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The "Good Guys" ARE winning once again !!
By islander
December 1, 2022 1:42 pm
Category: News

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"We’ve gotten used to headlines predicting the demise of democracy. While the threats we face are real, a glance around the globe shows that it’s autocrats who are in retreat right now.

Connect the dots between the demonstrations in China, the months of protests in Iran and Russian President Vladimir Putin’s failures after his invasion of Ukraine and you’ll see that autocrats are on the backfoot as we come to the end of 2022.

The pendulum seems to be swinging back toward democracy. It’s a welcome reminder that the people ultimately have the power and that, for all our imperfections, democracies have more durable strength because of our liberty, diversity and creativity. It’s time to restore our confidence in this global conflict between democracy and autocracy.

A year ago, many people were predicting the opposite trajectory for our time, with The Atlantic capturing the bleak assessment on its cover with the headline, “The Bad Guys Are Winning.” ~ John Avlon CNN

Cited and related links:

  1. cnn.com

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Comments on "The "Good Guys" ARE winning once again !!":

  1. by Curt_Anderson on December 1, 2022 2:13 pm
    We just had a good example of the good guys winning in this country. Anti-democratic, election-denying, Trump endorsed candidates were defeated in their election bids. I made this loser list earlier today:
    Blake Masters, Kari Lake, Kristina Karamo, Don Bolduc, Tudor Dixon, Doug Mastriano, Sarah Palin, Joe Kent, J.R. Majewski, David Perdue, Janice McGeachin, Mo Brooks and Madison Cawthorn. Next week we can probably add Herschel Walker.

  2. by HatetheSwamp on December 1, 2022 2:35 pm

    These people are anti-democratic?

  3. by Curt_Anderson on December 1, 2022 2:45 pm
    Yes, they are anti-democratic. A number of them refuse to accept their own election defeats in democratic elections. All of them refused to accept Trump's defeat in a democratic election. For example:
    Trump, Done with Democracy, Calls on Kari Lake to Be ‘Installed’ as Arizona’s Governor
    yahoo.com

  4. by HatetheSwamp on December 1, 2022 3:30 pm

    You're exaggerating, Curt.

  5. by Curt_Anderson on December 1, 2022 4:32 pm
    No exaggeration, nor can you list anything I said that’s an exaggeration. All of the names I listed above are election deniers. There is nothing more fundamental to a democracy than holding elections and all parties accepting the outcome of the elections.

  6. by HatetheSwamp on December 2, 2022 4:18 am

    Try defining "democratic." You need to start thinking. Stop ejaculating brainless propaganda.

  7. by islander on December 2, 2022 6:00 am

    We're back to this argument again. We've had this before on this board with the two Republican trolls arguing that we are not a democracy we are a republic no matter how many times we tell them that we are a representative democracy. This means that our government is elected by citizens. Here,in our country citizens vote for their government officials. These officials represent the citizens' ideas and concerns in government.

    "The timeworn phrase “we’re a republic, not a democracy,” once confined to campus political debates and the nerdier corners of the political internet, has been bubbling up to mainstream politics for some time now. But it was still jarring, during last week’s vice presidential debate, when Sen. Mike Lee of Utah tweeted, simply, “We’re not a democracy.” He later followed up, “Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prosperity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.”

    Lee’s comment triggered an uproar on social media, and other conservatives took up the line. During the first day of Amy Coney Barrett’s Supreme Court confirmation hearing, Sen. John Kennedy of Louisiana made the point that America is not a “pure democracy” and quoted newspaper columnist James Gill quipping that “we don’t all put on a clean toga and rush down to the forum to vote in person on every issue.”     ~ Click on link to read the rest of the article.

    Democrats unhesitatingly answer "yes" to the question, "Are we a republic or a democracy?" since we're a combination of both. Today's Republicans would rather we didn't use the word democracy when describing our form of government...For obvious reasons they only want it to only be called a republic. After a while it gets boring explaining this to them over and over again.
    slate.com

  8. by HatetheSwamp on December 2, 2022 6:58 am

    Not this time, isle. pb's simply asking what Curt means by his accusation that these people, all of whom have sought elected office, are "anti- democratic."

    That claim is as oxymoronic and detached from fact as is possible.

  9. by islander on December 2, 2022 8:37 am

    "Not this time, isle. pb's simply asking what Curt means by his accusation that these people, all of whom have sought elected office, are "anti- democratic." ~Hate

    Curt already answered your question quite clearly---See post #5 in this thread.

  10. by HatetheSwamp on December 2, 2022 8:57 am

    They are NOT election deniers.

  11. by oldedude on December 2, 2022 10:23 am
    I have to scoff at "election deniers being "anti-democratic." It's an oxymoron. I don't agree with them, but considering the present administration, is the least anti-democratic issue going on. This administration is one that has been bribing news agencies to report what they want (akin to CCP/ Tass/ MFA/ FARS), weaponizing the federal agencies, and dim governors threatening counties to report incomplete election results is extremely anti-democratic. After the "peaceful protests" in the summer of love event that caused $20 BIL in damage, I think it's pretty ballsey to make that accusation after the dims threw money in to bail out arsonists and thieves (and some murders, one wasn't even associated with the "protests").

    This issue with the sheep, is they have screwed up this Republic so bad, they have to have a scapegoat something. Anything. to make themselves feel better.

    They are up in arms about conservatives "censoring" books, after their 50-year tirade of censoring thousands of books including "Huck Finn," "Tom Sawyer, "Diary of Anne Frank," "The Giver," and thousands of other books we grew up with on this site.
    pen.org

  12. by oldedude on December 2, 2022 10:35 am
    I do agree with the basic premise of Isles OP though. Unfortunately, a majority of mulla's in Iran's Parliament wrote a letter to the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei for "severe" punishment of protestors, which may include putting three minors to death. One lessor Ayatollah did make a statement the protestors shouldn't be killed, but it's still a crap shoot for thousands that have been arrested.

    Neither China or Iran (or Russia/ DPRK for that matter) have any sort of standard of treatment for prisoners. No minimum food, water, treatment, lack of torture, etcetcetc.

  13. by islander on December 2, 2022 11:45 am

    Elections are the soul of a Democracy. People who refuse to accept the results of an election and/or destroy people’s trust in our elections are what we call “election deniers” and they are the one’s who can destroy our democracy.

  14. by oldedude on December 2, 2022 12:20 pm
    So if an election can be proved to be crooked, rigged, or otherwise improper, it's THEIR fault for raising an alarm about it. Got it. I know this is how you (all) "feel" about this, and no facts will ever be accepted, but I feel it's far worse to weaponize federal agencies to categorize honest parents who are worried about their children as "terrorists." Thereby putting them on a "watch list that according to the PATRIOT Act, US citizens lose basic rights like the first, second, fourth, and sixth amendments. All this for the shts and giggles of DOJ.

    Or to have six years of "committees" waste the public's time and money on something that hasn't produced any felony.

  15. by islander on December 2, 2022 12:39 pm

    "So if an election can be proved to be crooked, rigged, or otherwise improper, it's THEIR fault for raising an alarm about it. Got it."

    No. You don't get it.

    The election deniers are those who deny the results of an election or try to destroy people's faith in our elections AFTER the elections have been proven not to be crooked, rigged, or otherwise improper.

  16. by Curt_Anderson on December 2, 2022 12:50 pm
    In addition to what islander says above, some of these election deniers were undermining democracy by complaining that elections are rigged BEFORE the elections took place. Or complaining that early voting or vote-by-mail is somehow rigged. Incidentally, that's an excellent example of Republicans being self-owned. The people most likely to give election deniers credence and believe that voting is a waste of time because it's rigged are people who would probably have voted for those election deniers.

    Election-denier-in-Chief Donald Trump shot himself in the foot when he told his supporters that mail-in voting is a “disaster” and “out of control” and suggesting without evidence that Democrats are going to steal the election.
    factcheck.org

  17. by oldedude on December 2, 2022 12:58 pm
    So my question is: Because of these "deniers," were the elections stopped? 2. Were there any laws broken and charges filed against said deniers? Please explain what part of the constitution can be proven in court. Not one of your made up charges, but what charges have the FBI/ DOJ filed against them.

  18. by HatetheSwamp on December 2, 2022 1:23 pm

    Elections are the soul of a Democracy. People who refuse to accept the results of an election and/or destroy people’s trust in our elections are what we call “election deniers” and they are the one’s who can destroy our democracy.

    I disagree, isle...if the election is dishonest.

    Were the people who distrusted elections rigged by Tammany Hall "anti-democratic," or were the crooks who fiddled with the voting destroying democracy?

    Were the people who fought the racism implicit in the Jim Crow laws unpatriotic for objecting to the dishonesty, or was it the White supremacist (Dems) who were at fault?

    The people Curt's calling anti-democratic and election deniers are, for the most part, people who believe in election integrity. As I said, he can ejaculate Blue MAGA propaganda to his heart content...as he has, but your side's sneering sanctimony has done nothing to address the concerns of nearly half of the likely voters who believe that there was significant vote fraud in the 020 election.

  19. by islander on December 2, 2022 1:25 pm

    How did you come up with the idea that we believe a person who denies legitimate election results should be charged with a crime? If they act on their erroneous belief and/or cause others to act in such a way as to disrupt or attempt to disrupt an election, such as what happened on Jan 6, then those people involved should charged with a crime.

    You can "believe" whatever you want about our elections.

  20. by Donna on December 2, 2022 1:30 pm

    od:

    Judge Sanctions Legal Team for Kari Lake and Mark Finchem

    Attorneys for two failed Arizona Republican candidates have been sanctioned by a federal judge for what he said was a series of factual and legal problems in a lawsuit against Arizona election officials.

    The original lawsuit was filed in April by attorneys for gubernatorial hopeful Kari Lake and secretary of state candidate Mark Finchem. 

    The suit seeking to block electronic voting machines was tossed in August, and Maricopa County asked for sanctions on the grounds that attorneys brought claims to court that were demonstrably false. Among them were “vague” allegations that machine counting can produce inaccurate results.

    In the ruling this week, U.S District Judge John Tuchi said the court will not condone litigants furthering false narratives that undermine public trust and that financial penalties are appropriate.

    Tuchi ordered Lake and Finchem’s lawyers to pay Maricopa County’s attorneys fees, the amount of which has yet to be determined.

    fronterasdesk.org

  21. by islander on December 2, 2022 1:54 pm

    That's an good example of acting on demonstrably false and “vague” allegations that machine counting can produce inaccurate results in such a way as to disrupt or attempt to disrupt an election !

  22. by Curt_Anderson on December 2, 2022 2:01 pm
    HtS asked:
    Were the people who distrusted elections rigged by Tammany Hall "anti-democratic,"...

    Yes they are.

    ...or were the crooks who fiddled with the voting destroying democracy?

    More than sixty court cases, countless recounts and audits all concluded that there was no election fiddling. Mike Lindell has spent millions unsuccessfully attempting to prove that our elections are rigged.

    OD asked:
    So my question is: Because of these "deniers," were the elections stopped?

    No. But they wasted a lot people's time. Flat Earthers deny that Earth is a sphere. Their mistaken belief doesn't change the shape of the world. The geocentric camp that denied Galileo's heliocentrism didn't cause the planets to revolve around the Earth. But they stalled advances in scientific thinking for a while. Likewise, the current crop of election deniers are a temporary impediment to democracy.

  23. by HatetheSwamp on December 2, 2022 2:05 pm

    Curt,

    You really think Tammany Hall was on the side of right?

  24. by Curt_Anderson on December 2, 2022 2:22 pm

    Curt,
    You really think Tammany Hall was on the side of right? --- HtS

    On the side of right always? No. No political party or organization is always right. On the side of right often? Yes.

    There is a case to made for the good that Tammany Hall delivered.

    Tammany machine, while often corrupt, gave impoverished immigrants critically needed social services and a road to assimilation. Tammany was responsible for progressive state legislation that foreshadowed the New Deal. Tammany's harshest critics, including cartoonist Thomas Nast, openly exhibited a raw anti-Irish and anti-Catholic prejudice.

    Historian Terry Golway wrote that the benefits that Tammany Hall brought to New York and to the United States outweigh the corruption with which it is associated. Tammany Hall was there for the poor immigrant who was otherwise friendless in New York."
    wbur.org

  25. by HatetheSwamp on December 2, 2022 2:40 pm

    Wow, Curt! And, Vladimir Putin received 77% of the vote in his last election.

    Honest!

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha hoohoohoohoohoohoohoo heeheeheeheeheeheehee hahahahahahahahaha hoohoohoohoohoohoohoo heeheeheeheeheeheehee hahahahahahahahaha hoohoohoohoohoohoohoo hahahahahahahahaha heeheeheeheeheeheehee hoohoohoohoohoohoohoo ha, ahhhhhhhhhhh!

  26. by Curt_Anderson on December 2, 2022 2:50 pm
    It surprises me that Vladimir Putin didn't receive 100% of the vote.

  27. by HatetheSwamp on December 2, 2022 2:59 pm

    Clearly, it was an honest election.

  28. by Curt_Anderson on December 2, 2022 3:22 pm
    So, HtS, by suggesting (in a sarcastic manner) that Russian elections are rigged, you have come around to concluding what most of us knew already: Russia is not a fully functional democracy.

    When will you come around to admitting that Putin and Russia have a propensity to meddle in other countries' elections?

  29. by HatetheSwamp on December 2, 2022 3:26 pm

    What!!!!!?

  30. by Curt_Anderson on December 2, 2022 4:57 pm
    The good guys keep winning...

    In comments #20 Donna referenced a judge who sanctioned election denier Kari Lake for challenging Arizona's voting procedures with "false, misleading and unsupported factual assertions".

    U.S. District Judge John Tuchi said in his decision that:


    Sanctions must be enough to "deter repetition" of similar allegations in the future in addition to the payment of Katie Hobbs’ attorney fees, but it is not yet clear how much Lake will have to pay.

    "Imposing sanctions in this case is not to ignore the importance of putting in place procedures to ensure that our elections are secure and reliable," Tuchi said. "It is to make clear that the court will not condone litigants ignoring the steps that Arizona has already taken toward this end and furthering false narratives that baselessly undermine public trust at a time of increasing disinformation about, and distrust in, the democratic process."

    forbes.com

  31. by oldedude on December 2, 2022 6:48 pm
    And her opponent was the election supervisor. Doesn't that cause a problem with you? Maybe not because the governor's opponent is conservative. And therefore, someone you hate.

  32. by oldedude on December 2, 2022 6:50 pm
    Yet again. full fukking stop. "Because of these "deniers," were the elections stopped? 2. Were there any laws broken and charges filed against said deniers? Please explain what part of the constitution can be proven in court. Not one of your made-up charges, but what charges have the FBI/ DOJ filed against them."

    not one of the sheeple have answered that. there has been nothing but deflection and bullsht. Either put up or shut up.

  33. by Curt_Anderson on December 2, 2022 7:04 pm
    OD, did you have a problem when then Secretary of State Brian Kemp (GA-R) oversaw his own election as governor? Or hundreds of other similar ascensions to the governorship?

  34. by HatetheSwamp on December 3, 2022 3:52 am

    Curt,

    I'll welcome OD's reply but the point to me is the disaster in Maricopa County vote on election day. Clear thinking antiSwampers such as myself can't help being cynical. Again, we'll never know what shenanigans Dems engaged in, if any...

    ...but you made the point yourself. >u>In Georgia, where a GOP ran the election, the running of the election was as smooth as a baby's butt.

    The Dem Swamp is filthy and one of its tricks is to hide behind the veil of, supposed ineptitude. Tens of millions of us have it figured out. Tens of millions of us were not surprised that this happened in a state where a prominent Dem candidate was threatened.


    And, again, Re: your comment in #28, WHAT!!!!!?

  35. by Donna on December 3, 2022 8:06 am

    Maricopa County went Blue in 2020 and 2022, so if there really were "shenanigans" going on, they should have adversely affected Hobbs more than Lake.

    The only problem is that Kari Kake is a sore loser.

  36. by islander on December 3, 2022 8:56 am

    od posts some very odd stuff that makes me wonder what he is talking about and who he is addressing, since the questions he asks are incomplete and don’t make much sense. Makes me wonder if maybe od is carrying on a conversation with himself in his own mind?



    Yet again. full fukking stop. "Because of these "deniers," were the elections stopped? 2. Were there any laws broken and charges filed against said deniers? Please explain what part of the constitution can be proven in court. Not one of your made-up charges, but what charges have the FBI/ DOJ filed against them. ~od

    What does, “Yet again. full fukking stop.” mean?...Stop what?

    ” "Because of these "deniers," were the elections stopped?” That question makes no sense. How could such a thing happen? An election has to take place in order for the deniers to deny the result.

    ”2. Were there any laws broken and charges filed against said deniers?” Only if a denier broke a law. Simply denying the results of an election is not in and of itself a crime as I explained in post #19 in this thread.

    ”Please explain what part of the constitution can be proven in court” Huh? 

And, “Not one of your made-up charges, but what charges have the FBI/ DOJ filed against them.” Again, Huh? What are you talking about, and what charges are you talking about? And who are the “them”?...Are you talking about election deniers again?

  37. by HatetheSwamp on December 3, 2022 9:11 am

    isle,

    OD is right. The MAGAs have always played by the rules and obeyed the law.

    Your side's ridiculous hate speech, accusing people who stand for honest elections as being deniers and anti-democracy is putrid propaganda.

    It may fit when you read Heather and Teri. But, among the open minded and independent thinking, it's recognized as idiocy.

  38. by islander on December 3, 2022 12:29 pm

    "OD is right. The MAGAs have always played by the rules and obeyed the law." ~ Hate

    LoL !! You and od are so much alike !!! 🤣

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