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I didn't want to sideline Lead's thread so I started another One
By oldedude
January 16, 2026 5:19 pm
Category: Health
(0.0 from 0 votes)
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From " Note to po:"

myce- The most obvious example is when they think it's their business to restrict women's access to reproductive/health care,

The difference in that is Christians (and many other religions) consider that murder of the child. If an abortion doesn't do that, please let me know. It's a different value and facet of the same result. The murder of a human being. This is something to dwell on. Does a successful abortion result in the purposeful death of the child? I think that's a given and something we agree on. The huge question is the quagmire of hatred and nobody listening or being heard.

Where should it be "legal." I see this as the central dispute. There is from "The government has no right to say," to "the government has an obligation to make it illegal in all circumstances. My step son and my wife are in the that crowd.I am in the middle accepting that not everyone has the lily- white life with unicorns and lollipops, and rainbows, everything.


Oh yes, and the idolators were burning children alive, too. What we have seen from the Epstein files suggests Trump witnessed the murder of an infant born to a 13-year old sex trafficking victim that Trump had raped. MAGA wants America to be as depraved as Sodom and Gomorrah.

So first, other than your "article" there is no other mention of that in any reliable source. You might want to change that and chalk that up to a LIE that you fell into hook, line, and sinker. You might want to go to a more reliable story about the terrorists on 10/7.

What also comes from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah and the reasons are: parents having sex with their sons/daughters, and men having sex with men, women having sex with women. This is included in that part of the Bible and is echoed in the new testament.

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Comments on "I didn't want to sideline Lead's thread so I started another One":

  1. by myce on January 16, 2026 8:09 pm
    Oldedude, in my opinion, a “child” actually resembles a child, and what has most significance to me is whether the human being shows awareness. I think that starts late in the second trimester, and I believe a second trimester or later abortion is killing a child. But I do not agree that abortion is the same thing as murder. After the time of viability, I am most uncomfortable with abortion, but it's usually tragic circumstances that would make it possible.

    I think political Christians have beliefs about abortion that allow them to use it as a wedge issue that has more to do with control than genuine concern for life. If a pro-lifer is genuinely pro-life, then I think their beliefs would be more consistent, ie. caring for mothers and all people as much as they care for unborn children. Feminists for Life is one. I disagree with them ideologically on abortion, but I respect the consistency of their beliefs in supporting women. So I judge a pro-lifer by whether they are motivated to control people or help people. The political ones are sneaky and lie about their motives.

    On the topic of the alleged infanticide witnessed by Trump, generally I would agree with you that the government is not a reliable source, especially the White House, DHS, or anything of the federal government under Trump. But in this case, the document I cited came directly from the Epstein files. Please see the Epstein Library on the Department of Justice website. Search “infanticide” and you will see it pulls up the same document.
    justice.gov


  2. by oldedude on January 16, 2026 8:58 pm
    On the topic of the alleged infanticide witnessed by Trump, generally I would agree with you that the government is not a reliable source, especially the White House, DHS, or anything of the federal government under Trump. But in this case, the document I cited came directly from the Epstein files. Please see the Epstein Library on the Department of Justice website. Search “infanticide” and you will see it pulls up the same document.

    I'm just asking you to question this for a minute. IF this was such a huge fucking thing. Why isn't it in the news? Why haven't the libtards in the house and senate already move for pushing trumpster out of the presidency? That makes ZERO sense. You understand they really tried to get him out of the presidency for four years and none of their LIES worked, right? So why would they leave this alone? Obviously, reliable news sources understand it's a fucking lie and won't spin it. This actually include the typically non-reliable news sources such as the "rolling stoned" and a whole bunch of non-reliable sources. I think you may want to reconsider your "story" as at best fictitious and something that wasn't so easily melted into a lying scheme would fall for. So far, your "story" reeks of someone luring stupid people to post something that is a total lie. If it wasn't, there would be global stories on this, don'tyathink? I understand that asking for a rational act is a bit much at this point.


  3. by myce on January 16, 2026 9:15 pm
    You seem defensive.


  4. by oldedude on January 16, 2026 9:59 pm
    nope. Just running the facts. My first clue is (again) that no one else with any integrity is running the story. So I looked it up. 20251226 this came out from the LA Times, not what you would call a "friend" of the administration's.

    The other thing that I truly suspect is that you are completely uneducated regarding the years of criminal activity that both obomber and pedojoe were involved in and got caught. The issue here is that Lead and I are expected to fully cover and cite everything. The libfuks, not so much. so I'm also asking for citations. Mine are done in doctoral/ professional style. I will actually tell you where you look for the information in the citations. And your citation was very easy to follow, so thanks for that.

    Nowhere in the newly released files do federal law enforcement agents or prosecutors indicate that Trump was suspected of wrongdoing.
    Hundreds of thousands more documents are expected to be released in the coming weeks.
    WASHINGTON — Tips provided to federal investigators about Donald Trump’s alleged involvement in Jeffrey Epstein’s schemes with young women and girls are “sensationalist” and “untrue,” the Justice Department said on Tuesday, after a new tranche of files released from the probe featured multiple references to the president.

    The documents include a limousine driver reportedly overhearing Trump discussing a man named Jeffrey “abusing” a girl, and an alleged victim accusing Trump and Epstein of rape. It is unclear whether the FBI followed up on the tips. The alleged rape victim died from a gunshot wound to the head after reporting the incident.

    Nowhere in the newly released files do federal law enforcement agents or prosecutors indicate that Trump was suspected of wrongdoing, or that Trump — whose friendship with Epstein lasted through the mid-2000s — was investigated himself.
    [1]
    latimes.com


  5. by oldedude on January 16, 2026 10:12 pm
    Considering the post above that. The fact that you don't consider that "a child" seems sociopathic to me. So in one case, you consider it "infanticide" and in the other "instance" you don't. That sounds like a complete psychosis to me. Making up fantasies that you can make work for your own benefit. I'm just saying it has nothing to do with logical thinking. Infanticide has truly an epic negative view in a civilized society. And with you.... you immediately change the term from one of being okay with murder, and in the next sentence you're calling it murder, and on top of that (gasp!) you're calling it infanticide, which is a humanitarian issue that people have been hanged for. And of course, to find that it was known to be false as of Christmas, is another issue. Obviously, you don't research too well.


  6. by myce on January 16, 2026 10:23 pm

    I gave you a link to the ORIGINAL SOURCE. But did you read your own source?
    The documents include a limousine driver reportedly overhearing Trump discussing a man named Jeffrey “abusing” a girl, and an alleged victim accusing Trump and Epstein of rape. It is unclear whether the FBI followed up on the tips. The alleged rape victim died from a gunshot wound to the head after reporting the incident.

    I thought sex trafficking was something you were very concerned about.


  7. by myce on January 16, 2026 10:26 pm
    Aaaand you've lost grip on reality. Have fun on your trip.


  8. by HatetheSwamp on January 17, 2026 5:10 am

    "If a pro-lifer is genuinely pro-life, then I think their beliefs would be more consistent, ie. caring for mothers and all people as much as they care for unborn children."

    Here's where you are wrong: I'm pro-life and know many people who are also pro-life. We do care for mothers, et.al.. But, we also oppose mothers et.al. being cared for by your belovéd Big Brother.

    Are you aware that there's credible evidence of Big Brother in Minnesota being scammed for $9,000,000,000+ through those programs!!!!!?

    Hmmmm


  9. by myce on January 17, 2026 6:36 am
    You spoiled, dainty little princess snowflakes can't handle the truth that your daddy is a piece of shit.


  10. by oldedude on January 17, 2026 6:41 am
    myce- and I gave YOU the story that your story had been debunked around Christmas. This is what is called "hearsay" so there are no actual facts behind this. There are NO witnesses', no one that has ANY FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE that a crime was actually committed. I understand you are willing to believe stories without witnesses. THAT is why the story was dumped by DOJ. And that's coming from MY article, in the "evidence" (that isn't) you were trying to make me swallow hook, line, and sinker like you did.

    This was BEFORE you cited the debunked story. That's all. I thought I was pretty friendly with that. Had it been you, po, or concha that found it out, y'all would have played scorched earth with rudeness and name calling. Donna (generally) goes to the facts. I always re-read my posts and generally she's correct. Again, my thing is that I treat people like they treat me. It's really that easy.


  11. by oldedude on January 17, 2026 7:07 am
    I can attest to how families are taken care of. I've talked about one of my grandkids having autism. This kid is scary smart and in K5 was reading at a 2nd grade level, scoring 95% in math and 98% in reading (so he these two subjects better than better that kids his age. (the standard is 30% is considered "normal." The issue is about him still reasoning like a 5 year old even with the information he gets. Because of his diagnosis of being on the spectrum, there are a plethora of things he goes to that have government assistance. Another grandkid, has a speech development issue (which isn't uncommon with bi-lingual kids, and have it more pronounced with kids that speak english, and are learning another language with few commonalities (he is as fluent as any other five year olds in both Russian and English languages).

    Again, they have help with motor and cognitive skills until they get into school. My sister worked for the federal government with Headstart programs in her region. Generally, Headstart is for lower income kids to get them into the learning process to prepare them for 1. structured learning needed for K5. 2. Language skills (english) to prepare them to assimilate into school with everyone else. 3. Make sure the kids have proper meals to be able to learn (they provide breakfast and lunch).

    Is this enough? I don't know. In these cases, yes. And my view is that many kids slip through the cracks. Especially with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, being born addicted to meth or opioids, etc.

    I do agree with Lead. Those "day care" "businesses in MI are nothing but a scam to divert money to terrorists.


  12. by HatetheSwamp on January 17, 2026 7:27 am

    "You spoiled, dainty little princess snowflakes can't handle the truth that your daddy is a piece of shit."

    My dad's dead. But, the OrangeTurd is an OrangeTurd. And, I'm pretty sure that OD agrees with us on that.


  13. by oldedude on January 17, 2026 8:00 am
    I do, and I'm really hoping JD takes the helm the next election. Again, if the dims had someone I would agree with (they're getting further and further away), I would vote for them. And they're just bringing worse and worse folks. I've always wanted Condi to run. I respect her decision not to, but DANG she'd be good. She's secure enough with being a powerhouse, and at the same time she wouldn't be making the mistakes trumpster continually makes. And right now, the GOP bench is really deep. We're not scraping to see what shit floats.


  14. by myce on January 17, 2026 8:00 am
    Orangeturd stood on stage and accused Democrats of doing late term abortions and even killing the baby after birth. Y'all are eager to believe we are monsters, Sodom and Gemorahs. But if you pay attention to what Trump is saying during the debate while slandering Democrats, his description of infanticide lines up neatly with an unknown accuser in the Epstein files who says he was present when her baby was killed. All of the depravity that MAGAs like to blame on us, the pedophilia, the fraud, the authoritarianism, is all projection. Accusations from Republicans are confessions.


  15. by HatetheSwamp on January 17, 2026 8:37 am

    "Orangeturd stood on stage and accused Democrats of doing late term abortions and even killing the baby after birth."

    And, he was, essentially, speaking truth. Check out Ralph Northam.


  16. by HatetheSwamp on January 17, 2026 8:40 am

    "...if you pay attention to what Trump is saying during the debate while slandering Democrats."

    I have been clear. I think that Trump is despicable. I think OD holds a similar opinion.

    We don't lockstep. We both practice openness and inclusion, acceptance, tolerance, diversity, freethinking and love. You should give all of those a shot!


  17. by oldedude on January 17, 2026 9:06 am
    Did you ever actually look at their LAWS? You know those pesky things the congress sometimes do?

    Abortion is legal throughout pregnancy in these states. AND there is no ban or limit on abortion based on how far along in pregnancy you are. (thereby, you can be in the final stages of pregnancy, or giving birth at that time, and it is legal).[1] e.g. Abortion is legal throughout pregnancy in Oregon – there is no ban or limit on abortion in Oregon based on how far along in pregnancy you are.Abortion is legal throughout pregnancy in Oregon – there is no ban or limit on abortion in Oregon based on how far along in pregnancy you are.[2]
    OREGON
    NEW MEXICO
    COLORADO
    MINNESOTA
    DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
    MARYLAND
    VERMONT
    NEW JERSEY[1]
    fullerproject.org
    abortionfinder.org


  18. by oldedude on January 17, 2026 9:25 am
    One more definition; "Labor and delivery is a unique process to each woman. Labor is the process a woman’s body goes through in delivering her baby. Giving birth is the end of pregnancy when a baby (or babies) leaves the uterus." [1]

    So what's being said is that labor is part of gestation. In those states, abortion is legal throughout pregnancy (or gestation) in Those states.– there is no ban or limit on abortion in Oregon based on how far along in pregnancy you are.[2]
    eastdenver.coloradowomenshealth.com
    fullerproject.org


  19. by Indy! on January 17, 2026 9:48 am

    Nobody is impressed by your ability to google things, Odorous.


  20. by oldedude on January 17, 2026 9:51 am
    So why couldn't you make the same observations? And you're not smart enough to do that, and you wouldn't/ couldn't cite it anyway.


  21. by myce on January 17, 2026 11:21 am
    I hadn't seen some of the posts when I commented earlier. I have argued endlessly over abortion before and am not especially interested in doing that. As I said before, I think pro-life motives are generally more authoritarian than compassionate. Christians identify as sheep and the authoritarianism is baked into the religion. I find elective late term abortion to be abhorrent, but even worse is Big Brother robbing women of sovereignty over their own bodies and their own life-and-death choices for their own families. It is despicable and gross. Late term abortion is usually due to medical reasons: either the fetus is very sick or deformed or something is very wrong with the mother, like she has cancer and needs chemo or something like that. Infanticide is not legal in any state.

    Regarding the Epstein files, I am aware of how proof and evidence actually works. In the real world, victims of sex trafficking rarely get justice because people don't even believe them, victims may be too damaged to coherently explain what happened to them, or they're threatened and afraid, and the abuse is impossible to prove according to the standards of objective evidence.

    You may remember I have talked about the people I've met who were abused by organized crime. I encountered this reclusive community while I was studying psychology to try to figure out what was wrong with myself. Everyone here would call me “conspiracy theorist” if I talk about what I've learned about ritual abuse and mind control from these people. Satanists have a bad reputation in this community, especially the Grey Faction of the Satanic Temple who are in the business of discrediting victims and their therapists. If you read their web page, they will seem very reasonable because they are good at lying. The abusers and their supporters have immensely more power, money and propaganda than the victims.


  22. by oldedude on January 17, 2026 11:48 am
    Okay. Quickly on the abortion issue. The anti-abortion has been around since the European Inquisition. That was a "crime and affront to God" things. If a woman had one, they would be shunned by the church and town, if she wasn't killed. The Sodom and Gomorrah thing now days is a sincere belief regarding Adam and Eve, and the sins of those cities regarding same sex sex, and having sex with your children. So those have risen up to a fever pitch since the mid 1800's.

    I'm not a fan of any abortion. And in order to have a Republic, everyone has to give a little. Like you, third trimester is a nogo for me. The fetus has the ability to live outside of the womb. I believe that's murder. In modern medicine, they can look for anything that will put the child in danger in the first trimester.

    Epstein files. I disagree with you about the victims of the slave trade not being heard. Admittedly, that is new information that conservatives started to scream about. So, if you're thinking more than, say, three years out, you're correct. which is no big deal. It's a huge thing down here. Again. DOJ stated they had looked into the issue and found only an "unnamed source, etcetcetc. Sounds like someone wanted this to blow up against trumpster. Welcome to politics.


  23. by meagain on January 17, 2026 2:30 pm
    In the Western world, Christian, the question of abortion is only about 150 years old.
    "Abortion began to be widely considered wrong and severely punished throughout the West primarily during the mid-to-late 19th century. Before this period, abortion was generally legal and socially accepted in the US and Western Europe until "quickening"—the point at which the pregnant person feels fetal movement, usually around the 18th to 20th week of pregnancy.

    Canada no has the best approach. It has no laws against abortion. It is something to be decided between the woman and her doctors. About 40 years ago, the law criminalising it was struck down by the Supreme Court.


  24. by HatetheSwamp on January 17, 2026 2:48 pm

    "In the Western world, Christian, the question of abortion is only about 150 years old."

    So?


  25. by Navy2711 on January 17, 2026 3:28 pm

    So... it's important because American objections to abortion grew largely out of the evangelical movement, as a way to unite conservatives after overt sexism and racism became indefensible. Anti-abortion positions are a modern political backlash against women. They are not biblical.


  26. by HatetheSwamp on January 17, 2026 3:34 pm

    "So... it's important because American objections to abortion grew largely out of the evangelical movement."

    Don't think so. But, even if?, so what!


  27. by oldedude on January 17, 2026 4:24 pm
    Thoughout the Bible, we have references to the sanctity of human life. In Gensis 2:7, and Paul's letters in 1 Corinthians 15:45 in the New Testament. Life is sacred from conception (see Sanctity of life. Abortion is the destruction of a human being. The Bible states that the deliberate taking of an innocent human life breaks the sixth commandment: “You shall not murder”.6 Abortion at any stage of gestation is wrong.

    In Mishpatim, the Jewish word for Laws this sets out the earliest of Gods pact with the Jews in Hebrew for "laws"; the second word of the parashah) is the eighteenth weekly Torah portion in the annual Jewish cycle of Torah reading and the sixth in the Book of Exodus. The parashah sets out a series of laws, which some scholars call the Covenant Code. It reports the Israelites' acceptance of the covenant with God. In this are rules about honoring women withchild. Life is sacred from conception. Abortion is the destruction of a human being. The Bible states that the deliberate taking of an innocent human life breaks the sixth commandment: “You shall not murder”. Abortion at any stage of gestation is wrong.

    The life of a human being came more directly from God, and it is also evident that when someone dies, the breath or the life disappears and returns to the God who is rûaḥ.[Psalms 104: 29, Genesis 35:18] From here the earliest writings claim the the fetus is a human being however the child if formed, and to take the child's life is murder.

    So the is that John Calvin (The five pillars of Calvinist theory) spoke about this in the 1600's, saying the fetus was worth a human being from the moment of conception.

    So wrongagain, you're wrongagain.


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