Post: It's weird to predict a hung jury.

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Law selectors, pages, etc.

It's weird to predict a hung jury.

By Curt_Anderson
May 21, 2024 11:44 am
Category: Law

(0.0 from 0 votes)
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Reportedly Trump's defense team is predicting a hung jury, as are some legal pundits---mostly on the right. It's like a football coach and fans predicting the team will play to a draw in the big game. Just as tie games are relatively rare, according to the Court Statistics Project, state court jurisdictions have an average hung jury rate of about 6.2%.

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Comments on "It's weird to predict a hung jury.":

by Indy! on May 21, 2024 12:14 pm

I can easily see some Trumper just deciding to throw a monkey wrench into the process because the most important thing to the GOP is not the USA - it's protecting Trump. It's comical how hilariously duped they've been by this low rent $2 con man. 😂

by HatetheSwamp on May 21, 2024 12:19 pm

I'm not sure that's how it works. My Legal Goober #1 says that if three of the jurors can see the case for what it is, the jury will hang. That a Manhattan jury might acquit Trump seems impossible... even with this set of facts.

And, he knows juries.

For myself, the case has gone much better for Trump than I would have guessed. The CNN video that I linked yesterday has both of its experts blaming the prosecution for handling poorly the obvious dangers in building a case around a witness as flawed as Cohen.

Whatever. My Legal Goober #3, Andy McCarthy is a prosecutor who tried many cases in New York. He's predicting a hung jury.

by Indy! on May 21, 2024 3:50 pm

Last I heard, almost all criminal cases require unanimity by all jurors to acquit or convict. Ergo, one person can hold out leading to a mistrial (or "hung jury" which is simply slang for a mistrial)

by HatetheSwamp on May 21, 2024 4:30 pm

Correct, Indy. Dershowitz is saying that one juror will eventually be convinced to change their mind. S/he will need at least two others to remain strong.

by Indy! on May 21, 2024 7:08 pm

Why would she need 2 others? If that's what the pedophile Douche said he's an even worse attorney than I thought.

by Ponderer on May 21, 2024 8:18 pm

The prosecution has presented its case leaving no reasonable doubt. There is simply no reasonable way to view all the evidence presented and corroborated and doubt that Trump wasn't guilty of the exact crimes he is accused of. And there was no sane, competent defense presented whatsoever to create any reasonable doubt that the prosecution has proven its case.

Even Hate, in his heart of hearts, knows beyond any reasonable doubt that Trump is despicably guilty. Regardless of anything the character he presents here declares.

But that could just be me giving him the benefit of a reasonable doubt.

by HatetheSwamp on May 22, 2024 3:18 am

pb knows that Trump is despicable but he still doesn't know what the "other crime" is that transforms this from a NY misdemeanor into a Federal felony. Curt's not able to help me out.

So, po. You are a professor at an Ivy League law school. Help me out.

by Ponderer on May 22, 2024 6:59 am

See...?

I am often way too generous giving people the benefit of the doubt.

by oldedude on May 23, 2024 1:50 pm
Even Hate, in his heart of hearts, knows beyond any reasonable doubt that Trump is despicably guilty. Regardless of anything the character he presents here declares.

Like Lead, I'm wondering what NY State Statute is available to charge someone in a Federal election?

I'm also wondering about the Class G Misdemeanor charge against trumpster, and how they could plead down a Class E (Higher than a "G") Misdemeanor to "we'll just forget about it when they knew Cowen stole $30K and admitted to it.

Again, not having a law degree, po. Since you are a professor at an Ivy League law school. Help me out.

by Indy! on May 23, 2024 2:08 pm

Cohen is not on trial. He has to be charged and then they can deal with his (alleged) theft.

by Curt_Anderson on May 23, 2024 2:32 pm
OD,
Elections in the United States are conducted at the state level and that includes elections for federal office.

by oldedude on May 23, 2024 4:09 pm
But states have no say over federal legislation and cannot have trials for federal crimes. Period. PoliSCI 101. I've said it before, a state has ZERO credibility in filing charges on federal law/crimes. All in all, you're just plain wrong.

by Curt_Anderson on May 23, 2024 4:32 pm
OD,
Well, if your interpretation of law is correct, maybe Trump's legal team will make that case.

by Indy! on May 23, 2024 5:52 pm

...odds of Trump testifying inching upwards...

by oldedude on May 24, 2024 6:45 am
Curt- That's one of the contentions to vacate.

States to NOT have the authority to charge under federal statutes. Nor do the feds have the authority to charge under state statutes. The courts are two separate entities other than constitutional review by circuit courts. Welcome to federalism...

by oldedude on May 24, 2024 6:50 am
I'm also still waiting for someone to cite the NY law trumpster violated. In the references, prosecution's citation required a secondary law be violated to make the charge against trumpster. That violation was never stated. I may have missed it so if someone can help me with this, that would be welcome.

by HatetheSwamp on May 24, 2024 8:45 am

I'm also still waiting for someone to cite the NY law trumpster violated.

Me too. And, I've asked several times. Amazingly, the prosecution has rested. We're up to closing arguments. Still, the "other crime" has not been stated. Soon, the judge's instructions.

If this isn't a Stalinesque Show Trial, I don't know what is.

Tell me, OD, if you think I'm wrong, when Trump is convicted at worst, his polls won't dip and, very likely, will improve.

It's what happens to black n!gg�r$ in the south back in the day...

by oldedude on May 24, 2024 9:38 am
"...in the south back in the day" and his "real" "crime" was to save her from curt and indy talking up how she should get tied to a tree. The "charge?" Oh, I dunno, we'll make one up as we go. Either way, he's going to hang anyway, and his family will have a cross burned in front of their yard.

by Curt_Anderson on May 24, 2024 9:59 am
HtS, OD,
What don�t you understand about �the indictment charged Trump with 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in the first degree, in violation of New York Penal Law �175.10.�?

by Curt_Anderson on May 24, 2024 10:08 am
In short, the Manhattan DA�s case rests on firm legal footing.

I. �Intent to Defraud�

�Intent to defraud� is an element of both the misdemeanor (second degree) and felony (first degree) violations of Falsifying Business Records in New York.

Under New York Penal Law � 175.05 (the misdemeanor offense),

�A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he:

Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by law or by the nature of his position; or
Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.
New York Penal Law � 175.10 (the felony offense), adds to the language of an �intent to defraud� the following requirement:

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Nor is it unusual:
Data shows 9,794 cases involving state penal law 175.10, or falsifying business records in the first degree, have been arraigned in both local and superior New York state courts since 2015.
justsecurity.org
law.com

by HatetheSwamp on May 24, 2024 1:00 pm

What don�t you understand about �the indictment charged Trump with 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in the first degree, in violation of New York Penal Law �175.10.�?

Yeah. We both get that, Curt. Your problem is that the statute of limitations has expired on that crime.

"Some offenses such as rape and murder have no statute or limitations. Most felony offenses have a five year statute of limitations period. Misdemeanor offenses have a two year statute of limitation period, while petty offenses generally have a one year statute of limitations."

by oldedude on May 24, 2024 1:38 pm
In addition to what Lead said. New York Penal Law �175.10 requires a predicate act. In english, it means there has to be a reason for New York Penal Law �175.10 to have been done. THAT was never stated in the "trial" which is also required by law. Why would you ask would prosecution not even mention the predicate act?

1. If there was none, there is no crime. 2. If the predicate act was done more than the statute of limitations allows, there is no crime. 3. IF they claim the act was for using that money for a person's candidacy into a federal elected position, the Federal Election Commission is the branch that has the auspice to charge in the case. They refused because there wasn't a case.

That is what I have been asking for. In order to use New York Penal Law �175.10, you have to fulfill the law on all accounts. Including the predicate act(s).
Honestly, you should have done your homework on this. Or asked po, with her constitutional law background.

by Curt_Anderson on May 24, 2024 2:30 pm
OD,
An initial subpoena to Trump was issued by Bragg�s predecessor in 2019, and Trump fought it for years, including multiple trips to the U.S. Supreme Court. After Bragg was elected in 2022, he first successfully prosecuted the Trump Organization, along with its CFO Allen Weisselberg, for a criminal financial scheme. He simultaneously evaluated the instant case and brought it a little more than a year after taking office and within the statute of limitations.

by HatetheSwamp on May 24, 2024 2:48 pm

Subpoena? Not: Arrest warrant? Indictment?

"Let not your heart be trubled." (John 14:1) Judge Merchan will handle this with bogus jury instructions.

by Curt_Anderson on May 24, 2024 3:00 pm
HtS, why do you act as if words like "indictment" are in a foreign language?

Btw, that indictment was approved by a Manhattan grand jury on March 30, 2023. Trump traveled from his residence in Florida to New York City on April 3, 2023, where he surrendered to the Manhattan DA's office and was arraigned the next day.

Btw, I predict that Judge Merchan will be scrupulously careful in giving jury instructions. Most appeals are because the defense argues that there was something wrong in how the judge instructed the jury.

by HatetheSwamp on May 24, 2024 3:29 pm

Btw, that indictment was approved by a Manhattan grand jury on March 30, 2023.

Well beyond the statute of limitations. Eh?

by Curt_Anderson on May 24, 2024 3:36 pm
Trump was subpoenaed in 2019, as I noted above---within the statute of limitations.

Doesn't it occur to you that Trump's lawyers are perhaps at least a little smarter that you and OD? If any of your legal arguments had any merit don't you think that they would have successfully made those arguments by now?

by HatetheSwamp on May 24, 2024 4:05 pm

Curt,

I get it. You understand the law better than do I. However, here's my Legal Goober #3 and Phil Holloway and Megyn Kelly speaking truth about the case against Trump, Judge Merchan and the jury instructions.

I'll say again. I don't understand how nonideologues who are common sense moderate and independent voters receive and process information but, on a political level, no matter what... in the NY trial fiasco... this is a winner for "the Orange Turd."

View Video

by HatetheSwamp on May 25, 2024 3:09 am
Jonathan Turley:

"Alvin Bragg hopes that the paucity of direct evidence of a crime will be overcome with an abundance of hostility to Donald Trump. We will see if a Manhattan jury will now exercise blind justice or willful blindness."

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