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Biden Beats All the Odds and Knocks It Out of the Park In the SOTU By Ponderer February 7, 2023 7:44 pm Category: President (0.0 from 0 votes) Rules of the Post Write A New Article How To Post Here

I just thought that it was truly a great thing to watch. He really handled it superbly. I can't wait to see what the right tries to use to besmirch his address.

And he handled the MAGA Hats brilliantly and beautifully.

Comments Start Below

by Curt_Anderson on February 7, 2023 7:52 pm He is not exactly a silver-tongued orator. But he outdid my expectations and handled the MAGA hecklers beautifully. I liked how he made those who advocated cutting Social Security and Medicare loudly deny they said it, "good, so we agree!" (I may have paraphrase) I am now watching Sarah Huckabee recite lies as easily as she did as Trump's press secretary. by oldedude on February 8, 2023 1:20 am Republicans Are Trying to Cut Social Security Biden pledged to halt desperately needed cuts to bloated entitlement programs as Congress debates raising the debt ceiling. “If anyone tries to cut Social Security,” the president said, “I will stop them. And if anyone tries to cut Medicare, I will stop them.” The Democrats’ reconciliation bill passed last summer, however, raided nearly $300 billion from Medicare to boost insurance companies by removing leverage from negotiations on drug prices. thefederalist.com by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 2:54 am I've got to hand it to you, Curt. Your enthusiasm seems genuine. It's hard to believe that you're joshin us. But, c'mon man. Gimme a break! by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 4:20 am Oh, and po?, subjectivity is your truth. by Donna on February 8, 2023 5:42 am I wasn't going to watch it, but Sheri wanted to see it, so I watched it. Glad I did. It was the most inspiring SOTU address I've ever watched. by oldedude on February 8, 2023 6:12 am He didn't start out too good though and got off to a rocky start right off the bat for his State of the Union address Tuesday night when he incorrectly referred to his party’s majority leader, Sen. Chuck Schumer, as the “minority leader.” Or mis-stepping when he referred to Ukrainians as Iranians while discussing the ongoing turmoil in Europe as Russia continues its invasion into Ukraine. "Putin may circle Kyiv with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people," Biden said." These are just harmless gaffes though. not the out and out "mis-representations" of the truth. by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 6:18 am Donna, Can you recall a more contentious and divisive Sotu speech even from OrangeMan? by islander on February 8, 2023 6:46 am Spent a VERY enjoyable evening watching Biden’s State of the Union Address! He did a masterful job, even exceeding my expectations !! I liked the way he let the ignorant low-class Republicans make fools of themselves. 👍 by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 6:49 am Just curious, isle, how high were your expectations going in? by islander on February 8, 2023 7:09 am ’m pretty sure my expectations were higher than yours since I expected that Biden would do a good job. by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 7:21 am Having watched both of my parents die with dementia, I know that Joe's gang gets him very juiced up for these times. Whatever it is they give him, it makes him energetic...but very mean and cranky. Joe was not much different from what I expected but I wasn't as impressed as you. I am amazed at how pleased progressives are with his contentiousness. by islander on February 8, 2023 7:48 am Hate wrote: ”Having watched both of my parents die with dementia” You should try to refrain from using your parent’s dementia as a debating tactic to denigrate Biden.. It doesn’t work well for you. You see, that does not give you any more special insights into this than the rest of us who have watched and cared for loved ones living and dying with dementia. Biden isn’t suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's. He looks physically fit and is as mentally fit and capable as any normal person of the same age. by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 8:02 am FYI, Alzheimer's is one type of dementia. My mom suffered from it. Dad: Vascular dementia. BTW, these days I rarely mention it when the guy who waxes nostalgic about his time as a truck driver displays symptoms of dementia. But, if the shoe fits... by oldedude on February 8, 2023 8:21 am I watched both of my parents also. When you recognize it, you recognize it. It's actually help me with empathy. I also have an autistic son (high functioning, scary smart). That has also taught me to work around autism and recognize it so I can work with them instead of against them. It's more of a statement of fact. After all the training a family goes through when they have someone close with these issues, then you see it. It makes a difference. by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 8:51 am It's amazing what caretaking through dementia teaches. As much as I disagree Joe's handlers on policy, my compassion for the man grows daily. I think Jill should be imprisoned for elder abuse, as I've said many times. My take on isle and Curt is that they intentionally keep themselves ignorant of the demented things Joe says and does, or they're as evil as is Jill. by Ponderer on February 8, 2023 9:16 am Yeah, I know what you mean, Bill. Like how it was so despicably inhuman to force FDR to run for president four times with his disability. God bless Joe Biden for pledging not to cut Medicare and Social Security. He even got all the Republicans there last night to agree with him not to cut it! I sure hope the next two years are as successful for him and the American people as these last two were. by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 9:26 am po, Which GOPs had been "pledging...to cut Medicare and Social Security?" by islander on February 8, 2023 9:40 am Hate wrote:”BTW, these days I rarely mention it” [Referring to your false accusations regarding Biden’s mental health] Of course you do...You mention it every time you refer to Biden as "That feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap". by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 9:50 am No, I'm alluding to the soul-crushing sorrow of Kathy McCollum whose son died as a direct result of "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap's" incompetent, brainless, evil withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan. Joe's mental state is the controlling reality of her existence. And, you are an accomplice. katv.com by oldedude on February 8, 2023 10:01 am "Yeah, I know what you mean, Bill. Like how it was so despicably inhuman to force FDR to run for president four times with his disability." There's a vast difference between polio (or a swimming accident) and dementia. But we know you're pretty lighthearted about this. by Curt_Anderson on February 8, 2023 10:19 am I will never understand why Republicans place such higher value on the final 13 military casualties than they do for 2000 who were killed and the 20,000 seriously physically injured in Afghanistan before them. by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 10:23 am That's not at all what it is, Curt...proving that you are right. You don't understand. by Curt_Anderson on February 8, 2023 10:26 am “ That's not at all what it is, Curt...proving that you are right. You don't understand.@ So explain… by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 10:33 am Curt, OD and pb have been making this point with you for a year and a half... by Curt_Anderson on February 8, 2023 10:38 am So you’re well practiced. It should be pretty easy for you now to provide that explanation. So explain why the final 13 are so much more important than the 2000 who preceded them. by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 10:41 am Uh uh. Not true. by Curt_Anderson on February 8, 2023 10:49 am I am not at all surprised that you cannot explain why the final 13 are so much more important than the 2000 soldiers who died in Afghanistan. You cannot explain because it’s simply illogical. It’s a good thing that we have gone 18 months without continuing the average of the 100 US dead soldiers per year that we had been for 20 years. by islander on February 8, 2023 1:41 pm Curt~ What Hate refuses to admit or acknowledge is the fact that there is no neat, clean, or painless way to retreat from a country that you invaded. He doesn't seem to remember our exit from Viet Nam. by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 1:47 pm Korea? Japan? Germany? Oh...those are all working well, AND WE'RE STILL THERE in small numbers. What I luv about this issue is that you are beginning with a choice OrangeMan made, and you're not willing even to consider the possibility that it was the wrong choice. It was, bubbas. And, "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap's" execution of that flawed choice has been disastrous. Guys! Trump is despicable. by islander on February 8, 2023 2:23 pm It was one of the correct choices Trump made to finally pull all our troops out of a country we should not have invaded and had us fighting an un-win-able war for 20 years at a cost of 2,456 U.S.military deaths and 300 million dollars a day...Every day for two decades...Or $50,000 for each of Afghanistan's 40 million people. This would still be going on today with no end in sight if Biden had not ended it. Germany and Japan ‘surrendered’ we didn’t have to evacuate all our troops. North Korea invaded South Korea and that invasion was stopped and all sides involved in the conflict signed an agreement ending the bloodshed. The armistice was signed on July 27, 1953...We did not have to evacuate all our troops. by HatetheSwamp on February 8, 2023 2:34 pm You! Tenaciously defending Trump! pb'll remember! by oldedude on February 8, 2023 2:42 pm "I am not at all surprised that you cannot explain why the final 13 are so much more important than the 2000 soldiers who died in Afghanistan. You cannot explain because it’s simply illogical. It’s a good thing that we have gone 18 months without continuing the average of the 100 US dead soldiers per year that we had been for 20 years." I don't think you give a hoot in h... about any of those who died. At all. You don't have enough empathy to construct that in your mind. I would venture to say you don't have enough empathy to understand one death. You were just told to bleat out this line. That's the only thing you know or understand about it. You've openly said you have no respect for the military, so just go with that. Own that and I'd at least have little respect for you. But you can't because you don't have a clue what you're really saying. The final 13 died as a direct result of the "president's" orders. NOT because they were ill-prepared. NOT because they weren't trained up. NOT because the mission was bad. It was because that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap changed the methods of operating in the AO against the counsel of his advisors. He couldn't stand up to an enemy. He gave in so no one there was safe. Not the military or civilians. Not the Afghans. HE created that. No one else. The buck stops with him. He's the COMMANDER AND CHIEF. Period. End of story. by Curt_Anderson on February 8, 2023 2:48 pm And the previous 2000 who died were not in Afghanistan because of presidential orders? by oldedude on February 8, 2023 2:55 pm During the obomber administration. Yes. That's also when murdered and wounded almost doubled. Because of "Presidential Orders." Before he did them and after those were rescinded, deaths and wounded went down. Again, please don't feign empathy. It just makes you look stupid. by oldedude on February 8, 2023 3:02 pm Sorry I misread. Yes, but the generals were running the show. They actually know the AO. They know Iraqis are cowards and will hide behind women. Afghans will tell you when the farms are done and when the war starts back up. But I guess you have to be there at least once to understand how things work. Then obomber happened (insert prior post here). AND that's what I was saying. He changed up everything that was set up. The IC didn't know how to do that job. Period. It's not their lane. I already talked about this. But your "memory" must be "very short." by Curt_Anderson on February 8, 2023 3:05 pm George W. Bush ordered our troops to invade Afghanistan initially. 564 American soldiers died in Afghanistan under Bush's watch. Where is the sympathy for them that you lavish upon the final 13? by oldedude on February 8, 2023 4:27 pm How I feel about those that die in battle is always the same. Where I differ is the command element. I have a very different feeling about the leadership of the missions with obomber and pedojoe's last stand. You stand off and count numbers. Your empathy ends there. You've openly said you have no respect for the military, so just go with that. Own that and I'd at least have little respect for you. Again, the generals were in charge, unlike obomber and the feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap's last stand. by Curt_Anderson on February 8, 2023 4:44 pm "You've openly said you have no respect for the military, so just go with that." Prove that I said it. Which thread? When? Either it's something you imagined or you misread, misunderstood or misinterpreted something I wrote. by oldedude on February 8, 2023 5:59 pm You said you talked your son in to not going in to the military because of what you thought of them. by Curt_Anderson on February 8, 2023 7:09 pm OD, It's not true that I expressed the thought that I have no respect for the military. I believe that they do a lot of good things. For example, the military is being dispatched to Turkey to help with the aftermath of their earthquake. Had my son insisted on enlisting, we would not have stopped him. However, we had greater aspirations for him. The requirements to join a branch of the military is not particularly stringent. To become a cop in Oregon and to get through the academy takes some doing. Plus we wanted him to get a college degree. Being a cop isn't a matter of mostly following orders. He has to follow procedures, but he doesn't have somebody constantly ordering him around telling him what to do. My son (like most cops) has a lot of personal autonomy--often in the form of split second decisions. by oldedude on February 8, 2023 7:55 pm However, we had greater aspirations for him. The requirements to join a branch of the military is not particularly stringent. To become a cop in Oregon and to get through the academy takes some doing. Plus we wanted him to get a college degree. So you didn't want him to be a "loser" as you stated in another post. You really think of me as stupid. I've seen a million of you. Talking heads that can't talk their way out of a wet paper bag. You're a fake. A shell of a human being. The people they sent to Turkey were parts of what I used to do. They are Medics that go through years of training. They risk their lives So that Others May Live. I was in India during the mudslides, other members of my squadron were at the Tsunami on the Malay. I assisted Japan in two of their Typhoons. And did recovery operations on KAL007 (meaning we picked out bodies, aircraft parts, and luggage in the ocean). I got a college degree, while I was in. And two Master's degrees. The government paid for my BA and .5 of one of the MS. And I'm not an "artist." Don't get me wrong. I appreciate what your son does. Maybe more than you. I actually know what it's like to go out there and put yourself on a line and protect others you may or may not know. Or actually care about. Or not. But we don't get to think like that. To leave your family at the drop of a hat and don't have time to explain yourself. Not being able to talk about what you do, because what you do is sensitive work. He's a brother to me, and I'd use my life to protect him. This is the way we are. We live in a different world than sheep. You need to quit pretending you understand us and the lifestyle. by Ponderer on February 9, 2023 10:20 am "po, Which GOPs had been "pledging...to cut Medicare and Social Security?"" -Hate Mike Lee and others... “It will be my objective to phase out Social Security, to pull it up by the roots and get rid of it,” Lee said at a campaign event in 2010, adding, “There’s going to be growing pains associated with doing this. We can’t do it all at once.” -Mike Lee, Who Appeared So Incredulous at Biden's SOTU Address at the Very Idea That Any Republican Would Ever Even Jokingly Suggest Such a Despicable Idea See the link. Oh...........wait a second... Are you going to try to make an argument that no Republican has ever "pledged", by uttering, writing, or using that exact word, to cut Medicare and Social Security...? And that therefor no Republican has ever even even jokingly suggested such a despicable idea...? Because that would be just so asinine in it's lameness that I almost couldn't bring myself to believe you would go there. msn.com by Ponderer on February 9, 2023 10:23 am This is gonna be one of those, "He never solicited anything from Zalinsky because he didn't use the word solicit," kinda deals, ain't. by HatetheSwamp on February 9, 2023 10:26 am Are you going to try to make an argument that no Republican has ever "pledged", by uttering, writing, or using that exact word, to cut Medicare and Social Security...? Of course not. But, that's the best you could do? by Ponderer on February 9, 2023 10:52 am "But, that's the best you could do?" -Hate Well, you seemed shocked at the very idea that any Republicans would have ever even jokingly suggested such a despicable idea. I guess you'll just have to tell me what the minimum number or Republicans ever suggesting cutting or even phasing out Medicare and Social Security you will accept as sufficient to qualify as "some Republicans", as Biden stated quite factually that there were in his address the other night. Boy oh boy it is gonna be funny as freaking hell when the MAGA House Clowns demand cuts to Social Security and Medicare, or even laws that would destroy them, when they hold paying the national debt hostage in a few months. And the GQP is gonna sit back and vote with them to do it too. And you will obsequiously defend their actions. Funny as freaking hell I tells ya. by HatetheSwamp on February 9, 2023 11:12 am po, GOPs have been exploring innovative ways of preserving and improving Social Security since the 80s...for more than 40 effin years. From the beginning, Dems have politicized and demogogued every attempt to preserve the integrity of Social Security and Medicare beyond about 2030 and, now, we're about a decade from Social Security being under water. Mike Lee is one of the GOPs who tried innovate Social Security. Nasty, evil man, eh! Back in the day when Dems still had moderates and the Flatulent Fool still had a working brain, Clouseau was one of a few Dems who hoped to save Social Security for people born after 1960. Now, his brain's gone and he's unknowingly telling lies. And, if you're younger than pb, most likely, you'll have a difficult future. by Ponderer on February 9, 2023 11:36 am "Mike Lee is one of the GOPs who tried innovate Social Security." -Hate Really...? Would that be by "phasing out" Social Security...? By "pulling it up by the roots and getting rid of it"...? So you agree with him that such an idea would work out in the average citizens' benefit? Bill, the Republicans have had it out for these wildly successful programs since their very inception. Nothing that the GOP has ever tried to do "for" Social Security and Medicare would do anything but cut in some privatized, capitalistic middle man into into the programs for their profit, while putting average people's retirement and healthcare in continuously tenuous jeopardy and diminishing it with sociopathic abandon. by HatetheSwamp on February 9, 2023 11:49 am What I believe, po, is that no one denies that Social Security can't be sustained as it is. Everyone knows that. There's no subjectivity about this one. It's a 2+2 thing. pb also knows that GOPs have struggled to be innovative and progressive about the future of Social Security, and,... ...that Dems have always, always, always been reactionary. As far as I know, Mike Lee has been cowed. So has Kevin McCarthy. So. Don't worry. I also know that I'm old enuff not really to have to worry. You? pt? Good effin luck! You, very likely, will reap what you progressives have sown. by Curt_Anderson on February 9, 2023 11:52 am Long term viability of Social Security and Medicare has at least three solutions. 1. Limit benefits. 2. Increase taxes and SS withholding 3. Increase the number of workers paying into into the programs. That could be accomplished by allowing more immigrants into America. by HatetheSwamp on February 9, 2023 11:57 am So long as the parameters of the programs remain the same. by Ponderer on February 9, 2023 12:03 pm Curt, #1 is literally the only one that Republicans have ever proposed. That's the only way they have ever struggled to be innovative and progressive about the future of Social Security. by HatetheSwamp on February 9, 2023 12:10 pm Bullfernerner, po. by Curt_Anderson on February 9, 2023 12:16 pm "Bullfernerner, po." --HtS Oh yeah? When have Republicans have ever proposed any other ideas? by HatetheSwamp on February 9, 2023 12:18 pm You're kidding by Curt_Anderson on February 9, 2023 12:23 pm Not kidding but I didn't seriously think you'd be able to provide an answer. by HatetheSwamp on February 9, 2023 12:44 pm Curt, I honestly can't figure you out. I'd always considered you to be thoughtful and wide read. But, since "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" was immaculated, you seem as impaired as is he. I have to suspect that you're joking. From progressive SwampMedia salon.com three days ago (but I still think you're not this cognitively declined: "Former Vice President Mike Pence, a possible 2024 presidential candidate, has voiced support for a Social Security privatization scheme that the George W. Bush administration unsuccessfully pushed nearly two decades ago." salon.com by Curt_Anderson on February 9, 2023 1:31 pm Privatization IS #1. Those schemes limit and/or eliminate Social Security and/or Medicare benefits with an your're-on-your-own plan. by HatetheSwamp on February 9, 2023 1:34 pm No, Curt. It ain't. by Curt_Anderson on February 9, 2023 1:44 pm Obviously SS would be reduced. Guess what? We already have a privatization plan. You can now make investments, retire rich and have a lot of money in the bank and spend it on your retirement if you want to---of course there is no guarantees that your investments will pan out. You might be wiped out financially. In that case, tough luck. That's the GOP plan. by Ponderer on February 9, 2023 7:00 pm "Not kidding but I didn't seriously think you'd be able to provide an answer." -Curt And how right you were. He never did. It's a simple, undeniable and well established fact that in the last 20 years, if not more, the Republican party has never authored or proposed a single bill or program solely and specifically designed to actually benefit average American citizens' lives. It has simply not happened. If something they get through does somehow benefit the middle class and poor in any way, it will also be accompanied by some benefit for the rich equating to ten fold what the rest of us got. Hate and olde dude are of course perfectly free to supply examples that they believe contradict this fact, but they, like all other conservative/Republicans who I have asked to do so, will be flatly incapable of doing it. by Curt_Anderson on February 9, 2023 7:18 pm Ponderer, They might if they use a well-worn Republican technique and go back far enough in history. Like Lincoln, a Republican, freed the slaves. by oldedude on February 9, 2023 7:32 pm "the Republican party has never authored or proposed a single bill or program solely and specifically designed to actually benefit average American citizens' lives." No one has. This has been my point for years. NO bill can be for "one" thing regardless of the party, or subject. Your wife and I agree on the point that if a bill says it's "military spending," then that's what it needs to be. I'm not pointing fingers, except to say that is how it's done, and curt agrees with that. They might if they use a well-worn Republican technique and go back far enough in history. Like Lincoln, a Republican, freed the slaves. I've never used that one. It's about the south being slave owning dims. And you walk right into that with the "founding fathers were slave owners and therefore wicked and deranged people" crap. You then continued by calling anyone that lost a war as a "loser." You then had to walk that back while stepping all over yourself because you actually stated what you thought. Countries that lose wars should be treated like crap. Thus your hatred of the US. by Ponderer on February 9, 2023 7:48 pm "No one has. This has been my point for years. NO bill can be for "one" thing regardless of the party, or subject." -olde dude Perhaps by the time they are passed, certainly things have been tacked on. But those things weren't necessarily there when the bills were authored. Bills need to start somewhere as something and my point stands uncontradicted: The Republican party has never authored or proposed a single bill or program designed to actually benefit average American citizens' lives. And if something they get through does somehow benefit the middle class and poor in any way, it will also be accompanied by some benefit for the rich equating to ten fold what the rest of us got. So that being the case, it stands to reason that they could have never proposed anything that would actually benefit people's access to Social Security and Medicare. by Curt_Anderson on February 9, 2023 7:50 pm I don't believe in holding people of the past to the standards of today. Slavery was legal for the first 80 years of our history. Obviously, we know that is morally and legally wrong today. At the time of our founders not so much. We can honor Washington, Jefferson, et al for their contributions to democracy, their hypocrisy as slaveholders notwithstanding. I don't honor those whose only claim to fame is that they fought and killed to keep that "peculiar institution". No president before FDR had a woman in their cabinet, that doesn't make all previous presidents misogynistic monsters. Judge people by the context of their times. I judge historical figures by these measures: if they were moving society (especially America) forward toward a more perfect union, then they are good. If they were footdraggers holding us back or moving us backward, they are not so good. Lincoln=good. Jefferson Davis=bad. by oldedude on February 10, 2023 3:05 am "Perhaps by the time they are passed, certainly things have been tacked on. But those things weren't necessarily there when the bills were authored. Bills need to start somewhere as something and my point stands uncontradicted:" Most of the times, the pork is already in a bill just to get it on the floor and make it easier to get through. This is Kabuki theater. That is how a 7,000 page bill gets introduced. The "authors" need the pork just to get it on the floor. You're naive to think that any bill comes in without it. by oldedude on February 10, 2023 3:27 am "If they were footdraggers holding us back or moving us backward, they are not so good." The "footdraggers" are part of the checks and balances and one of the reasons the constitution you hate (because it doesn't move fast enough) was specifically designed to do exactly that. The Founders knew the mob would attempt to rule. So they made checks and balances. I'm not arguing the names you brought up, although I'm not as fond of Lincoln as you are. Lincoln is like Paul Bunyon. Lots of credit and not much action. That's not to say I thought Davis was anything worthwhile either. But as always, the winning side writes the news. And fabricates history. Especially in the rewriting of history you believe in. AND it depends on your "definition" of foot dragging. If keeping within the Constitution is footdragging, then I am an adamant supporter. If thinking agencies are overstepping their charter is footdragging, I'm in. The left is usually not. You/they either ignore it or call for a rewrite of the constitution. Times when footdraggers would have helped? Vietnam. Banana Wars. Iraq. Trusting China in any economic question. by Ponderer on February 10, 2023 10:13 am So olde dude, do you think that every time a new bill comes to the floor that it should be about one specific thing and that specific thing only? No amendments to a bill should ever be allowed? Because if that was the case, no bills would likely ever be passed at all. I know that such a scenario couldn't make the Republicans happier. But it would keep the Democrats from ever being able to do anything positive or beneficial for the American people. by oldedude on February 10, 2023 1:39 pm "So olde dude, do you think that every time a new bill comes to the floor that it should be about one specific thing and that specific thing only? No amendments to a bill should ever be allowed?" No and you know that. It's a stupid question. AS I SAID, If it is a "farm" bill, you can't have Social Security in that. Nor Military spending. Nor some bridge to nowhere because you owe someone a "favor." IF the amendment is for farms, then by all means. See above if it isn't. by Curt_Anderson on February 10, 2023 2:07 pm Good news OD! The Senate requires only that amendments be germane when they are offered (1) to general appropriations bills and budget measures, (2) under cloture, or (3) under certain unanimous consent agreements and certain statutes. Otherwise, Senators can offer amendments on any subject to any bill.May 1, 2022 https://crsreports.congress.gov by Curt_Anderson on February 10, 2023 2:09 pm Here is the link to my above post. It it opens a PDF document. crsreports.congress.gov by oldedude on February 10, 2023 3:22 pm I already knew that. Had you read the posts, I think it's bullsht that can happen. it needs to be a true part of the bill. I know you rely on all the hog fat that goes in them, but that turns in to the same argument you and the other libs talk crap about. "the GOP voted against making it illegal to murder little old ladies!" It's a lie, and it's a piece out of a 7000 page bill that has a whole bunch of things in it. Including a pay raise for congress and defunding all police and getting shrinks to replace them. Go To Top

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