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Republicans and Democracy


By islander
March 11, 2022 3:44 pm
Category: Politics

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In your mind, does the currant Republican party (or at least what the GOP has morphed into) really represent what the Republican party was in the past? Say in the Time of President Eisenhower ? Especially in the GOP’s concept of Democracy?

* “A report last month by Washington, D.C., nonprofit Freedom House, which studies democracy, political freedom, and human rights, painted a bleak picture. “Global freedom faces a dire threat,” authors Sarah Repucci and Amy Slipowitz wrote. “Around the world, the enemies of liberal democracy—a form of self-government in which human rights are recognized and every individual is entitled to equal treatment under law—are accelerating their attacks.” 


“In 2019, Russian president Vladimir Putin told the Financial Times that the ideology of liberalism on which democracy is based has “outlived its purpose.” Multiculturalism, freedom, and human rights must give way to “the culture, traditions, and traditional family values of millions of people making up the core population.” 



*H.R.C.


Cited and related links:

  1. heathercoxrichardson.substack.com

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Comments on "Republicans and Democracy
":

  1. by Curt_Anderson on March 11, 2022 3:59 pm
    As a hint as to how far the GOP has fallen, its leader is complaining his First Amendment rights are being violated by Twitter, YouTube and other private businesses.


  2. by HatetheSwamp on March 11, 2022 4:23 pm

    The GOP is the party of diversity these days. There are elements of Reagan, Bush 2, the Tea Party and, of course, populism.

    Not so long ago, it was the country club party. Now, it's the party of the people.

    Imagine, though, the Dem nominating, say, JFK. He didn't have, for instance, a pro LGBTQIA+++ bone in his body.


  3. by Donna on March 12, 2022 7:48 am
    I don't remember any policy positions JFK espoused regarding LGBT people. Refresh my memory, Hate.


  4. by islander on March 13, 2022 8:20 am

    Another wonderful history lesson by Heather in which she describes the history of democracy in our country and the battles that have been and still are being waged against it. An excellent read !!!

    Except:

    "Now, once again, we are at an inflection point. The rise of global oligarchs and the internet, which enables those oligarchs to spread disinformation, has made significant numbers of American voters once again slide away from democracy to embrace the idea that the country would work better with a few leaders making the rules for the rest of us. In nineteen states, Republican-dominated legislatures have passed laws that restrict the vote and entrench minority rule, even up to allowing state legislatures to overturn election results. If that is permitted to stand, that minority can choose our president, and it is increasingly backing one single man, one individual, to rule over the rest of us.

    If history is any guide, we are at the point when voters of all parties must push back, to say that we do, in fact, believe in the principles stated in the Declaration of Independence, that all people are created equal, and that our government is legitimate only if we have a say in it."


    heathercoxrichardson.substack.com


  5. by HatetheSwamp on March 13, 2022 8:34 am

    I don't remember any policy positions JFK espoused regarding LGBT people. Refresh my memory, Hate.

    Bingo. And support for LGBT... is Blue MAGA orthodoxy today. To support LGBTs is as central to being a Dem today as believing in the Trinity is to Catholics.

    The Dems ain't what they were.


  6. by HatetheSwamp on March 13, 2022 8:42 am

    Republican-dominated legislatures have passed laws that restrict the vote and entrench minority rule, even up to allowing state legislatures to overturn election results.

    Except this ain't true.

    I thought Heather was above this. This is Rachel level, heck!, po level, Blue MAGA hate myth.


  7. by Ponderer on March 13, 2022 10:05 am
    During JFK's time, equality for LGBTs was just in its infancy. Neither political party ever discussed it. There's was no legal protection for LGBT discrimination. Same-sex marriage wasn't even on the radar. The word "transgender" hadn't been invented. There had only been a handful of sex change recipients.


  8. by Donna on March 13, 2022 10:11 am
    Bingo?

    "Imagine, though, the Dem nominating, say, JFK. He didn't have, for instance, a pro LGBTQIA+++ bone in his body."

    No one outside of the LGBT community did. Times are very different now.

    But you know this, Hate. You're such an ass.


  9. by HatetheSwamp on March 13, 2022 10:32 am

    That is as may be. More to the point, this whole thread is asinine.

    Of course, the Republicans ain't what they were 60 years ago.

    But, I'll say this about Dems and GOPs. The list of LGBT friendly GOPs is long as is the list of pro-choice GOPs.

    Show me that inclusiveness and diversity among Blue MAGAs.


  10. by Donna on March 13, 2022 11:07 am
    Red voters are far behind Blue voters on trans issues.


  11. by Donna on March 13, 2022 11:11 am
    Three-quarters of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents (75%) and fewer than half of Republicans and Republican leaners (44%) favor same-sex marriage.

    More independents who lean toward the Democratic Party (81%) favor gay marriage than Democrats (71%). Similarly, Republican leaners are more supportive (56%) than Republicans (37%).

    Support for same-sex marriage now stands at 88% among self-described liberal Democrats and Democratic leaners and 64% among conservative and moderate Democrats. Fewer conservative Republicans and Republican leaners (36%) support same-sex marriage than moderate and liberal Republicans (59%).
    pewforum.org


  12. by Donna on March 13, 2022 11:14 am
    Hate should pitch on a slow-pitch softball team.

    Clear majorities of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic say that, regardless of religious objections, those providing wedding services should treat same-sex couples the same as other customers (67%), and that transgender people should be able to use facilities for the gender with which they currently identify (68%).

    In contrast, similar-sized majorities of Republicans and Republican leaners say that wedding-related business owners should be able to refuse service to same-sex couples on religious grounds (71%), and that transgender people should be required to use the public restrooms of the gender they were assigned at birth (67%).
    pewresearch.org


  13. by Donna on March 13, 2022 11:15 am
    Overall, roughly half of Americans (54%) say that whether someone is a man or a woman is determined by the sex they were assigned at birth, while 44% say someone can be a man or a woman even if that is different from the sex they were assigned at birth.

    Perhaps not surprisingly, considering the widening partisan divide across a variety of issues, Democrats and Republicans have sharply different views on this question. While eight-in-ten Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say that whether someone is a man or a woman is determined by the sex they were assigned at birth, most Democrats and Democratic leaners (64%) take the opposite view and say a person’s gender can be different from the sex they were assigned at birth.

    The survey also finds that Democrats with a bachelor’s degree or more education are more likely than other Democrats to say a person’s gender can be different from the sex they were assigned at birth. About three-quarters (77%) of Democrats with a bachelor’s degree or more say this, compared with 60% of Democrats with some college and 57% of those with a high school diploma or less. No such divide exists among Republicans.
    pewresearch.org


  14. by HatetheSwamp on March 13, 2022 11:32 am

    So, where's your list of LGBT unfriendly Dems. Prolife Dems?

    Neither party bears much of a resemblance to what it once was.

    But, one way the Dems have changed is that y'all demand a rigid orthodoxy. The GOPs have become the party of open minds.


  15. by Donna on March 13, 2022 11:38 am
    So, where's your list of LGBT friendly GOPs. Pro-choice GOPs?


  16. by HatetheSwamp on March 13, 2022 11:54 am

    There are oodles but, as Curt'd say, a PROMINENT GOP, just very much in the news, whose very recently much balleyhooed departure from Sunday Night Football?

    Michele Tofoya.

    But, c'mon Donna, gimme a break!

    You don't know that openness is alive and well among GOPs? And that Dems have imposed a rigid orthodoxy on their membership?

    A point I made in po's WHAT WE STAND FOR thread is that, no matter how audacious the things the Flatulent Fool says and does, Dem don't make a peep. Not a sound. Crickets!

    Rigid compliance. Submission to party leaders. Orthodoxy and orthopraxy is your way...

    ...not ours.

    We da Big Tent.


  17. by islander on March 13, 2022 2:17 pm

    "Except this ain't true."

    It sure is! Here are some examples!

    votingrightslab.org


  18. by HatetheSwamp on March 14, 2022 6:29 am

    isle,

    There's no doubt that GOPs have moved to increase election integrity in response to the shenanigans Dems engaged in to foist the Flatulent Fool on the country but the claim that they're restrictive is mindless, unsupportable Blue MAGA hatemyth.


  19. by HatetheSwamp on March 14, 2022 6:43 am

    ...where's your list of LGBT friendly GOPs.

    Donna. This is how you can be sooooooooo frustrating. Is it that you are ignorant, or lazy!

    My favorite right wing talk radio host is Fox News Radio's, Guy Benson. 3:00-6:00 pm Eastern Time. Effin drive time!

    Benson is sharp as a whip...beloved by the right...

    ...AND HE'S VERY OPENLY GAY.

    That he is gay didn't prevent him from being hired and becoming an influencer on the right...and an important voice among GOPs.

    It's just true that pro life and traditional views of gender and sexuality dominate the GOPs. But, we are not fascists, even among ourselves.

    You Blue MAGAs are. You're close-minded and intolerant, as the lack of pro life voices and LGBT perplexed among you makes undeniable.


  20. by Donna on March 14, 2022 7:37 am
    I was just asking you for what you asked me for.

    As the Pew Research polls clearly show, Republican voters are much more anti-LGBT than Democrats. Try as you may, there's no getting around that inconvenient fact.


  21. by HatetheSwamp on March 14, 2022 10:18 am

    The truth is that pro LGBT people are mainstream in the GOP. Guy Benson, the star of Fox News Radio, proves that. Show me someone who's even iffy on LGBT issues who can speak their mind among Dems without be lambasted!

    Your side absolutely defines intolerance. The GOP world is the place of inclusion and tolerance and acceptance.

    You know what we're talking about. You're not stupid...you can't get away with playing dumb.


  22. by Donna on March 14, 2022 11:22 am
    If you can't accept clear polling data, then I have nothing more to say to you on this.


  23. by HatetheSwamp on March 14, 2022 11:42 am

    Donna,

    OF COURSE THERE ARE MORE ANTI-LGBT PEOPLE IN THE GOP.

    Now, for about the dozenth time, show me anyone at all ...ANYONE ...who is anti-LGBT, or ambivalent toward LGBT concerns who's taken seriously and accepted in the Blue MAGA world.

    ANYONE.

    Because the point is that everyone is welcome in the GOP. Apparently, based on you, in the Dem, many ain't!

    I will admit that the only party where LGB is accepted is the GOP. Bahahahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh.


  24. by HatetheSwamp on March 14, 2022 12:28 pm

    Re pb's: My favorite right wing talk radio host is Fox News Radio's, Guy Benson. 3:00-6:00 pm Eastern Time. Effin drive time!

    Benson is sharp as a whip...beloved by the right...

    ...AND HE'S VERY OPENLY GAY.


    Gang,

    At this very moment, I'm listening to Guy Benson. Unlike Rush, Benson occasionally has guests.

    For this 3:00 EDT hour he's hosting Bill Barr who thinks Trump is despicable...

    ...but would vote for him again to avoid a Blue MAGA candidate.

    Bahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh!


  25. by Donna on March 14, 2022 3:25 pm
    Joe Manchin is opposed to same-sex marriage.

    According to the Pew poll, 75% of Democratic voters support Guy's marriage to his husband Adam while only 44% of Republican voters do.


  26. by HatetheSwamp on March 14, 2022 3:39 pm

    Donna,

    Are you effin INSANE?

    I'm not saying that the GOP is as in favor of SSM as are the Dems. I'm saying that the GOP is open and inclusive, that someone who supports LGBT rights can go quite far in the GOP. Guy certainly has, but SOMEONE WHO OPPOSES LGBT CONCERNS WON'T BE ACCEPTED As a Dem because you Dems ain't open and inclusive.

    As far as Manchin and SSM: is Manchin anti LGBT? SSM is a bit of a different issue than acceptance of LGBT people as individuals.

    Same sex marriage was, precisely as I predicted, foisted on America by the Courts. It's certainly possible to have concerns about same sex marriage but still be accepting of LGBTs.


  27. by Donna on March 14, 2022 4:06 pm
    I don't think I'm insane. Are you?

    To date there has only been one Republican US House or Senate candidate who has won after coming out as gay or being outed as gay (Gunderson, WI). I lost count adding up all of the Democratic US House and Senate candidates who won after it was known publicly that they're gay.

    So if you're a Republican who supports SOME (not all) equality for LGBTs, you have a chance of winning an election as long as you yourself aren't openly gay.


  28. by HatetheSwamp on March 15, 2022 5:02 am

    Donna,

    As this dialog spins in circles, I'm beginning to think that I could wish you were merely insane. C'mon man. Gimme a break.

    The Dem party has become a group of people who practice a rigid, oppressive, orthodoxy...

    ...and, increasingly, more and more all the time, the GOPs, surprisingly, have come to practice acceptance, inclusion, openness...kindness.

    As a transsexual, you have, rightly, yearned for acceptance, inclusion, openness...kindness and, in the Dem party, you have found that...and now have the opportunity to exclude all who think differently than you.

    I think that that's ironic...and sad.

    Here's my opinion about the widening differences between Dems and GOPs.

    Covid made both parties become more of what they truly are and the GOPs worked tirelessly for the preservation of individual liberty. Dems (and I want to be fair in describing it, though I stand against it wholeheartedly)...

    ...stood for the subjugation of the people for the greater good. In blue states, authoritarianism became the way.

    You believed in restrictions and mandates from your core. My sense is that all of you were annoyed when you were reminded that the US has a Bill of Rights.

    And, now, among yourselves, authoritarianism reigns. A rigid orthodoxy has to be enforced,...especially among yourselves.

    The biggest change in GOPs in the last, what? 30 years?, is a shift from conservatism to libertarianism. We now, much more than ever, believe in freedom and, more importantly by far, effin LIVE freedom...acceptance, inclusion, openness...kindness.

    So, openly gay Guy Benson has a comfortable home over here. Glenn Beck would be tarred and feathered if he wanted to do his thing as a Dem.

    Much more to the point, you, being everything you are, would be embraced here. I, being who I am, on your side?, it'd be ugly.

    I'll stick with our acceptance, inclusion, openness...kindness.


  29. by Donna on March 15, 2022 8:16 am
    Well you do that then, Hate. You can also stick with your hyperbole, half-truths, convenient cherry-picking, spin, assorted fairy tales, and outright lies.



  30. by HatetheSwamp on March 15, 2022 8:34 am

    No, Donna. I don't but that.

    Which part isn't true? The Guy Benson part? Glenn Beck? Someone like me fitting in today's Dem party?

    The blue state mandates? The GOPs pounding their drum for the Bill of Rights?

    Because, as far as I can tell?, what I wrote is bang on.


  31. by Donna on March 15, 2022 8:53 am
    We've already debated some of those things you listed.

    I've resolved to stop wasting so much of my time arguing with you. It's the same attitude I adopted a long time ago with the Loony Woke Left.


  32. by HatetheSwamp on March 15, 2022 9:03 am

    Just reply to my point. Then I will drop it.


  33. by Curt_Anderson on March 15, 2022 10:15 am
    "Just reply to my point. Then I will drop it." HtS

    You do that a lot. You indicate you have a point without saying succinctly what it is. Maybe you made a point but few people are willing to search past posts to determine what it was.


    If your point cannot be said (or repeated) briefly without fanfare it's not much of a point. Remember, what you think is an obvious point others may not recognize as such.


  34. by HatetheSwamp on March 15, 2022 10:38 am
    As po'd say, Curt, Go f*ck yourself.

    My point is that the GOP is inclusive and open and Dems are not, as I illustrate IRL thusly:

    So, openly gay Guy Benson has a comfortable home over here. Glenn Beck would be tarred and feathered if he wanted to do his thing as a Dem.

    Much more to the point, you, being everything you are [Donna], would be embraced here. I, being who I am, on your side?, it'd be ugly.

    I'll stick with our acceptance, inclusion, openness...kindness.


    So. Respond to my argument. The GOP is inclusive. The Dems ain't.


  35. by Curt_Anderson on March 15, 2022 11:47 am
    HtS
    That isn't a point, that's a claim. Your evidence in support is one gay guy named Guy. Not very convincing.


  36. by HatetheSwamp on March 15, 2022 12:34 pm

    "The guy named guy."

    You homophobe! Bahahahahahahahahahaha.

    You don't know who Guy Benson is! You could have skimmed the last few posts in the thread to alleviate your ignorance.


  37. by HatetheSwamp on March 15, 2022 1:42 pm

    Seriously, Curt, not knowing who Guy Benson is doesn't make you a homophobe.

    What it makes you is a bubba. A redneck...someone who's ignorant and d*mn proud of it.

    In all my years, I can't remember an instance in which a poster here boasted not to know something.

    My felicitations to you for your transparency. You're a rare bird.


  38. by islander on March 15, 2022 2:22 pm

    To get back on point.

    "Republicans such as Senator Mike Lee of Utah have taken to reminding the public that “we’re not a democracy.” It is quaint that so many Republicans, embracing a president [Trump] who routinely tramples constitutional norms, have suddenly found their voice in pointing out that, formally, the country is a republic. There is some truth to this insistence. But it is mostly disingenuous. The Constitution was meant to foster a complex form of majority rule, not enable minority rule." We are in fact a "Democratic Republic".

    As far as Hate's nonsense goes, he's right that Glenn Beck would not be welcome in the Democrat Party. But not because he's straight, gay, or whatever, but because of his political views. Elizabeth Warren would not be welcome in the Republican party because of her political views.


    theatlantic.com


  39. by HatetheSwamp on March 15, 2022 2:45 pm

    pb has reminded the SS community many times, THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

    It ain't.

    When elections aren't diddled, we are democratic.



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