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Time for a national divorce?

By Donna
October 24, 2021 6:01 pm
Category: Politics
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That was the subject of Bill Maher's New Rules Friday night. He's worried about our country becoming divided to the degree that it devolves into a situation that's much more serious than a disagreement. I think his advice is well intended, but that it won't be followed by either side.

I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts.


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Comments:

  1. by Curt_Anderson on October 24, 2021 6:52 pm
    Donna,
    As you can see I took the liberty of displaying your video.

    My feeling about Trumpers isn't so much hate as a profound lack of respect. I have the same attitude about them as I do about flat-earthers.

    Bill Maher said they aren't going to die. Well, some of them are dying of Covid. Some are lethargic long-haulers. Some are disenchanted and dispirited by family members dying of Covid.

    Trump has had some success in convincing people that elections are rigged and that voting is a waste of time. He's even told his supporters not to vote until the last election is "corrected". That will help but it's probably not enough to achieve what we want.

    What will help is the 75 year-old Trump himself dying. Trump's cult will have about the same staying power as the Branch Davidians and the People's Church. I don't believe that his followers have a strong allegiance to the GOP. Some of course will vote for Republicans, but a lot of them will drift toward third parties and some will not vote at all.





  2. by Donna on October 24, 2021 7:32 pm
    Thanks for posting the video. I noticed that it appeared a while after I posted it. I thought that the delay was due to a quirk in the software.

    I think that enough Republican voters are going to vote in 2022 to keep it close enough so that along with the extensive gerrymandering that has taken place in states like Texas, the Republicans will probably take control of the House. By 2024, if Trump isn't in prison (he probably won't be,) he'll convince his flock to forget what he said before and to go out and vote, and that with the changes in election laws that have been implemented in red states, Trump could win outright. And even if he comes up short, enough purple states that are controlled by Republican legislatures will overturn their state's election results and we'll have a Constitutional crisis. I have no idea whrte things will go after that.

    But that wasn't the subject of Bill Maher's New Rules.

    I don't think that any of the posters on this forum hate any of the other posters. What I do see is a few of us trying to reason with, as you said, a political flat earther and the flat earther interpreting those efforts as being talked down to and then failing to support his case with facts or logic... an observation that will no doubt be interpreted by him as me talking down to him.

    What's happening on this forum is a microcosm of what's happening nationally, and I think it's unfixable.


  3. by Curt_Anderson on October 24, 2021 7:57 pm
    What did you think of Tucson?


  4. by Donna on October 24, 2021 8:23 pm
    We'll be here all week. I'm waiting for takeout at Mexican restaurant now. From what we've seen, we love it. Very clean and scenic. And rent will probably be $800 cheaper than in Long Beach, so we'll be able to enjoy a real retirement here. Plus, Sheri's older brother told her yesterday that he and his wife hate Texas and were also thinking about at moving to Tucson.


  5. by HatetheSwamp on October 25, 2021 5:34 am

    What I think you two don't get is the degree to which Trump gave a voice to the many million in America who, well, hate the Swamp.

    When I say that I despise Trump and that I think he's despicable, I'm being perfectly sincere.

    I have always voted against him until the alternative was the very essence of the incarnation of the Swamp. If Trump runs again, I'll do the same. Swamp hate ain't going away, even if Trump would.

    I don't think you two realize how disgusting what you believe in, and vote for, is to many millions.

    Trump is a grifter. But, despite your belief, Curt, that you know what Swamp haters want, Trump delivered for them and they'll be enthusiastic in 022 and 024.

    But, c'mon man! You voted for a corrupt political culture in the person on "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap." Don't think, for a moment that people who voted for Trump are defective in any way.

    You don't have the right.


  6. by islander on October 25, 2021 5:39 am

    I wish I could be a little more optimistic about the future of the country but what Iíve seen taking place in recent years has really shaken my faith in people as a whole. Maybe it has always been like this (and deep down I know it probably has and at times maybe even worse) but I think I was able to block most of that out to the point that I was living in a kind of naÔve fantasy world of my own making.

    What has shaken me most hasnít been that there are people like Trump, cult leaders, and tin horn authoritarian dictators in this world, but I never would have believed for one moment that such a huge number of people would or could actually support them. I truly believed, "It couldn't happen here".

    With some members of my own family it seems as if Iím seeing them, the real them, for he first time and they are not who I had always thought they were, and I donít know how to respond. It is extremely disillusioning and depressing to think that I could have been so mistaken about them and I fear that they represent in so many ways perhaps the majority of people? I'm beginning to think, like Donna said, it's probably not fixable. This is the first time I've ever felt like this.



  7. by HatetheSwamp on October 25, 2021 6:35 am

    What has shaken me most hasnít been that there are people like Trump, cult leaders, and tin horn authoritarian dictators in this world, but I never would have believed for one moment that such a huge number of people would or could actually support them.

    This coming from a guy who voted for a feeble, demented old man who defines the very concept of the"empty suit!"

    Gotta say, isle. I don't UNDERSTAND you.


  8. by Donna on October 25, 2021 6:46 am
    Tell me, Hts (I won't call you Hate anymore; actually I'd like to call you by your real name) what exactly is it that Trump voters want and expect Trump to deliver? No voters like corruption (which is what I mean by The Swamp) which is rampant in both parties, so I get their dislike and distrust of government, but to me it has always seemed antithetical to pick Trump of all people as the leader who's going to turn all of that around. And btw, I'm pretty disgusted by much of woke-ism too.

    Islander- My supervisor at work is going through the same thing you are. I come from a Republican family, and one of my brothers is as right-wing as you can imagine, although I doubt he's a Trump fan. I would guess that he votes like Hts. So I'm not as shocked as you are about what's happening.


  9. by Donna on October 25, 2021 6:55 am
    Hts- As for your latest comment to Islander, come on man. I'm guessing that Biden wasn't Islander's first choice, just like Trump wasn't your first choice. In reality, you vote just like we do. You'll vote for a "dispicable" Republican just to keep the Democrat out, and we'll vote for a Democrat we don't like just to keep the Republican out.


  10. by islander on October 25, 2021 8:26 am

    Donna, youíre right, Biden wasnít my first choice but I didnít despise him or see him as a despicable human being. If I did see him as such, I could never and would never have voted for him. However in my lifetime Iíve never seen a presidential candidate including Nixon (whom I supported at first) that was such a dishonorable and corrupt human being totally unfit to sit in the Oval Office as Trump.

    Iím not under the illusion that politicians are all doing the best they can in the to serve our country but Iím also not so cynical as to think that there is no difference between individual politicians or parties, or that one party or politician is no better than the other.

    I think one of the things that would be extremely helpful in enabling us to choose the candidate that we feel would be most likely to do the job we expect, would be ranked choice voting which we had here in Maine for the first time in this past Presidential election. I was able to vote for my first choice and when he didnít make it, my second choice (Biden), thankfully, did win. I never had to throw away my vote.




  11. by HatetheSwamp on October 25, 2021 12:02 pm

    The thing is, Donna, and I made this point numerous times before you voted. You didn't need to vote for "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap." The last time I checked, the ex 18 wheeler driver won in California by more than 2 to 1. You could have cast a meaningful symbolic vote. And, the way Maine works, I'm pretty sure isle could have too.

    By the way, feel free to call me by my real life name. However, many people who know me know me as pb, which is my nickname.


  12. by Donna on October 25, 2021 1:54 pm
    Symbolic votes are only meaningful to the person who cast the vote.


  13. by HatetheSwamp on October 25, 2021 2:10 pm

    Well, if, say, 5%, or 3 or even 2 would have voted for a nonSwamp progressive, a message would have been sent to the Swamp. And, you could have slept at peace.

    You have control of your vote. The smoke filled room handlers of yada yada yada...


  14. by Donna on October 26, 2021 12:46 pm
    I don't think "the swamp" would have given a rat's ass about 2, 3 or 5% of voters who were trying send a message to them by voting for a third party candidate. When has there ever been an example of a major party changing its platform because a small minority of voters voted for a third party candidate?


  15. by HatetheSwamp on October 26, 2021 1:06 pm

    Perhaps, but I can't see how voting so unnecessarily for a candidate who incarnates the evils of the Swamp helps anything.


  16. by Donna on October 26, 2021 5:44 pm
    I didn't know anything about Howie Hawkins, and I wanted Trump to lose by as many votes as possible.




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