newyorker.com


  8. by oldedude on April 16, 2023 4:30 pm
    Donna- Like I said earlier. are there groomers out there? Sure. Does it represent "a percentage" If it does, I don't think it's much. Groomers want 1. easy access to their chosen gender type. Like the kid in Louden County VA that's a serial rapist (at least 2 schools and several women). He "claimed" he was trans in order to gain access to his victims (women). I will agree wholeheartedly that he played the system. Groomers will find a way to stalk their prey. The issue I have with not telling parents is those groomers are now given free rein to abuse kids. Are these trans folks? No. They are pedophiles. I would pull my child from any school that did not allow an open communication between parent<=>child<=>school (there should be arrows between all three of those entities).


  9. by Ponderer on April 17, 2023 11:04 am

    Hunter, I appreciate your open mindedness on this issue. Thank you. But you could use a little enlightenment on some of the things you are concerned about.

    I can understand how society could be so shocked about the issue of children transitioning medically. The whole subject of transsexuality (Sorry, I am Old School and I have always found this term far more descriptive and specific than the broadly vague label of "trans" or "transgender") is relatively new to them. Apart from the exceedingly rare cases like Christine Jorgensen, it was a totally unheard of thing when I was young. And only in my lifetime has is gotten to the place it is now. A place of acceptance and ubiquity that I never imagined I would ever live to see when I was young.

    When I was about ten, I had no idea what I was or what these feelings made me, and there was absolutely no one I could turn to for help. There is simply no way to accurately express the loneliness and sense of impending, helpless doom felt by a child who suffers with gender dysphoria. There is no common ground upon which to construct anything like an equitable comparison anyone else might understand. There really is nothing else in the human condition it could be compared to. Especially when you add the societal component into it.

    Searching for answers, I discovered the word "Transsexual" in a glossary of a biology book we had at home. It said, "A transsexual is a person who intensely believes themselves to be a member of the opposite sex they were born as, and may even take steps to live and appear more like the sex they feel themselves to be."

    Wow. I sat there staring at that sentence for a very long time. Everything coalesced for me that day. I knew at least the name for what my feelings made me. But years later, still all I could find even in a university library was three books on the subject, and two of them were autobiographies (Yeah I read all three and thank GOD no Republicans had them censored and pulled from the shelves). There was no internet. No support groups. No hotlines to call. There wasn't even anyone I could talk to to steer me towards learning more. It was still an invisible issue to the public. It wasn't until I was 36 that I even began seriously to transition.

    But please rest assured... Regardless of the public's ignorance of the issue, it has been intensely studied and medically researched with tremendous attention since the sixties. It just took me a while to find any of it on my own back then. It was a desperately difficult subject to study. There weren't lines of transsexuals queued up to be research subjects. Back then, many like me were too terrified to even check a box on an anonymous form. But doctors and psychiatrists were working tirelessly on this subject, even regarding children. And they have been to this day.

    Back then, they didn't even know how many people suffered with gender dysphoria yet. When I started transition, the best numbers that research could come up with suggested that the number of transsexuals who suffered from GD as I did was around one in forty thousand! And again, when I started out, the term transsexual specifically applied to me and only those like me. The term transgender was just making its way into the community as I was attending my first transsexual support group meetings in the mid 90's. The letters LGBTQ hadn't even been melded all together yet.


    And this is where I personally believe a lot of the problems today have stemmed from. The term transgender started to take over and push the term transsexual out. I think because people didn't like the fact that it contained the word "sex". And also because there were others in the gender spectrum who suddenly wanted to be included in the discourse too, even though they didn't want to change their sex. But the problem was that "transgender" became an umbrella term that included all manner of folk from the entire spectrum of gender identity and expression. Now I and Donna and other transsexuals got lumped in with transvestites and gender queers and inter-sexed people, and now "non-binary" people who all have completely different relationships to the subject of gender identity than we do. We were all now supposedly "transgender" now. Which meant that if you told someone you were transgender, that person still had no clue about where you fit on the spectrum at all. And that has only gotten worse since the turn of the century with more and more derivations under the umbrella.

    Now, any child who likes to dress like the opposite gender, or play around with gender norms, but has no inner convictions about actually being the other gender, are labeled as transgender. Exactly the same way that a child on the Benjamin Scale who rates as a Level 6 Transsexual is nowadays.

    For one "trans" child, transitioning with medical help would certainly be a disaster and it shouldn't be available to them. While a "trans" child who is a Type 6 Transsexual and for whom the subject of their gender is a cemented reality and will never under any attempts of any therapy ever be able to detach from such a conviction, would certainly benefit greatly from transitioning as early as possible.

    So nowadays there is no way to accurately or easily separate these two children in the public discourse. And given how conservatives are so totally incapable of understanding nuance of any kind, they are happy to become apoplectic when fed the lie that children who simply like playing dress-up are being forced by anyone to take hormones or get surgery... AGAIN, A THING THAT IS NOT HAPPENING!

    Whether or not a child should receive gender reassignment medications or surgery should be determined on a per-case basis. And it has been! No child is showing up at a surgeon's office with their parents in tow saying, "I'm TRANS! So give me hormones and start cutting stuff off!". And if they are and the surgeon obliges them, the entire hospital should be shut down and that surgeon arrested.

    Hormone therapy and Sexual Reassignment Surgery are not available on demand. No matter how much the MAGA Hats desperately want you to believe they are.

    I would be amazed if the number of elementary school children, who after a few years of therapy and gaining knowledge of the subject, and of themselves, and with their parent's and doctors' permission, receive puberty blockers is greater than a few dozen per year. And if I'm wrong and it is a greater number than that, then I am extremely happy that so many transsexual children are getting the chance at life that I and Donna never got.

    But the hair-on-fire hysteria of the right about all these kids who are supposedly acting on fleeting whims, or are being "groomed" by teachers, or are reacting to peer pressure to medically transition are complete and total malarkey. It's not happening. And the continued spreading of such heinously mendacious misinformation has no place being used to keep desperately needed treatment from children who desperately need it.

    So I don't give a flying rat's ass about what any pig-ignorant assortment of transphobic MAGA-hatted gays and lesbians that HtS deifies as experts have to say about it.

    Do some patients still maybe manage somehow to slip through the cracks and receive treatments that weren't psychologically correct for them and they may later regret? Yes, I am sure it happens. I know it happens. Doctors and psychologists aren't infallible and no treatment is 100% effective. But I'm sure that it happens in numbers that are far too low to justify stopping all such treatment to children for whom it would be a life saver. Did you know that over 10,000 people a year die from taking the recommended dosage of aspirin? Should we stop selling aspirin then?

    You say we should slow down. Please don't be fooled into swallowing the fantasies that the right is trying to foment about a tsunami of childhood transitions befalling us. The entire field of study has been carefully methodical over the decades in its procedures and actions regarding children and adults. It's only because this work has been going on in the background without much of any public interest up until recently that it seems like it has suddenly exploded onto the scene. Thanks of course to the destructive help of the sociopathic, bigoted, paranoid, propaganda-gullible right.

    It kind of reminds me of what the right is trying to do with Mifepristone. The FDA studied it for an extremely long time using dozens of experts and holding it to rigorous standards and it has been working safely for two decades. But one lone MAGA judge wants to ignore all that and foist his own vast pig-ignorance of the thing onto the American public about it being unsafe enough to pull from the shelves, and a lot of other stupid MAGA Hats are buying his bullshit because of their own religious beliefs about abortion.


  10. by Ponderer on April 17, 2023 11:13 am

    "Our species has been around for 300,000 years. For most of that time, nobody gave any thought to gender. " -Hunter

    I forgot to enlighten you on that.

    There have been gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals and others for whom the subject of gender certainly has been around. There have always been transsexuals and homosexuals throughout the entirety of human existence. And very likely in the same proportions that there are now.

    It's just that back in those days there weren't a lot of LGBTQ people who liked being burnt at the stake or tied to a rock and thrown into a moat or hung in the public square.


  11. by Curt_Anderson on April 17, 2023 11:33 am
    Ponderer,
    I appreciate the interesting and sincere dialogue that you and Hunter28 are having. Please don't think I am being impertinent with the question I am about to ask.

    Some of the definitions of gender dysphoria I have read talk about the feeling of discomfort in people whose gender identity differs from their sex assigned at birth.

    I don't subscribe to the traditional roles of males and females. Take me for instance: this weekend I used macho tools and built a pergola and last night I got in touch with my feminine side and baked a batch of cookies.

    To me what really defines my male identity is my lifelong sexual attraction to females. I have a handy indicator between my legs that confirms this. So my question is what causes a person to feel they have been biologically assigned the wrong gender rather than feeling they are gay?




  12. by islander on April 17, 2023 11:41 am

    Wikipedia has an informative article on transgender history:

    "Transgender people (including non-binary and third gender people) have existed in cultures worldwide since ancient times. The modern terms and meanings of "transgender", "gender", "gender identity", and "gender role" only emerged in the 1950s and 1960s.[1][2][3] As a result, opinions vary on how to categorize historical accounts of gender-variant people and identities."
    en.wikipedia.org


  13. by HatetheSwamp on April 17, 2023 11:43 am

    po,

    Thanks for that. I'm merely charting the politics of the issue.

    Speaking of which:

    But the hair-on-fire hysteria of the right about all these kids who are supposedly acting on fleeting whims, or are being "groomed" by teachers, or are reacting to peer pressure to medically transition are complete and total malarkey.

    You expose yourself to nothing that goes on in the right-wing media. Your statement came from nowhere but your own prejudice and hate. No one that I follow on the right spreads your message of hate. You are, faceless and hatefully adding fuel to the fire. As long as you spew hate against mummies and daddies you're hurting yourself.

    I'll repeat what I've been saying since this current conversation began here a month-ish ago.

    The trans community is going to have to come up with rhetoric that is something other than hate.

    You know better than I that, as the temperature rises, you are the one of the two of us likely to experience physical harm.


  14. by Ponderer on April 17, 2023 12:02 pm

    Like I mentioned before, Curt, there just isn't any really good way to explain it so you or anyone else might understand. It's something I knew when I was very young. It wasn't that I liked playing with dolls or dressing like a girl or wanted to be a mommy when I grew up. It was just a horrific realization that I had staring me right in the mirror that my body did not fit who I believed myself to be. That was always there no matter what was taken out of the picture.

    Little kids don't start out really knowing all the societal differences between the sexes. All they knew was that they kept getting put into a line they knew they don't belong in. They were made (back then at least) to play with certain toys and have certain friends. They're urged to have certain interests. And as they grow older, they do become more and more aware of all the intricate differences between the sexes and what is expected of them, which only continually widens the gap that separates them from where they know they belong.

    It is no wonder to me that so many transsexual youths commit suicide. It's a horrific inner torture that only increases with time as you watch in helpless horror as what you want gets further and further away from you.

    I had tried throughout my life all manner of ways of dealing with my transsexuality. I even tried being gay if it would help stop the torture. But here's something I learned pretty quickly: Two men in bed together has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with being female. And none of this was about having sex with anyone anyways. I even got married and thought that would "cure" me. But after eight years of successful marriage, the horror never left me for a day. I was finally at a point where I couldn't stand it or the lying and deceit anymore. I was at a point where I believed that the only two things I hadn't tried yet to fix my situation was actually coming out and transitioning... or suicide.

    It was a big cold hard slap in the face that night when I realized that I was sitting there actually weighing those as my only choices, looking back and forth at them and thinking, "Hmmmmm.............". I decided right then that transitioning might be the best one to try first.

    Many in my position can't bring themselves to make the same choice I did and chose what for them seems to be the easier option.


  15. by islander on April 17, 2023 12:18 pm

    This is the kind of thread that is a good example of the kind of sincere, honest, and rational dialogue that I'd like to see more of here !

    Thank you Donna, Ponderer, Hunter and Curt 👍


  16. by oldedude on April 17, 2023 2:22 pm
    RE: #14.
    Was that Donna or Po?

    This is, in the past month or so been one of the things I have said. 1. I recognize and have posted on the suicide rate among the community. 2. Middle schools could start opening up to the curriculum, and progress in HS. 3. I have an issue teaching this in elementary school. 4. I also have a issue for a district, school or whatever to refuse to tell the parents what is going on in the school.* Attached is a list of school districts by state that have Transgender/Gender Nonconforming Policies that openly state that district personnel can or should keep a student’s transgender status hidden from parents. If it says XYZ School District, then it's a district policy.


    *Do I believe there will be groomers? Yes. Do I think they will be trans? NO. In elementary school, they're pedophiles. We already see groomers in schools, churches, civic organizations, etc. If the districts support the policy of not telling parents, this makes it harder for the child to report grooming and sexual assault. I'm not convinced the trans community would be a problem.
    defendinged.org


  17. by Ponderer on April 17, 2023 2:37 pm

    Donna here. The previous comment was Ponderer's.

    "Do I believe there will be groomers? Yes. Do I think they will be trans? NO. In elementary school, they're pedophiles. We already see groomers in schools, churches, civic organizations, etc. If the districts support the policy of not telling parents, this makes it harder for the child to report grooming and sexual assault. I'm not convinced the trans community would be a problem." - olde dude

    Thank you, od.

    Whether or not to notify parents or guardians IMO shouldn't be a one size fits all policy, because, as someone else here pointed out, it could put the minor in danger. I used to know a transwoman whose father told her that if she ever came to his house dressed as a woman, he would shoot her. She said that he owned guns and was dead serious. How sad.

    Btw, I appreciate the effort you make trying to understand what others are saying and your usually thoughtful responses.







  18. by Ponderer on April 17, 2023 3:35 pm

    "To me what really defines my male identity is my lifelong sexual attraction to females. I have a handy indicator between my legs that confirms this." - Curt

    Your male identity has nothing to do with your sexual preference because as you know, gay men don't share your sexual preference but they're still as male as your are, well, except for maybe the effeminate ones, who may have some kind of gender thing going on.

    Btw, in the transsexual community, when we talk about gender, we're talking about what's going on inside the brain, and when we talk about sex, we're talking about ones physical sex.

    "So my question is what causes a person to feel they have been biologically assigned the wrong gender rather than feeling they are gay?" - Curt

    Transsexualism is about sexual identity - which gender you see yourself as, not physically but mentally - or simply an overwhelming desire to be the other sex. Gay is about sexual preference - which sex you're sexually attracted to. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

    What causes that feeling? I don't know. What causes some people to like olives? I can't stand them. Why? IDK. I just accept that many (most?) people like them.

    Speaking for myself, I never felt like I was assigned the wrong gender. But I had an overwhelming desire to be a girl since I was about 7. Why? I dunno. That's why I don't like the term transgender for myself. My gender didn't trans (go across); it's always been whatever it is. I'm a transsexual, meaning that other than my sex chromosomes, I changed my physical sex. If I hadn't transitioned, I don't think I'd be alive today, or at the very least I'd be extremely depressed.

    A good friend of mine who I mentioned earlier, M2F transsexual, says that she's always felt like a girl. It isn't her feminine "side"; she's naturally very womanly in all respects all of the time. I can't relate with her on that, but I don't need to understand why or what caused her to be who she is to accept her for who she is and to see that she made the right decision to transition.

    A few months ago, my mom surprised me when she said that she was glad I transitioned. She can see that I'm much happier as a woman than I was as a man. Neither she nor my dad always felt that way, though. It took them a while, years, but they eventually came around. And btw, they were/are conservative Republican Christians.

    I was able to get through my youth as a boy without psychological intervention, hormone blockers or surgery, but I will continue to help create a world, or at least a country where young transsexuals who are having a difficult time of it, most of whom are probably Harry Benjamin 6's, can get the help and support they need to be happy with who they are, inside and out, whatever it takes.


  19. by Ponderer on April 17, 2023 3:37 pm

    And thank you, islander! I enjoy reading your comments, too.



  20. by Ponderer on April 17, 2023 3:38 pm

    The last 2 posts are mine (Donna's).


  21. by Ponderer on April 21, 2023 9:08 am

    This thread was forced off the main page, so I'm bumping it to the top because I spent some time composing that last long comment. - Donna


  22. by islander on April 21, 2023 12:24 pm

    Like I said, "This is the kind of thread that is a good example of the kind of sincere, honest, and rational dialogue that I'd like to see more of here" so I'll be happy to keep it from disappearing.Hopefully we'll see some more honest and thoughtful dialogue.

    So here we go...Bump...!!


  23. by HatetheSwamp on April 21, 2023 1:16 pm

    True.

    This issue can certainly be addressed more constructively and sensitively by both sides.


  24. by islander on April 22, 2023 7:46 am

    Not all choices are black or white and this transgenderism question without a doubt is one of them...For example:

    Who gets to decide if Siamese twins should be separated and at what age?

    Family and doctors? Or the state?

    It could be a life or death choice since there is a chance that one or both could die during the surgery, however if it is to be done, it is much safer and the chances for survival are much better the sooner it is done.

    Should we have to wait until the twins are old enough to be reasonably certain they even want to be separated in case the twins regret it later...or if one twin died during the surgery might a surviving twin suffer lifelong survivors guilt?

    Should a child with gender dysphoria be treated? What about before the onset of puberty which would, without a doubt, be the best option for such a child?

    

What if as an adult, the person feels they made a mistake? Maybe wishing they had been able to have the surgery earlier or wishing they hadn't had it done at all?

    Who should have the ultimate right and responsibility to make such a decision?

    Should it be the family and their doctors?

    Or should it be the state or federal government?

    I support the family and their doctors since I know that I am not qualified to make that decision any more than are any of our legislators. Also, the choice does not involve me or affect me in any way. It only affects those directly involved. 

The family and their doctors are, in my mind, the most qualified to make such decisions, and the family, which of course includes the child, are the ones who are and will be directly affected by the decision, not you or me.

    yahoo.com


  25. by HatetheSwamp on April 22, 2023 8:12 am

    Well said, isle.

    The problem that I see...mostly...is that woke LGBTers want their position to be foisted on the rest of the nation. Hence, pt's and po's unrepented of suggestion on all people who promote legislation to insure that mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps have a right to be involved and informed in the education of their children. To the trans community, those legislative proposals are the "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrats."

    Ultimately, this is a political issue.

    I see the argument that I saw over Covid. One side wants Big Brother to impose its way. T'other screams for the rights of the individual.

    It's a deep-seated problem. Both sides are at fault.


  26. by islander on April 22, 2023 10:57 am

    If anybody wants to engage in a sincere and reasonable discussion about the trans agenda, click the link for a clear explanation of exactly what it is.
    transequality.org


  27. by HatetheSwamp on April 22, 2023 12:00 pm

    Sadly, my phone wouldn't let me open it. What do I look for on the website?


  28. by islander on April 22, 2023 1:30 pm

    Here's a summary of the syllabus from the site and the things it covers...Apparently You'll need to use your laptop, tablet, desktop or borrow somebody's to read it, and you do need to read it.

    "A TRANSGENDER LOCAL AGENDA:

    Throughout the US, increasing numbers of transgender people are
    coming out and trying to live safe and productive lives, in not only urban
    but also rural and suburban areas. Too often, they face discrimination,
    harassment and violence, resulting in unemployment, homelessness, and
    negative health outcomes. The policies in this agenda have the potential to
    dramatically improve people’s lives, in addition to being simply matters of
    good government. Some cities and counties are more populous and provide
    more social services and regulation of local entities, while others are smaller and/or do not have some of these powers, thus the recommended actions
    included here are not applicable to all cities and counties
    ."

    The High priority items it covers;

    NON-DISCRIMINATION GENERALLY

    ADDRESSING EMPLOYMENT BEYOND WRITTEN NON-DISCRIMINATION POLICIES

    ADDRESSING HOUSING BEYOND WRITTEN NON-DISCRIMINATION POLICIES

    HEALTH

    IDENTITY DOCUMENTS AND PRIVACY

    SCHOOLS AND YOUTH

    CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM

    OTHER ACTIONS





  29. by HatetheSwamp on April 23, 2023 4:03 am

    isle,

    I found this stuff on the website. This organization seems to be the rough equivalent of Gays Against Groomers, which is LGBT and has a radically different perspective. See link.

    From the GAG website:

    "The overwhelming majority of gay people are against what the community has transformed into, and we do not accept the political movement pushing their agenda in our name."

    The truth is that that there's an active and growing anti-trans political movement within the LGBT community itself. My sense, isle, is that you and I may have to sit this one out.

    You probably noticed that I posted a video of wide-openly prominent gay Chadwick Moore and Tucker from this past Friday. (See second link.) They were bustin their guts in joyful laughter, over their belief that being "queer" is a myth as is the + in LGBTQIA+ is pure silliness...and Moore advocating for the addition of an S to the LGBTQIA soup recipe.

    So, there's GAG and the increasingly assertive non-woke LGB community to fold into the discussion of what "the trans political agenda" is.

    I appreciate you finding the transequality.org material for us. It certainly should be considered. It is, clearly, however, only part of the equation. We shouldn't, for a moment, think otherwise.

    Still, let's agree that some of the issues you listed are not controversial, i.e., NONDISCRIMINATION, EMPLOYMENT. And, don't presume that the transequality.org gang is the only LGBT voice on these issues.
    gaysagainstgroomers.com
    selectsmart.com


  30. by islander on April 23, 2023 4:54 am

    Hate ~

    I went to the site you provided and the opening statement was, ”Gays Against Groomers is a 501(c)4 organization of gay people who oppose the recent trend of indoctrinating, sexualizing and medicalizing children under the guise of “LGBTQIA+”

    Everybody would be against indoctrinating, sexualizing and medicalizing children for any reason, but that’s not the trans agenda. 

To equate it with that is sick and dishonest.

    Gag is a dishonest far right propaganda site set up to denigrate and slur transgenders. There is no “recent trend” to coax children into becoming gay or transgender. It’s a sick idea that only sick individuals would desire or attempt to engage in.

    You can learn about GAG by clicking on the link.
    en.wikipedia.org


  31. by HatetheSwamp on April 23, 2023 5:48 am

    Yeah, isle. I saw that Wikipedia slur. Think about this unsubstantiated claim: "Gays Against Groomers (GAG) is an American far-right anti-LGBT organization..." Can you imagine those words being strung together, heck, even two years ago!!!?

    What the woke crowd does is pretend that any opinion that ain't its own be illegitimate. Did you note how that worked with the Bud Light attempt to be "inclusive" by excluding every un-woke, fratty, person in its customer base? Dilly! Dilly!

    Here's how you and I are different: I understand that GAG is controversial. You, presumably because you agree, can't tell that transequality.org is also controversial and that there are other viewpoints among LGBT people.

    I would NEVER suggest that GAG is the only voice within the LGBT community on trans issues. You just claimed that it's illegitimate. I'm pretty sure that it ain't.

    That's why I included the Chadwick Moore video in that post. (See link. Baha baha!) Try telling me that Moore is straight. Please. The truth is that what the woke want to claim is LGBT orthodoxy is, really, probably fringe.

    My best judgment is that, despite what progressive straights want to believe GAG's assertion, "The overwhelming majority of gay people are against what the community has transformed into, and we do not accept the political movement pushing their agenda in our name," is probably true.

    At the very least, transequality.org doesn't represent the view of all people in the LGBT community.

    Agree?

    View Video


  32. by oldedude on April 23, 2023 6:09 am
    So my question is; why would it be controversial for the LGBTQ+ community be against grooming? As we know it now, by far most of the groomers are either pedophiles or straight. It's the PROCESS of grooming I'm against.

    As far as teachers, there's only been one teacher that has groomed or called for violence against the students. I think the issue needs to be investigated, but it sounds more like the students were being shts and she was tired of it. But she said it, so there's that. And in today's world, that needs to be investigated.

    SO, I haven't seen evidence of any trans grooming children. Have there been gays? Yes. AND they are a very small part of groomer victims (usually pedophiles and straight).
    nypost.com


  33. by islander on April 23, 2023 6:28 am

    Hate wrote: ”My best judgment is that, despite what progressive straights want to believe GAG's assertion, "The overwhelming majority of gay people are against what the community has transformed into, and we do not accept the political movement pushing their agenda in our name," is probably true.”

    That’s “Your best Judgement” ? You actually think the overwhelming majority of gay people do not accept the Transgender agenda which is basically the same as their own.

    Ok...Do “you” accept the Transgender agenda?

    This is what they are trying to achieve:

    ”Throughout the US, increasing numbers of transgender people are coming out and trying to live safe and productive lives, in not only urban but also rural and suburban areas. Too often, they face discrimination, harassment and violence, resulting in unemployment, homelessness, and negative health outcomes. The policies in this agenda have the potential to dramatically improve people’s lives, in addition to being simply matters of good government.”



  34. by HatetheSwamp on April 23, 2023 7:00 am

    That’s “Your best Judgement” ? You actually think the overwhelming majority of gay people do not accept the Transgender agenda which is basically the same as their own.

    I absolutely do think that the overwhelming majority of gay people don't accept the transequality.org agenda.

    From what I can tell, the majority of LGBTs oppose biological males...people who have nuts...using the same biffies and locker rooms as biological females. I'm certain that most LGBT people oppose people with a Y chromosome competing in athletic events against biological females. And, I'm certain that most gays oppose the woke trans political agenda in uncompromisingly fighting against efforts of mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps to being fully involved in their kiddies' public school education...

    ...without any doubt.

    I can't imagine that you really don't know that.

    Ok...Do “you” accept the Transgender agenda?

    The WOKE Transgender agenda? Absolutely, as po'd say, EFFIN not!!!!!

    I've posted many times about Caitlyn Jenner's role at Fox News. Jenner was, at one time, employed as a Fox News contributor. He backed away when he announced his candidacy for governor of California but is still a regular.

    My confident sense is that most non-woke LGBT people accept that.

    You, and all woke people, especially white progressive wokesters, need to come to grips with the reality that you don't run the only game in town.


  35. by islander on April 23, 2023 7:15 am

    So, Hate, you actually believe that the transgender’s agenda is to convince little boys to think they are little girls and little girls to think they are little boys (grooming)? Why do you think they would want to do that and make it their agenda? What do you think they could possibly gain by doing that...I’m trying to figure out how your mind can justify your belief, a concept that seems to be totally irrational to me.

    If, however, you’d prefer to to talk about transgenders competing in sports, I’m in complete agreement with Donna and Ponderer.


  36. by HatetheSwamp on April 23, 2023 7:39 am

    So, Hate, you actually believe that the transgender’s agenda is to convince little boys to think they are little girls and little girls to think they are little boys (grooming)?

    Huh. No. Of course not!

    If, however, you’d prefer to to talk about transgenders competing in sports, I’m in complete agreement with Donna and Ponderer.

    I suspect you are attempting to create a strawman.

    Right. pt and po have been clear about sports. I don't know how they, uh, stand, on people with peepees emptying their bladders in the girls' restroom.

    And, I could not possibly disagree more with their joint definition of all legislative remedies proposed on behalf of mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps concerned about what's going on in public schools as the work of "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrats."

    From GAG yesterday, "If “gender affirming” surgeries aren’t being performed on children, then what is the problem if states ban them?"

    Hmmmmm?


  37. by islander on April 23, 2023 8:02 am

    When I asked if you accepted the transgender agenda, Hate wrote:
    ”The WOKE Transgender agenda? Absolutely, as po'd say, EFFIN not!!!!!

    When words are imprecise so to is thought which is why your opinions are so imprecise. “Woke” now has an imprecise meaning. It’s now almost always used in rage inducing statements. It’s original meaning has been hijacked by extremists and is used as a Pejorative and toxic adjective.

    The problem you have regarding restrooms and changing rooms requires nothing more than what we have in unisex sometimes called family restrooms and that is lockable stalls for privacy.

    You’ve never had any children so you don’t know how uncomfortable it can be as a father to bring your little girl into either a men’s or lady’s restroom. In many respects our cultural attitudes could probably use some improvements.


  38. by HatetheSwamp on April 23, 2023 8:11 am

    I don't know one woman who'd be pleased with a "person with a weewee" joined them in the ladies' at the local Wal-Mart.


  39. by islander on April 23, 2023 8:20 am
    Bump...


  40. by HatetheSwamp on April 23, 2023 8:32 am

    Okay. I'll bite...

    ...huh.


  41. by Ponderer on April 23, 2023 3:03 pm

    Donna speaking.

    What do you believe goes on in women's restroom's, Hts? Do you think people go around exposing their genitals? How would you go about enforcing that?

    A locker room is a totally different story since one usually strips down there. I've been in one one's locker room since my SRS in 2000. I stripped down along side other women there. Didn't encounter any problems.





  42. by Ponderer on April 23, 2023 3:05 pm

    I meant to say "I've been in one women's locker room since my SRS in 2000."



  43. by HatetheSwamp on April 24, 2023 3:22 am

    pt,

    Good golly Miss Molly! I think, by now, I've posted that I'm only following the politics of the trans agenda almost as often as I've repeated that I think Trump is despicable.

    Here's what I know about women's restrooms:

    Many non progressive white woke people don't want people with nuts using women's restrooms. Do you think I'm wrong about that?

    I can guaran-d@ang-tee you that, if the Wal-Mart in town announces a trans-friendly biffy policy and the the Target retains un-woke biffies, it'll be Bud Light and Coors all over again.

    I'm certain that my organic woman wife wouldn't darken the door of that Wal-Mart ever again...and, it's not about the biffies. It's about woke values. Target's parking lot will be packed!

    Do you doubt me? Do you really not understand this?

    Gay conservative anti-woke "activist" Chadwick Moore openly and gleefully mocked LGBTQIA+ "+" plus people and Queers on Tucker two days ago because, suddenly, what the un-woke want matters. You've lost hegemony.

    The politics of this have shifted in a way that may be unprecedented in American history. And, I have to say that I warned po and you. You insisted on spewing hate against the people who, by the effin millions, have who dumped Bud Light, because you think you're clever calling them Christian theocrats...

    ...maybe they are. But, you're now going to have to deal with the consequence of your own intolerance.

    View Video


  44. by islander on April 24, 2023 5:36 am
    Hate ~


    My wife, kids, and grand kids would laugh at you if they read your post, just as I am laughing at you now !

    So this is what your anti “Trans Agenda” and obsession with them is really all about !!

    Are you really that frightened that a trans person might come in and use one of the stalls in the restroom while you are in the same restroom? What do you think they are going to do? The funniest part of your fear is that you would never even know it if it happened and it’s quite possible that it already has happened...Many times!

    Would you or your wife also be afraid to use a unisex restroom ?

    

Would you want to notify the authorities if a caregiver of the opposite sex came in to the restroom with a person in a wheelchair and aided that person in in the handicapped stall? 

Most public restrooms are now required to have a handicapped stall and even baby changer setups in both single use men’s and lady’s restrooms. And both fathers and mothers sometimes need to accompany their small child into a public restroom. Do you think most woman would really be shocked and outraged if a father accompanied his little girl into a woman’s public restroom or visa versa?

    I think you need to grow up, Hate.


  45. by HatetheSwamp on April 24, 2023 5:55 am

    My wife, kids, and grand kids would laugh at you if they read your post, just as I am laughing at you now !

    No doubt. And, this is why the tide has turned. Americans despise sanctimony and disrespect and, especially on crucial issues connected to the trans political agenda, it seems that all your side has is pt's and po's "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrats" insults and your family's derisive laughter.

    Why don't you advocate rationally for your position, because you had an opportunity to in your last post and you, again, sneered.

    Are you really that frightened that a trans person might come in and use one of the stalls in the restroom while you are in the same restroom?

    Me? Read my post. Me?, no. But if you think that that doesn't matter to tens of millions of Americans, you're a bigoted fool.

    And, we actually discussed my analogy since I posted it. Neither my wife and I would care about unisex biffies but that's not what the trans community advocates for.

    Do you really think my Wal-Mart/Target analogy is inaccurate? We discussed that too and we agree. It's bang on.

    I think you trans-philes and the transies, too, need to wake up and smell the coffee. As long as all you do is insult and sneer, you losses on these issues will become more threatening.

    So, tell me: Why don't you advocate rationally for your position, because you had an opportunity to in your last post and you, again, sneered.


  46. by islander on April 24, 2023 7:15 am

    Of course I laugh at you Hate!

    Your pathetic attempts to mischaracterize the trans-agenda in order to justify your anti trans rants is hilariously obvious. And then, as usual, you go on to speak for everyone else and tell us what “they” think and feel!

    Another reason I have to chuckle when I read your posts is that you’re unable to say anything without filling your posts with all currant pejorative and sometimes comical slang words...You sound like a little kid when you do that.

    Here’s an example:

    ”I'm certain that my organic woman wife wouldn't darken the door of that Wal-Mart ever again...and, it's not about the biffies. It's about woke values. Target's parking lot will be packed!”

    What the heck are the “biffies” LoL !!

    ”Do you really think my Wal-Mart/Target analogy is inaccurate?”

    Umm...Sort of... 😁

    What makes your Wal-Mart/Target analogy so especially funny is that you apparently didn’t know that Target was one of the first to have gender inclusive bathrooms !!! 

I’ll bet all your anti trans cohorts would be shocked after running away from Wal-Mart to use one of Target’s restrooms !! 🤣

    

Can you even begin to imagine all the perverted and hedonistic things taking place in those Target restrooms? I’ll bet you can !! 🍻


  47. by Ponderer on April 24, 2023 8:53 am

    Donna speaking.

    Hts, why do you think you have to be the self-appointed spokesperson for the right on every issue?

    We don't need you to do that. We're all fully aware of how they feel about TG rights ( as well as other issues ), especially me, as I have a personal stake in this. Everything you present is already all over the news.

    We're only interested in how YOU feel, Hts.

    I'll help you answer the question I posed to you: Their anti-trans restroom policy could never be enforced. Actually it doesn't require much thinking to realize that.

    Let me tell you a personal story about the restroom issue.

    There's was prerequisite which required me to live full-time as a woman for one full year before undergoing SRS ( sex reassignment surgery ). Using women's locker rooms could be avoided, but there were many times where I couldn't avoid using a public restroom. Besides, it had gotten to the point long before SRS where men were giving me strange looks in the restroom, and on a couple of occasions I was told point blank that I was using the wrong restroom. I wasn't even presenting as a woman then; it was more of a unisex look. No makeup. So I was virtually forced to use the women's restroom well over a year before SRS.

    With the exception to very few cases, anti-trans restroom policies are unenforceable.




  48. by HatetheSwamp on April 24, 2023 12:26 pm

    We're all fully aware of how they feel about TG rights ( as well as other issues ), especially me, as I have a personal stake in this. Everything you present is already all over the news.

    Why?

    Because this is real life and should be acknowledged...and respected for the fact that it's really real.

    I know. To some it's fascistic and disgusting. And, you'd rather not acknowledge it. But, it's out there.

    With the exception to very few cases, anti-trans restroom policies are unenforceable.

    I doubt that.


  49. by HatetheSwamp on April 24, 2023 12:35 pm

    TRANS INSANITY

    Law Group Demands Answers From Wisconsin School District After Trans-Identifying Male Student Showered In Front Of Four Girls

    While uncomfortable, the girls purportedly did not interact with the male student and proceeded to the shower area with their swimsuits on. While the girls rinsed off, the female-identifying senior approached them, allegedly announced, “I’m trans, by the way,” and “undressed fully and showered completely naked right next to one of the girls.” While initially facing the wall, the male student “eventually turned and fully exposed his male genitalia to the four girls,” at which point the female students quickly left the facility.

    So, pt.

    Splain to me, again, how the parents of these children are "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrats" for being concerned.
    thefederalist.com


  50. by islander on April 24, 2023 1:09 pm

    This guy should be arrested and charged with indecent exposure in front of minors.



    The school should be held accountable for making it possible for an an adult man to walk into the freshman girl’s shower and expose himself to those 14 year old girls...And telling them he’s “trans” doesn’t cut it...


  51. by HatetheSwamp on April 24, 2023 1:42 pm

    BTW, pt, this is why I survey news sources you don't consult. I'm pretty sure this ain't gunna come up on The ReidOut.


  52. by islander on April 24, 2023 2:12 pm

    What this guy did was clearly aberrant sexual behavior even if he’d walked in and done this in front of 14 year olds in a freshman boy’s shower. He’s exhibiting Exhibitionistic disorder which is a condition marked by the urge, fantasy, or act of exposing one’s genitals to non-consenting people.

    ”People with exhibitionistic disorder may have a preference to show their genitals to prepubescent children, adults, or both. Some people may deny that they show their genitals to unsuspecting others or deny that this act causes them distress; if they have indeed exposed themselves repeatedly to non-consenting people, they may still receive a diagnosis of exhibitionistic disorder.”

    psychologytoday.com


  53. by Ponderer on April 24, 2023 3:57 pm

    Donna speaking.

    I agree 100% with the girls' parents and islander. I don't think anyone should be able to simply declare themselves TG and expect to be treated as a genetic member of the opposite sex.










  54. by HatetheSwamp on April 25, 2023 7:02 am

    Here's how the trans agenda is at fault in this: It, very literally, opened the door for this to happen.

    If everyone was good-hearted, if there were no groomers and no exhibitionists and no voyeurs, et.al., there'd be no problem.

    But, the truth is that those people are everywhere and what the advocates of the trans agenda want, makes it waaaaaaaaaay too easy for evil people to do evil things.

    That's precisely why mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps are fighting hard to defeat the woke LGBT and trans agendas...and, why they'll never stop.


  55. by HatetheSwamp on April 25, 2023 8:29 am

    A sign of a growing trend:

    GAYS AGAINST GROOMERS
    "Thank you for 250K followers! When we launched our organization back in June of 2022, we thought maybe it would have 5K-10K followers in this amount of time and perhaps some blog would write about us. Boy were we wrong 🤣

    We will not stop until the war on children is ended."


  56. by islander on April 25, 2023 8:52 am

    ”If everyone was good-hearted, if there were no groomers and no exhibitionists and no voyeurs, et.al., there'd be no problem.” ~ Hate

    These kinds of disturbed and predatory people have always existed and they will continue to exist and commit their crimes whether there were or were no transgenders. Our job is to make and enforce laws that will help to prevent them from committing such crimes.

    Discriminating against and denying a certain group of people who have committed no crime their civil rights, equal protection under the law, and then falsely blaming them for facilitating the crimes of others is not the way to fight sexual predators, voyeurs, and exhibitionists etc.


  57. by islander on April 25, 2023 9:04 am

    ”If everyone was good-hearted, if there were no groomers and no exhibitionists and no voyeurs, et.al., there'd be no problem.” ~ Hate

    These kinds of disturbed and predatory people have always existed and they will continue to exist and commit their crimes whether there were or were no transgenders. Our job is to make and enforce laws that will help to prevent them from committing such crimes.

    Discriminating against and denying a certain group of people who have committed no crime their civil rights, equal protection under the law, and then blaming them for facilitating the crimes of others is not the way to fight sexual predators, voyeurs, exhibitionists, etc.

    Trans people do not “groom” kids. How do you>/i> imagine they would “groom” a child and for what purpose? To become a transexual?

    This is what grooming is:

    >Far-right and extremist voices have launched a significant attack against the LGBTQ+ community in 2021-2022, demonizing people via repeated false claims that LGBTQ+ people are “pedophiles” who are “grooming” children in order to abuse them. This false and malicious narrative has been weaponized to label the LGBTQ+ community as “groomers” and has fueled a slew of hostile legislation and policies aimed at erasing the discussion of LGBTQ+ related issues in schools, removing LGBTQ+ books from schools and public libraries and, especially, to ostracize, defame and harass transgender people.

    What is “grooming”?

    Anti-LGBTQ+ extremists have misappropriated a legitimate term related to sexual abuse in order to demonize LGBTQ+ people. RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network), the United States’ largest anti-sexual violence organization, defines grooming as “manipulative behaviors” used by sexual abusers “to gain access to a potential victim, coerce them to agree to the abuse, and reduce the risk of being caught.”
    True grooming can occur online or in-person. Abusers may attempt to gain a young person’s trust by giving them gifts and attention, and by taking them on special trips. Groomers may also attempt to form a relationship with a young person’s family or friends to make themselves seem more trustworthy.


    adl.org


  58. by islander on April 25, 2023 9:36 am
    Sorry about double post.


  59. by oldedude on April 25, 2023 11:18 am
    These kinds of disturbed and predatory people have always existed and they will continue to exist and commit their crimes whether there were or were no transgenders. Our job is to make and enforce laws that will help to prevent them from committing such crimes.

    I agree with that and have been adamant in saying that. AND to say that I haven't seen this being about trans "groomers" specifically. I have routinely maintained it's about the access level to children without knowledge or consent of their parents that is the problem. Read what you want into it, and be brainwashed at your whim. Esample:

    Parents reportedly suing school district after it allegedly helped secretly transition their child

    Sean and Ashley Willey are suing the Sweetwater County School District No. 1 board and some administrators for allegedly helping to gender-transition their daughter while actively hiding it from them. “A Rock Springs couple said their school district helped their daughter socially transition to a boy behind their backs and has coerced teachers into secretly affirming transgender students. The couple is suing the district and its top administrators,” the Cowboy State Daily reported.

    The debate over the ethics of allowing children to change their gender from male to female or vise-versa remains one of America’s most politically divisive topics. This debate is especially salient when it comes to education and its influence over children while their parents are at work.


  60. by HatetheSwamp on April 25, 2023 11:20 am

    Here's where the debate comes from these days, isle...as far as I can tell:

    To convince those mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps, who only want to be treated honestly and fairly by public school teachers and administrators, when they inquire over the care of their children and grandchildren, that they themselves are anti-LGBTQ+, you're going to have to convince them that Chadwick Moore (of the hilarious Tucker Carlson interview) and Guy Benson are anti-LGBTQ+ and the whole GAG organization is anti-LGBTQ+.

    You're going to have to be sell snowballs to Eskimos persuasive.

    It seems to me that, at the moment, this is an argument you can't win. You might pull out a draw. But, win? Nuh uh.


  61. by HatetheSwamp on April 25, 2023 11:24 am

    Sean and Ashley Willey are suing the Sweetwater County School District No. 1 board and some administrators for allegedly helping to gender-transition their daughter while actively hiding it from them.

    I'm willing to be corrected but I think that this is what po argues NEVER happens and what pt argues is a good thing.


  62. by Ponderer on April 25, 2023 12:50 pm

    Donna speaking.

    I said that it depends on the situation, as some kids could be put in danger by notifying the parents. I would think that in most cases, though, the parents should be notified.



  63. by islander on April 25, 2023 12:57 pm

    The topic of this thread is---” Cutting through the BS and assorted disinformation about transgenderism”

    One of the BS and disinformation lies being spread is that trangenders are “grooming” children.

    Grooming is defined as “manipulative behaviors” used by sexual abusers “to gain access to a potential victim, coerce them to agree to the abuse, and reduce the risk of being caught.

    The example given of the Sweetwater County School District is NOT an example of transgenders grooming a student. 

The Sweetwater Schoolboard is not a group of transgenders trying to manipulate children in order to gain access to a victim and coerce the child into agreeing to abuse.

    There can be times when a school might, in order to protect a child, choose to keep the confidentiality requested by a child. and this was what this 16 year old student requested. This kind of decision can only be done on a case-by-case scenario.

    

Not knowing all the particulars of this case I don’t know if accepting the student's request for confidentiality was warranted or not. However (after hearing only one side of this) “at this point” it would seem to me the school should have informed the parents in this case.

    This is not however a case of transgenders grooming a child..


  64. by HatetheSwamp on April 25, 2023 1:43 pm

    Grooming is defined as “manipulative behaviors” used by sexual abusers “to gain access to a potential victim, coerce them to agree to the abuse, and reduce the risk of being caught.

    I don't think, when mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps support legislation to protect their rights to control teachers and administrators in public schools, that that's how they define the grooming that takes place in the classroom.

    "Groom: to prepare or train (someone) for a particular purpose or activity."

    That's what they fear public schools are doing. That's what families seek to prevent. What is going on, as is demonstrated regularly on Libs of TikTok, takes place very openly and publicly, though subverting the will of parents. It's not recruiting, it's mentoring.

    The Sweetwater incident absolutely isn't a case of grooming. It illustrates another issue over which mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps are at odds with the trans political agenda...gender-uh-affirming bathroom policies.


  65. by HatetheSwamp on April 25, 2023 1:48 pm

    I said that it depends on the situation, as some kids could be put in danger by notifying the parents. I would think that in most cases, though, the parents should be notified.

    And, this, I'm afraid, is where a bedrock difference exists. For you, the default authority is, well for general purposes, Big Brother...the school or some other
    institution beyond the family.


  66. by Ponderer on April 25, 2023 2:01 pm

    Mother shot her daughter & trans son to death

    You don't care, though, as long as you put Donna in her place. That's all that's important to you.


    lgbtqnation.com


  67. by HatetheSwamp on April 25, 2023 2:07 pm

    po,

    Offer a constructive solution beyond calling those mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps "Christian theocrats."

    No one wants tragic suffering.


  68. by islander on April 25, 2023 2:28 pm

    And, this, I'm afraid, is where a bedrock difference exists. For you [Donna], the default authority is, well for general purposes, Big Brother...the school or some other
    institution beyond the family.
    ~ Hate

    “General purposes”??? I’ve been reading Donna and Ponderer’s posts and what they have been saying does not at all even remotely resemble what you just said.

    As is so often the case, it seems you’re arguments are so pathetically weak that you have to make up lies like that in order to support them.

    Are you completely lacking in internal and intellectual integrity?


  69. by HatetheSwamp on April 25, 2023 2:31 pm

    Fine, isle. Set me straight.

    Who gets the ultimate say so according to pt and po?


  70. by islander on April 25, 2023 2:49 pm

    "Who gets the ultimate say so according to pt and po?"

    Try reading their posts. You already know the answer to your question, Donna has told you herself in post # 62:

    "I said that it depends on the situation, as some kids could be put in danger by notifying the parents. I would think that in most cases, though, the parents should be notified." ~ Donna



  71. by HatetheSwamp on April 25, 2023 3:22 pm

    Okay. Apparently, I still don't UNDERSTAND.

    If Big Brother doesn't have ultimate discretion, who does?


  72. by islander on April 26, 2023 4:08 am

    I agree...apparently you still don’t understand.

    Your question demonstrates that.

    Try giving it some thought.


  73. by HatetheSwamp on April 26, 2023 4:12 am

    Clearly, isle. I need you. I don't possess the enlightenment that comes with being woke. This is your obligation as a White progressive to help the disadvantaged.

    Again...

    If Big Brother doesn't have ultimate discretion, who does?


  74. by HatetheSwamp on April 26, 2023 4:24 am

    isle,

    This is Big Brother sponsored, institutionalized grooming. Stopping this is why GAG and Libs of TikTok exist. It's why mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps are up in arms against you who are woke.

    "Millcreek Township School District is reportedly holding a “dress in drag” day for students where they encourage students to “embrace yourself” by dressing up as a drag queen."
    twitter.com
    twitter.com


  75. by islander on April 26, 2023 5:02 am

    That's nothing...When I was a kid our school took us to the Boston Museum of Fine Art for a class trip.

    We saw statues and paintings of naked people !!

    My kids saw the movie To Wong Foo and saw Patrick Swayze in drag !! They thought he looked hilarious !!

    Check it out if you haven't seen it.


  76. by HatetheSwamp on April 26, 2023 5:16 am

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha, isle. Good'ne.

    Thing is, the white progressive woke LGBTQ gang needs to win the hearts of Gays Against Groomers and the Libs of TikTok crowd, not a white northeast Limousine Lib such as yourself.


  77. by islander on April 26, 2023 5:41 am

    We’ll never win you and/or those like you over, and that’s perfectly ok.

    We don’t need to.

    There’ll always be the Elmer Gantrys and Carrie Nartions who once described herself as "a bulldog running along at the feet of Jesus, barking at what He doesn't like" !!


  78. by HatetheSwamp on April 26, 2023 6:13 am

    Ahhhhhhhhhhh. There's nuthin like woke, white progressive , superiorist sanctimony. "We're better than the scum who ain't us!" Eh?

    Got that. Along side of Trump bashing, that's your number one go-to. Tried and true. A lib classic.

    But, to the point of the thread, there's BS and disinformation on both sides. On your side, it's that it's the unified LGBTQIA/woke, white limousine lib communities v. the Neanderthal right. But, the LGBTQIA coalition is disingrating. Exponentially.

    And, until y'nes drop your insane support of T and Q grooming, your side'll continue to lose ground and, more and more, "the people and their representatives" will pass genuinely oppressive legislation against LGBTQIAs.

    If that's what you want...


  79. by islander on April 26, 2023 7:51 am

    Hate...or should I call you Elmer ?

    There's nuthin like woke, white progressive , superiorist sanctimony. "We're better than the scum who ain't us!" Eh?” ~ Hate

    I dunno. Who is this scum you’re talking about? And in what way do you think progressives are superior ???

    ”But, to the point of the thread, there's BS and disinformation on both sides.” ~ Hate

    That's the default defense of the cynics when they can no longer deny that they and their side have been wrong all along but they’re unable to actually come right out and admit it.

    Some can't even admit it to themselves) !



  80. by Ponderer on April 27, 2023 8:07 am

    "And, until y'nes drop your insane support of T and Q grooming" -Hate

    Please go fukk yourself Bill. You fukking deranged, bigoted assholes are totally destroying America while wiping your asses with other people's Constitutional and human rights. You really need to fukk yourselves, but good.


  81. by HatetheSwamp on April 27, 2023 8:33 am

    po, just for a reality check, go to Twitter and follow Gays Against Groomers. Check on it daily until, say, Memorial Day. Startling. It'll bring you down to earth.

    Truth? Oodles of LGBs see waaaaaaaaaay too much grooming among trans people. It's just a fact.

    My sense is that the most vehement opposition to the trans political agenda comes from within the LGBT community.


  82. by islander on April 27, 2023 9:01 am

    ”My sense is that the most vehement opposition to the trans political agenda comes from within the LGBT community.” ~Hate



    LoL !!! What a funny guy you are Hate!

    For the guy who voted for Trump twice, and then jumped right on the bandwagon for another Trump wannabe and loser like DeSantis...Well...That doesn’t really say much for your “sense” !! 🤣

    You can’t even explain how or why a trans or anybody would want to ‘groom’ a little boy into wanting to become, or encouraging him to become a girl and/or a little girl to become a little boy! 🤔


  83. by HatetheSwamp on April 27, 2023 11:03 am

    You can’t even explain how or why a trans or anybody would want to ‘groom’ a little boy into wanting to become, or encouraging him to become a girl and/or a little girl to become a little boy!

    There's a reason for that. I don't think that happens.

    Still, my insanity aside, it's true that the trans political agenda is being opposed by three groups of people who don't include good ol pb:

    1. Non-woke LGBs...GAG!!!!!
    2. Feminists.
    3. Mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who simply want to be involved in their kid's education without woke LGBT subversion.


  84. by islander on April 27, 2023 12:36 pm

    You can’t even explain how or why a trans or anybody would want to ‘groom’ a little boy into wanting to become, or encouraging him to become a girl and/or a little girl to become a little boy!---

    

”There's a reason for that. I don't think that happens.” ~ Hate

    Oh ! You don’t think it happens? ”Truth? Oodles of LGBs see waaaaaaaaaay too much grooming among trans people. It's just a fact.” ~ Hate



    But you do want other people to believe it happens, you know, like the MAGAS you sanctimoniously call “inbreds”. ”But, with 2020, it isn’t only inbred MAGAS who think that there was significant fraud” ~ Hate



    It’s only your side that falls for your slight of hand. The rest of us are well aware of the deceptive tactics you use.

    Hate’s tactic, I didn’t say that. I don’t know if its true or not, but I’m just telling you what someone else told me. Like Non-woke LGBs...GAG!!!!!
 Feminists, 
Mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who simply want to be involved in their kid's education without woke LGBT subversion.

    The readers here know how you use weasel words and speak with a forked tongue, Gossips and troublemakers do the same thing all the time. Like I said in another post:


    `
    Mary Jane [Hate] leans over the backyard fence and says to her neighbor, “Ellie told me that last week when Ed was up at his hunting camp, she saw Ed's wife Sally go into the West Side motel with another man. And that’s not the only time !!”

    When confronted by Sally and told that this was a lie, Mary Jane [Hate] says, “I never told anyone that I saw you going into a motel with another man! I never thought you’d do anything like that, this is just what "Ellie" has been telling people.”


  85. by Ponderer on April 27, 2023 1:17 pm

    Donna posting.

    Seems obvious that one could just look at the genitalia. You’re either a boy or a girl, right? Well, not always. Although it’s rare, many people are born with ambiguous genitalia. The OB/GYN and the pediatrician are simply unable to determine the sex. Historically, in consultation with the family, a sex would be assigned. Turns out that often as not the child would ultimately identify with the sex they were not assigned.

    So it must be the chromosomes. The 23rd pair in humans is designated XX in females and XY in males. The Y chromosome determines male characteristics, so you are either a boy or a girl, right? Well, not always.

    In embryology the default setting is female. The Y chromosome normally triggers male development. Ever heard of testicular feminization syndrome, now more properly referred to as androgen insensitivity syndrome? Sometimes an XY baby is born with essentially normal female external genitalia. The body simply does not respond to androgens associated with the Y chromosome. As the child grows and enters puberty there will be normal female breast development and other feminine characteristics. Unless genetic testing has been done at some point, the abnormality is not discovered until the teenage daughter presents to the doctor with concerns that menstruation has not started. Examination will reveal that the vagina ends in a blind pouch, no uterus, and undescended testes. They are often very feminine - cheerleaders, beauty pageant contestants, etc.

    Nearly everybody is a “normal” XX or XY, has anatomy to match, and is perfectly at peace with themselves. But not everybody. Several studies have identified how the sexual diversity between men and women does not exclusively involve the genitals, but also the development of different brain areas. And just as genitals can be ambiguous, or not match what XY would predict,so can the brain in some instances develop in a different direction than the genitals. Animal studies suggest this is likely due to atypical levels of sex hormones in the womb.

    One of several such structures studied in the human brain have involved an area of the limbic system known as the nucleus of the terminal stria. The volume of this area appears to be influenced by the stimulation of sex hormones during brain development, and in men the volume of this area is greater than in women. Scans of this area in transgender women (genetic/anatomic men who identify as females) resemble that of non transgender females. In this matter gender identity develops from the complex interactions between sex hormones and brain during its development; moreover, this appears to be genetically predetermined and is not influenced by hormonal stimuli during the adult phase. It is important to understand that at this point it is not known for certain what causes gender dysphoria or incongruence, just as we don’t know for certain what makes someone gay or for that matter, left handed.

    Gender dysphoria often begins in childhood and can lead to severe distress, depression, and suicide. Treatment includes thorough psychological and medical evaluation and psychotherapy. Hormonal treatments in children are designed to delay puberty until decisions about desired gender characteristics can be made. The treatments are not permanent and are REVERSIBLE. Hormone treatments are not given to prepubertal children and in fact are not started until Tanner stage 2 of puberty. Sex change (gender reassignment) operations are not done on children. (Rare exception might be in the case of ambiguous genitalia where surgery may be done to make genital appearance more consistent with the genetic sex).

    Unfortunately there are many people who cannot or will not understand that someone different from themselves might really be different for a real reason. I recently watched a video of a Fox News personality guffawing, in an arrogant and grotesque display of not knowing what one does not know, about how "woke liberals" were looking into the science of what makes someone a man or a woman. I hope the information provided here explains why that question is not quite as simple as it sounds.

    It is also unfortunate in Texas that people with political power seem to think that trans people just want to get on the girls' track team to win a lot of medals or get in the girls' rest room to watch them pee. Governor Abbott, Lt Gov Patrick, and AG Paxton have shown profound ignorance and cruelty in decreeing treatment for these kids to be child abuse. Even right wing columnist Mona Charen called Abbott's behavior "malice masquerading as policy making". They really no different than lunchroom bullies.

    The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Academy of Family Physicians, American Medical Association, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, and the Endocrine Society have expressed outrage that government is inserting itself into a matter that should be left to families, patients, and their doctors. There are well established evidence based procedures that have been in place for decades. This is not a new phenomenon and it is not a fad. Treatment saves lives. Denying treatment is cruel.

    I would hope that someone will share this with a conservative friend. For most of us it seems ridiculous that a guy would think he is a woman, or a woman to think she is a man. The human brain and human body are complex and wondrous and get it “right” almost every time, but sometimes they get it different. And different should not be wrong, and different people and their families should not be attacked by their own government.”

    - Joe McCreight, MD



  86. by islander on April 27, 2023 1:40 pm

    Thanks Donna---I'll be sharing this with some of my family and others I debate with on FB.


  87. by Ponderer on April 27, 2023 1:43 pm

    You're welcome, islander. I'm very glad to help.


  88. by HatetheSwamp on April 27, 2023 2:19 pm

    Interesting and informative, pt.

    Still, mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps get upset when public school staffers subvert their relationship with their kids and grandkids, even feminists think Lia Thomas, for one and among many others, shouldn't compete against biological females and, as I understand it, many LGBs including GAG people insist that trans activists unnecessarily push otherwise contentedly lesbian and gay children toward a trans identity...politically speaking.


  89. by HatetheSwamp on April 28, 2023 8:11 am

    This is what infuriates and activates mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps about public schools. It's where all that "fascistic and disgusting" legislation comes from:

    Texas High School Allowed Psychiatrist To Speak On Gender & LGBTQ Issues Without Parental Knowledge Or Consent

    Following this incident, a mother whose 16-year-old attended a talk by Dr. Ansboro spoke at the next Board of Education meeting.

    She was concerned about the materials shared with 9th to 12th graders without parental knowledge or consent.

    “My child came home that day and told me a psychologist had spoken in the school about gender-affirming health care, drugs to take to alter your gender, politics, including current legislation in Texas courts, and even Christians not supporting the LGBTQ community,” the mother stated.

    The mother expressed concern about a group’s use of taxpayer equipment to push a political agenda, including inaccurate and misleading information about the governor and House Representative Chip Roy. She questioned who was overseeing the group and was worried about such propaganda being used to educate students.


    Can you understand the level of distrust so many millions of mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps have toward public school boards, public school teachers and public school administrators?
    thepublica.com


  90. by Ponderer on April 28, 2023 2:38 pm

    "po, just for a reality check, go to Twitter and follow Gays Against Groomers." -Hate

    You are the last person on the face of this Earth that I would take any advice from regarding reality, Bill. I don't give a flying rat's ass about what anti-trans propaganda .003% of the population wants to spew on Twitter. Their tiny fraction of the population does not constitute reality as a whole. Much as you would love them to.

    Especially when you can't for the life of you describe what "grooming" even is for fukk sake.


    The lunatic right MAGA Republicans want everyone to think that merely telling children that something exists is the exact same thing as "grooming" them to do it. Like how teaching kids about World War Two turned so many of them into Nazis I suppose.

    They want all mention or acknowledgement of the issue of transgender to be stricken from all educational speech and public life even. They seem to believe that if they can only get society to absolutely ignore the whole subject of transgender, it will all just go away and there will be no more transgender people. This is asinine. We have always been in every society since time immemorial and we always will be here. It's simply a part of the human condition. It's a part of our species.



    You can not "groom" a child into being transgender. A child who is not transgender will never become transgender. You can't make them transgender anymore than you can make a straight person gay or lesbian.



    Children who are not transgender are in no danger of becoming transgender simply from learning that transgender people exist or what they do to deal with their situation.

    But children who are transgender are in extreme danger of even more debilitating depression or even suicide because of the heinous and sociopathic way that MAGA Republicans want to treat this subject. And them.


  91. by Ponderer on April 28, 2023 2:44 pm

    "“My child came home that day and told me a psychologist had spoken in the school about gender-affirming health care, drugs to take to alter your gender, politics, including current legislation in Texas courts, and even Christians not supporting the LGBTQ community,” the mother stated."




    ...So?

    If the parents have already signed off on their child being allowed to receive sex education at school, there is nothing wrong with this being included. There is no "political agenda" being foisted here.

    AGAIN, teaching that something exists is not the same thing as grooming.


  92. by Ponderer on April 28, 2023 2:46 pm

    (Those last two posts were mine.)


  93. by oldedude on April 28, 2023 6:55 pm
    "If the parents have already signed off on their child being allowed to receive sex education at school, there is nothing wrong with this being included. There is no "political agenda" being foisted here."

    Simply not true. Especially if they're hiding curriculum from the parents (as was the example). You're saying (repeatedly) that parents have no right to know what their children are learning. What if "world history" was an indictment of the US system in favor of Nazism and supporting the genocide of LGBTQ+? The parents still signed off on "world history" right?

    There is a "political agenda" and the attack of core values of almost half (if not more) of the population of the US. And it's not "just" the Christians. A huge voting block, the Muslims are banded against this also. Except in Islam, to murder one of their children for just being "too western" is punishable by death. It's called an "honor killing." It's simple. Tell the parents WTF you're teaching in your school. Don't be a dick about it. If you're afraid for them to know, it's wrong.

    I don't understand why you continue to hide behind the lies that this isn't being done. We've both produced evidence, now appearing in courts as lawsuits. Why doesn't the movement just say what they're doing and have the parents involved? I had parents that told me that ANY adult that said "this is just between us, don't tell anyone else" is a bad person. I think that still stands. Maybe you weren't taught that, I don't know. But it still stands today. All my kids teach my grandkids the same thing.


  94. by oldedude on April 28, 2023 7:17 pm
    Case in point. Lawsuit brought to court with sworn testimony.

    “(Staffers are) deceiving parents by treating and referring to children one way when communicating with parents and another way at school,” the complaint continues.

    The girl had told a private counselor selected by the parents to deal with the child’s trauma that she thought she was trans, according to the outlet. The family and the counselor began working through the feelings with the daughter.

    According to the lawsuit, Ashley Willey had chatted with teachers at a district wide training and one teacher seemed not to know of her daughter. When Ashely showed the teacher a picture of her, the teacher said “it goes by (male name).”

    The suit alleges that the girl felt pressured to continue using a male name, thinking school officials would be angry if she didn’t follow “their direction.”

    During an April 2022 meeting, female pronouns were used for the girl, but only because the daughter had requested it. The school officials were allegedly instructed to use the male pronouns “to protect the child’s safety.”

    This cite is

    Welcome to brainwashing.
    Brainwashing means the process of pressuring someone into adopting radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible means(2). It refers to a method or process of changing someone’s beliefs, attitudes, or values by using force, torture, drugs, or psychological techniques(3). Brainwashing has been associated with totalitarian regimes, cults, human trafficking, and LSD use(3).

    persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship(2)


    and since I'm only allowed four cites, the last one.

    "Maine mom suing school for giving daughter chest binders says liberals attacking her online"
    cowboystatedaily.com
    bing.com
    merriam-webster.com
    nypost.com


  95. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 4:03 am

    "po, just for a reality check, go to Twitter and follow Gays Against Groomers." -Hate

    You are the last person on the face of this Earth that I would take any advice from regarding reality, Bill. I don't give a flying rat's ass about what anti-trans propaganda .003% of the population wants to spew on Twitter.


    pb's making the point that, more and more all the time, LGBs are standing up against the trans political agenda.

    Ironically, the GAG page on Twitter was created during Pride Month last year. It's been operating for ten months and, as of this moment, it has 259,000 followers...nearly 1,000 new followers a day.

    Heck. There's even a Twitter page that calls itself "LGB." It's specifically devoted to separating LGBs from TQs... precisely what pb's been saying is happening.


    As you know, or should because you read my posts, Caitlyn Jenner is beloved on Fox and people like pb are groovy with that...by the millions. You know that I wish pt and you well.

    This is not about being anti-trans.

    It's about the politics. For me, it's being vehemently against woke politics. It's about Big Brother being the root of all political evil.

    If you think that the trans political agenda ain't losing ground, you're in a different reality.


  96. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 4:18 am

    Children who are not transgender are in no danger of becoming transgender simply from learning that transgender people exist or what they do to deal with their situation.

    Just to repeat. The GAG group exists because it disagrees with the trans political agenda on that specific assertion. That's why your group's political agenda is at risk.

    I've already posted that this is something I have no opinion about because I'm straight.

    Based on my understanding, the first, foundational principle of the GAG group is that trans advocates are recruiting, i.e., grooming children who might otherwise grow up to be contentedly LGB and that you trans people are, essentially, ruining their futures. That's why the name is Gays Against GROOMERS.

    I don't know about that. It's beyond my experience. What I do know is that that "gospel" is expanding rapidly among LGB people. It's becoming a bigger threat to the trans political agenda than those laws supported by nannas and pappaps will ever be.


  97. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 4:42 am

    "“My child came home that day and told me a psychologist had spoken in the school about gender-affirming health care, drugs to take to alter your gender, politics, including current legislation in Texas courts, and even Christians not supporting the LGBTQ community,” the mother stated."


    ...So?

    If the parents have already signed off on their child being allowed to receive sex education at school, there is nothing wrong with this being included. There is no "political agenda" being foisted here.

    AGAIN, teaching that something exists is not the same thing as grooming.


    Watch with the centering-the-universe thing, there, po. And, the sanctimony.

    Truth? This event made the news so much so that even pb caught wind of it.

    These days, the trans political agenda is fighting a war on three fronts:

    1. Old-school feminists.
    2. LGBs who oppose what they consider to be trans grooming of LGB children who could grow up to be content living as LGBs. And,
    3. Your "Christian theocrat" mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps.

    As much as you want to dismiss and belittle this mother, there are millions of mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps...probably TENS of millions...who agree with her, and who are very committed.

    And, for the trans political agenda?, that's a serious problem.


  98. by islander on April 29, 2023 5:35 am

    "Texas High School Allowed Psychiatrist To Speak On Gender & LGBTQ Issues Without Parental Knowledge Or Consent"

    As a parent and grandparent, my kids and grand-kids have always had a powerful “drive to understand” and encouraging them to embrace that desire to learn and understand was one of the most important things we could do for them.

    That’s what I want our public schools to do...foster that drive to understand and inspire their thirst for knowledge.

    That there are people who are nervous and afraid of that is something I’m well aware of. Homeschooling or private schools might be a better alternative for them.

    There is nothing scary or threatening about a child learning about and having a better understanding transgenderism. If however, a parent has little real knowledge or understanding of it, there are bound to be some who will feel frightened and insecure that their child is learning about dysphoria and transgenderism.

    The best thing such a parent can do of course would be to learn more about it themselves. What I don't want them to do is to stop my child or other children from learning about and having a better understanding of it.


  99. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 5:52 am

    Pope Francis Condemns Abortion, Gender Ideology


    Pope Francis on Friday condemned abortion as "senseless" and gender ideology as a perversion of true human freedom.

    "This is the baneful path taken by those forms of 'ideological colonization' that would cancel differences, as in the case of the so-called gender theory, or that would place before the reality of life reductive concepts of freedom, for example by vaunting as progress a senseless 'right to abortion,' which is always a tragic defeat," the Pope said in a speech to government leaders, including Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, during a three-day visit to Budapest.

    "How much better it would be to build a Europe centered on the human person and on its peoples, with effective policies for natality and the family — policies that are pursued attentively in this country — a Europe whose different nations would form a single family that protects the growth and uniqueness of each of its members," he added.


    So, pt and po. Getting down to brass tacks:

    Is the Pope a "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrat?"
    newsmax.com


  100. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 6:11 am

    As a parent and grandparent, my kids and grand-kids have always had a powerful “drive to understand” and encouraging them to embrace that desire to learn and understand was one of the most important things we could do for them.

    That’s what I want our public schools to do...foster that drive to understand and inspire their thirst for knowledge.

    That there are people who are nervous and afraid of that is something I’m well aware of. Homeschooling or private schools might be a better alternative for them.


    No doubt, your fambly and you are truly enlightened, northeast, white, limousine lib, progressives. And, for you this is not sanctimony. You are a cut above the common. You UNDERSTAND.


    The thing is, that public schools, by definition, serve the effin PUBLIC...not the enlightened. By definition, homeschooling and private schools are for your enlightened ilk, not the public.

    One of the arguments being made by the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps is precisely that argument. They saying, WE ARE THE effin PUBLIC, YOU TRANS AND TRANS-PHILES AIN'T.

    So, send your grandkids and great grandkids to private schools, or homeschool them and let the public own the public schools.


  101. by islander on April 29, 2023 6:59 am

    ”And, for you this is not sanctimony. You are a cut above the common. You UNDERSTAND.” ~ Hate

    Thank you! 🍻

    I kinda figured that this is where your anger and insecurity comes from.

    Believe it or not there really are people who know more and have a better understanding of many things than you or I do.

    That doesn’t make me angry or insecure and it shouldn’t you. 

We can learn a lot from them. Unfortunately, like you, not everybody feels that way though.

    And by the way, we are all part of the public.


  102. by islander on April 29, 2023 7:03 am

    ”Pope Francis on Friday condemned abortion as "senseless" and gender ideology as a perversion of true human freedom.”

    I’ll bet you're glad your not a Catholic who has to believe that! I’ll also bet you don’t believe the Pope is infallible when he speaks on faith and moral issues and I'll bet you’re glad he’s not. LoL !!

    You should read some of the other things popes have proclaimed !

    Click on the link to read Pius IX encyclical listing things you are forbidden to believe! 😲

    papalencyclicals.net


  103. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 7:22 am

    And by the way, we are all part of the public.


    Just so we're clear, YOU are the one suggesting that the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps...and their progeny ain't suited for PUBLIC schools.


  104. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 7:28 am

    Re: Pope Francis

    pb's a Matthew 25:34f Christian, i.e., "I was hungry and you gave me something to eat...I was in prison and you visited me."

    I am, of course an enemy of institutionalized Christianity. But. This Pope, IMO, gets a lot right.


  105. by islander on April 29, 2023 7:40 am

    "Just so we're clear, YOU are the one suggesting that the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps...and their progeny ain't suited for PUBLIC schools."

    No. I'm saying that public schools might not be suitable for some people.

    That's why we have other options for them. Some people choose to home school and/or send their kids to private or parochial schools that are more suitable for teaching their kid what they want their kid to learn or not learn.



  106. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 8:35 am

    No. I'm saying that public schools might not be suitable for some people.

    You're saying that public school may not be for the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps that I've been describing.

    My point is that, by the effin day, the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps are more committed than ever to transforming public schools. They are making progress. They ain't leaving so, y'nes may want to look for those "other options."


  107. by islander on April 29, 2023 8:41 am

    "You're saying that public school may not be for the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps that I've been describing."

    Exactly !!

    "My point is that, by the effin day, the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps are more committed than ever to transforming public schools."

    We all know that's what they are trying to do.



  108. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 8:45 am

    ...and, you think that's a bad thing?


  109. by Ponderer on April 29, 2023 10:31 am

    "You're saying (repeatedly) that parents have no right to know what their children are learning." -olde dude

    Nope. Sorry. Never said that or anything like it. Please stop lying about me.


    "pb's making the point that, more and more all the time, LGBs are standing up against the trans political agenda." -Hate

    And the ones who aren't standing up against the trans political agenda don't even know what the fukk those others are even talking about. And THEY are by far the largest majority. Your self hating trans activists are only a loud but tiny minority, Bill.


    "This is not about being anti-trans." -Hate

    Of course it is. That's why the MAGA Republican agenda is to adjudicate the entire minority out of existence. That is what they are working towards and have been for some time now.


    "The GAG group exists because it disagrees with the trans political agenda on that specific assertion." -Hate

    As I have said before, people who are wrong have all the right in the world to spout their wrong ideas. It doesn't make them right. And in this case, it means the "trans" people you are basing your assertions on don't even know what trans actually is in the first place. And it is their wrong beliefs about the subject that are at the heart of their baseless agenda to stop grooming that isn't even happening.


    "Is the Pope a "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrat?"" -Hate

    Not until he gets elected to public office and starts putting his religious beliefs into our laws he isn't. It's amazing to me that you don't understand the difference. Well... maybe it isn't that amazing.


  110. by oldedude on April 29, 2023 10:52 am
    GAG seems to me to be folks that are worried about sexual exploitation of children. That they're gay doesn't speak to me much. They're concerned PEOPLE. You on the other hand, seem to be on board with the whole concept of making children objects of sexual exploitation. I always ask the question: "why would an adult be supportive of any sort of child exploitation and sexual slavery?" That makes no sense to me and is pretty suspicious at the same time.

    Drag queen who counseled children charged with 25 counts of child porn, police say
    HARRISBURG, Penn. (TND) — A Pennsylvania drag queen who at one time is said to have counseled children has been arrested and charged with 25 counts of child pornography, police reportedly said.

    Brice Williams, 26, who goes by the stage name of "Anastasia Diamond," is accused of downloading photos and videos of child porn two years ago, according to PennLive.com.

    The Pennsylvania Attorney General’s Office claims Williams acquired at least 49 photos and 25 videos of naked, prepubescent boys between May and December 2020.

    komonews.com


  111. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 11:32 am

    "pb's making the point that, more and more all the time, LGBs are standing up against the trans political agenda." -Hate

    And the ones who aren't standing up against the trans political agenda don't even know what the fukk those others are even talking about. And THEY are by far the largest majority. Your self hating trans activists are only a loud but tiny minority, Bill.


    What amazes me, po, is that, at the beginning of Pride Month last year, GAG didn't even exist. Now it has waaaaaaay more than a quarter of a million Twitter followers. There's now serious, highly motivated opposition to the trans agenda from LGBs.

    Plus the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps whom you've tried to characterize as Christian theocrats.

    Plus old-school, Title IX feminists.


  112. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 11:36 am

    "This is not about being anti-trans." -Hate

    Of course it is. That's why the MAGA Republican agenda is to adjudicate the entire minority out of existence. That is what they are working towards and have been for some time now.


    Absolutely not. I wish pt and you well. As I've noted, Caitlyn Jenner is beloved among Fox News viewers. It's the woke, Big Brother trans political agenda that the object of ire.


  113. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 11:52 am

    GAG seems to me to be folks that are worried about sexual exploitation of children. That they're gay doesn't speak to me much. They're concerned PEOPLE.


    OD,

    I think that they're more than simply concerned people. I've been reading the stuff on the website. From what I can tell, they are really pi$$ed at trans people. They're convinced that trans people, in effect, destroy the lives of many lesbian, gay and bisexual children who'd be able to live abundant lives as LGBs, without being pushed to be trans.

    The GAG gang is angry in a way that straight people can't understand. I can't,
    anyway. I get the idea thatmany of them were recruited/"groomed" (using their own word), by trans people, to be trans. These LGBs strike me as being really, really pi$$ed at trans activists in a way that a straight person can't understand...because we're straight and can't comprehend the allure of transitioning.

    I suspect that five years from now, people advocating the trans agenda will be challenged by LGBs far more seriously than the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who show up at school board meetings.

    I'm new to this. I may be wrong. But, I don't think so.


  114. by islander on April 29, 2023 1:33 pm

    What amazes me, po, is that, at the beginning of Pride Month last year, GAG didn't even exist. Now it has waaaaaaay more than a quarter of a million Twitter followers. There's now serious, highly motivated opposition to the trans agenda from LGBs. ~ Hate

    How many of the tweets on the site are actually from gays? ~ Do you know? How did you find out?

    How many of the tweets are simply from ant-trans straights posing as gays against “grooming”? ~ Do you know? How did you find out?

    Are the opinions and posts you see on the GAG site legitimate or is it more more of a propaganda site like countless others. ~ Do you know? How did you find out?

    If your honest answer to those questions is no, then you are foolish to think you can support your assertions about the beliefs of gays regarding transsexuals by appealing to that type of site.

    The site itself claims it is ”an organization of gays against the sexualization, indoctrination and medicalization of children under the guise of "LGBTQIA+"


    The BIG problem with your attempts to convince anyone of your claim that transgenders have as their agenda the desire to groom (indoctrinate) Gays and Bi’s into becoming transgender is that you have never been able to give a plausible or reasonable explanation as to WHY “anyone” would want to do that?


  115. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 1:55 pm

    The BIG problem with your attempts to convince anyone of your claim that transgenders have as their agenda the desire to groom (indoctrinate) Gays and Bi’s into becoming transgender is that you have never been able to give a plausible or reasonable explanation as to WHY “anyone” would want to do that?

    I don't claim that.


  116. by islander on April 29, 2023 2:08 pm

    "I don't claim that. ~ Hate

    Google "weasel words", Hate LoL !!!

    Tell us what you found !! 🤣

    Never mind...I'll do it for you !!

    "Weasel words is an Americanism that paints a vivid picture of cowardly deception. Just as someone can be “smart like a fox,” the weasel’s sinewy body and quick movements give us a metaphor for cunning, sneaky behavior. But we get it, sometimes you’re just caught in a bind and need to find a way to weasel out of an awkward or undesirable situation."


  117. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 2:30 pm

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha baha baha baha.

    Since you're making stuff up, I'm sorta stuck.


  118. by oldedude on April 29, 2023 2:42 pm
    Yeah Lead, I haven't heard that from you... I guess I may have missed something po fabricated though... Apparently she's used to using weasel words.

    From merriam-webster dictionary; "a word used in order to evade or retreat from a direct or forthright statement or position." which she uses pretty often.
    merriam-webster.com


  119. by islander on April 29, 2023 2:47 pm

    The BIG problem with your attempts to convince anyone of your claim that transgenders have as their agenda the desire to groom (indoctrinate) Gays and Bi’s into becoming transgender is that you have never been able to give a plausible or reasonable explanation as to WHY “anyone” would want to do that?

    Weasel words ---> "I don't claim that. ~ Hate

    "I get the idea thatmany of them [GAG posters} were recruited/"groomed" (using their own word), by trans people, to be trans." ~ Hate

    So tell us, Hate, why do you think gays are groomed by trans people to be trans, and WHY “anyone” would want to do that?




  120. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 2:49 pm

    I don't think that. Duh!


  121. by islander on April 29, 2023 3:59 pm

    ”I get the idea thatmany of them were recruited/"groomed" (using their own word), by trans people, to be trans.” ~ Hate

    Weasel words----> “I don't think that. Duh!” ~ Hate


  122. by HatetheSwamp on April 29, 2023 4:20 pm

    Yeah, that's the claim of the GAG gang and why the name of the organization is Gays Against GROOMERS!

    Reading the GAG material, apparently lesbians and gays believe that trans people do their share of recruiting.

    I remember that the one comment I've made to, uh, Donna that really pi$$ed Donna off, is that it seems to me that trans people are running their own underground railroad, leading children and youth into the trans life. Donna took great umbrage. Apparently, I hit close to home because that's what GAG's all about.


  123. by HatetheSwamp on April 30, 2023 4:17 am

    So, pt and, uh, "Donna," et.al in the trans-phile world, tell me:

    1. That this sort of organized, public grooming is not common.
    2. You will, FINALLY, acknowledge it and condemn it.

    twitter.com


  124. by islander on April 30, 2023 5:13 am

    "Reading the GAG material, apparently lesbians and gays believe that trans people do their share of recruiting.". ~ Hate

    I have three questions for you Hate...When you say recruiting do you mean something different than when you say grooming?

    Also...Do you claim and/or believe trans try to recruit children?

    And last question...If they are what do you think they are trying to groom or recruit them for?

    No weasel words please...


  125. by HatetheSwamp on April 30, 2023 7:02 am

    These are constructive questions, isle. Thanks.

    Understand. As far as your questions are concerned, I have no opinion personally. At this point, I'm merely describing what I understand to be the message of the anti-TQ LGB groups...and activists. I'm most familiar with GAG and the group that calls itself "LGB." But, I'm discovering a large number of anti-TQ LGB activists who are highly motivated.

    When the anti-TQ LGBs describe grooming, that's the word they use..."Gays Against GROOMERS,"...they claim that, among children of the age humans achieve self-awareness of their sexuality, as children are becoming aware that they're LGBTQ-ish, trans people are lurking, attempting to convince these children that they actually are trans. And, reading what they write, and how they write, these anti-TQ LGBs are motivated and pi$$ed.

    I've posted to OD that I have no opinion about this. I can't. I'm straight. This is pure LGBTQ "inside baseball." I know, for certain, that there is an LGBTQ community of LGB people who are vehemently anti-TQ and who say things about TQs that any straight person would be viciously denounced for saying.

    These anti-TQ LGBs absolutely accuse trans people of recruiting children with an emerging awareness of their sexuality to be trans, not merely LGB.

    What's happening that I think is significant is that, up until recently, LGBTQ people could argue against the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps, calling them "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrats" who are homophobes.

    Suddenly, that's becoming not the case. The language of the anti-TQ LGBs is more ferocious than anything a social conservative straight person could say.

    Do trans people recruit? Groom? According to the anti-TQ LGBs? Absolutely.


  126. by oldedude on April 30, 2023 7:17 am
    Again, I'm going to mention the Wyoming case. I have maintained that trans would not be grooming for sexual gratification. It seems maybe, the sexual gratification in this case was just to groom. And since the district had the policy of not informing parents, the groomer, principal of that school, and the district are culpable for the act.

    Is this a "norm?" I think it's less so at this time than pedophiles (younger grades), and groomers later on. I do see this changing as it gets in to the new "norm."


  127. by Ponderer on April 30, 2023 8:45 am

    "GAG seems to me to be folks that are worried about sexual exploitation of children. That they're gay doesn't speak to me much. They're concerned PEOPLE." -olde dude

    Fair enough. But then why don't they educate themselves about the issue they are using to push a baseless agenda? Why are they so intent on demonizing an entire minority for something that isn't even happening?

    The old maxim "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" springs to mind.


    "You on the other hand, seem to be on board with the whole concept of making children objects of sexual exploitation." -olde dude

    Damn. You were off to such a good and rational start there, olde dude. You do have actually good points to make sometimes. But then you had to reflexively go and blow it by falling back to being a lying, fukking asshole, for which I can only beg you to go fukk yourself over.


    Donna and I have said this over and over again: ANYONE who sexually assaults or exploits children, they should be punished with the full weight and justice of the law. Lock them up and throw away the key. We in no way whatsoever support or condone the acts committed by such criminals. Apparently we can never be clear enough for you about that.

    But passing laws that will accomplish nothing but harming and endangering an entire innocent minority over the crimes committed by a tiny handful of miscreant degenerates, as the MAGA Republican party is dead set on doing, is the antithesis of what America is supposed to be about.


  128. by islander on April 30, 2023 8:50 am

    ”Understand. As far as your questions are concerned, I have no opinion personally. At this point, I'm merely describing what I understand to be the message of the anti-TQ LGB groups...and activists.” ~ Hate

    Ok...So the opinions on this subject that have been giving are somebody else’s. You are not speaking for yourself since you have no opinion.

    When you write, ”among children of the age humans achieve self-awareness of their sexuality, as children are becoming aware that they're LGBTQ-ish, trans people are lurking, attempting to convince these children that they actually are trans”, you don’t know if that is true or not and you have no opinion either way.

    When and if you ever do form an opinion on any of this then we might have something to discuss.


  129. by Ponderer on April 30, 2023 9:03 am

    "What amazes me, po, is that, at the beginning of Pride Month last year, GAG didn't even exist. Now it has waaaaaaay more than a quarter of a million Twitter followers. There's now serious, highly motivated opposition to the trans agenda from LGBs." -Hate

    I don't see why that amazes you. The problem of the "trans agenda" that GAG has seen fit to light their hair on fire about never existed to begin with. It's only since they came up with the online propaganda they started spouting that they were able to garner a lot of followers whose ignorance and bigotry matched their own.

    It's not surprising to me at all that GAG has been able to capture the attention of, by your numbers, the .0007% of this country's population who are as misguided, paranoid and bigoted as they are about this subject.


    I mean Bill, you do realize that on a pie chart, the portion of the American people you are placing so much emphasis and undeserved importance on would be little more than a barely perceptible sliver, don't you...?


  130. by HatetheSwamp on April 30, 2023 9:12 am

    isle,

    What's your own opinion...as a straight geezer.

    What I've been doing in these posts is to make the point that the trans political agenda is opposed by three enemies:

    1. Old school, Title IX, feminists.
    2. Anti-TQ LGBs.
    3. And, the "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrat" MAGAs that po and so many others want you to believe hate and oppose all LGBTQs, i.e., those much hated mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps whose evil is to want to raise the kids and without Big Brother oppression.

    Again. What's your view? Based on what?


  131. by Ponderer on April 30, 2023 9:16 am

    Something else that Hate and the other MAGA Republicans are apparently unaware of is that there has always been a small, outspoken portion of the "G", "L", and "B" community who are extremely antagonistic towards transgender folk. I've even met quite a few of them. Bigotry, hatred, and ignorance-based paranoia are not limited only to straight white people. It exists in any grouping of human beings you might care to assemble.

    That many of this tiny portion of the homosexual community would support and follow a Twitter site that shares their bigotry and hatred towards my community is in no way surprising or amazing.


  132. by islander on April 30, 2023 9:35 am

    "What's your own opinion...as a straight geezer." ~ Hate

    I'll simply re-post my questions to you and I'll give you my opinion.

    I have three questions for you Hate...When you say recruiting do you mean something different than when you say grooming?

    I think they are both the same.

    Also...Do you claim and/or believe trans try to recruit children?

    No, of course I don't believe that.

    And last question...If they are what do you think they are trying to groom or recruit them for?

    It would seem that the only thing they would be trying to do would be to make little boys want to become little girls and little girls want to become little boys which would be ridiculous.

    As you can see...No weasel words there...


  133. by HatetheSwamp on April 30, 2023 9:39 am

    Wow, gang. Understand what po's doing. Doing to "MAGA Republicans" what Hitler did to the Jews.

    Interesting. po has NEVER acknowledged that there's always been anti-TQ LGBs. Curious. Certainly. I'm thinking that we all know about conservative LGBs, even socially conservative LGBs. And, of course, those LGBs are bigots, haters, ignorant and paranoid. po's sooooo gracious.

    pb's point is that anti-TQ LGB-ism is a rapidly growing LGBTQ movement. GAG set up its account late during Pride Month just last year. At this moment it has 263 followers...UP 4,OOO FROM YESTERDAY.

    A year ago? GAG was literally nuthin.

    We all can accept or deny the fact that the trans political agenda is being challenged in ways it has never been. Not only by the conservative mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who merely want to raise their kids.

    Opposition is expanding.

    And, as I've been pointing out all along, all po offers for the cause is anger and hate.

    It ain't working. As numbers make plain.


  134. by HatetheSwamp on April 30, 2023 10:00 am

    Thanks for your answers, isle.

    But, as I asked, upon what, other than your own assumptions, are your opinions based?

    BTW, it seems that you want me to be accusing trans people of grooming...and, every other imaginable dastardly belief. I don't.

    I do think the political agenda is losing ground. Well, what honest person doesn't, considering all those laws passed in the last two months, some of which are considered "fascistic and disgusting."


  135. by Ponderer on April 30, 2023 10:48 am

    "Understand what po's doing. Doing to "MAGA Republicans" what Hitler did to the Jews." -Hate

    Wow. That has got to be my all-time favorite ridiculously idiotic attempt at an equitable comparison that you have ever presented here, Bill. BRAVO!


    Just because you the majority of what used to be known as the "Republican Party" that you currently belong to want to ignore and dismiss the fact that they have surrendered to and are now a wholly owned and controlled entity of Donald Trump and his political ambitions doesn't mean that the rest of the country isn't going to notice.

    Deal with reality for once in your life, Bill. What was the Republican Party until a few years ago is now the "MAGA Republican Party". Just ask current House Republican Majority Leader Charley McCarthy...



  136. by islander on April 30, 2023 11:49 am

    But, as I asked, upon what, other than your own assumptions, are your opinions based?” ~ Hate

    You say you have no opinion on whether there is a difference between grooming and recruiting even though you use them both.

    As I said, “my opinion” is that they basically mean the same thing as applied to this situation. The fundamentals or grooming and recruiting are the same.

    In my opinion trans are not out there trying to groom (or recruit) little kids because I can see no reasonable or rational reason why they would even want to.

    “BTW, it seems that you want me to be accusing trans people of grooming...and, every other imaginable dastardly belief. I don't.” ~ Hate

    I don’t think it’s important to you whether trans are grooming kids or not. Which is why you say you have no opinion on the truthfulness of the claim. Your goal, in my opinion is to get the idea that they are out there.


    I think the analogy I made earlier Mary Jane leans over the backyard fence and says to her neighbor, “Ellie told me that last week when Ed was up at his hunting camp, she saw his wife Sally go into the West Side motel with Charley is what you are doing. 

Mary Jane gets the idea that Sally is cheating on her husband (trans grooming kids in your case) out there. While avoiding responsibility for any damage done by saying, “I myself never claimed such a dastardly thing and I have no idea whether its true or not.” 



  137. by Ponderer on April 30, 2023 12:56 pm

    Thanks for the inspiration, Bill.

    (see your Facebook PMs...)


  138. by oldedude on April 30, 2023 6:25 pm
    I (well, the courts and federal agencies) have accused one queen of pedophilia, and one (maybe) trans of grooming a girl in WY. Both are actual cases in courts at this time. The "educator" can be charged with the same statues as anyone else that is grooming by someone that is in a trusted position. The drag queen is going down to 25 counts of child solicitation. If found guilty (which I hope for every pedophile) He'll be dead usually within 5 years, and definitely within 7-10. I'm okay with that.


  139. by Ponderer on May 1, 2023 12:03 am

    "I (well, the courts and federal agencies) have accused one queen of pedophilia, and one (maybe) trans of grooming a girl in WY." -olde dude


    So then arrest and try them! And if they are found guilty, imprison them for the required term!

    Why do my innocent trans siblings have to pay for the actions of those two with our civil and constitutional rights? Why must so many of the youngest of our community be condemned to die for what those two, or whatever the number of such heinous criminals is, did?


  140. by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 4:34 am

    Just because you the majority of what used to be known as the "Republican Party" that you currently belong to want to ignore and dismiss the fact that they have surrendered to and are now a wholly owned and controlled entity of Donald Trump and his political ambitions...

    po,

    You best better put that in a memo and send copies to Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins and Mitt Romney.

    You're so cute when you unleash your irrational hate. Bahahahahahahahahahaha baha!


  141. by oldedude on May 1, 2023 7:16 am
    "Why do my innocent trans siblings have to pay for the actions of those two with our civil and constitutional rights? Why must so many of the youngest of our community be condemned to die for what those two, or whatever the number of such heinous criminals is, did?"

    1. For the same reasoning you use to clump ALL Republicans into one group. You, of all people do it the most.

    2. Had you actually read my post(s), I stated this was the first time I had seen this. I have also stated numerous times that a groomer is a groomer and will use the easiest access to the chosen gender to get to them and groom them.

    3. I have continually stated that it is hiding what the schools are doing that is the most bothersome. Not filling parents in on what is going on in their childrens' lives I consider criminal. Grooming a child in school and not telling the parents is criminal. Especially when the groomer refuses to allow the victim to refuse the grooming. Again. CRIMINAL. I hope this sends a message to other districts and schools to quit hiding behind the curtain of sexual predation.

    Again, you support the predation by your actions. I'm beginning to appreciate GAG more and more because of your "arguments." So thanks for that.


  142. by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 7:50 am

    Grooming a child in school and not telling the parents is criminal. Especially when the groomer refuses to allow the victim to refuse the grooming. Again. CRIMINAL.

    Bang on, OD.

    Like you, as I dig into what the anti-TQ LGBs are saying...for me, that's GAG and "LGB," and I'm finding anti-TQ activists who consider themselves to have been recruited by trans groomers and who now think the quality of their lives has been DESTROYED,...I appreciate those arguments more and more.

    You're exactly right. po and, uh, Donna support criminal behavior! It's little wonder to me why the trans political has begun to lose ground and its losses are increasing exponentially.


  143. by Ponderer on May 1, 2023 8:10 am

    "You best better put that in a memo and send copies to Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins and Mitt Romney." -Hate

    Why? Do you think they like being members of what is now the MAGA Republican party...? Cheyney, along with others like her, were roundly voted out by Wyoming MAGA Hats because she wouldn't tow the MAGA Republican line.

    You think she hasn't been acutely aware that the MAGA Hats now control and dominate her political party for quite some time now?


  144. by Ponderer on May 1, 2023 8:17 am

    "For the same reasoning you use to clump ALL Republicans into one group." -olde dude

    I see. So because I so often blame the entire Republican party in this chatroom for so much that they in fact do, my trans siblings must therefore lose their civil and constitutional rights because of the actions of a handful of psychopaths. I see.


    I wish to God that there was some way that you two could comprehend, even just for one second, just how astoundingly asinine and boundlessly stupid your attempts at an equitable comparison always look.


  145. by Ponderer on May 1, 2023 8:20 am

    "I have also stated numerous times that a groomer is a groomer" -olde dude

    Thank you, olde dude! I just knew that some MAGA Hat here would eventually define that term they are so enamored with.

    🙄


  146. by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 8:24 am

    po,

    I think that you need to sit down and take a few sips of a nice wine...

    ...or, maybe guzzle some Bud Light bahahahahahahahahahaha baha baha baha.

    You're coming across as particularly irrational today. Jus sayin.


  147. by Ponderer on May 1, 2023 8:32 am

    There's that world famous MAGA Republican projection again!

    You really need some new material.


  148. by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 9:08 am

    Just trying to be helpful.


  149. by islander on May 1, 2023 9:10 am

    Ponderer ~

    Keep in mind, even Hate doesn’t believe the stuff he’s posting here about trans groomers etc. 

He says he has no idea if it’s true or if it’s false. He say’s he’s just repeating stuff that ‘somebody else' said...stuff that he’s heard or read.

    In Hate’s own words:

    it seems that you want me to be accusing trans people of grooming...and, every other imaginable dastardly belief. I don't.

    When I asked him point blank:

    So tell us, Hate, why do you think gays are groomed by trans people to be trans, and WHY “anyone” would want to do that?

    Hate’s reply:



    I don't think that. Duh!

    HAte is a practitioner of deception through the use of weasel words.

    ”A weasel word, or anonymous authority, is an informal term for words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that something specific and meaningful has been said, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated. Examples include the phrases "some people say", "it is thought", and "researchers believe". Using weasel words may allow one to later deny any specific meaning if the statement is challenged, because the statement was never specific in the first place. Weasel words can be a form of tergiversation and may be used in advertising, (popular) science, opinion pieces and political statements to mislead or disguise a biased view or unsubstantiated claim.”

    en.wikipedia.org


  150. by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 9:46 am

    No, isle.

    I have a cyber acquaintance with po and, uh, Donna through SS. Beyond that, I've met exactly one person...in person...in all my born days, who identifies as transgender...

    ...and, here's the thing...

    I ain't progressive. I don't get to claim to be omniscient.

    I can describe to you fairly well what anti-TQ LGBs are claiming about trans grooming. But, you know d@ng well, po denies those claims.

    What's true? My guess is that po's blowing smoke but I don't know.

    What I also know is that you're coming across as being frustrated with me because I claim not to know what to believe.

    Sorry, buddy. I ain't progressive. I don't feign omniscience. I'm a libertarian.


  151. by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 10:08 am

    FYI, gang, the number of GAG followers on Twitter is up another 2k since yesterday.

    pb predicts that 365 days into GAG's existence...near the end of Pride Month...GAG'll have more than 365,000 Twitter followers.

    This anti-TQ LGB movement is catching fire!


  152. by islander on May 1, 2023 3:14 pm

    Hate,

    Like I said, you’re a practitioner of deception through the use of weasel words.. It’s not flattering but it’s true.

    You know what weasel words means now but part of the definition for weasel words explains how using weasel words can be a form of tergiversation. If you don’t know what that means, it’s the evasion of a straightforward clear-cut statement as in ambiguity and deliberate evasion in speech...like many politicians,
    I asked you some straightforward questions but you evaded answering them with, “I've posted to OD that I have no opinion about this. I can't. I'm straight. This is pure LGBTQ "inside baseball." You then asked me to give you my answers to those questions I asked you which I did in a clear and straight forward manner. I’m straight but that doesn’t mean I don’t have opinions on this.

    And then because I asked you a few simple questions, you wrote,”it seems that you want me to be accusing trans people of grooming...and, every other imaginable dastardly belief. I don't.

    No. I simply wanted to know if you believe that trans people are guilty of grooming and, “every other imaginable dastardly belief”, that you have been posting about here. 

Finally you said that you don’t believe they are true and despite having been denying it you actually do have an opinion about them.

    My next question to you is why are you so obsessed with posting all these denigrating accusations you find online about trans people?

    Accusations that have been made about trans people grooming children and all those other dastardly things when yourself said don’t know much about trans people and you don’t even believe those accusations are true?... Do you happily post them possibly out of mean spiritedness? Or perhaps to cast doubts in other people’s minds, causing them to see trans people in a bad light?? A decent person wouldn’t do things like that to other people.


  153. by oldedude on May 1, 2023 3:31 pm
    The one that I posted is pretty much fact, since he was arrested and is now pending trial.


  154. by HatetheSwamp on May 1, 2023 5:32 pm

    isle,

    Sorry, buddy, but I'm being perfectly honest and trans---parent. I don't have nearly enuff information to conclude that trans people are grooming. Certainly, they're widely accused of it.

    What we both know if we're familiar with Libs of TikTok is that trans-philes in public schools, seriously recruiting children toward being trans. But, being the serious seeker of truth that you are, I can't remember seeing any of that recruiting being done by people who, in the videos appear to be trans. You?

    They all seem to be trans-philes: People such as yourself who are white, progressive, straight, limousine liberals who encourage kiddies to think of themselves as trans...as a matter of conscience.

    Trans people? I've been perfectly straightforward. I dunno.

    What impresses me is the anger of the increasingly large anti-TQ LGB community. Those folks are vicious in their accusations of trans grooming. But, me personally?, informed well enuff to know? No.

    In the spirit of Jesus's, "Judge not, or you, too, will be judged," I won't condemn trans people too harshly or quickly.

    But, tell us, isle. What do you think of the anti-TQ LGBs accusations of trans grooming? Do you think they're lying? If so, why do you think they're lying?


  155. by islander on May 2, 2023 5:30 am

    Hate wrote:
”Sorry, buddy, but I'm being perfectly honest and trans---parent. I don't have nearly enuff information to conclude that trans people are grooming. Certainly, they're widely accused of it.” <--------Weasel words

    If you don’t have enough information to conclude or even form any kind of opinion as to whether transpeople are “grooming”, to use the incendiary buzzword of right-wing rhetoric, and you cannot even imagine why they’d want to do that....But you are still joyfully spreading false propaganda from hate groups that are your major source of information this tells us something about you.

    Decent people with integrity and character would never engage in such dishonest tactics like you do.

    You won’t debate whether transpeople actually are “grooming” anybody or why they would even want to. You say you don’t even have enough information to form an opinion on such questions...yet you fill your posts with propaganda maligning trans people...That alone confirms to me what kind of person you are and it’s not very flattering. As I said, “Decent people with integrity would never engage in such dishonest tactics in order to malign another group of people.

    It’s one thing to debate politics or philosophy but what you are doing here is ugly.



  156. by HatetheSwamp on May 2, 2023 5:38 am

    You won’t debate whether transpeople actually are “grooming” anybody or why they would even want to.

    Huh

    Of course I'll DEBATE it.

    That has nuthin to do with me having a firm opinion about it.


  157. by HatetheSwamp on May 2, 2023 6:34 am

    isle,

    This is the sort of thing that shows up on the GAG Twitter page:


    "It is absolutely absurd that the LGBT message 10 years ago, that said feminine boys and masculine girls are perfect the way they are, has turned into a gross reinforcement of strict gender stereotypes by encouraging gender nonconforming children to be trans. Wild.

    *****

    This little guy (me) loved Barbies, pink, and princesses. He was not in the wrong body. It breaks my heart to know what the left is doing to boys like me today., We must fight for the little Ryans out there 🙏🏻"

    Check out the link.


    As I say, isle, this sort post appears on the anti-TQ LGB Twitter pages from time to time.

    I'm not in the LGBTQ community. What's obvious these days it's not all sweetness and light. There's tension. Genuine, fierce anger.

    Opposition ain't entirely from po's hate-mongering "Christian theocrats."

    Look at Ryan's naive and innocent face. That admittedly flamboyantly effeminate little boy who was content to love Barbie, the color pink and princesses...and to be that AS A BOY. Now, as a man says, "It breaks my heart to know what the left is doing to boys like me today."

    He doesn't say how his heart was broken. Was he groomed? Dunno.

    What I know from the anti-TQ LGB groups and activists is that a movement is forming among LGBs who share that experience and broken heartedness.

    But, what strikes me from the tweet is that Ryan does blame the trans community. He decries "what the (effin) LEFT is doing to boys like me..."

    Could he mean woke, progressive limousine liberal, not trans people, but trans-philes like you?

    I don't know that. What I do know is that many LGBs today are fiercely angry about being oppressed by others in the LGBTQ community...and its supporters, like you.
    twitter.com


  158. by islander on May 2, 2023 7:47 am

    Hate wrote:
    ”Of course I'll DEBATE it.”

    Ok...The first thing we need to clear up is what “grooming” means to you before we can argue whether or not transpeople and school administers are grooming kids.

    Letting kids learn about transpeople in order to better understand who they are and why they should not be stigmatized and/or denied any of the rights we all have is not grooming (my position).

    The goal is to help kids see that there is nothing wrong with a person who is gay or trans. I’m using “gay” to include both sexes. This attitude that there is something wrong with transpeople is the same thing gays have had to face in our society and we’ve made some good progress in overcoming this attitude since the period when I was growing up. However we still have a ways to go.

    What is your definition of grooming when you talk about the grooming that school administrators and transpeople are supposedly doing to kids?



  159. by Ponderer on May 2, 2023 8:00 am

    "Letting kids learn about transpeople in order to better understand who they are and why they should not be stigmatized and/or denied any of the rights we all have is not grooming (my position)." -Isle

    Spot on, Isle. Bullseye. Your position is very American.


  160. by oldedude on May 2, 2023 10:01 am
    Like I said above, I agree with that. The difference between "these people exist" and for the umpteenth time, being groomed without the knowledge of the parents (for any type of sexual activity) is wrong.

    You don't start math at the quantum level, why are people insisting this starts there also?


  161. by HatetheSwamp on May 2, 2023 11:52 am

    Ok...The first thing we need to clear up is what “grooming” means to you before we can argue whether or not transpeople and school administers are grooming kids.

    Argue, eh? Hmm.

    What it means to me. Me? Groovy.

    I've posted about this several times. I see three ways grooming may be understood.

    1. The creepy, perverted, dirty old man, Arte Johnson from LAUGH IN definition. That doesn't fit in this context.
    2. A synonym for mentoring.
    3. A synonym for recruiting.

    Since I'm not suggesting that trans people groom, none apply to what I think...as far as trans people are concerned.

    Otoh, what the anti-TQ LGBs rail against is some 2 and some 3...but, mostly 2. Recruiting. UNWANTED recruiting.

    What is your definition of grooming when you talk about the grooming that school administrators and transpeople are supposedly doing to kids?

    When **I** talk about? Did you learn how to ask, "Do you still beat your wife," questions from po? You're good.

    What I see on Libs of TikTok is, primarily, teachers of young children, K through, say, 4th grade/5th, recruiting those youngsters, usually behind the backs of their mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps, to think about themselves not in terms of their biological gender. As I said, this grooming appears to be being done by woke, progressive, limousine liberal trans-philes, not by trans people themselves.

    My guess is that committed, woke, progressive, limousine liberal trans-phile activists outnumber trans people, what?, 10-20 to 1. It seems to me that they are the trans evangelists.


  162. by islander on May 2, 2023 1:26 pm
    My question was: “What is your definition of grooming when you talk about the grooming that school administrators and transpeople are supposedly doing to kids?”

    Hate asks: ”When **I** talk about? Did you learn how to ask, "Do you still beat your wife," questions from po? You're good. “ <--- Weasel words

    Yes! What you’ve been talking about talk about is the grooming that school administrators and transpeople are supposedly doing to kids! Exactly what you are talking about in your posts here on SS and just like you and I are talking (debating/arguing) about right now.

    ”Since I'm not suggesting that trans people groom, none apply to what I think...as far as trans people are concerned.

    Good...Mark this down. You don’t think transpeople are grooming kids...Good start.

    What I see on Libs of TikTok is, primarily, teachers of young children, K through, say, 4th grade/5th, recruiting those youngsters, usually behind the backs of their mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps, to think about themselves not in terms of their biological gender.”

    I’m not here debating anyone on TikTok!

    

If you and I are to debate this issue regarding grooming, you have to give me a clear explanation of your position on this.

    I’ve clearly stated my position: It’s, “Letting kids learn about transpeople in order to better understand who they are and why they should not be stigmatized and/or denied any of the rights we all have”, and “this”, not recruiting kids for sexual purposes or exploitation, is what the the haters you have been using as your source are calling "grooming".


  163. by HatetheSwamp on May 2, 2023 1:32 pm

    Here's a word that you may understand. It's a good ol Greek word. Agnostic.

    I'm agnostic on trans grooming...no matter how many ways you attempt to mischaracterize my statements.


  164. by islander on May 2, 2023 1:49 pm

    I don't blame you for not wanting to debate this.


  165. by HatetheSwamp on May 3, 2023 4:34 am

    What I never UNDERSTAND at times like this is why you resort to lying to me about myself.


  166. by Ponderer on May 3, 2023 6:09 am

    "I'm agnostic on trans grooming..." -Hate

    Uh huh.

    So... is that why you have apparently made it something of a religious quest to push the notion in here that trans grooming must be a nation-threatening real thing because so many people (i.e. .0007% of the population) think it is...? Is that why GAG has become your Oracle of Truth and Reality on the subject...? And why you totally discount and ignore anything that Donna and I, with decades personal experience on trans issues, tell you about the subject?

    In a pig's fukking eye you're agnostic on "trans grooming". You've done nothing in here but champion the very idea of it without a shred of doubt or reflection on your stance.

    You hide behind whatever you can find others saying about it that tows the line you want towed, to the exclusion of any other opinions or facts presented about it.

    You aren't "agnostic" on the topic of trans grooming. A far more accurate term for what you are on the subject is an "asshole". And a pretty cowardly one at that.


  167. by HatetheSwamp on May 3, 2023 7:12 am

    Uh uh, po. I do take your anecdotes very seriously.

    I also take your "Christian theocrats" hate-speech seriously. And Donna's claim that much of the legislation supported by mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps is "fascistic and disgusting."

    What's indisputable these days is that the trans political agenda is opposed by:

    Old-school feminists,
    A growing movement among anti-TQ LGBs (BTW, GAG picked up 3,000 Twitter followers since yesterday), and
    Mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who want nuthin more than to be involved in their kid's education.

    I don't know what to think about trans grooming but I do wonder where the anti-TQ movement comes from if there ain't none.


  168. by HatetheSwamp on May 3, 2023 7:18 am

    BTW, I just saw that Jaimee Mitchell, founder of GAG, is a supporter of Ron DeSantis.

    And, she is a babe. Too bad that she plays for t'other team.


  169. by Ponderer on May 3, 2023 7:37 am

    "I don't know what to think about trans grooming" -Hate

    Boy, you are really taxing the heck out of pig's eyes today.

    We all know exactly what you think about it, Bill. You are hiding nothing from us. You're as transparent as saran wrap.


  170. by HatetheSwamp on May 3, 2023 7:41 am

    What, exactly, do I think about it?


  171. by Ponderer on May 3, 2023 7:54 am

    You think about it the same way that everything you elusively post about it suggests you do.

    You have shown absolutely no open mind about the subject whatsoever. You argue for and circulate only what a tiny, bigoted handful of people think about it while giving no consideration at all to any other opinions or what anyone else thinks about it. Even experts on the subject.

    I know how existentially important it is to you to put forth what you think is an open-minded, non-biased front. But you seriously need to understand that you are an utter failure at it.


  172. by Ponderer on May 3, 2023 7:55 am

    I meant to type exclusively in that last post. But elusively may actually be more apt.


  173. by HatetheSwamp on May 3, 2023 7:55 am

    What EXACTLY do I think?


  174. by islander on May 3, 2023 7:58 am

    ”What I never UNDERSTAND at times like this is why you resort to lying to me about myself.” ~ Hate

    Now that you have made your position more clear (I think?), it "appears" that you don’t actually agree with the anti-trans propaganda were beginning to see out there.

    I think your misunderstanding about me comes from the fact that I’d been convinced that you agreed with all the BS and assorted disinformation regarding transgenderism and the false transgender agenda being attributed to them that you have been posting here. When in fact you were only informing of the most recent false propaganda and the recent vigorous anti-trans crusade that right wing radicals and many of your fellow Republican politicians have suddenly embarked on.

    Do you have any ideas as to what we can do to combat their efforts to anger people and turn their rage into the kinds of attacks on transgenders that you have been revealing to us?

    I think we all realize they are doing this for political gain so I think it's important that we all stand up and expose them what they are doing...Don't you?


  175. by HatetheSwamp on May 3, 2023 8:06 am

    isle,

    I've been saying all along that the first thing that must happen is for trans people and, to a lesser degree, trans-philes, to drop their hate-speech. Even Donna calls much of the legislation sincerely supported by the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps "fascistic and disgusting."

    By all means, oppose it. Fight against it. But, the hateful rhetoric has to stop. The mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps are devoted parents and grandparents. They're not fascists. And, to call them disgusting? Deplorable.


  176. by Ponderer on May 3, 2023 8:26 am

    "What EXACTLY do I think?" -Hate

    Bill, I am telling you what everything you post tells us essentially what you think. I am not going any deeper or more detailed than that. I can't, as I am not a psychiatrist and you are not my patient.

    But everything you have posted here over the years leaves little chance of any of us missing the basic gist of what you think on any topic you "discuss". That's all I have been saying.


  177. by HatetheSwamp on May 3, 2023 8:36 am

    Just noting, po.

    We all know exactly what you think about it, Bill. You are hiding nothing from us. You're as transparent as saran wrap.


  178. by islander on May 3, 2023 8:58 am

    ”I've been saying all along that the first thing that must happen is for trans people and, to a lesser degree, trans-philes, to drop their hate-speech.” ~ Hate

    I think all of us here on SS are aware that what you are describing as hate speech is the reaction to the lies and disinformation that is being spread about transgenders by those on the right.

    I think the best solution to the problem is to stop it at its source. 

Once we can accomplish that (stop the spreading of lies about them) the anger being expressed by the transgenders who are the ones being hurt by such lies will no longer exist, and the anger directed at transgenders by those who believed the lies will no longer exist as well.

    That means we have to expose the lies about transgenders and the phony trans-agenda for what they are, and this is one place we can do just that for starters !

    Are you with us ?



  179. by HatetheSwamp on May 3, 2023 9:05 am

    isle,

    My take on this is that you progressives are the truly enlightened among us and if there's going to be peace, you are going to have to be the peacemakers. Such is the burden of enlightenment...

    ...but, I think that you're up to the challenge.


  180. by islander on May 3, 2023 9:11 am

    Hate,

    I agree with you 100% 🍻


  181. by HatetheSwamp on May 3, 2023 9:14 am

    Mark the date and time on your calendar.


  182. by HatetheSwamp on May 4, 2023 4:09 am

    This is as direct and concise a statement of GAG's political vision as I can imagine. It comes from its Illinois chapter:

    "All the groomer cult has to do is leave kids alone. That's it. This is such a simple request. But they refuse. Because their entire cult is built around consuming kids.

    They're never going to stop. They have to BE stopped."


    Two comments.

    1. It's harsh. Being agnostic on trans grooming, I suspect that this is hyperbole but, as agnostics are...by definition...I'm still open-minded.
    2. GAG and the other anti-TQ LGB groups and activists are making headway at the moment because their message is, actually, more anti Big Brother than anti-TQ.


  183. by HatetheSwamp on May 4, 2023 4:44 am

    This is big. It fits the spirit of the times:

    The death of foisting: Judge rejects Montana lawmaker Zooey Zephyr’s bid to overturn removal from House floor


    Montana state Rep. Zooey Zephyr (D), who was censured and barred from the House floor by state Republicans, cannot yet return to the chamber, a judge ruled Tuesday.

    The judge rejected a motion from Zephyr, one of the state’s first openly transgender lawmakers, and her lawyers to allow her to return to the House floor and participate in debate, according to the Associated Press.


    Zephyr was censured and barred from the House in April for the remainder of the 2023 legislative session for criticizing Republican colleagues who voted for a bill in the state that would ban gender-affirming care for minors. She told the lawmakers they would have “blood on your hands.”


    I don't know if you've been following this. Check the link for more info.

    This is classic woke, not only LGBTism, woke-ism.

    Get a judge to foist on the rest of us what it can't achieve through "the people and their representatives."

    So, this Montana lawmaker ejaculated, po style, trans hate rhetoric...threatening violence on people who disagree, received a justified response...then asked a judge to make the rest of the legislature to play by his/her rules.

    And, nuh uh!

    The judge was sane enough...effin CONSTITUTIONAL enough...to acknowledge that the judicial branch can't run the legislature.

    A woke foist-fail.

    This classic woke politics in an age where the tide has turned. The spirit of Dobbs decision has, suddenly, overtaken America.

    "THE PEOPLE AND THEIR effin REPRESENTATIVES!"

    Baha baha bahahahahahahahahahaha baha baha baha!

    As Lincoln said, "of the people, by the people and for the people."

    LET FREEDOM RING!
    thehill.com


  184. by Ponderer on May 4, 2023 7:20 am

    Bill, I'm betting that we all here know you love your wife a tremendously great deal. I'm sure that you know and feel in your heart and soul exactly how much you love her.

    So please, tell us EXACTLY how much you love her...


    It is possible for someone to intuitively and with all available evidence know something exactly, yet not be able to describe it exactly. But then, this is a nuance that I fully do not expect you to comprehend.



  185. by HatetheSwamp on May 4, 2023 8:12 am

    Then choose your words with care.

    Take a few slow, deep breaths.

    I have definite opinions about about the trans political agenda. It's woke and Big Brother to the core. Of course, I oppose it wholeheartedly and without reservation...for political reasons.

    As I've noted to both of you, I wish you well, personally. You should take heart over the ease with which Caitlyn Jenner operates in the Fox News universe. Very few people, even radically right-wing people oppose trans people.

    The trans political agenda is another matter. People on the right oppose few things more than the trans political agenda. Hence, the explosion, just this year, of all of that legislation.


    As far as trans grooming is concerned? I know that anti-TQ LGBs are up in arms about it, and I imagine that there's something to all of that.

    I have two thoughts about it:

    1. This strikes at the heart of who anti-TQ LGBs are. They are EXTREMELY emotional about it...as, of course, are you. I encounter little that's rational, on your side or theirs.
    2. Even the anti-TQ LGBs don't, as far as I know, make the accusation that there's organized grooming of young LGBs by you lot...only that many of them feel pressured by trans people and trans-philes like isle.


  186. by Ponderer on May 4, 2023 8:49 am

    "As I've noted to both of you, I wish you well, personally. You should take heart over the ease with which Caitlyn Jenner operates in the Fox News universe. Very few people, even radically right-wing people oppose trans people." -Hate

    Yet you throw this "very few people" of which GAG is an even tinier fraction of in our faces as if they are the arbiters of all things righteous and American. Dear God. The bubble you live in is as tight as a wetsuit on you.


    "Even the anti-TQ LGBs don't, as far as I know, make the accusation that there's organized grooming of young LGBs by you lot...only that many of them feel pressured by trans people" -Hate

    Jesus Fukking God, Bill. The MAGA Republican party in several states is currently enacting laws in their books to stop their perceived "onslaught" of said "organized grooming" of children by means of this absurd "trans political agenda" you and they keep hallucinating about in their states. Don't you follow any news at all???


  187. by HatetheSwamp on May 4, 2023 9:35 am

    Yet you throw this "very few people" of which GAG is an even tinier fraction of in our faces as if they are the arbiters of all things righteous and American.

    No. Not at all. Donna was the first here to mention these more than 3,000 bills being proposed in 33 states.

    Your reality has changed markedly since Pride Month 022. Face it.

    You'd have been close a year ago to accuse opposition to the trans political agenda as being "Christian theocrat." You'd have been exaggerating. But, it was mostly white and politically conservative, and substantially religious.

    But, not no more...by a looooooooong shot.

    This Lia Thomas stuff has riled Title IX old-school feminists. And, like it or not, since last June a small mountain of anti-TQ activists and organizations have arisen...suddenly. And, these people are pu$$ed. AT YOUR TEAM. As of this moment, GAG has 269,000 followers on Twitter...and, those people are radical. And, it appeared on Twitter near the end of Pride Month.

    The trans political agenda is now tenaciously opposed by a three headed monster that didn't even exist a year ago. You can be as sanctimonious about this as you like. But, it's true.

    To be clear, I'm not throwing this in your faces. I'm describing it. Period.

    You can pretend that it's MAGA Republican people who have set out against "organized grooming." But, pb actually watches the MAGA rallies. Grooming ain't a hot-button MAGA issue. Trust ol pb.


  188. by Ponderer on May 4, 2023 9:45 am

    "No. Not at all. Donna was the first here to mention these more than 3,000 bills being proposed in 33 states." -Hate

    And the MAGA Republican politicians who championed those bills constitute what percentage of the American people again...?


  189. by Ponderer on May 4, 2023 9:47 am
    .






    "Grooming ain't a hot-button MAGA issue." -Hate








    🤨






    Your detachment from reality is complete and total.


  190. by HatetheSwamp on May 4, 2023 9:56 am

    I only know what I know from watching many MAGA rallies but, po, I'd be happy for you to educate me.

    There's no doubt that opposition to the trans political agenda is growing by leaps and bounds in terms of the number of people involved in it and, certainly, in their commitment and motivation. I just don't see MAGAs being at the heart of it...

    ...but, if you get comfort from leveling the accusation? Have at it.


  191. by HatetheSwamp on May 4, 2023 10:10 am

    po,

    Just curious. Until recent posts, you'd been blaming "Christian theocrats." Now, your villain is MAGA Republicans.

    Are these two names for the same monster?


  192. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 4:43 am

    This is a representative tweet from the LGB Twitter page, which describes itself as:

    "A youth movement to separate LGB and TQ."

    It explains, "LGB is only about same-sex attraction, & TQ is about'gender identity.' Sex matters."

    This contention that LGB and TQ are distinctly different phenomena is becoming increasingly common among LGBs...and that TQs and IAs and +s horned in on their movement...and are, very much, unwelcome.

    The LGB gang is as offended by the "transcult" kid in the video as any of the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps would be. It seems, if you're LGB and not woke, you probably hate TQs more than the "Christian theocrats."


    Anyway,...

    "Trans cult has an anger issue, amplified by the hormones they pump into their bodies. In every video, or tweet, they are aggressively shouting and abusing. Their answer to any question is a death threat."

    Be sure to watch the video.

    #transrage
    twitter.com


  193. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 5:31 am

    Clay and Buck video. Middle age white guy, "living life as true self " identities as a "lesbian woman of color."

    He?, notes self to be only "LGBTQIAPC+" member of the council.

    This is a true bahahahahahahahahahaha baha baha moment in history.

    Clay calls the Council, uh Person, "a true hero."

    If you're woke?, you invited this. Tens of millions are laughing...AT you!

    pb thinks we're watching woke hegemony crumble under the weight of its own absurd sanctimony...before our very eyes.
    twitter.com


  194. by oldedude on May 5, 2023 5:31 am
    Item #193...

    Again. Donna thanks for explaining your position. Had the community kept to that marketing you would have been miles ahead at this point. People may not agree, but like me "I can live with that" and move on with my life. Let them do them.

    It's the attacks and threats of severe bodily harm and death that make this different (ala Michigan communications director, et al). It would also make a difference if the threats weren't carried out. I also question why we're not seeing the Nashville shooter's manifesto. I'm sure if this was some racist whakjob it would be all over the news. But in this case, they're protecting it. I don't understand that unless there are others involved in the case. dunno. It's not like she's going to court.

    In FL news. Guy who killed four people plea bargained to Four consecutive life sentences. Why? not to be put on the express line for the death penalty.


  195. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 6:18 am

    OD,

    My sense is that the culture has mainstreamed the LGB community, many of whom, politically, are moderate and conservative, and they just want to get along in America, and they can. Easily. You are familiar with the gay Guy Curt never heard of. He's very white bread. He's the prototype of the LGBs in the 020s.

    And, the raging trans kid in #192, is typical po trans rage, and LGBs just want nuthin to do with that.

    You probably have observed Caitlyn Jenner on Fox. She?, fits comfortably...among very conservative people.

    I don't get where the transrage comes from. I don't think it's necessary. It's not necessary for Jenner...

    ...except it's probably woke trans people who are pi$$ed. And, being pi$$ed is what the woke do.


  196. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 7:10 am

    "My sense is that the culture has mainstreamed the LGB community, many of whom, politically, are moderate and conservative, and they just want to get along in America, and they can. Easily." -Hate

    Well, not in Fascist Florida it won't be easy. And it's getting worse every day.

    Bill, I suppose you would find it "easy" to suddenly have to use the women's restroom in many public places? Do you think your wife would find it "easy" to use public men's rooms?
    selectsmart.com


  197. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 8:09 am

    I'm pretty sure that my wife'd be very uncomfortable if people-with-nuts, claiming to identify as women, were walking into her public biffy. Very, very uncomfortable.


  198. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 8:29 am

    What the fukk was I doing.

    I should have known what a pointless and hopeless endeavor trying to wring even a drop of empathy out of you was.


  199. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 8:36 am

    Empathy? po! No one in the history of all my many days on SS, has belched hate like you do! It seems to me that you give better than you get.

    This is my ongoing point to you. You all are hurting your cause by spewing anger and hate. You've set the tone. You're getting what you asked for!


  200. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 9:03 am

    And no one on SelectSmart has ever shown a more non-existant level of empathy as you do.

    And nothing I ever post in here will ever affect my cause in the slightest, microscopic degree.

    As I said. It is all for YOU, Bill.........


  201. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 9:08 am

    But I see. We are all being hateful, so therefore it must be made illegal for us to use our correct bathrooms.

    Bill, your MAGA Republican logic is the stupidest form of "logic" on the planet.


  202. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 9:11 am

    "I'm pretty sure that my wife'd be very uncomfortable if people-with-nuts, claiming to identify as women, were walking into her public biffy." -Hate

    Well I'm pretty uncomfortable knowing that your wife apparently checks for such things in public restrooms.


  203. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 9:27 am

    But at least I am glad that she'd be fine sharing a bathroom with Donna or myself. We ain't got no nuts.

    (And no, we won't let her check)


  204. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 9:27 am

    And nothing I ever post in here will ever affect my cause in the slightest, microscopic degree.

    As I said. It is all for YOU, Bill.........


    My point all along has been that Donna and you perfectly reflect the rhetoric of the whole effin trans community. All any of you have is bitterness, anger and hate. My assertion is that that's why you are losing ground...even, especially...with LGBTs.

    And, you are. And,...

    ...you can't seem to help yourselves.


  205. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 10:53 am

    Your kind is in the process of trying to destroy our constitutional and civil rights.

    And you don't want us to react angrily about it...?

    This is why you need to go fukk yourself, Bill.


    "I'm pretty sure that my wife'd be very uncomfortable if people-with-nuts, claiming to identify as women, were walking into her public biffy." -Hate

    And so then I'm sure that she would be perfectly comfortable with this trans-man washing his hands in the restroom sink next to her, since he doesn't have any nuts...?

    You see how stupid and ridiculously asinine these cruel laws are?




  206. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 12:44 pm

    po,

    My point is that, in this, uh, democracy, baha baha, your hate speech is losing you friends and allowing t'other side to influence people.

    It's also suggestive of the possibility that you got nuthin of substance to use to make your point.


  207. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 1:22 pm

    "My point is that, in this, uh, democracy, baha baha, your hate speech is losing you friends and allowing t'other side to influence people." -Hate

    I'd hate to learn that I had lost you as a friend, Bill. But what I say in here has no effect on any friends I have, or anyone else in the outside world whatsoever for that matter. So I have little fear of what you're saying being the case.


    This is our playground in here, Bill! I express myself any way I want to with without any fear of it ever being widespread. Not that I'd be devastated or anything if it ever was. As I mentioned, I use this place as a gym and you are my favorite punching bag.

    I'm sure that you are doing essentially the same thing in here with me and Donna. But Bill, you can say anything you want to in here. You can be as true to yourself and your beliefs as you want to be!

    That's partly why I've always wondered why you never avail yourself of such freedom in here. Fear and embarrassment are tremendously strong emotions for you I suspect.

    Transitioning sure as heck cures you of that real quick, not that I'm recommending it for you.



  208. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 1:48 pm

    po,

    You and I have a unique relationship here. It brings me much joy.

    But, as that video in #192 reveals, trans rhetoric in the real world is angry and hateful and violent, and the anti-TQ LGBs take advantage of it.


  209. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 2:28 pm
    Against my better judgement, I just watched the video you referred to.

    One transgender person... in one video... reacting to being pestered by transphobic, anti-trans propagandists. That person was under no obligation to answer their questions. They were obviously mad at being pestered like that. I actually thought their reaction to those assholes was pretty tame compared to what she was reacting to. Why must we treat flaming assholes with kid gloves, Bill?

    One person, Bill. And you know what? I don't care how many more videos you can ever post of 1/380,000,000th of the population being angry at anything as if it's supposed to represent an entire community's beliefs and agendas.


    You know, this has been a serious, fatal flaw of MAGA Republicans like you. You focus on one tiny handful of people acting the way you want to use as an example to condemn an entire subgroup of the population. You do it all the time. OH MY GOD! There were two guys in that riot who were wearing BLM shirts! The entire organization is nothing but domestic terrorists!!! OH MY GOD! These six cases of people ever voting illegally means that Biden didn't actually win by 7,000,000 votes!!!

    I've seen a video of a MAGA Republican (Although I think they may have still just been "Republicans" back then) politician actually choke and slam a real reporter to the ground who was trying to interview them. So therefore I now get to proclaim that such violent, hateful, angry, and criminal action from that one MAGA Republican represents "MAGA Republican Rhetoric in the real world"...?

    Did you seriously think that you were pathetically making some sort of valid point with that video Bill...? Geez, I pity you far more than I did before I watched it.




  210. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 2:40 pm

    So, po/Donna, Excuse me for being dense. I inherited that from both sides of the family. Baha.

    Is the Indiana law "fascistic and disgusting?"

    INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Indiana’s governor on Thursday signed a bill that will require schools to notify a parent if a student requests a name or pronoun change at school, one of the final bills approved in a legislative session that had targeted LGBTQ+ people in the state, especially students.

    Critics worry the law could out transgender children to their families and erode trust between students and teachers while supporters have contested the legislation keeps parents empowered and informed about their children when at school.


    A long article. This is just the start.



    apnews.com


  211. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 2:57 pm

    One transgender person... in one video... reacting to being pestered by transphobic, anti-trans propagandists.

    po, I suspect that you are misunderstanding the context but that aside, as isle'd say, you don't UNDERSTAND.

    I'm always discussing the politics. The video was posted by anti-TQ LGB group, LGB.

    These anti-TQ LGB groups and activists go waaaaaaay beyond what "Christian theocrats" would ever dream of saying/doing. They're vicious. At times, they offend ME. In this video, LGB is arguing that this is what all gay and lesbian children could become if the trans political agenda prevails. LGB is claiming that this is typical, not isolated.

    And, as I've said, I have no idea who's right in this. I have no skin in the game. I'm a straight geezer. Whatever position I have is, essentially, academic. It's theoretical. Libertarian. Wanting the rights of parents to be preserved from Big Brother intrusion. (I, of course, do vote.)

    Again, what's new is the presence of the growing, insanely committed anti-TQ LGB movement. Give them a year and you'll wish for the good old days when you could insult MAGA Republicans and "Christian theocrats."...

    Because they are on fire!


  212. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 4:11 pm

    "The video was posted by anti-TQ LGB group, LGB." -Hate

    I don't care if it was posted by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

    It was ONE person in ONE video, and it was not posted by others who agree with the sentiments, but by an organization that is hostile to transgender individuals and wants to make gullible people rubes like you to hate them as much as they do.


    I don't think it's possible to feel more pity for you and your pathetic bigotry than I do right now, Bill.


  213. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 4:41 pm

    Understand my point. The anti-TQ LGBs are truly extreme. They say and do things that the most homophobic MAGA Republican "Christian theocrats" would never consider saying or doing and GAG grew by 3,000 followers on Twitter just since yesterday. Libs of TikTok now has 2,100,000 Twitter followers.

    You are in a rhetorical effin war. And, pb, being who he is, is tepidly moderate compared to what's developing.


  214. by Ponderer on May 5, 2023 4:51 pm

    "The anti-TQ LGBs are truly extreme. They say and do things that the most homophobic MAGA Republican "Christian theocrats" would never consider saying or doing and GAG grew by 3,000 followers on Twitter just since yesterday." -Hate

    And yet you tout them, in your "tepidly moderate" posts here about them, as something of an oracle of public opinion. Hmmm.


  215. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 4:56 pm

    What you're up against. US INSIDER has named GAG's Jaime Mitchell one of its "Top 10 Innovators to Follow in 2023."

    Here's some of her bio from the article:

    Jaimee Michell is a name that has been making waves in the world of American activism lately. As the founder of Gays Against Groomers, a non-profit organization, Michell has been fighting to end the sexualization, indoctrination and medicalization of children that is being done in the name of “LGBTQIA+”.

    Gays Against Groomers was launched in June of 2022 as a way to combat the agenda being pushed on kids from inside the LGBTQIA+ community. Almost immediately, the organization became an overnight sensation, garnering national and international media attention. In under a year, the group has testified on over 15 legislative bills, held protests and rallies around the United States, spoken at dozens of school board and city council meetings.

    Michell’s organization is made up of LGB and T people who are fighting to protect children from being sexualized and indoctrinated into an ideology that may not align with their best interests.

    Michell herself is an American lesbian woman and political activist who has made it her mission to fight for the rights of children. Her work with Gays Against Groomers has garnered both praise and criticism from people all over the world, but Michell remains steadfast in her commitment to the cause.


    Yikes!

    And, you fret over MAGAs.
    usinsider.com


  216. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 5:00 pm

    And yet you tout them, in your "tepidly moderate" posts here about them, as something of an oracle of public opinion. Hmmm.

    No. I have defended them against your accusation that they're bigoted and paranoid. That's all.

    I'm merely describing the politics, po. I have my eyes open. I can see what's happening.


  217. by HatetheSwamp on May 5, 2023 5:31 pm

    po, Donna,

    I found this interview of Jaimee Michell on YouTube. She's more moderate than I would have guessed from those brief tweets. She even talks about trans people in the GAG organization.

    My guess, though, is that both of you would be the extremists she talks about.

    View Video


  218. by HatetheSwamp on May 6, 2023 6:15 am

    I've been trying to map out the emerging reality within the LGBTQ world. In a way, it's impossible for me, as an organic male geezer, to do that because I'm entirely an outsider.

    On the other hand, perhaps I'm qualified because I am an organic male geezer. I can bring nothing but objectivity.

    I've mentioned the growth of anti-TQ LGB groups and activists. It's exponential. There are many LGBs who see nothing similar between TQs and themselves. They want nothing more than to cut the TQs off.

    However, I'm realizing that there are even trans people who ain't woke and who actually oppose the trans political agenda. I use Caitlyn Jenner, and her acceptance by the Fox News crowd, as a prime example. Clearly, trans people can live constructively and successfully among the politically conservative.

    In studying anti-woke LGBT activists, I've discovered Emily Dawn. Emily is a sort of non-celebrity, hard edged, Caitlyn Jenner. Emily's trans but really, really, really not woke.

    Here's a recent tweet:

    "I don’t see anyone trying to take away my trans rights.

    I see a lot of people upset that trans has privilege over every other class/gender/sex/race out there.

    If you can create 99 genders and get people fired and punch women and kidnap athletes and threaten to rape and kill, then stalk room to room killing kids, women, and men, you are not oppressed.

    Trans people have been coddled long enough. Let the ideology stand on its own merits.

    Because it has none."


    "Coddled long enough." Gang, there's a new LGBT community emerging. I noted that, during last Pride Month, I observed a crumbling of the LGBTQ coalition.

    It's coming.


  219. by Ponderer on May 6, 2023 8:19 am

    "I've been trying to map out the emerging reality within the LGBTQ world. In a way, it's impossible for me, as an organic male geezer, to do that because I'm entirely an outsider.

    On the other hand, perhaps I'm qualified because I am an organic male geezer. I can bring nothing but objectivity."
    -Hate

    ...And your boundless, empathy-free ignorance about the subject. Don't leave that out. Don't forget that you're bringing tons of that to your cartography.


    "Clearly, trans people can live constructively and successfully among the politically conservative." -Hate

    Right. As long as we live within the boundaries you set for us, we can be happy. This is your country after all. We are merely a tiny minority of unwelcome guests who have no business seeking the same civil rights that every American is entitled to. We just need to live by your rules and appease you in abject gratitude if we want to keep living here is all. That's all we need to do to keep living here "constructively and successfully". That's not too much to ask I suppose.


    "In studying anti-woke LGBT activists, I've discovered Emily Dawn." -Hate

    She sounds just like any other MAGA hatted conservative on the subject. Why can't you understand that being trans doesn't immunize one from being an non-empathetic, propagandizing bigoted conservative? For example:

    "Trans people have been coddled long enough. Let the ideology stand on its own merits." -Emily Dawn

    "Ideology"?



    "Ideology"???



    ideology [ahy-dee-ol-uh-jee, id-ee-]
    noun, plural i·de·ol·o·gies.
    1. the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.
    2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation.


    She sounds every bit as pig-ignorantly stupid about transgender people as you do, Bill. It doesn't matter a damn that she's one too.

    Would you call your sense of who and what you are an ideology? It's just a doctrine, myth, or belief you have? Your very being is an ideology???

    Why is it, do you think, that you always have so much trouble ever finding experts to support your asinine propaganda who know what the hell they are talking about?


    "Gang, there's a new LGBT community emerging." -Hate

    We're already here, Bill. We've always been here. But look. I get it...

    Conservatives such as yourself feel like they already lost the war against the homosexual community. And the debilitating disappointment you feel is incalculable. You and they have had to stand by and helplessly watch as gays and lesbians legally marry their true loves. You've had to suffer from the heinous fallout and the horrific social chaos that has ensued in the subsequent years from gays and lesbians absolutely destroying the institution of marriage, rendering it meaningless and worthless. The country has turned into a living hellscape for you, surrounded by all these smug, content homosexuals living in this country with the same rights YOU have! And all while children are even dropping like feral dogs in the streets from poverty and hunger by the thousands now, simply because gays and lesbians can legally marry. My GOD, the millions of lives that have been lost. The billions of dollars in damage such social terrorism has caused to our infrastructure. Your torturous suffering has certainly been incomprehensible. Yeah yeah, I get all that.

    So now, with the rise in social awareness of transgender people, you'll be good and god damned if you are going to sit quietly by and lose another war. And this time to a bunch of sick, immoral cross dressers and drag queens who just want to ogle girls genitals in locker rooms, and turn your god-fearing children into perverted transvestites whores while being protected by the promises of that Evil Instrument, The Constitution of the United States???

    Oh HELL no!!!

    So now, you and your MAGA hatted conservative brethren are pulling out all the stops. You are going to leave no weapon un-fired. Every shell shall be launched at a target. Every propagandistic lie shall be utilized. No derogatory phrase left unturned. You are determined to win every battle and destroy your enemy regardless of how much of your souls you destroy to accomplish this quest. As God is your witness, you are NOT going to lose this war. This is gonna end here and now!

    Or as the current MAGA Republican ideology goes, “For the good of society … transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely — the whole preposterous ideology, at every level.”.

    .
    rollingstone.com


  220. by HatetheSwamp on May 6, 2023 8:31 am

    "Clearly, trans people can live constructively and successfully among the politically conservative." -Hate

    Right. As long as we live within the boundaries you set for us, we can be happy. This is your country after all. We are merely a tiny minority of unwelcome guests who have no business seeking the same civil rights that every American is entitled to. We just need to live by your rules and appease you in abject gratitude if we want to keep living here is all. That's all we need to do to keep living here "constructively and successfully". That's not too much to ask I suppose.


    po,

    I've used Caitlyn Jenner as an example of how trans people...who ain't woke...can prosper, even in a culture dominated by extremely conservative people. I take it you don't admire Jenner.


  221. by HatetheSwamp on May 6, 2023 8:55 am

    "In studying anti-woke LGBT activists, I've discovered Emily Dawn." -Hate

    She sounds just like any other MAGA hatted conservative on the subject. Why can't you understand that being trans doesn't immunize one from being an non-empathetic, propagandizing bigoted conservative?


    Nice. As isle condescendingly says, "Now we're getting somewhere."

    You seem to be inching toward understanding. The issue is not that you're trans, it's that you are WOKE. And, the tide is beginning to turn away from all things woke, as the Bud Light drama is making abundantly clear.

    I don't know if Emily is MAGA. Actually, I have my doubts. You know now that GAG founder, Jaimee Michell is a rabid DeSantis supporter...and that makes sense, ain't. Truth?, MAGAs aren't nearly as much into being social conservatives. Much of the anti-LGBTQ stuff you rail against either comes from Florida or follows along with what started in Florida.

    My guess is that Emily is a DeSantis follower. Just like the GAG babe.

    But, by all means, keep kickin it with the MAGA-phobia. It's cute.


  222. by Ponderer on May 6, 2023 9:14 am

    "I've used Caitlyn Jenner as an example of how trans people...who ain't woke...can prosper, even in a culture dominated by extremely conservative people." -Hate

    I refuse to believe that you are stupid enough to think that that is a good example.


    "You seem to be inching toward understanding. The issue is not that you're trans, it's that you are WOKE." -Hate

    Well now I know you've got nothing if you're forced to employ that asinine red herring. So you think that if I wasn't "woke" and was simply trans, I'd be perfectly fine with bigoted, sociopathic MAGA Republicans taking away my civil rights and equal protection under the law...? Geez, the blithering idiocy you think passes for logic.


  223. by HatetheSwamp on May 6, 2023 10:20 am

    po,

    Jenner is AN example. Life for trans people ain't as bleak your paranoia suggests.

    You know how frequently I mention that gay Guy Curt never heard of. He's aces at Fox...

    ...and much more conservative than ol pb.

    It's just a fact that many LGBT people are conservative and, in the last year-ish have begun to, uh, come out as conservative. That's Jaimee Michell's story.

    The LGBT coalition is crumbling because many conservatives and moderates in the community no longer wish to kowtow to your wild progressive Big Brother politics...and, you, obviously, demand obeisance.

    Disaster awaits the woke LGBT community.


  224. by islander on May 6, 2023 1:39 pm

    The majority of conservatives are against societies acceptance of transgenders, the majority of progressives favor societies acceptance.

    No need to worry that transgenders are ever going to accept the conservative position on transgenders.

    Hate's prediction, "Disaster awaits the woke LGBT community" based on trans rejection of progressive's position is comical !! LoL



    "By ideology, the differences are even more dramatic. Three-quarters of liberal Democrats say greater acceptance of transgender people has been good for society. This compares with 45% of moderate or conservative Democrats, 27% of moderate or liberal Republicans and just 8% of conservative Republicans. Meanwhile, 65% of conservative Republicans say acceptance of trans people has been bad for society, while just 6% of liberal Democrats say the same."
    pewresearch.org


  225. by HatetheSwamp on May 6, 2023 1:54 pm

    What does "acceptance" even mean? Pretty vague.

    But,...

    ...ho hum...

    ...AGAIN!!!!!

    pb's focus is on the trans political agenda.

    There's a grain of truth that, say, a year ago, po's MAGA Republican "Christian theocrats" were where the opposition came from.

    Today, uh uh.

    There's now that three headed monster pb describes:

    Old-school feminists,
    Anti-TQ LGBs (or, anti-woke LGBTs)
    And, those nasty mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who merely want to love their kids and grandkids without Big Brother intrusion.


  226. by islander on May 6, 2023 1:58 pm

    Ho-hum...
    Hate's prediction, "Disaster awaits the woke LGBT community" based on trans rejection of progressive's position is comical !! LoL


  227. by HatetheSwamp on May 6, 2023 2:09 pm

    Actually, I don't think that's too much of an exaggeration.

    We know for sure that some pretty oppressive laws have been passed just this year. I think you can call this a trend, which probably will be intensify.

    And, if you cared to read the anti-TQ LGB groups and activists on social media, I think you'd be alarmed.


  228. by islander on May 6, 2023 2:10 pm

    And Hate ~

    Your Elmer Gantry and Carry Nation crowd will no more bring about the destruction of our Transgender acceptance than they were able to prevent us from sitting down and having a nice cold beer! 🍻


  229. by Ponderer on May 6, 2023 4:35 pm

    "Jenner is AN example. Life for trans people ain't as bleak your paranoia suggests." -Hate

    Life for trans people quite rarely includes millions of dollars in the bank. Life for trans people doesn't generally include private security details and entourages, the best doctors and surgeons in the world, houses anywhere she wants....

    Are you fukking kidding me? She's AN example of what??? All the millions of transgender multi-millionaires in the country???

    I swear to God, you don't even possess the empathy He gave hamsters, Bill.


  230. by Ponderer on May 6, 2023 4:39 pm

    "Disaster awaits the woke LGBT community." -Hate

    Yeah. Most likely from some assault weapon-wielding MAGA Republican thugs crashing our doors in at night and murdering us over rainbows on their beer cans.


  231. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 3:10 am

    isle,

    YOUR transgender acceptance?

    The woke trans political agenda, you mean. Good for you. You're woke.

    But, I think you're bang on. My prediction is that the woke world will embrace, more tightly than ever, WOKE trans-ism. But, look around you buddy. That three headed monster opposition to the trans political agenda is the way of the future. Talk about strange bedfellows, unimaginable ten years ago:

    1. "Christian theocrats."
    2. Old-school Title IX Feminists
    3. LGBs.

    The LGBTQ coalition is is crumbling. But, James Dobson Christian fundies, Billy Jean King feminists and Guy Benson gays? Oy, as po'd say, EFFIN, vey!!!!!

    This'll be interesting.


  232. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 3:29 am

    Yeah. Most likely from some assault weapon-wielding MAGA Republican thugs crashing our doors in at night and murdering us over rainbows on their beer cans.

    Not far off, po. Gay bashing 21st century style. You think it's impossible?

    I've added a few accounts on Twitter as a follower. Holy $hit! There's real hate out there...especially from the anti-TQ LGBs! I've unfollowed some because it's disgusting. You think physical violence against a biological male who's a transgender woman who attempts to use either public restroom in Florida is an impossibility? You can't possibly be that blind! And, po, brainless.

    This has been pb's tune since he began calling you woke trans people out for your hate rhetoric. You invite hate!

    If you think that physical violence against trans people is out of the question, I wish you well.

    I see it as becoming increasingly likely.


  233. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 3:42 am

    Life for trans people quite rarely includes millions of dollars in the bank. Life for trans people doesn't generally include private security details and entourages, the best doctors and surgeons in the world, houses anywhere she wants....

    Nah, Jenner is openly trans and tepidly politically conservative and, he never speaks in anger. He effin LAUGHS! Effin smiles. I know it violates the bizarre principles by which you live life, but YouTube Jenner on Fox...or that gay Guy Curt never heard of...even the openly "evangelical" Christians love them.

    If you don't return hate for kindness, you can get by in the world. Advocates of your trans political agenda are chronically angry and hateful.

    If you could abandon your Big Brother arrogance and progressive politics, you'd be fine.


  234. by Ponderer on May 7, 2023 6:10 am

    "You think it's impossible?" -Hate

    "You think physical violence against a biological male who's a transgender woman who attempts to use either public restroom in Florida is an impossibility?" -Hate

    Of course I don't. I absolutely don't. I wasn't joking. Bill, I have of long ago come to grips with the realization that my death may come at the hands of some psychotic MAGA Republican or deranged religious zealot who doesn't like me being somewhere in public.

    These are highly gullible, rabidly bigoted, right wing MAGA Republicans we're talking about here, Bill. As we have seen countless examples of, their pig-ignorance, hatred and bigotry can be easily weaponized into all manner of homicidal action using nothing but obvious and provable lies to rile their blood lust up with. No one should ever underestimate the violent potential of such dangerously ignorant people and those who would seek to use them as weapons. I certainly don't.

    And it only takes one of them. As we have seen thousands and thousands of times.


    "and, he never speaks in anger. He effin LAUGHS! -Hate

    Oh my yes I can see how much respect you have for her as an unofficial leader of my community who I should also respect. It's quite obvious. I'm sure your respect for her would make her laugh.


  235. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 6:28 am

    Thanks, po, for spewing more hate on them there MAGA Republican "Christian theocrats." That's helpful.

    From what I see, the people really pi$$ed at the trans political agenda are non-woke trans people, then, after that, LGBs who want nothing to do with the idea of LGBTQ!

    In fact, the first person I ever unfollowed on Twitter is a trans person who disagrees with the trans political agenda with a passion that the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who merely want to raise their own children could dream of expressing.

    That's just 100% true.

    What I can't tell with you is if you're joshin or if your hate of Trump is so irrational that you're able to hold on to that hate to the point that you'll actually endanger yourself.

    When I first mentioned GAG here, you called those LGBs bigoted and paranoid. And, you're on to something. Not GAG. But, there are many anti-TQ LGB activists who seem to me to be several fries short of a HAPPY MEAL. They seem legitimate dangerous to me.

    You note the insanity of anti-TQ LGBs, then pretend it away...

    ...at your own peril.


  236. by Ponderer on May 7, 2023 9:45 am

    So the trans community needs to be quiet and peaceful, and we shouldn't inconveniently protest the current unconstitutional hate towards us if we ever want to see change in our favor. I see.

    Boy. I guess that if Blacks in the fifties and sixties had only not protested and hadn't protested and made such a big "hateful" fuss about their constitutional rights being stomped on, they could have had all their civil rights granted to them in half the time that they were!


    Power never gives up its power without being forced to, Bill. You should know that. You aren't that stupid.


  237. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 9:58 am

    Oy, po!

    So the trans community needs to be quiet and peaceful, and we shouldn't inconveniently protest the current unconstitutional hate towards us if we ever want to see change in our favor. I see.

    Did you watch that Jaimee Michell video, or read the article on her being named one of INSIDERS Top Ten Innovators of 2023?

    That's what you supporters of the trans political agenda need, someone who can speak intelligently and constructively. But, so far you all come across as hateful and angry...and, because of that, you're losing ground...fast.


  238. by Ponderer on May 7, 2023 10:20 am

    Power never gives up its power without being forced to, Bill. You should know that. I guess you are that stupid.



  239. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 10:27 am

    Perhaps. How did Martin Luther King, Jr and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference get the power to force?


  240. by Ponderer on May 7, 2023 10:55 am

    "How did Martin Luther King, Jr and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference get the power to force?" -Hate

    By not being friendly and upsetting the status quo that they were supposed to just shut up and go along with.


  241. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 11:06 am

    And, the forcing power thing?


  242. by Ponderer on May 7, 2023 11:29 am

    What about it?


  243. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 11:56 am

    How'd they force the powerful to give up power?

    The trans community's nastiness and hateful speaking today bears no resemblance at all to the eloquent message, rooted in the Old Testament prophets' calls for mercy and justice.


  244. by Ponderer on May 7, 2023 12:11 pm

    "How'd they force the powerful to give up power?" -Hate

    With bus boycotts, marches, protests, sit-ins, political actions, more marches, more protests...


  245. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 12:24 pm

    That's not my definition of force but, if it came down to that today, the GAG gang could produce bigger, more motivated, crowds than your gang could dream about.

    Did you watch that Jaimee Michell Minnesota video?


  246. by Ponderer on May 7, 2023 3:03 pm

    "Did you watch that Jaimee Michell Minnesota video?" -Hate

    No. But I looked her up and did a little research on her. Enough to conclude pretty quickly that I couldn't give a flying rat's ass about what she has to say about any trans issues. Didn't take much research at all actually.

    Bill, I'm certain that in your sickening zeal to stick it to us SelectSmart trannies with everything GAG, you have already regaled us with her most pertinent points anyways.



  247. by HatetheSwamp on May 7, 2023 3:32 pm

    Two reasons you should take a quick gander so you get an idea of what you're up against.

    1. She's bright, attractive and charismatic. It's easy to see how her GAG could have waaaaaaay more than a quarter of a million Twitter followers in waaaaaaaaaay less than a year.
    2. It seems obvious to me that the interviewer is not gay...most likely from the group of mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who are MAGA Republican "Christian theocrats," suggesting that a new coalition is forming to oppose the trans political agenda.

    Oh, and just so you know. If she's a theocrat, she's a Jewish theocrat. Baha baha baha.


  248. by Ponderer on May 7, 2023 6:35 pm

    Your bigoted sociopathy is disgusting, Bill. It doesn't even matter a damn to you that she's wrong.


  249. by HatetheSwamp on May 8, 2023 4:04 am

    Right, po.

    Maybe I have mentioned. I'm following the politics >/i>of the trans political agenda and, now, it's emerging three headed monster of opposition.

    And, po, as I've always noted, I agree with Michell's motivating conviction that children should not be pressured to engage in transitioning. As far as that part of the debate is concerned, I could not possibly agree with her more. And, as far as that goes, I'm glad for GAG. And, on that point, I think you are wrong. Many tens of millions of Americans do.

    Still. as far as I know, Jaimee Michell doesn't begrudge you your own trans journey. Michell ain't one of those radical anti-TQ LGBs who oppose TQ people more than any MAGA Republican "Christian theocrat" ever would.

    There are many LGBs who oppose the trans political agenda far more radically than does GAG. They want a strong LGB movement. They think that you TQs can just go to hell. Not GAG.

    It's the radicalism of the trans political agenda...and, I think, you don't support the whole trans political agenda yourself...that is the problem for most Americans.

    I think that, for the most part, GAG is pretty middle of the road as Americans go. It's unique in that it's LGB. GAG is far more moderate than you.

    As far as the politics go, the bad news for you is that GAG represents the reality that what you believe in ain't only opposed by isle's evangelical white supremacist Christian Nationalists, baha baha, but an LGB movement that is growing exponentially...by the day.

    And, I think that you really need to worry about anti-TQ LGBs who make GAG seem tame...because that group may be growing faster than GAG. It's from there that violence against trans people would most likely come, IMO.


  250. by HatetheSwamp on May 8, 2023 4:26 am


    And, po. You take Jaimee Michell and her thoughtful argument and compare it to the way these trans people, and trans-philes, et.al., in the video makes your point. This is so po...no matter how often you deny it...

    Your words in action:



    View Video


  251. by Ponderer on May 8, 2023 6:02 am

    "I'm following the politics >/i>of the trans political agenda and, now, it's emerging three headed monster of opposition." -Hate

    You're following hateful, weaponized, bullshit propaganda intended to eradicate a minority out of existence.

    You and your fuckking MAGA Republican party think that your baseless outrage and bigoted paranoia of this subject somehow trumps the entire medical community on it and you can therefor use your ignorance to destroy people's lives. You know better than all the doctors and psychologists who have spent decades of their lives working with transgender people and know the subject maybe a little better than Jaimee Michell ever will.

    And you think I'm sanctimonious?

    Fuckk you, Bill. Fuckk you for the heinous hatred and ungodly bigotry that you are facilitating and supporting. I'm tellin' ya, you really need to fuckk yourself. It's absolutely called for in this instance.


  252. by HatetheSwamp on May 8, 2023 6:16 am

    Except that, in reality, LGBTs are welcome here and operate freely and abundantly.

    It's just real world.


  253. by Ponderer on May 8, 2023 6:31 am

    Just... fuckk you, Bill.


  254. by HatetheSwamp on May 8, 2023 6:41 am

    Just... fuckk you, Bill.

    Right. You're the Poster-uh,-Trans for inclusion and tolerance, acceptance and openness, diversity and, FREETHINKING.


  255. by Ponderer on May 8, 2023 6:56 am

    I am not going to be tolerant of the intolerance heaped upon my community by you and your intolerant asshole MAGA Republican party.

    Fuckk you Bill.



  256. by HatetheSwamp on May 8, 2023 7:28 am

    The latest tweet from a level-headed, rational trans:

    "It’s the 50th anniversary of Title IX and women are facing the reality of losing their scholarships if the Biden admin changes their guidelines. I support Riley’s boycott if females are forced to compete against biological males." -Caitlyn Jenner

    Jenner is an anti-woke LGBT at one with old-school feminists in supporting organic female athletes.

    Note direct opposition to a controversial component of the trans political agenda.

    Openness and inclusion, acceptance tolerance, diversity and FREETHINKING!


  257. by HatetheSwamp on May 8, 2023 7:33 am

    po,

    #256 effin proves you wrong about who's intolerant...a trans woman standing with those old-school feminists. It's a beautiful thing over here po. Jump in. The water's warm.


  258. by Ponderer on May 8, 2023 8:10 am

    Isn't it curious how it just always happens to be the case that no one who thinks differently than you do is open minded or tolerant? How only people who agree with you are open minded and tolerant, regardless of how closed minded or intolerant or demonstrably wrong many who agree with you may be? Quite curious indeed...


  259. by HatetheSwamp on May 8, 2023 9:17 am

    po,

    I just agreed halfway with isle on t'other thread going right now.

    But, po. I'll never think of you as open minded and tolerant. Maybe Donna on a good day. But, you are as intolerant as anyone I've ever encountered...at least, the you who shows up here. By a long chalk.


  260. by Ponderer on May 8, 2023 12:39 pm

    Bill, you have never explained why I am supposedly obligated to be tolerant of intolerance towards my entire community. Why I am supposed to be open minded about the MAGA Republican party's closed mindedness about issues affecting my community and me personally. Why I should be inclusive of being legally excluded from having constitutionally granted civil rights.

    Care to take this opportunity to rectify this oversight on your part?



  261. by Ponderer on May 8, 2023 12:40 pm

    And you know where you can shove your long chalk...


  262. by HatetheSwamp on May 8, 2023 1:20 pm

    "Predators have figured out all they have to do to get close to children is slap on a wig and put on a dress and some makeup and suddenly no one can criticize them.

    They are using our “community” to prey on kids because our “community” has held the door wide open for them to.

    We’re here to end this insanity and make pedophiles afraid again." -GAG
    twitter.com


  263. by islander on May 8, 2023 1:33 pm

    Hate wrote: "Predators have figured out all they have to do to get close to children is slap on a wig and put on a dress and some makeup and suddenly no one can criticize them."

    Are you expressing your own opinion or using GaG as your mouthpiece?

    No one can criticize such pedophiles? Really? No one??

    Do you actually believe that kind of BS and assorted disinformation about transgenderism put out by GAG and spread by you and others like you ?




  264. by HatetheSwamp on May 8, 2023 3:42 pm

    ...gender is a binary choice. Even Millennials agree that such a determination is assigned at birth.

    The Washington Post’s poll was devastating to the small but vocal sect that wants to pump kids full to puberty blockers, surgically twist around their genitals, and make them whatever gender their parents want them to be regardless of what biological science says. These procedures on children aren’t health care—it’s abuse. And on the issue of transgender participation in sports, the consensus is that trans women should be prohibited from playing in leagues that are intended for biological females.


    pb's been tracking the politics of the trans agenda. In the last year, attitudes have changed. Duh. Suddenly bathroom bills, women's sports bills are passing by huuuuuuuuuge majorities in state legislatures. How many versions of Florida’s Parental Rights in Education [Don't say gay] Law have passed? AND, how many followers does GAG, formed less than a year, ago have? (274,000. Up 3,000 in a day)

    pb's bang on.

    The three headed monster is at hand:

    Old-school Title IX feminists
    Anti-TQ LGB groups and activists
    po's MAGA Republican "Christian theocrats."

    BTW, the poll also shows that Americans think trans people shouldn't be discriminated against. But, the politics?, the agenda? Uh uh.
    townhall.com


  265. by HatetheSwamp on May 9, 2023 3:22 am

    Bill, you have never explained why I am supposedly obligated to be tolerant of intolerance towards my entire community.

    Rorschach. That you choose to see opposition to you and your ilk as "intolerance" says tons.

    Mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps want nuthin but to raise their children and grandchildren. That has nothing to do with you. It ain't intolerance.

    An increasingly large number of LGBs don't want to be lumped in with you because they see LGB being about sexual preference and T being about gender identity. That's not intolerance of you. Your ilk crashed the LGB party...according to some LGBs. That's not intolerance.

    You seek preference in public accommodation. Many oppose that. That's not intolerance. The recent WaPo poll shows Americans rejecting the trans political agenda but opposing discrimination against trans people. That poll reflects what I'm seeing...and, it reflects my own opinion.

    Live long and prosper, I say but, politically?, we disagree.

    There's no intolerance.


  266. by HatetheSwamp on May 9, 2023 3:36 am

    Are you expressing your own opinion or using GaG as your mouthpiece?

    isle,

    I linked to the tweet because it shows a cartoon of a disgusting drag queen wanting to abuse a very innocent looking child. GAG chose its name because it's against grooming, literally. It sees grooming as the goal of drag queens and trans people caring so very, very much about what goes on in children's public schools and libraries.

    As I've read the literature, the people in GAG are gay and lesbian adults who felt pressured, even groomed, by the TQ crowd when they were children. And, they're adamant. They want to protect children now. My guess is that GAG is growing so rapidly in membership and influence because the fact is that many gay and lesbian adults share that childhood experience.

    This is one of those things that I've been saying that straight people can't relate to. I only know that the LGBTQ coalition is, suddenly, crumbling. And, I think this is one of the reasons.


  267. by islander on May 9, 2023 5:07 am

    Hate wrote:
    "As I've read the literature, the people in GAG are gay and lesbian adults who felt pressured, even groomed, by the TQ crowd when they were children. And, they're adamant. They want to protect children now. My guess is that GAG is growing so rapidly in membership and influence because the fact is that many gay and lesbian adults share that childhood experience."

    Do you actually believe that kind of BS and assorted disinformation about transgenderism put out by GAG and spread by you and others like you ?

    ”Since I'm not suggesting that trans people groom, none apply to what I think...as far as trans people are concerned. ~ Hate

    Are you now changing your mind and taking back what you said earlier and do you really believe all that BS about Trans "grooming"? Or is your last post just a continuation of your usual weasel word posts?



  268. by HatetheSwamp on May 9, 2023 5:32 am

    Do you actually believe that kind of BS and assorted disinformation about transgenderism put out by GAG and spread by you and others like you ?

    isle,

    For like the dozenth time. I'm agnostic.

    From reading tweets and articles and watching videos, I don't think that the people in GAG are lying. I think that they're being perfectly honest and sincere. I don't think it's BS. Based on your post, I think that YOU are judgmental and dismissive.

    I also think that they're coming at the issue emotionally...but, then, so are po and Donna.

    Too much supports a belief that this ain't only bs and disinformation. If it were, GAG'd have a few dozen Twitter followers and the group LGB wouldn't be so active and there wouldn't be so many anti-TQ LGB activists ranting all over Twitter and other social media...and the trans political agenda wouldn't be in so much peril.

    I think that the growth of GAG...and other LGB groups, and the rise of anti-TQ LGB groups and activists point to something. What that is, I can't say yet.

    But, my personal assessment of these data, is not my point. This is about me tracking the decline of the trans political agenda.

    Are you now changing your mind and taking back what you said earlier and do you really believe all that BS about Trans "grooming"? Or is your last post just a continuation of your usual weasel word posts?

    Personally? I'm agnostic. There's too much emotion, too much anecdotalism, on both sides, for me to judge.


  269. by islander on May 9, 2023 8:37 am

    Weasel words...You have been spreading all this BS and misinformation about transgenders but your not even "suggesting" any of it is true since you have no idea whether it is or isn't. You are just telling us what somebody else is saying.

    Maybe you aught to try and find out whether this BS and damaging misinformation is true before spreading around here under the cowardly guise of, "somebody else said it".


  270. by HatetheSwamp on May 9, 2023 10:26 am

    I have been charting machinations concerning the demise of the trans political agenda.

    Here's what I suspect is going on. I think critically first and foremost. You repeatedly seek ammunition to fed opinions you've already formed. Hence, Heather and Teri.

    That I present, objectively, information concerning LGBs at odds with the trans political agenda seems, to you, to suggest that I'm using that material in the same way you use Heather and Teri. It ain't. I've mentioned unfollowing a anti-TQ LGB activist on Twitter because I found the hate so oppressive.

    Yes. There's growing LGB opposition to the trans political agenda. Because I acknowledge that fact, you think I think that's a good thing. That's not the case. I merely think it's a thing.


  271. by Indy! on May 10, 2023 3:38 pm
    Hey gang - it's your old pal Indy! here again... interesting thread! Well at least up to tweet 100 - that's where I had to quit because dinner calls and then the game tonight. Just wanted to say thanks for the enlightenment Pondy and Donna (and others) - learned more from this thread about transgenderism than I knew previously from everything else I've seen or read. I'm pretty much on the outside looking in and generally just read what others have to say on twitter about it - not really taking sides or adding my two cents. As you all know, I'm a live and let live person so I'm fine with all genders - but I was still confused about a lot of things. It wasn't until just a few weeks ago that someone explaine that the "they" pronoun only refers to one person! I never understood why "they" was included in the "new" pronouns thing until then. Amazing, right? Anyway - just wanted to say thanks and maybe we'll get together and chat soon if I get locked out of twitter again... meanwhile - THANKS AGAIN!



  272. by Indy! on May 10, 2023 3:39 pm
    WTF? Sorry about the double finger birds - that was supposed to be the Green happy guy. Your emojis suck, Curt...

    😃


  273. by Ponderer on May 10, 2023 3:58 pm

    Glad we could help, Indy!. Great to see you again!


  274. by HatetheSwamp on May 11, 2023 3:54 am

    Gang,

    GAG posted this Newsmax video of an interview with prominent anti-TQ LGB activist Oli London, who's detransitioned and is royally pi$$ed about trans grooming, and GAG founder Jaimee Michell. The topic of the interview is the still unreleased trans Nashville trans mass murderer's manifesto, but it's also about the anti-trans movement among the LGBT community.

    I'm posting the video to illustrate how strong the anti-trans message is when it comes from people in the LGBTQ community. po's and Donna's "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrats" rants are, typical of what comes from the other side.

    Also, note how well Michell presents herself. She is wholesome, soft-spoken, thoughtful and articulate, yet committed...to a very radical message, un-woke message...which she states without apology.

    In this video, I've given you the President of the leading anti-trans LGBT organization. And, I've been describing the growing number of anti-TQ LGB activists. Oli London is prominent among them though, I have to say, far less angry than many. Far, far less.

    I've been charting the demise of the trans political agenda. Here's an important reason why those anti-trans laws, many of which Donna calls "fascistic and disgusting," are passing into law when they never have before.

    Here on SS, po has nothing but hate for the "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats" who live to oppress her. In reply, you get, primarily, Jaimee Michell.

    Plus old-school Title IX feminists.

    Plus mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who simply want to be involved in their kid's and grandkid's education.

    Who, do you suppose, is going to win this battle for the hearts of Americans?
    twitter.com


  275. by Ponderer on May 11, 2023 7:47 am

    Don't worry, Bill. I'm sure that Indy! got a really good sense of the deplorable idiocy of your narrow minded propaganda before he headed out. I'm sure that he understands that no matter how many videos you show of single anti-trans individuals who are not appointed by anyone to be spokespeople for our entire community and who most of us never even heard of that it is only the opinions of that person. No matter how much you try to impress people with the credentials of your single example, they are still just one single example.

    I'm sure that he realizes that when all of the horrific information is coming from the conservative MAGA Republican right, it's bound to be horseshit. So again, don't worry.

    This is quite similar to how you people bloviate and scream how there's rampant voter fraud destroying our elections that even steals and overturns them. And as an example of your evidence, you tout one or two isolated cases you could find out of the half a dozen or so that actually exist (most of which were MAGA Republicans by the way) to prove your hallucinatory nonsense while blathering, "Ya SEE...? YA SEE...?!?!?". You make your declarations about a subject and then try to inflate whatever highly rare examples you can find out of all proportion to try to make it look like it's a plague sweeping the nation. We've seen it and seen it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

    You MAGA Republican conservatives have no sense of equity. No capability to make comparisons that make any logical sense. But you try to use that handicap to your advantage anyway by just flat-out lying and making a vast mountain range encircling the globe out of a mole hill. It's one of your oldest and most played-out bullshitting tactics.

    I'm sure that Indy! has not been away long enough to forget your asinine ploys.


  276. by HatetheSwamp on May 11, 2023 8:11 am

    Niiiiice, po.

    The interview appeared on Newsmax. Oli London is exactly who I said. And, Michell is the powerhouse I described. She's impressive, ain't?

    What you saw...maybe you realized this already... is the formating of a coalition involving the anti-trans grooming LGB crowd and your so-called "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats."

    You keep screaming angry hate while all those right-wing media outlets Fox, Newsmax, OAN...and all those conservative podcasts, there are dozens of big-timers...have Jaimee Michell as the face of the coalition.

    And, you seem incapable of dropping your hate. Don't bode well...for you. Eh?

    It's all about winning people's hearts. Clearly, your side ain't good at that.

    Baha baha baha bahahahahahahahahahaha baha baha baha.


  277. by HatetheSwamp on May 13, 2023 4:27 am

    po, Donna plus all you straight, white, progressive, limousine liberal trans-philes. Take note: Violent "homophobia" still exists.

    This is why I've been warning po, and Donna too, to roll back the hate based rhetoric against...

    1. Mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who simply want to be involved in their kids' and grandkids' education,
    2. Old-school Title IX feminists, and
    3. Anti-TQ LGB people.

    Couple Assaulted Outside Liquor Store Over Suspected Bud Light Purchase

    A couple was reportedly assaulted outside of a liquor store after being confronted by a group of men over their suspected purchase of Bud Light beer, police suspect.

    The Bud Light beer brand became a flashpoint of controversy amongst conservatives after its parent company, Anheuser-Busch, sent a commemorative Bud Light can to Dylan Mulvaney, a popular transgender social media influencer, to commemorate her 365-day transition to "girlhood".

    You are provoking anger...violence...unnecessarily.

    Take pb's warning.


  278. by islander on May 13, 2023 5:12 am

    Of course, Hate!! All the time you've been posting this misinformation and lies about Transgenderism and their "agenda" to groom kids, you've been doing it because you are worried about them and want to protect them from the violence that can result from your and others spreading of this kind of false stuff!


  279. by HatetheSwamp on May 13, 2023 5:26 am

    isle,

    Copy and paste one of pb's lies on the trans political agenda. Just one. There must be waaaaaaay more than 100 pb posts. Have at it.


  280. by Ponderer on May 13, 2023 5:58 am

    "This is why I've been warning po, and Donna too, to roll back the hate based rhetoric" -Hate

    Bill, unless you or olde dude plan on coming to Tucson to kill Donna and I, nothing I have ever said to you two in here has put us in any danger whatsoever. You talk as if Donna and I are supposed to get on the phone and tell all the other trans people to knock off whatever it is that you are hallucinating they are doing.


    "Copy and paste one of pb's lies on the trans political agenda." -Hate

    Well they aren't your lies, Bill. Even if we posted one, you'd say it wasn't yours. As you are constantly correcting us, these aren't your thoughts and beliefs about things that you have been sharing with us in here over a couple decades. You haven't been sharing your opinions of and accusations towards my community. You're only borrowing other's lies and bullshit about us from lying bullshit propaganda sites and posting them here in an attempt to prove to us that the rest of the country holds these opinions. Opinions that you are loathe to admit you absolutely and with no doubt share.

    Just like your hero Donald Trump, who you have so utterly dedicated yourself to supporting and defending on a constant basis, you get others to do your dirty work for you, to do and say what you don't want to be accused of doing and saying, but nonetheless believe and can point to. Oh you don't hold the views of the bullshit lies you post. Oh heavens no. This way you can feel free to declare, "Oh I never said that! That wasn't me who said that."

    You are the worst kind of liar, Bill. You're the the cowardly kind of lying pissant who doesn't even have the guts to stand behind the lies you use others to tell for you. It's the main and predominant reason that you need to go fukk yourself.


  281. by HatetheSwamp on May 13, 2023 6:48 am

    po,

    I've noted REPEATEDLY that the hate you spew is run-of-the-mill for supporters of the trans political agenda. Of course, you can only be responsible for yourself but my prediction is that "homophobic" violence, homophobic in the broadest sense, will increase and, for now, you contribute to its cause.

    Well they aren't your lies, Bill. Even if we posted one, you'd say it wasn't yours. As you are constantly correcting us, these aren't your thoughts and beliefs about things that you have been sharing with us in here over a couple decades...

    Bingo!

    What I am is the effin JOURNALIST of SS. From time to time, I post commentary but, especially on this issue, I'm merely reporting...calling you to acknowledge real world truth.

    You are the worst kind of liar, Bill. You're the the cowardly kind of lying pissant who doesn't even have the guts to stand behind the lies you use others to tell for you. It's the main and predominant reason that you need to go fukk yourself.

    Yikes, po. You've just acknowledged that I'm reporting fact. This is BLAME THE MESSENGER. It's useful to no one.

    The truth is that every week for months another US state has passed anti-trans laws, some genuinely in Donna's "fascistic and disgusting" category. And, you? Plural. Your whole community. All you do is spew hate. That's foolish.

    Y'all are inviting disaster.


  282. by Ponderer on May 13, 2023 5:59 pm

    "I've noted REPEATEDLY that the hate you spew is run-of-the-mill for supporters of the trans political agenda." -Hate

    And I've told you repeatedly what a stupid gullible, willfully pig-ignorant moron you are for thinking that the tiny little bigoted, micron-thin sliver of the population that you are exclusively listening to somehow represents any sizeable slice of the population pie.



  283. by HatetheSwamp on May 14, 2023 2:10 am

    And I've told you repeatedly what a stupid gullible, willfully pig-ignorant moron you are for thinking that the tiny little bigoted, micron-thin sliver of the population that you are exclusively listening to somehow represents any sizeable slice of the population pie.

    Of course. Whadaya spect? I'm one of them there "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrats," eh!!!!!?


  284. by Ponderer on May 14, 2023 8:27 am

    If you insist.


  285. by HatetheSwamp on May 17, 2023 8:31 am

    This is how deranged social progressive thinking has become:

    Biden Admin: Chocolate Milk Too Dangerous for Kids but Puberty Blockers Are Fine

    ...the same administration that called it "outrageous" and "immoral" to prevent children from taking life-altering hormones to prevent puberty for the purpose of "transitioning" is worried that milk provided at school might have ill effects on their health.


    townhall.com


  286. by HatetheSwamp on May 17, 2023 9:03 am

    Mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps. Or, as po'd say, "fascistic and disgusting" " MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats." Baha.

    Parents File Police Report After Teacher Offered LGBTQ+ Book to Middle School Students

    Parents of middle school students filed a police report against a teacher who provided students with a book teaching them about sexual orientation and gender identity. The teacher resigned shortly after.

    One of the books offered to students was one called “This Book is Gay” by Juno Dawson, a bestselling young adult non-fiction book that serves as an “instruction manual” for people coming out as LGBTQ+.

    “By Wednesday, I received notice that parents had gotten a hold of pictures from that book that their child had taken in class,” the teacher said. “By Friday, I was told that parents had filed a police report against me for child endangerment.”


    Grooming.

    townhall.com


  287. by Ponderer on May 17, 2023 11:24 am

    I read nothing in there that insinuated at all that the book was in any way pornographic. It would be different if it was.

    But Bill, why do you think that it is so important that access to such books be denied to trans youth in public schools who might feel the need to avail themselves of them?


  288. by HatetheSwamp on May 17, 2023 12:06 pm

    Well, again, po, I can't tell. Is this another of your "Do you still beat your wife" questions?

    It's hard for me to speak for all the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who merely want to raise their children without governmental intrusion, but I think that many of us believe that public schools are available to the citizenry to prepare children to be able to read, and keep a checkbook, and to understand the history of the nation and the world and perhaps assist then in preparing to be a carpenter or hair cutter.

    It's not the place of public schools to intrude in the relationship between parent and child in the passing on of values.

    I linked to this article because it provides a useful picture of where a large number of the "mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps" head of the three headed monster are a far as debates over the trans political agenda are concerned.

    I'm certain that you disagree with what these particular mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps did. I disagree, too. If I had children, I would have been concerned. I do think that this is Big Brother intrusion into family life. But, to make this a police matter? I think that was badly done.


  289. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 8:24 am

    "Well, again, po, I can't tell. Is this another of your "Do you still beat your wife" questions?" -Hate

    I see. So you just think then that it's not necessarily important to you that access to such books be denied to trans youth in public schools who feel the need to avail themselves of them. You just think that it's toughshit for them and they can go hang themselves in the garage for all you care. I see.


    "It's hard for me to speak for all the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who merely want to raise their children without governmental intrusion," -Hate

    Huh. And yet you do it constantly in here with wild abandon, using them as props to make your asinine arguments with at every opportunity. I see.


    "but I think that many of us believe that public schools are available to the citizenry to prepare children to be able to read, and keep a checkbook, and to understand the history of the nation and the world and perhaps assist then in preparing to be a carpenter or hair cutter." -Hate

    Uh huh. Teaching them anything about the current time and society they are going to be released into when they graduate is an intrusive government overreach I suppose. I see.


    "It's not the place of public schools to intrude in the relationship between parent and child in the passing on of values." -Hate

    Teaching children about the existence of gay or lesbian or bi or queer or nonbinary or transgender people in this country in no way whatsoever comes close to doing that. You are a reactionary bigot.

    You and the Proto-Fascist MAGA Republican Party are arguing for children in public schools to be kept absolutely ignorant of these entire subjects, even if they themselves happen to belong to any of them. And you're even trying to do it with racial minority studies in public schools as well.


    "I'm certain that you disagree with what these particular mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps did. I disagree, too." -Hate

    Well great! I applaud you for not thinking that our laws should be based on the unwarranted, paranoid, bigoted fears of the most ignorantly terrified among us!


    "I do think that this is Big Brother intrusion into family life." -Hate

    Oh. So you think that our laws should be based on the unwarranted, paranoid, bigoted fears of the most ignorantly terrified among us. 🖕😟🖕



  290. by HatetheSwamp on May 18, 2023 9:02 am

    I see. So you just think then that it's not necessarily important to you that access to such books be denied to trans youth in public schools...

    In effin PUBLIC schools. By all means, let their parents buy them a copy or, most kids these days have plenty of spendin cash, let them buy those books themselves. But, Big Brother supply them? The mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who merely want to raise their kids without Big Brother intrusion radically oppose that. AND, if you're reading GAG stuff these days, they're effin ALWAYS showing up at school board meetings to oppose the various forms of grooming.

    Teaching children about the existence of gay or lesbian or bi or queer or nonbinary or transgender people in this country...

    ...is not in the mission of PUBLIC schools. That's for the mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps to do according to their own values. IMO

    So you think that our laws should be based on the unwarranted, paranoid, bigoted fears of the most ignorantly terrified among us.

    IOW, Do you still beat your wife?


  291. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 9:54 am

    "By all means, let their parents buy them a copy or, most kids these days have plenty of spendin cash, let them buy those books themselves. But, Big Brother supply them? The mommies and daddies and nannas and pappaps who merely want to raise their kids without Big Brother intrusion radically oppose that." -Hate

    Lemme ask you something, Bill. If a parent takes issue with any book being stocked in a school library, should that parent's wishes to have that book banned from the entire school system be accommodated?

    Should a group of parents, citing Big Brother intrusion into raising their children, be allowed to have all books about the Confederacy banned from school libraries and history classes because they want to shield their kids from even knowing it existed and don't want their child learning about racist white supremacy and then choosing it as a lifestyle?


  292. by HatetheSwamp on May 18, 2023 10:14 am

    Lemme ask you something, Bill. If a parent takes issue with any book being stocked in a school library, should that parent's wishes to have that book banned from the entire school system be accommodated?

    Of course not.

    I'm certain you've heard of community standards.

    I do wonder if these parents, and it's reported in the plural, were convinced that school Big Brother minions were insensitive to their concerns.

    But, ANY book? Absolutely not.

    Should a group of parents, citing Big Brother intrusion into raising their children, be allowed to have all books about the Confederacy banned from school libraries and history classes because they want to shield their kids from even knowing it existed and don't want their child learning about racist white supremacy and then choosing it as a lifestyle?

    Duh. No.

    But, I think you're either lying or under-informed. Based on what people are saying on the GAG Twitter page, this book preaches and promotes coming out as LGBTQ. In other words, it's an instrument of grooming.


  293. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 10:28 am

    "Based on what people are saying on the GAG Twitter page," -Hate

    Assholes will take any book that simply presents information as "indoctrination" or "grooming" or "brainwashing" or whatever they want to use it for to further their agendas, Bill.

    I wouldn't give the interpretation of any book about gay or trans issues by a tiny group of hateful, bigoted, mendaciously bigoted trans haters the time of day. I give their lies no importance at all.


  294. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 10:30 am

    But at least all this attention has likely rocket that book up the best seller list from where it had been.


  295. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 10:42 am

    Should a group of parents, citing Big Brother intrusion into raising their children, be allowed to have all books about the Confederacy banned from school libraries and history classes because they want to shield their kids from even knowing it existed and don't want their child learning about racist white supremacy and then choosing it as a lifestyle?

    "Duh. No."

    But why not...?

    It's pretty much the exact same argument that bigoted racist parents are using to keep minority studies out of any public school curriculum. They want their kids to be shielded from any information about the horrors that minorities suffered at the hands of the Confederate South and the more modern institutional racist repressions by whites against blacks and others. They feel such materials being available to their children puts their children at risk of being "groomed" to be haters of white people or of being ashamed of their whiteness.

    That doesn't make any more sense than the ridiculous scenario I hypothesized about.


  296. by HatetheSwamp on May 18, 2023 11:32 am

    po,

    Enuff with the 'beat your wife' questions. Your premise creates an unanswerable question. PARENTS shouldn't be able to have any books on any subject "banned" from public school libraries. It is their right, as members of the community to express any concern they have.

    They want their kids to be shielded from any information about the horrors that minorities suffered at the hands of the Confederate South and the more modern institutional racist repressions by whites against blacks and others.

    Oy. That's not my understanding.


  297. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 12:06 pm

    Well I don't know what's hindering your understanding about that. It's been their main argument for a long time now. They haven't been trying to keep it any secret.


  298. by HatetheSwamp on May 18, 2023 12:11 pm

    Sorry. I have never learned that from any reliable source. I've seen wacky claims to which I give no credence.

    I'm guessing. You're making an analogy. To what?


  299. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 12:18 pm

    Bill, then let's hear your take on why there is all this bigoted, red state, proto-fascist, history-altering elimination of minority studies in public schools........


  300. by HatetheSwamp on May 18, 2023 1:04 pm

    po,

    10-4. As soon as I figure out if you still beat your wife. Baha baha baha.


  301. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 2:35 pm

    Well Bill, you are laboring under the misapprehension that I have ever beat my wife in the first place. I have never beat my wife, so logically it's not possible for anyone to stop doing something they never started doing.

    Et voilà, your question is figured out for you!

    I hope that clears the way now for you to give us your take on why there is all this bigoted, red state, proto-fascist, history-altering elimination of minority studies in public schools, if it isn't why they have been saying it is.....



  302. by HatetheSwamp on May 18, 2023 2:48 pm

    Could you repeat your question...in English, this time?


  303. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 3:08 pm

    Sorry... Try this:

    Why are MAGA Republican politicians in red states, and all the mamas and dadas and meemees and poopas upset about it, pushing for the elimination of minority/ethnic studies in public schools if it isn't for the reasons that they have been declaring it's for?

    You have taken issue with my agreeing with them that it's being done for the reasons they have been admitting they are doing it for. So I therefore assumed that you must know the real reason it's being done.

    So what is it?


  304. by HatetheSwamp on May 18, 2023 3:17 pm

    You have taken issue with my agreeing with them that it's being done for the reasons they have been admitting they are doing it for.

    I have? News to me.


  305. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 3:51 pm

    Why are MAGA Republican politicians in red states, and all the mamas and dadas and meemees and poopas upset about it, pushing for the elimination of minority/ethnic studies in public schools if it isn't for the reasons that they have been declaring it's for?


  306. by HatetheSwamp on May 18, 2023 4:11 pm

    po,

    What makes you think they are?


  307. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 4:56 pm

    Fukk you, Bill. Just go fukk yourself.


  308. by Ponderer on May 18, 2023 4:57 pm

    OOOOPS!!! I didn't actually mean to post that...!

    😁


  309. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 5:23 am

    Oh, c'mon, po. Of course you meant to. You probably also meant to dox my full name and my email address.

    So, again, seriously, why do you think they are?


  310. by Ponderer on May 19, 2023 6:24 am

    "So, again, seriously, why do you think they are?",/b> -Hate

    Why do I think who are what?


  311. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 7:08 am

    What have you been haranguing me about?

    Why your "fascistic and disgusting" "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats" want to eliminate minority/ethnic studies in public schools.


  312. by Ponderer on May 19, 2023 7:21 am

    "What have you been haranguing me about?" -Hate

    Why? Can't you remember? I guess my haranguing has been quite insufficient.


  313. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 7:37 am

    No. You do haranguing better than anyone I've ever known.

    It's reason and fact you fail on.


  314. by Ponderer on May 19, 2023 8:33 am

    I'll try to do better in future, Bill.

    "It's reason and fact you fail on." -Hate

    Again with the lies. But let's move on. I'm sure you can answer this question:



    Why are MAGA Republican politicians in red states, and all the mamas and dadas and meemees and poopas upset about it, pushing for the elimination of minority/ethnic studies in public schools if it isn't for the reasons that they have been declaring it's for?



    They have said that they want such things like ethnic studies, or "CRT" as they erroneously call it, removed from public schools because they don't want their white children being taught to feel guilty and to hate white people and to give black people reasons to hate white people. In so many words.

    Do you think that there is some other reason than the ones they have provided? Or should we believe them?


  315. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 8:45 am

    You, honestly, think that CRT is, as you'd say, EFFIN, ethnic studies? Or, are you joshin me...or, more likely, razzin me?


  316. by Ponderer on May 19, 2023 9:02 am

    "You, honestly, think that CRT is, as you'd say, EFFIN, ethnic studies?" -Hate

    Of course I don't. We're not talking about what I think. I'm referring to what your MAGA Republican politicians and mamas and papas and peepees and poopoos are always claiming they.

    You know what? Let's ignore them for now since you apparently haven't kept up with any current events at all.


    What do you think, Bill? Why do you think that MAGA Republican politicians are trying to get rid of CRT and ethnic/minority studies like they undeniably are?


  317. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 9:10 am

    I'm referring to what your...mamas and papas and peepees and poopoos are always claiming they.

    So, which is it. Joshin? Or, razzin?


  318. by Ponderer on May 19, 2023 9:48 am

    Never mind. I got my answer loud and clear.


  319. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 10:07 am

    Fine.

    Just provide reliable reporting that those "fascistic and disgusting" "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats" are guilty as charged.


  320. by HatetheSwamp on May 20, 2023 7:59 am

    One way to chart the demise of woke LGBTQ hegemony will be to notice how divisive and controversial Pride celebrations are becoming. Last year?, this sort of things wouldn't have generated a belch:


    Air Force To Navy On Drag Queens: Hold My Bud Light

    In the latest attempt to “rainbow” the U.S. military, the Department of the Air Force has authorized its bases to hold celebrations “in honor of Pride Month.” The announcement came days after the Navy got busted for using a drag queen to recruit new sailors into service.

    Most recently, the office of Rep. Chip Roy, R-Texas, obtained a flyer promoting LGBT-themed events at Robins Air Force Base in Georgia. According to the flyer, base events will include a “‘Pride Game Night’ on June 10, a Unity in Diversity Color Run on June 16, and a panel discussion titled ‘Our History, Our time!’ on June 28th.”

    “What’s next, rainbow uniforms during pride month?” Roy said. “The Air Force and Defense Department sanctions this ridiculous use of taxpayer dollars and then expects members of Congress who represent Americans who are livid about this stuff to green light an $800 billion plus DOD budget.”

    The issuance of the May 3 Air Force memo came several days after The Daily Caller separately revealed the U.S. Navy brought on Yeoman 2nd Class Joshua Kelley — an active-duty drag queen who goes by the stage name Harpy Daniels and identifies as non-binary — to be a “Navy Digital Ambassador.” The program, which ran from October 2022 to March 2023, was reportedly aimed at examining “the digital environment to reach a wide range of potential candidates” for military recruitment.


    Benchmark this for Pride Month 024. Baha.
    thefederalist.com


  321. by Ponderer on May 20, 2023 10:07 am


    *yawn*




  322. by HatetheSwamp on May 21, 2023 8:15 am

    This comes from Oli London, one of the more prominent anti-TQ LGB activists, prominent enough to have appeared on Fox News or Newsmax, or something like that. I saw that appearance. Oli's not a lone wacko doing social media out of nanna's basement. Oli has waaaaaaay more than 200,000 Twitter followers. He's radical, as nearly all anti-TQ LGB activists are:


    "Man sues NYC Yoga studio for $5 million after being ‘forced’ to use the men’s locker room.

    Ali Miles who sometimes goes by his male name Dylan Miles depending on his mood, claims to have been banned from using the women’s facilities at Hot Yoga Chelsea in NYC.

    Several women complained to management that they felt uncomfortable about Miles, who still has male genitalia, using their spaces and claimed his ‘genitals were hanging out in the locker year room.'

    The lawsuit is the 3rd they have filed alleging ‘gender identity discrimination’ in the past year."

    Source: Daily Mail"


    So, trans people and trans-philes, what's the real life solution?


  323. by Ponderer on May 22, 2023 9:37 am

    You want a "real life" solution to this specific situation, Bill?

    Ah, conservatives. "Just give me one law that covers everything regardless of the complexities involved! And make it snappy! No time for debating or examining facts or anything...!"

    Sounds to me that that trans person was being an asshole. They exist in any grouping of human beings.


    Look, I believe that there is responsibility that trans women have to bear in situations like this. Locker rooms are completely different from restrooms.

    Personally, I have avoided any situation where I would need to be in any locker room. That is a sacrifice that I have accepted. And I've had to make a lot of them over the last 27 years.

    But as with the whole argument about trans athletes, I believe that trans women must act taking their own personal situation into consideration and how it might affect others. It's not just "My way or the highway...!"

    Rule #1 is if you still have a penis, you gotta keep from exposing it in a women's locker room. And if that means not using the locker room at all, then that is the sacrifice you must make. That is my feeling anyway.

    Rule #2 is that if you are only a few years into transition and have already gone through male puberty, you should not be allowed to compete against cis women. That is a sacrifice that a trans woman athlete in that situation must make as far as I am concerned. Sorry, sis.

    This is not a sacrifice that will put her life in any danger like the sacrifice that the MAGA Republicans are trying to foist on us regarding public bathrooms would. I feel sorry for a trans athlete who loves athletics and competing, but hey sis, you should have realized that transition comes with a great many sacrifices. And unfortunately for you personally, that's one that you are gonna have to make.

    I can't speak for what other trans women might feel on the subject. But I know that Donna and I are in the minority on this.

    I'll start another thread about it...


  324. by HatetheSwamp on May 23, 2023 4:07 am

    po,

    A fairly thoughtful post.

    Still,...

    Ah, conservatives. "Just give me one law that covers everything regardless of the complexities involved! And make it snappy! No time for debating or examining facts or anything...!"

    Right. It's THEIR fault. Clearly, on the other political side, the laws being passed do cover everything.

    That's the point 28 is making. This is an effin democracy. The people are deciding. You woke LGBTQs are welcome to offer constructive solutions.

    What you, personally, and your ilk offer is hate rhetoric calling, for instance, Martina Navratilova one of them there "fascistic and disgusting" "MAGA Republican" "Christian theocrats."

    This is America, po. Use your voice in a constructive way.


  325. by HatetheSwamp on May 23, 2023 9:42 am

    Gang,

    I pointed out last June that a sea change was taking place within the LGBTQ community in that politically conservative, unwoke, LGBs were pulling back, especially, from the TQ frenzy and asserting that to be LGB is distinctly different in essence than to be TQ. Last Pride Month, I was suggesting that the LGBTQ coalition was crumbling.

    On the next to last day of last Pride month, GAG launched its Twitter page. By it's first anniversary it will have waaaaaaaaaay more than 300,000 followers.

    In anticipation of 2023's Pride Month, GAG has issued this statement. I've abridged it slightly.

    Gays Against Groomers' Official Stance on Pride

    Years ago, Pride was about LGBT people stepping out to show the world we are normal people deserving of equality and marriage rights. We wanted the world to see that same sex relationships were not a threat, and in fact resembled the dynamic of straight relationships in many ways. We marched for our rights, and in 2004 the first legal gay marriage in the US was performed in Cambridge, MA. In June of 2015, the US Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that the US Constitution guarantees the right for same-sex couples to marry in all 50 US states.

    We believe there is a firm difference between education versus indoctrination, inclusivity versus pandering, and celebrating your right to marry versus exhibiting disgusting behaviors meant for the privacy of your own home. We are the LGB and T people who don’t make our sexuality our dominant attribute, who don’t need the world to accept us, and are satisfied with our current rights. We don’t go along with the mainstream narrative regarding our community. Because of this, we face an onslaught of character assassinations daily, something we’ve grown numb to.

    Not only do we find Pride unnecessary now, we are concerned by the exposure of inherently sexual materials that fall under the LGBT umbrella to children. In the past, we have seen young children brought to parades where grown adults are selling sex toys, hardly dressed, and displaying inappropriate behavior many minors should not be witnessing. In this day and age, many believe this is a form of empowerment, and a way to educate children with “sex positivity.” In reality, we are looking at the destruction of innocence right before our eyes, and we won’t be silent about it.

    Each year Pride seems to go on a little longer. It’s not just Pride month now, it’s Pride “season.” We firmly believe this is completely unnecessary. We are appalled by scenes like half naked performers taking money from young children like strippers, or kids being taught how to pole dance, or seeing “This Book is Gay” being given to minors. Children are being indoctrinated, sexualized and even medicalized in the name of “LGBTQ acceptance.” The slippery slope has become a very real phenomena and we are on a dark road to legal pedophilia.

    Gays Against Groomers will not let this happen without a fight.



    GAG is the fastest growing, most influential un-woke LGB group. It is also, I believe, the least radical counter-culture LGB group.

    I'm curious. What, if anything do you LGBTQ people and LGBTQ-philes here find objectionable in this, if anything?
    gaysagainstgroomers.com


  326. by Donna on May 23, 2023 9:52 am

    Many LGBTQ people are social conservatives. I sense that there are many people who aren't aware of that.

    You disagree with them on same-sex marriage though, Hts, right?



  327. by HatetheSwamp on May 23, 2023 10:02 am

    No, Donna, I'm well aware of the growing number of conservative LGBs. When I watched Fox, I noticed that about, say, 30%, of the panelists on GUTFELD! are gays. Certainly, LGBs are overrepresented on Fox compared to the general population...and, they interact seamlessly. In fact, I wonder if that ain't a subtle form of recruiting of un-woke LGBs.

    That's why I'm convinced that the woke trans political agenda is a goner. Lots of LGBs and some Ts are on pb's side on all three points of controversy.


  328. by Donna on May 24, 2023 10:59 am

    I don't think there's a "growing number" of conservative TGs. People don't suddenly become conservative because they disagree with some of the ideas of vocal, self-appointed FG spokespersons. My wife and I certainly don't agree with them on every issue.


  329. by Ponderer on May 24, 2023 12:10 pm

    I meant TG.


  330. by Donna on May 24, 2023 12:11 pm

    I, meaning Donna.


  331. by HatetheSwamp on May 25, 2023 12:43 pm

    I don't think there's a "growing number" of conservative TGs. People don't suddenly become conservative because they disagree with some of the ideas of vocal, self-appointed FG spokespersons. My wife and I certainly don't agree with them on every issue.

    Fair enuff.

    There are more prominent people in the mold of the gay Guy Curt never heard of. And, conservative LGB groups are organizing and there's a nice sized mountain of conservative LGB activists. How to splain that phenomenon is a decent question.

    I do wonder what role Fox News, especially, GUTFELD! has played in advancing the prominence of conservative LGB voices...especially social conservative LGB voices.


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