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Military selectors, pages, etc.
Sens. Kennedy and Sinema propose Bill requiring accountability for Ukraine aid
By HatetheSwamp
October 5, 2023 12:08 pm
Category: Military

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We all know that Ukraine is ripe with corruption. Even the Doddering Old Fool himself got an allegedly corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor dismissed.

You wanna know why support for Ukraine is declining in the US?

This is one reason. Who here'd oppose this bipartisan piece of legislation?

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Comments on "Sens. Kennedy and Sinema propose Bill requiring accountability for Ukraine aid":

  1. by Curt_Anderson on October 5, 2023 1:07 pm
    How would it be determined?

  2. by oldedude on October 5, 2023 1:16 pm
    I adamantly agree with this. I also think this is the only way you're going to get any money to Ukraine at all. Uk

    Case in point: Ukraine Commanders Sold Western Arms to Syrian Criminals

    A Turkish news website, ODATV4 has photos (see below) of US and French arms sent to Ukraine but sold by Ukrainian commanders to arms dealers in Jihadist-controlled Idlib. Apparently $83 billion in military hardware left in Afghanistan wasn’t enough.

    TOTAL INCOMPETENCE
    As we already reported, the US Pentagon has no idea where the weapons they send to [the corrupt nation of] Ukraine end up. They don’t even know what is going on over in Ukraine except from news out of [corrupt] Ukraine that our media takes as gospel.

    Additionally, we reported yesterday that Europe is deeply concerned that these arms will end up in the European nations. There is no oversight and no way to track them. They know some fall into Russian hands and some are in the hands of criminals.

    Elizabeth Warren and some other politicians finally noticed, but not until we sent over $50 billion in arms and cash. Sen. Rand Paul begged for oversight of these weapons but his colleagues refused.

    UKRAINE COMMANDER SELLS THE WEAPONS TO CRIMINALS
    The anti-tank weapons and assault rifles that Western countries sent to Ukraine came out of Syria. The jihadist arms dealer told Turkish TV that he bought them from Ukrainian commanders and brought the weapons to Syria’s Idlib region. He quoted a price of 15 thousand dollars for anti-tank weapons, including the US-made Javelin. They are worth $178,000 apiece.

    Despite the shipment of anti-tank weapons and ammunition exceeding 3 billion dollars, the Ukrainian army lacks equipment and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky constantly demands new weapons from Western states.
    independentsentinel.com
    globalresearch.ca

  3. by Curt_Anderson on October 5, 2023 1:17 pm
    This reminds me of candidates who promise to eliminate “waste, fraud and abuse”. Of course! We do know that Ukraine is doing all the fighting and dying. We know that they fought off the Russians much longer than expected.

  4. by islander on October 5, 2023 1:25 pm
    Exactly, Curt !

    Everybody feels there must be accountability and not just for money spent aiding Ukraine. However unless their bill shows the problems that are there now and their proposals as to how how we can fix them it's just showboating.

  5. by HatetheSwamp on October 5, 2023 1:31 pm

    The GOP and Independent Senators propose the appointment of an Inspector General as there was in the Afghan War.

  6. by HatetheSwamp on October 5, 2023 1:45 pm

    isle,

    Are you an ostrich? It's indisputable that Zelenskyy is clamping down on free speech and freedom of religion and that he's canceled the coming election. He's on a path to proclaiming himself President for Life. pb's not saying that he'll do that but if he were to, he'd be behaving precisely like this.

    And, isle, no one on SS has been more in favor of support for Ukraine in this war than ol pb. From the beginning, pb's stated repeatedly that Biden's leadership has been too timid and that Joe seems only to watch Ukraine to lose slowly. pb wants us to support Ukraine more aggressively...

    ...but support for Ukraine is declining steadily. One reason is the issue Sinema and Kennedy hope to address through this legislation.

    If you do oppose this bipartisan bill, please splain why because I can see why one would.

  7. by Curt_Anderson on October 5, 2023 1:56 pm
    "The GOP and Independent Senators propose the appointment of an Inspector General as there was in the Afghan War." --HtS

    And we all know how well the Afghan War went! The United States spent $2.3 trillion on the war in Afghanistan. The US has provided $113 billion in aid to Ukraine since the Russian invasion. If my math is correct we spent 20 times as much in Afghanistan as we have in 18 months in the Ukraine. Also 2,402 United States military personnel were killed in Afghanistan. Another 20,713 American servicemembers were wounded in action.


  8. by Curt_Anderson on October 5, 2023 2:09 pm
    "Zelenskyy is clamping down on free speech and freedom of religion and that he's canceled the coming election." ---HtS

    Yes, the speech and religion of Russian Orthodox collaborationist clergy.

    20% of the Ukraine is occupied by Russia. Other than the very elderly, practically the entire Ukrainian population is either busy fighting or in the case of the mostly women and children outside of the country where it's safe to raise a family. They cannot afford to hold an election under those conditions.

  9. by HatetheSwamp on October 5, 2023 2:23 pm

    Yes, the speech and religion of Russian Orthodox collaborationist clergy.

    Translation:

    I DESPISE THE RADICAL LIBERTIES THAT ARE THE CORE PRINCIPLES OF OUR DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, BILL OF RIGHTS AND LINCOLN'S GETTYSBURG ADDRESS.

    Good for you, Curt. This is America.

    I'll repeat my argument. Support for Ukraine is declining and this is a primary reason.

    More and more, people are realizing that Ukraine isn't interested in being a democracy. Our citizens aren't going to be eternally patient with this kleptocracy.

  10. by Indy! on October 5, 2023 3:09 pm

    Best (read: "only") way to end the waste? Stop sending weapons. But we can't because then Ukraine couldn't arm our future "madman dictator" "enemies" for the future wars for profit. Same reason we purposely "left" those weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan when we left. It says something about the gullibility, submissiveness and outright stupidity of Americans that the majority are still buying the military propaganda after spending 20 years in Afghanistan, accomplishing absolutely nothing and then arming the very people we were allegedly fighting in the war with $87 billion worth of high tech weaponry so the next time we need an "enemy" they will be better armed for a longer and even more futile war for profit.

    Bottom line? Anyone still supporting Ukraine is a fucking idiot.

  11. by Indy! on October 5, 2023 3:12 pm

    To peebs last post there - when have we EVER turned one of these countries we're "fighting" into a democracy with similar rights in the Constitution? That's just another fairy tale created by the MIC to keep the weapons gravy train rolling. You have a better chance of meeting Santa Claus than that ever happening.

  12. by HatetheSwamp on October 5, 2023 3:26 pm

    Indy,

    Exactly. You know that and I know that. But, the SS electric limousine lovers have been charmed by Zelensky. They believe he's, in the purest sense, a secular Saint.

    I noted to isle that I'm not suggesting that Zelensky is setting himself up to the President for Life. Maybe he's not. But, he's doing what he would do if that was his plan.

    I won't be surprised on the day he does exactly that.

  13. by oldedude on October 5, 2023 3:31 pm
    To peebs last post there - when have we EVER turned one of these countries we're "fighting" into a democracy with similar rights in the Constitution?

    Irish Republic (Ireland without british rule) is the closest constitution in the rest of the world. And even then it's laces with many of the laws that are English.

    Then there's Panama and Costa Rica. Both of these are a little strange. They don't have a military, but their National police have helicopter gunships. and a "Coast Guard" with armed ships. Only one of these we actually had and turned over. No Country would take our Constitution. It's not practical for them. It's a completely different culture and don't understand the need for some of our laws (income tax?). Just like my grandfather didn't understand how they could keep him from making liquor in the shed (well they didn't really but it was used for grandpa, and family times).

    Ukraine has it's own cultures. You won't get an American style anything from them. They have their own history. MY thought though, is to keep going with the added accountability. These things have a serial number. If they don't play by the rules, it could (under Ukrainian law, treason, selling national weapons to the enemy). But that's up to the Ukrainians.

    Secondly, even with the munitions they've actually used, they're very willing to stand their ground. They've adapted to a sizable guerilla warfare very close to a modern Mosby's Battalion of Rangers. I'm pretty sure they have enough supporting the war, and with the help of Poland (the next step for Putin), and other countries they can actually pull this off. It just needs accountability.

  14. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 6:33 am

    Bill, olde dude, Indy!...


    Why do you think that allowing Russia to fully invade and annex Ukraine would be a preferable situation to helping the Ukrainians defeat them?



  15. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 6:39 am
    jjpo- I am just wondering WTF were you thinking when you asked that question?

    I, for one, have NEVER said that. At all. Not in a million years. That's just a bald faced lie.

    Asking for accountability is NOT refusing aid. Again, we either completely want everything you want, or we are the devil incarnate.

  16. by Donna on October 6, 2023 6:55 am

    Oh my God, what flaming ignorance to demand that - unless Ukraine controls where every piece of equipment goes and that it conducts national elections while it's fighting for its life as a sovereign nation in the most brutal European war since WW2 - we stop sending them aid.

    Putin must be laughing his ass off at how easily some Americans swallow his propaganda.

  17. by HatetheSwamp on October 6, 2023 6:57 am

    Exactly, OD. pb was warning that the Doddering Old Fool was too weak against Russia since before fighting commenced.

    Oy, and I've never stated this before but, lately?, po's comments have been increasingly irrational and detached from reality...and, I don't think po's capable of joshin us.

    Y'know,...

    po ain't young.

    It's early, but far from impossible. po might be in the early stages of dementia. This ain't much different than the way my dad was during what we later understood to be Stage 1 and 2 dementia.

    Either way. po's comment is entirely disconnected from reality.

  18. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 7:05 am

    Oh!

    Okay. So apparently no one here, besides Indy!, think we should stop arming the Ukrainians.

    Great! I'm glad we got that settled. There was a bit of confusion here about that. A lot of you were giving indications to the contrary.


    So then I guess this question is just for Indy!:

    Indy!, since the rest of us here and the largest percentage of the country are all in favor of sending Ukraine arms and ammo to stop Russia's heinous aggression, why do you think that allowing Russia to fully invade and annex Ukraine would be a preferable situation to helping the Ukrainians defeat them?

  19. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 7:07 am

    "pb was warning that the Doddering Old Fool was too weak against Russia since before fighting commenced." -Hate

    Wow! So Gang, Hate here seems to be of the opinion that Biden isn't sending enough weapons to Ukraine. For once I actually agree with him!

    😲

  20. by HatetheSwamp on October 6, 2023 7:26 am

    po,

    If you ain't suffering from dementia, you're either a moron or a liar.

  21. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 7:59 am

    Well... what did you mean by saying Biden was too weak against Russia? I am assuming about Ukraine...?

    I know that explaining your views is neigh on to impossible for you, but could you give it a real good try?

  22. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 8:03 am
    I would also include allowing the Russian oligarchs to funnel money through his son. By not mentioning them in the treasury sanctions, it allows known financiers of putin to exchange in to dollars instead of Yen. That's a boom for the russians and putin specifically.

  23. by HatetheSwamp on October 6, 2023 8:07 am

    He's always been passive and reactive...never pro-active. "That feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" has always allowed Putin to define the terms of this battle.

    One of the first critiques of Joe's handling of the war was that Joe's engineering a slow defeat of Ukraine,...

    ...that the Former Truck Driver is using Putin and Zelensky to justify his financial support of the US war industry...

    ...and, he is.

  24. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 8:58 am

    So Bill, are you suggesting that Biden should have sent more weapons way sooner than he did...? 'Cuz again, I would be in complete agreement with you.

  25. by Donna on October 6, 2023 8:58 am

    Armchair quarterbacking by someone who has zero experience conducting a war and who knows diddlysquat about foreign affairs. I'm glad you aren't in charge, Hts.



  26. by HatetheSwamp on October 6, 2023 10:20 am

    Armchair quarterbacking by someone who has zero experience conducting a war and who knows diddlysquat about foreign affairs. I'm glad you aren't in charge, Hts.

    I fully acknowledge my inexperience in these matter and I'd never presume to suggest specific policy nor strategy...

    ...still, many in the national conversation are saying things that I echo.

    But, Donna. po. isle. Curt!

    You have put yourself in exactly the position that the commie-hating super patriots assumed during Vietnam.

    Anyone who mutters a discouraging word about our President and his Generals is, what?, a traitor? Or, what!!!! You tell me.

    No one here is in favor of support for Ukraine more than ol pb. But, to suggest that that support demands mindless obeisance to Joe is antidemocratic and un-American.

    C'mon man. Gimme a break!

    What your ilk has done to what it means to be progressive in America? It's an unmitigated tragedy. Pathetic.

  27. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 10:46 am
    One of the first critiques of Joe's handling of the war was that Joe's engineering a slow defeat of Ukraine,...

    It's a typical dim plan of warfare. Much like obomber giving them blankets and MREs and refused any military aid at all.

    But a little is just as bad. I do agree with Kennedy and Sinema. In the amount of arms we've given them, we need accountability. It's sounding like about 1/4 to 1/3 of the munitions were sold by unit commanders. That's really bad, but my guess is maybe typical for the country and considering they weren't prepared so they're fighting a guerilla war. If those weapons systems would get to the folks on the ground, that would be unbelievable.

  28. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 12:28 pm

    "You have put yourself in exactly the position that the commie-hating super patriots assumed during Vietnam." -Hate


    Oh dear dear dear...

    Bill, we've been over this and over this. All you ever accomplish by trying to construct an equitable comparison is to put a blinding spotlight on your boundless inability to ever be capable of doing such a thing.

    It's better for you to stay silent and let us all think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt that you are.

  29. by Indy! on October 6, 2023 12:38 pm

    So now Indy is the one who allowed Russia to invade Ukraine? Geez, I must be far more influential than I thought. 🤔

    Here's some questions for the people still falling for this charade...

    If Ukraine is so important... how come none of the countries "supporting" Ukraine are throwing their armies behind their words? We've got a few "advisors" and some "support troops" to show them how to shoot these weapons over there - but if scary old coot Putin and Russia are such an existential threat - why isn't the US and Europe committing everything we got?

    Why didn't we tell that "mad dictator" Putin beforehand we would be doing this 👆before he invaded Ukraine in order to dissuade him?

    Why aren't we still fighting the taliban in Afghanistan? Remember that was the last existential threat facing our nation. I guess now it's okay if Afghanistan lets al qaeda back into the country to bomb us with out own airplanes again sometime soon?

    What about Kuwait? How's that "shift to democracy" going over there?

    What about Vietnam? Aren't they still run by the communists? You guys aren't worried about the Domino Theory?

    Korea anyone? North Korea still has those nukes and still want to merge the country back with the South.

    Civil War? Looks more and more likely with every general election we have...

    More "wars" to come... 🙄

  30. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 12:47 pm

    "If Ukraine is so important... how come none of the countries "supporting" Ukraine are throwing their armies behind their words?" -Indy!

    Why should they? We're not even doing that. They aren't itching to give Putin the go ahead tofuck with them too by sending their armies into the Frey. Why should they be?


    And you can take all of your irrelevant what abouts and stuff them. This situation is this situation. It's not any other situation that you might want to compare it to.

    Reality is different from day to day, Indy!. You're so stuck on making everything out to be like everything else. It's a really lazy way to think.

  31. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 3:26 pm
    Indy- My view is that NATO got together and agreed anything but boots on the ground. It was almost too much when the Poles were willing to change the aircraft paint and put on Ukranian markings. So I don't think it's anything more than that.

  32. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 3:28 pm
    Sorry, that way we're not obliged to get into a world war. If only the ukranians are killed and no NATO troops, then NATO isn't attacked.

  33. by Curt_Anderson on October 6, 2023 3:46 pm
    Btw, even though I have my doubts about the efficacy of an accountability auditor, it's good idea to have one. It's kabuki theater but it gives congressional Republicans who have anti-tax, isolationist constituencies evidence of their fiscal conservative bona fides.

  34. by oldedude on October 6, 2023 4:58 pm
    We can track down the units by the serial numbers on the weapons to know who's selling them. So when they're found in Afghanistan, we'll know if it's from the pedojoe fiasco, or from Ukraine.

  35. by Indy! on October 6, 2023 8:13 pm

    Pondy: Why should they? We're not even doing that. They aren't itching to give Putin the go ahead tofuck with them too by sending their armies into the Frey. Why should they be?

    So what you're saying is exactly what I'm saying - Ukraine is not worth it. Thanks for your support. I figured you'd come around eventually. 🙄

  36. by Ponderer on October 6, 2023 9:19 pm

    No. I'm saying that Ukraine is absolutely worth it. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me.

  37. by Indy! on October 7, 2023 8:15 am

    So those countries (including us) disagree with that course of action - just as I said originally. IOW, we don't really support them except thru weapon sales. It's a business proposition like all U.S. wars.

    We're back to square 1 in case anyone is having trouble following.

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