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Law selectors, pages, etc.
Trump wins on Immunity... for the most part
By HatetheSwamp
July 1, 2024 9:51 am
Category: Law

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I ain't a legal eagle. Yet,...

This is pretty much what I expected, not because I once clerked at the Supreme Court and now teach at an Ivy League law school (wink wink),...

...but because the Court scheduled the announcement of the decision all the way into July.

They wanted to be able to get their butts the h£ck out of town.

They knew that the metaphorical po would be seriously p¡$$£d off!


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Comments on "Trump wins on Immunity... for the most part":

  1. by oldedude on July 1, 2024 10:27 am
    I haven't reviewed the decision, and what I've heard is the most radical on both sides have been eliminated from a "right." The rest has to be shown in court. My view is that this is about as "nailed down" as it's going to get. Trumpster isn't going to get all he wants. The dims aren't going to get all they want. Okay.

    I think there are many, many times a president is going to ask an advisor, analyst, etc what they think. That needs to be between them. Classified meetings. Leave classified. So my thoughts on what needs to be covered by the immunity is pretty narrow. It needs to be available, and there needs to be some rules.


  2. by HatetheSwamp on July 1, 2024 10:43 am

    What I think p¡$$£$ po, metaphorical and literal, is that the likelihood that Trump will be found guilty in the J6 Stalin Show Trial BEFORE THE ELECTION is diminished.

    If the SwampDems had only brought the DC and Florida Show Trial charges a year earlier, the verdicts would probably have come in during the spring or about now. As po made clear in the Fourteenth Amendment keep Trump off the ballot scheme, they don't believe in due process... especially for non white wokesters. And, they failed to take into account that Trump would receive due process.

    Big mistake. Big, big mistake.


  3. by Indy! on July 1, 2024 10:58 am

    Comical. The board law experts think it's Ds vs Rs when the credibility of the American judicial system is the one hanging in the balance.


  4. by HatetheSwamp on July 1, 2024 11:56 am

    Here's Lawrence Tribe on MSNBC on the immunity decision.

    Does anyone who's a white woke electric limousine lovin Swampcult progressive realize that, if Trump wins in November, his AG could charge that "dithering and diminished" "feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap" with numerous crimes? And, The ONE, too?


  5. by Curt_Anderson on July 1, 2024 11:58 am
    The majority has attempted to distinguish between official and unofficial presidential actions. Illegal actions in a president's capacity as a candidate are not immune from prosecution. Apparently what would normally be considered illegal actions if done as a president are immune.

    If any of us made a speech in front of the White House and riled up a crowd "to take back our country" and to storm the Capitol we'd be charged with a inciting a riot. It seems the conservative justices give Trump as pass on that.

    This is great news for Democrats now that Joe Biden can with an executive order direct Seal Team Six to take out Trump.


  6. by oldedude on July 1, 2024 12:23 pm
    I'm not sure where you got the SEAL Team VI thing. They don't have the ability to do anything to US Citizens in our territory.


  7. by HatetheSwamp on July 1, 2024 12:23 pm

    If any of us made a speech in front of the White House and riled up a crowd "to take back our country" and to storm the Capitol we'd be charged with a inciting a riot.

    "Storm the Capitol?" Link to that. Unlike you, pb watched the speech. Trump did say, "peacefully and patriotically."

    Actually, Curt, given who the judge is... and the jury pool, I think Trump will, in time, be found guilty.

    However, probably not before November 5...

    ... and not in a way that would survive appeal.

    But, face it. Trump's already a felon, convicted 34 times over. Joe said that at the debate... and Trump's pulling away.

    What pb said earlier: Maybe... if the Dems
    had filed these charges a year earlier, due justice would have run its course and by now, or about now respectable verdicts would be in play...

    Maybe.


  8. by HatetheSwamp on July 1, 2024 12:36 pm

    'Trump Will Imprison His Political Opponents!’ Says Guy Imprisoning His Political Opponents"

    Bingo

    babylonbee.com


  9. by Curt_Anderson on July 1, 2024 12:52 pm
    "We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore," Trump said.

    Trump also said, "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

    Does one statement negate the other? And if so, which one? The reality is that some in the crowd heard one message and did not hear or ignored the other.

    But even if we take Trump's more benign statement as his real intent, he's basically instructing the mob to disrupt a perfunctory and ceremonial congressional procedure. There have been a lot of "peaceful protests" recently that have shut down universities and even street traffic.




  10. by HatetheSwamp on July 1, 2024 1:55 pm

    I missed the "storm the Capitol" part.

    But, as I noted, with this judge and jury pool, Trump can convicted but it's not likely before November 5 and, very unlikely to survive appeal.

    If you're still dreaming that lawfare is going to win the day?, dream another dream.


  11. by Curt_Anderson on July 1, 2024 2:20 pm
    HtS,
    Notice I did not put quotes around "the storm the Capitol". I wasn't attributing that to Trump or anybody else. I said WE could not say that without be arrested. But from what I understand of today's ruling, a US president could say it in his/her "official" conduct as president.

    “Whether the tweets, that speech and Trump’s other communications on Jan. 6 involve official conduct may depend on the content and context of each,” Chief Justice Roberts wrote. That doesn't seem to offer much guidance to the judges in lower courts.


  12. by HatetheSwamp on July 1, 2024 2:25 pm

    But from what I understand of today's ruling, a US president could say it in his/her "official" conduct as president.

    That's the part of this I'm not sure of. It's extremely possible that we will find out.


  13. by oldedude on July 1, 2024 7:58 pm
    My thought is that what Judge Roberts was talking about in the case. Are they going to do it now? Not the conservative judges. They'll shoot it down to a lower court where it belongs.

    Many folks think that when a case is won or lost, that's the end of the case. Not so much in the US. and not so in constitutional comparison laws.

    My bet is there will be a bunch of other cases that hit the SCOTUS in the next 20-30 years. We'll figure out how this goes, and it will be back and forth. Is it fast? no. I pretty much actually agree with SCOTUS. If it has to do with talking to people where they are giving you information and guidance, that's good and should be protected. The end result may not be, but the PROCESS of how you reach the decision, like a lawyer, should be protected.

    Does murdering your political opponent by SEAL Team VI come into this?
    How about WTF? It makes no sense. so just deal with that as a stupid idea. If it happens, walk away and consider the US gone off the face of the earth. You'd better have food, guns, and ammo (and booze, and Drugs to sell).


  14. by Curt_Anderson on July 1, 2024 9:42 pm
    Did you consider it legal for the Obama to order Seal Team Six take out Osama bin Laden? Would it be legal for Biden to order Seal Team Six to take out Putin or Kim Jong Un? Either of those actions could arguably seen as "official" actions by the President. What if candidate Trump happened to be visiting Putin or Kim at the time? Would Biden's official presidential action be immune from prosecution if both the enemy nation's leader and Trump were killed?

    It's interesting, amusing really, that House Republicans have made noise about impeaching Biden for the chaotic departure from Afghanistan, issues about the southern border and other complaints that I am forgetting to list. Well, I never thought those efforts would go anywhere, and with this immunity ruling, the GOP can really forget about it.


  15. by HatetheSwamp on July 2, 2024 2:56 am

    Did you consider it legal for the Obama to order Seal Team Six take out Osama bin Laden? Would it be legal for Biden to order Seal Team Six to take out Putin or Kim Jong Un?

    Legal? Huh?!!!!! Covered by Presidential immunity? Yes. See the Bill Barr video. Hedabomb. He'd be a pb Legal Goober if he spoke more often. See video.

    It's interesting, amusing really, that House Republicans have made noise about impeaching Biden for the chaotic departure from Afghanistan...

    Noop, nuh uh. Ab$olute bull$#¡t.
    View Video


  16. by oldedude on July 2, 2024 3:37 am
    Did you consider it legal for the Obama to order Seal Team Six take out Osama bin Laden? Would it be legal for Biden to order Seal Team Six to take out Putin or Kim Jong Un? Either of those actions could arguably seen as "official" actions by the President.

    I'll agree with those cases. The issue is that you either don't understand, or know that being at war with someone, the President still requires notice of the heads of the leadership in the house and senate. With Vlad and Kim Jong Un, it requires agreement (v. "notice") for a president to do that. Murdering a US citizen within the confines of the country is a whole different story about what has to be done. As is stands now (different than the pedojoe legal warfare), it's a far stretch to do that. Do you have charges they have been found guilty of (in a court, not just in someone's little mind). Without a doubt, that would be considered "outside the bounds of the president's normal duties).

    So this completely fictional account is stupid to bring up. There are way too many things prohibiting the "president" from doing such a thing. I think it was stupid for the SCOTUS membership to even bring that up, and irresponsible.


  17. by HatetheSwamp on July 2, 2024 4:48 am

    Chief Justice Roberts is the perfect Justice on this Court to tackle this very serious question. I'm not a former Supreme Court clerk, like Curt and po, and, of course, there will be future cases that will test the wisdom of the decision,... just as Dobbs refined Roe.

    But, IMO, this is an adequate place to start, at the very least...

    Dem politicking notwithstanding.

    Bottom line: Joe's claim that he "beat Medicare" and that "women are being raped... by their sisters" and immigration and inflation spell doom for Biden's re-election.


  18. by oldedude on July 2, 2024 6:39 am
    I think this starts the conversation, which is good. It can be honed as we go.


  19. by HatetheSwamp on July 2, 2024 8:14 am

    Same with Dobbs and Roe. Same with the (Kennedy) praying football coach/Louisiana Ten Commandments poster law.

    The times are changing. po and Curt and Indy wanting Big Brother government is passé. The Court is backing away from federal government oppression of individual liberty.

    This immunity thing, IMO, anticipates the Dems' strategy of governing through lawfare. The Roberts Court stands for freedom and the future


  20. by Indy! on July 2, 2024 11:46 am

    You obviously can't even speak for yourself, PB - don't try to speak for your betters.


  21. by oldedude on July 2, 2024 8:47 pm
    I think the lawfare is a great distinguishing mark between the olde and new style of Politics (democracy be damned!).


  22. by Indy! on July 3, 2024 1:05 am

    It’s kabuki thater for the stupid. How about doing what we pay them to do?


  23. by oldedude on July 3, 2024 5:03 am
    Same with Dobbs and Roe.
    Even Ginsberg of all people said Roe was a bad reading. Dobbs just corrected that. Yes, different states have different "interpretations" of what they want. The do the same thing with 2A, and even with 1A issues. The states have that right. That's the way our federalist system is built.

    This immunity thing, IMO, anticipates the Dems' strategy of governing through lawfare. The Roberts Court stands for freedom and the future

    I think the whining in this is from people that refuse to understand or actually look at the decision.

    It doesn't say that things out of the scope of what a President does is closed off to scrutiny, and even things that are required (war powers act, etc) they be held accountable. I see this as a way trumpster may be more accountable for j6, depending on how the courts read what is legal or not. He'll fight it of course, but the facts remain that if THE COURT doesn't agree with him, then it may be harder for him to argue the point. Of course, at the same time, it may also hold pedojoe accountable.

    And, in the day to day and exceptional decisions presidents make in closed meeting say, with the JCS, those aren't considered releasable in court. I agree with that, assuming the meeting is say, regarding Iranian missiles in the Gulf of Hormuz, or intel and options retaliation for killing our military members.


  24. by HatetheSwamp on July 3, 2024 5:31 am

    Even Ginsberg of all people said Roe was a bad reading. Dobbs just corrected that.

    Thing is, the progressive crowd knew that RBG was right but they chose to pretend that Roe was Holy Writ... and, now they're paying the price.

    Trump’s gunna win and, in Trump’s fourth year, Thomas can retire and Thomas 2.0 can replace him... one who's in his/her/their early 40s, baha.


  25. by oldedude on July 3, 2024 9:15 am
    Lead- Yeah, and even with evidence, they refuse to believe she would ever say such a thing. And yet, here we are.

    I had a really good teacher in high school. A one-armed guy that actually shingled his own roof. What a stud! He got me interested in government. This was the early 1970's and his point (he said) was to teach us the basics that a very small percentage of US citizens actually understand. His view (and mine now) is that to graduate HS, you needed to be able to pass the US Citizenship test. He was really good at the federalism part. And how many people expect the federal government to do much more than what is constitutionally available to them. That got me into government and law for the rest of my days.


  26. by Indy! on July 3, 2024 11:28 am

    RBG was actually very conservative - especially at the end. The fact she stayed on the Court to make sure a conservative took her place supports that idea.


  27. by oldedude on July 3, 2024 2:44 pm
    Lead- Update on me and my hip. After the surgical amputation and reattachment, things have been progressing. They used a CAT Scan, AI, and a radar computer program to make sure the hip went in at the correct angle and had the correct amount pressure in the femur (there are a lot of breaks in the femurs because these are usually done on old people (go figgur). It's called a MAKO system. Anyway, on my fifth week, I'm about 80-90% off my cane. I was driving on day 11, so everything is going well.


  28. by Indy! on July 3, 2024 3:34 pm

    That explains why you've been crotchety lately. How do you explain the rest of your life? 🤔


  29. by oldedude on July 3, 2024 8:32 pm
    Actually, I've been happy with the results, and my pain levels are 1/3 of what they were expected to be. But you didn't read shit over what I sent, so there's that. You're choosing NOT to read is always a premise to a lack of communication to what is usually sent. That's why I don't put anything above a 1st grade level. You can't read the rest.


  30. by Indy! on July 4, 2024 9:50 am

    Sorry, didn't have the time to waste on that one.


  31. by oldedude on July 4, 2024 10:28 am
    And having to deal with narcissistic a--holes like yourself.


  32. by Indy! on July 4, 2024 2:50 pm

    You love me. That's why you continually come back.



  33. by Curt_Anderson on July 4, 2024 9:31 pm
    OD,
    I am glad to hear your hip replacement surgery recuperation is going well so far, and I hope it continues. My late mother had a hip replaced about 20 or 25 years ago. She was happy with it, but I would have been more critical had it been me. She wound up with one leg being shorter than the other. It necessitated that she wore a built-up orthopedic shoe with a sole at least an extra inch thick.


  34. by Donna on July 5, 2024 7:58 am

    I didn't know about your hip replacement, od. I hope it alleviates whatever discomfort and pain you were experiencing. I experience occasional pain in my right hip. Sometimes I feel it when I make a left-hand turn in my car.


  35. by oldedude on July 5, 2024 8:37 am
    Curt- That's why I paid for the surgery I did. I was about 17mm off on one side. The computer actually adjusted the replacement (along with a lot of other stuff it was able to do). Still have a super ugly scar, but if that's all, I'm good to go.

    Donna. I had two issues that compounded my hip. My sacrum is almost overgrown with arthritis. So as the sacrum was getting worse, it was tearing away the hip joint. I've been bone to bone for the last couple of years. I feel sooooo much better now. Within the next month, the back should be fixed also.

    Also, I know po has back issues. They've done a lot with back pain management. If your doc is still doing steroid injections, run away! The technology is much better than that now, AND I'm sure you can find a good doc where you are.


  36. by Indy! on July 5, 2024 7:09 pm

    Pilates. Works wonders on back pain.


  37. by oldedude on July 6, 2024 8:46 pm
    But not on Sacral Osteoarthritis, which was my issue. Yoga, PT, Pilates, and other muscle workouts may delay the issue, with diminishing results. Once it has diminished to a point, it actually hurts the sacrum, pelvic region, and the hip. Once the hip joint is bone on bone (meaning without any Cartlidge), what it does is actually produce an odd-shaped insertion of the hip joint (like mine did, it was egged shaped). Thusly my pain. I was bone on bone for over two years, and just kept grinding my pelvis out in an odd shape and producing a shorter leg.

    I figure I'll have al the surgeries I need done by the election, when the left starts rioting again and burning buildings.


  38. by Indy! on July 6, 2024 8:50 pm

    True. You're not fixing anything with pilates, you're strengthening the muscles around the problem(s) to relieve them. I threw my back out the first week in June - first time in 7 years (since starting pilates) that it lasted for more than one or two days. About day 4, I was getting worried.


  39. by oldedude on July 6, 2024 8:54 pm
    And like I said. Osteoarthritis does not respond to that. Once the return is so diminished, it is counterproductive to do it.


  40. by Ponderer on July 10, 2024 9:44 am

    I suspect that a great deal of Christians in America believe that he is immune from God's laws also, by all appearances.



  41. by HatetheSwamp on July 10, 2024 10:06 am

    You and your EFFINobsession with blending church and state!


  42. by Ponderer on July 10, 2024 10:20 am

    Not blending anything. Merely making observations and reaching conclusions based on them is all.


  43. by Indy! on July 10, 2024 10:30 am

    Great cartoon, Pondy. The peebs and OD caricatures are dead on.


  44. by HatetheSwamp on July 10, 2024 10:31 am

    When will you admit that all of us, you especially, have preferences and prejudices that we bring with us to every moment of our lives.

    Your preferences and prejudices appear to be significantly connected to hate of and for traditional religion... and religious people.


  45. by Ponderer on July 10, 2024 10:54 am

    I don't hate Christianity. I have nothing but complete respect for the Christian religion. I have even said before that out of all of the religions out there, I think Christianity is at least one of the best. Far from hating the Christian religion, I believe that it has a lot of useful advice and philosophy to offer people with.

    It's a great many "Christians", for the way they have of distorting and contorting that religion into a theocratic blueprint to attack and condemn others that Jesus Himself wouldn't even recognize, that I hate. Christians who constantly wipe their asses with the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes the moment they want to stray from its precepts for some political or personal gain reasons.

    I believe that such people make Jesus barf His sacred guts out.




  46. by Ponderer on July 10, 2024 10:56 am



    Christianity is wonderful.

    Too bad so few Christians ever practice it.





  47. by HatetheSwamp on July 10, 2024 11:16 am

    It's a great many "Christians", for the way they have of distorting and contorting that religion into a theocratic blueprint to attack and condemn others that Jesus Himself wouldn't even recognize, that I hate. Christians who constantly wipe their asses with the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes the moment they want to stray from its precepts for some political or personal gain reasons.

    po,

    I literally wept as I was reading your poignant endorsement of the Christian religion. Baha hoohoo heehee ha!


  48. by Ponderer on July 10, 2024 11:27 am

    I think your incapability of separating Christians from the religion of Christianity that they supposedly adhere to explains the lion's share of your misunderstanding of what I have been saying.


  49. by oldedude on July 10, 2024 11:33 am
    I read more disappointment in that post.


  50. by HatetheSwamp on July 10, 2024 11:40 am

    Huh, po!!!!!?

    You should know by now that I am deeply chagrined by the "religion" of many of the people of institutionalized Christianity.

    So, don't go there. You're being inane.


  51. by Ponderer on July 10, 2024 11:53 am

    "I read more disappointment in that post." -olde dude

    I shouldn't be disappointed? Even Hate is disappointed with a great many "Christians" nowadays. Not that he'll be all that chagrined by those very same "Christians" when they start manipulating and bastardizing our Constitution to inject bigoted theocracy into our government. He'll be all fine and dandy with that.


  52. by HatetheSwamp on July 10, 2024 12:14 pm

    Not that (pb)'ll be all that chagrined by those very same "Christians" when they start manipulating and bastardizing our Constitution...

    Y'know, po, I love the energy you bring to our conversations. But, try to keep in touch with reality...

    ...or, is that just a plain and outright lie?


  53. by Ponderer on July 10, 2024 12:35 pm

    I am confident that the actions of a new Trump administration, and the Heritage Foundation with their Project 2025 will, "...on Day One", in at least some small way validate my trepidation.

    I'm patient enough to wait for such validation.




  54. by HatetheSwamp on July 10, 2024 12:41 pm

    po,

    Are you insane, moronic or prevaricating?

    Trump was by a freakin friggin EFFINmile, the most moderate GOP candidate in 024 as far as LGBTQIA2+ issues.

    The only place he's at odds with the LGBTQIA2+ mainstream in on biological men playing in women's sports... and, you've said that you agree with that view.



  55. by Ponderer on July 10, 2024 2:26 pm

    Hmmm. Yeah.

    And I suppose we can just take him at his word.








































































    🙄


  56. by HatetheSwamp on July 10, 2024 3:55 pm

    Wow. Such paranoia. Trump has always been open minded on LGBT issues. What evidence do you have that he's a Nazi homophobe?

    I'm beginning to think that Donna may need to get you some help.


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