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Hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops have not yet complied with vaccine mandate as deadlines near

By HatetheSwamp
October 10, 2021 9:12 am
Category: Health

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Hundreds of thousands of U.S. service members remain unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated against the coronavirus as the Pentagon's first compliance deadlines near, with lopsided rates across the individual services and a spike in deaths among military reservists illustrating how political division over the shots has seeped into a nonpartisan force with unambiguous orders.

This is how the members of the military say,"F*** Joe Biden."

No one, bar wacked out Swampcult Blue MAGAs think "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap," is a leader.

Cited and related links:

washingtonpost.com

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Comments on "Hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops have not yet complied with vaccine mandate as deadlines near":

by Curt_Anderson on October 10, 2021 9:31 am
Since George Washington was a general, our military has been obligated to get all sorts of vaccinations. If they aren't vaccinated now, they will be or else face military justice consequences. The WaPo didn't mention the Space Force. What's their vaccination rate?
by HatetheSwamp on October 10, 2021 10:11 am

It's a question how the Commander in Chief will deal with so high a level of insubordination, if this continues.
by Curt_Anderson on October 10, 2021 12:57 pm
There is a long chain of command between the insubordinate personnel and the Commander-in-chief. It won't be anything that Biden will need to deal with.
by HatetheSwamp on October 10, 2021 1:21 pm

Need to?

I dunno, Curt. If it comes to discipling 200,000+ troops? That's not mundane.
by Elmer on October 10, 2021 2:17 pm
Hate:

I'm confused. I thought I saw elsewhere that you said you were vaccinated, which implies you see the benefits in being vaccinated, and that in your view those benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

For months, those who support vaccines have tried to persuade others to get them, with middling success. Vaccines are safe, effective and free, and they're our best path to putting this pandemic behind us, saving thousands of lives and getting back to normal.

If you're sincere, why aren't you out trying to encourage others to get vaccinated rather than sitting at your keyboard being a cheerleader for failure?
by HatetheSwamp on October 10, 2021 3:04 pm

I am fully vaccinated but I understand that the US has a Bill of Rights which preserves its citizens from government intrusion.

I hope everyone will be vaxxed but I acknowledge the freedom of all Americans.
by Elmer on October 10, 2021 3:38 pm
Hate:

Yes, the U.S. has a Bill of Rights. The U.S. also has a Supreme Court, which is mentioned in the same Constitution that lists the Bill of Rights. And that Supreme Court has determined that vaccine requirements are constitutional.

Do you also oppose requirements for polio, measles, smallpox and other vaccines? These all have been upheld by the courts.

BTW, George Washington, who presided over the Constitutional Convention, required that soldiers be vaccinated. I do not see any evidence that Washington thought vaccine requirements were unconstitutional.

Your argument that the Bill of Rights protects against vaccine mandates has no basis in law or history.
by Donna on October 10, 2021 3:44 pm
There was no such thing as a vaccine when George Washington was president.
by Donna on October 10, 2021 3:55 pm
I'm sorry - you're right! I just learned something.

I'm guessing that Hate has a problem with imposing such a mandate on private businesses.
by Elmer on October 10, 2021 3:58 pm
They had inoculations, which are similar to vaccines. If Washington ordered inoculations, it's unlikely he would have objected to vaccines.
by Elmer on October 10, 2021 4:03 pm
I'm guessing that Hate has a problem with imposing such a mandate on private businesses -- Donna

The origin of this post is about vaccinating troops, not private business. Hate seems to revel in the difficulties we are having getting individuals in this public entity vaccinated. I find his glee inconsistent with someone who claims to think vaccines have value.
by Donna on October 10, 2021 6:04 pm
Most of his posts are designed to rile up liberals and progressives. That he is often contradictory or just plain incorrect seems to be of no concern to him. It's a mistake to take him seriously.
by HatetheSwamp on October 11, 2021 4:39 am

Elmer,

Hate, aka pb, wishes everyone would receive the vaccine but he thinks that supporting the liberty of every citizen is far more important.
by islander on October 11, 2021 5:56 am

Elmer,
Hate says that he ”wishes everyone would receive the vaccine but he [Hate] thinks that supporting the liberty of every citizen is far more important.”

I support the liberty of every citizen just as I would imagine you and everyone here does. You’ll find, however, that unfortunately, Hate, among other things, often revels in the use of the logical fallacy of the False Dilemma to support his positions as he is doing here. We all know (including Hate) that supporting the liberty of every citizen does not mean supporting unqualified liberty. Supporting vaccine mandates in the midst of a deadly pandemic is no more an assault on our individual liberty than is supporting a law that prevents parents from withholding an emergency lifesaving procedure from their child based on the parent’s religious beliefs, unless of course, one is arguing in favor of complete and unqualified “liberty”.
by Elmer on October 11, 2021 8:30 am

Hate, aka pb, wishes everyone would receive the vaccine but he thinks that supporting the liberty of every citizen is far more important.

We have established that George Washington required his soldiers to be vaccinated (or inoculated).

We have established the George Washington presided over the meetings that drafted the U.S. Constitution.

We can therefore observe that George Washington believed inoculation/vaccine requirements were consistent with liberty and the Constitution.

You keep referring to liberty. Are you telling me that you know more about liberty than George Washington?
by HatetheSwamp on October 11, 2021 10:01 am

Elmer,

I'm not certain that Washington is to the US as Jesus is to Christianity. That being said, the issue isn't whether or not I think members of the military should be vaxxed, it's that hundreds of thousands of them ain't and that their insubordination to Joe's mandate is a vivid commentary on their lack of loyalty to and respect for their commander in chief...who is "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap."

Hundreds of thousands!
by Donna on October 11, 2021 10:35 am
Military personnel are the most vaccinated demographic in America. And all vaccines have some, albeit a remote risk of complications. Why do you suppose that many of them are refusing this particular vaccine? Doesn't make sense.
by HatetheSwamp on October 11, 2021 10:59 am

I only know a few antivax people personally and none are military personnel.

Of course, many unvaccinated people are people of color who have obvious reasons to mistrust the US government.

The people I know who are antivax are cynical about the government and don't trust anything the government does. They think that the government is the last institution to know what is good for them.

What's interesting about military personnel is that they have volunteered to fight for the country. My guess is that their loyalty is to the idea of the US as a nation. Their loyalty is not to this government.
by Donna on October 11, 2021 11:04 am
My guess is that they watch Fox News.
by Curt_Anderson on October 11, 2021 11:16 am
Donna,
It's sacrilegious for me to say it, but the people in our military are not the "best and the brightest". They are as susceptible to misinformation as much or more than general public. They are also prone to the "herd mentality" that called for in a debate with Biden. So if their peers are vaccine reluctant, they are too.

Incidentally, the vaccination rate for Black Americans has been increasing and the difference between White and Black vaccination rates has narrowed.
kff.org
by Elmer on October 11, 2021 11:16 am
HatetheSwamp wrote:

I'm not certain that Washington is to the US as Jesus is to Christianity. That being said, the issue isn't whether or not I think members of the military should be vaxxed, it's that hundreds of thousands of them ain't and that their insubordination to Joe's mandate is a vivid commentary on their lack of loyalty to and respect for their commander in chief...who is "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap."

Our society and form of government depend on sincere fact-based dialog. I'm trying to see if there are any facts informing your opinion.

You are correct that Washington is not to the U.S. what Jesus is to Christianity. Precious little was written about Jesus while he was still alive, and everything in the Christian bible that refers to him was written decades after the events described. As such, it's difficult to separate fact from fiction.

Washington's life, however, was well-documented by his contemporaries. We can be certain that he supported inoculations, we can be certain that he presided over the Constitutional Convention, we can be certain he was admired by his contemporaries. I am not aware of any controversies or criticism he received at the convention or in the Federalist Papers for his stance on inoculations. He was later unanimously elected president of the United States, which appears to be validation of his character, his views and his leadership.

You made the claim that vaccine mandates are inconsistent with the concept of liberty and the written law contained in the Bill of Rights. I have not seen any facts or evidence to suggest that. If you are going to make that claim, please support it with facts.

Do you want to have a sincere conversation that we can both learn from, or are you only here to proffer insults?
by HatetheSwamp on October 11, 2021 2:21 pm

You are correct that Washington is not to the U.S. what Jesus is to Christianity. Precious little was written about Jesus while he was still alive, and everything in the Christian bible that refers to him was written decades after the events described. As such, it's difficult to separate fact from fiction.

Nothing was written about Jesus while He was still alive.

You're wrong, though, about what is in the Bible that refers to him come long after.

You are correct that the earliest "Gospels" were written at least a few decades after the events, but even scholars at Ivy League universities and Oxford and Cambridge and places where the brainiest, best informed people live and teach and write agree that many biblical Christian letters were written extremely early and are well preserved.

It's not difficult at all to separate fact from fiction.

You made the claim that vaccine mandates are inconsistent with the concept of liberty and the written law contained in the Bill of Rights. I have not seen any facts or evidence to suggest that. If you are going to make that claim, please support it with facts.

Fine.

That clearly is your opinion.

I'm not making that argument. What I am saying is that the reality is that, mandates notwithstanding, millions of Americans scoff at Joe Biden and mock him and laugh at him and openly and blatantly ignore his mandates...to the point that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of his own troops are defying him.

I am sympathetic with their claims of liberty and ownership of their bodies.

Many share the opinion that Joe is a "feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap."
by Elmer on October 12, 2021 2:46 pm

That clearly is your opinion.

Not only is it my opinion, it is an opinion based on facts. You do not seem to have an opinion based on facts.

I'm not making that argument. What I am saying is that the reality is that, mandates notwithstanding, millions of Americans scoff at Joe Biden and mock him and laugh at him and openly and blatantly ignore his mandates...to the point that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of his own troops are defying him.

According to the article you linked to, the overwhelming majority of troops in active service have been vaccinated (Navy 90%, Army 81%, Air Force 80%, Marines 76%). If you're making the dubious assumption that those who are not yet vaccinated oppose Biden, I guess the corollary is that large majorities support him.

But leadership isn't a popularity contest. Sometimes, you just have to do the right thing even when it's not popular. Like when Truman integrated the military in 1948. Most active troops opposed the move, but Truman had the courage to do the right thing. I'm glad Biden also had the courage to do the right thing.

I am sympathetic with their claims of liberty and ownership of their bodies.

So now that you're pro-choice, you're going to support a pregnant woman's ownership of her body?
by HatetheSwamp on October 12, 2021 3:46 pm

Her own body, absolutely. But not a pre-borm baby's body.
by Curt_Anderson on October 12, 2021 3:55 pm
Hts,
So to clarify, you care about the body of a fetus, but not the bodies of post-born babies and former babies who the unvaccinated are able to surreptitiously infect with a dangerous and often deadly disease.

That just doesn't seem consistent with a pro-life philosophy.
by Donna on October 13, 2021 8:50 am
It's consistent with conservativism, though.
by HatetheSwamp on October 13, 2021 10:29 am

So to clarify, you care about the body of a fetus, but not the bodies of post-born babies and former babies who the unvaccinated are able to surreptitiously infect with a dangerous and often deadly disease.

Me?

I've said many times that I hope everyone gets vaxxed

by Curt_Anderson on October 13, 2021 10:56 am
HtS,
I hope that every mother delivers a healthy baby into a loving home, but I am still pro-choice.

I hope that everybody who can be vaccinated is vaccinated to protect others who can't be vaccinated and to protect the vaccinated who are still vulnerable to breakthrough cases of Covid.

When it comes to pregnant women, you are no-choice. When it comes to preventable highly contagious diseases, you are pro-choice.
by Ponderer on October 14, 2021 9:19 am

Many years ago we were at a family reunion and one of my sisters oldest friends and her husband were there too. He was active duty in the Marines and had just gotten back from Iraq. He told us about this experimental drug they were forcing all the active duty service members in theater to take. It was to ward off the effects of nerve gas or some such if they were exposed to it. He said it was making a lot of the guys really sick. But it didn't matter. He was not allowed to refuse and he had to take it. They had no choice in the matter at all.

He said that your body belongs to the military. He knew a guy that got in shit-tons of trouble for getting a bad sunburn on his off-time because it kept him from being at peak performance. They look at it as if your body is their property and you have damaged it, he said.

I guess things have changed a lot in the military if any service member can refuse to get a vaccine against a virulent disease that could sideline a whole platoon if left to its own devices from some who abstain from getting it.

by Curt_Anderson on October 14, 2021 9:50 am
As I suggested in the first comment above, the military personnel will be vaccinated.

This just appeared in Voice Of America:
"According to data on active-duty troops obtained Wednesday by VOA, 91% of the Army, 99% of the Navy, 96% of the Air Force and Space Force, and 91% of the Marine Corps are fully or partially vaccinated."

If HtS's hypothesis is correct that a lack of vaccinations would demonstrate the military's lack of respect for Biden, then the corollary is also true: A 90-plus percent vaccination rate demonstrates the military's overwhelming respect for Biden.

voanews.com

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