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It's weird to predict a hung jury.
Law by Curt_Anderson     May 21, 2024 11:44 am (Rating: 0.0) Last comment by: oldedude (12 comments) [116 views]


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007 James Bond selectors, pages, etc.
FISA Bill Passes in the House. Now Being Sent to the Senate
By oldedude
April 13, 2024 9:00 am
Category: 007 James Bond

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I started out to be one of the prime supporters of the FISA courts and PATRIOT Act. I know that indy hasn't been. I've always felt the government is more responsible for itself than apparently what it really is.

Since obomber, there have been flat out abuses of the FISA courts and PATRIOT Act, the intent and content of their thin lines of special applications in US law that generally violate the constitution. I honestly couldn't believe that ANY administration could have the balls to not take this act seriously. I felt then, as I feel now, that any agency that violated this act is nothing more than the beginning of the end of this republic.

Title I: Enhancing domestic security against terrorism
Title II: Enhanced surveillance procedures
Title III: Anti-money-laundering to prevent terrorism
Title IV: Border security
Title V: Removing obstacles to investigating terrorism
Title VI: Victims and families of victims of terrorism
Title VII: Increased information sharing for critical infrastructure protection
Title VIII: Terrorism criminal law
Title IX: Improved intelligence
Title X: Miscellaneous


Title I of the Patriot Act authorizes measures to enhance the ability of domestic security services to prevent terrorism. The title established a fund for counter-terrorist activities and increased funding for the Terrorist Screening Center which is administered by the FBI. The military was authorized to provide assistance in some situations that involve weapons of mass destruction when so requested by the Attorney General. The National Electronic Crime Task Force was expanded, along with the President's authority and abilities in cases of terrorism.

It originally included "the prayer of Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, the Archbishop of Washington in a Mass on September 12, 2001 for our Nation and the victims in the immediate aftermath of the terrorist hijackings and attacks in New York City, Washington, D.C., and Pennsylvania reminds all Americans that 'We must seek the guilty and not strike out against the innocent or we become like them who are without moral guidance or proper direction.'"

The act is a fine line passed ONLY in order to protect itself from another 9/11 or more serious incident. Initially, it has (kind of) done that. The US has the most robust banking system that keeps away unlawful use by those who wish to destroy us. It was Treasury that linked the 9/11 case. And the Tsarnaev family. This turned into an extremely important feature of charging them federally and linking them internationally including their handlers outside the US. Had the brothers not been so stupid, the bomb would have cut a swath in downtown Boston as well as any car bomb in Ireland or the middle east.

The abuses though, must be looked at. Those abusers need to be accountable for their actions and charged with the appropriate prosecution we charge others that violate our constitution and those laws that protect us all.

"Professionals" that LIE to the FISA courts by changing evidence given to the FISA courts, or knowingly use false or inaccurate information are on the top of my list. Knowingly taking action that abuses the act should be considered the worst of the worst. Not just "being able to retire." Those people should be stripped of any job they have and spend the maximum amount of federal prison time allowed. General population, no parole.

Others that abuse this act are those who minimize this law and compare someone "hurt feelings" with the intent and content of the PATRIOT Act. This administration has championed the wokester mentality of butthurt equals 3,000 dead. That's bullshit. If you use the PATRIOT Act to charge a crime, prosecution needs to show intent, organization, and ability to use terrorist acts to produce a higher level according to the law. The prime example is; are parents pisseed off at school board members that chose NOT to tell them their child was raped with the Tsarnaev family of importing and building a terrorist cell in the US and carrying out a mass casualty incident.


Cited and related links:

  1. en.wikipedia.org

Comments Start Below


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Comments on "FISA Bill Passes in the House. Now Being Sent to the Senate":

  1. by Curt_Anderson on April 13, 2024 10:01 am
    Unless I am mistaken, the MAGA heartburn over FISA boils down to Russia, Russia, Russia! Trump and his supporters are outraged and insulted at the notion that Putin would do anything untoward to help Trump be elected. But really, why should we think that America is immune to Russian election interference? Other countries are rightfully distrustful of Russia. If there are Americans who are collaborating with the Russians, they should have the usual constitutional protections, but not special treatment.

    (Jurist)Belgium’s Prime Minister Alexander de Croo announced in a press conference on Friday that Belgium has opened an investigation into alleged Russian interference in the upcoming EU parliamentary elections.

    The Prime Minister specified that the Belgian intelligence received information from Czech authorities that revealed pro-Russian activity in the EU involving several types of espionage networks. The Czech authorities allege that Moscow approached members of the European Parliament and offered them money to promote a pro-Russian agenda in Europe. De Croo went on to state that Russia did this to “help elect more pro-Russian candidates in the European Parliament and to enforce a pro-Russian narrative.”
    jurist.org


  2. by HatetheSwamp on April 13, 2024 10:52 am

    Unless I am mistaken, the MAGA heartburn over FISA boils down to Russia, Russia, Russia!

    As has become clear, you don't understand how MAGAs think nor what they care about.

    Based on what I've seen of this looooooooong debate, on the GOP side, the "heartburn" is most intense among the freedom loving, libertarian Big-Brother-despising members of the party...

    ...who continue to believe in the Bill of Rights.


  3. by Curt_Anderson on April 13, 2024 11:11 am
    So if Russia were to be replaced with Al Qaeda you’d be hollering about an intrusive FISA running roughshod over the Al Qaeda collaborator’s constitutional rights.


  4. by Curt_Anderson on April 13, 2024 11:11 am
    So if Russia were to be replaced with Al Qaeda you’d be hollering about an intrusive FISA running roughshod over the Al Qaeda collaborator’s constitutional rights.


  5. by HatetheSwamp on April 13, 2024 11:37 am

    Me? I think hard-core libertarians will always stand for a radical application of the freedom described in the Bill of Rights?

    As far as I'm concerned, it's a close call but I think that the fibbies have grossly abused FISA. That scares me.

    You?


  6. by Indy! on April 13, 2024 11:56 am

    Passing the PATRIOT knee-jerk re/b>ACTion was the first step towards the end of the Republic. In the end, our grand children will learn 9/11 was an inside job created specifically to curtail American's freedom. As George W. Smirk once said... The terrorists have won.


  7. by Indy! on April 13, 2024 11:57 am

    Supposed to look like this...

    PATRIOT knee-jerk reACTion

    Blame Curt and his board with no editing capability. 😌


  8. by Indy! on April 13, 2024 11:57 am

    Try again...

    PATRIOT knee-jerk reACTion


  9. by Indy! on April 13, 2024 11:57 am

    There you go - 3rd time is the charm.


  10. by Curt_Anderson on April 13, 2024 12:14 pm
    "htS,
    "The FBI grossly abused FISA"? Do you have some inside information which you could share here?

    John Durham did the authoritative critique and investigation of the FBI vis-a-vis FISA. He didn't uncover FBI abuse (gross or otherwise).







    cbsnews.com
    politico.com


  11. by HatetheSwamp on April 13, 2024 2:28 pm

    Curt,

    What's up with your Russia Russia Russia obsession?

    The FBI acknowledges that it abused FISA Section 702 hundreds of thousands of times. But claims not no more.

    Fool me once, eh?

    A resurfaced report shows that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) misused Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to conduct warrantless searches against U.S. citizens over 278,000 times from 2020 to 2021.

    When OD and pb mock you et.al. for choosing to be intentionally misinformed, we ain't kidding, buddy.

    I watch congressional hearings. I don't need right-wing media... nor, as you prefer, your Holy Trinity nor the metaphorical Rachel.

    FBI abuse of Section 702 is admitted... and is common knowledge. Without question.

    Sheeeeeeeeeeeesh, Curt!

    See links.

    americanmilitarynews.com
    View Video


  12. by oldedude on April 13, 2024 2:49 pm
    curt-So if Russia were to be replaced with Al Qaeda you’d be hollering about an intrusive FISA running roughshod over the Al Qaeda collaborator’s constitutional rights.
    not me by a long shot. You totally misread the entire thread lead. It's not about other countries. It's about the government YOU SUPPORT that is violating the rights of US Citizens on US Soil. Please read again.

    "The FBI grossly abused FISA"? Do you have some inside information which you could share here?
    I have. Many, many times. Some of which I brought up again. In the times I've brought them up, you've feigned stupidity about them. I'm sick of it. You're just too stupid to actually understand basic political systems and any sort of law minus what Himmler put out. And I mean that sincerely.

    It was an easy question in any reliable search engine. I referenced four of them in the citations just to get you started. And six others below (if you can find them). I figure for someone that "says" the GOP can't find facts should look in the fucking mirror.

    Statement of Glenn A. Fine, Inspector General, U.S. Department of Justice before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary concerning “Reauthorizing the USA Patriot Act” (https://oig.justice.gov/node/696)

    Surveillance Court Finds FBI Repeatedly Misused FISA Program to Conduct Unlawful Surveillance of Americans (https://epic.org/surveillance-court-finds-fbi-repeatedly-misused-fisa-program-to-conduct-unlawful-surveillance-of-americans/)

    FBI abused surveillance tool against Jan. 6 suspects: FISA Court (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/1872614/fbi-abused-surveillance-tool-against-jan-6-suspects-fisa-court/)

    JULY 14, 2023 | PART OF HEARING ON USE OF FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT (FISA) (https://www.c-span.org/video/?529317-3/government-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-act-part-1)

    FBI abused spy law but only like 280,000 times in a year (https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/22/fbi_fisa_abuse/)

    Patterns of Misconduct: FBI Intelligence Violations from 2001 - 2008 (https://www.eff.org/wp/patterns-misconduct-fbi-intelligence-violations)

    brennancenter.org
    aclu.org
    jolt.law.harvard.edu
    aclu.org


  13. by Curt_Anderson on April 13, 2024 3:12 pm
    HtS,
    The report you cite is a FOX News report favored by Charlie Kirk. OD offers links to more of the same. If there were all these examples of "abuse" by the FBI why aren't dozens of FBI agents and officials in prison already? The obvious conclusion is that the FBI operated with the limits of law.

    Congress would not be rewriting and tinkering with the FISA statutes unless they felt that law gave the FBI too much latitude. Staying within the law is not abuse.

    The US Constitution protects US citizens---I am all for that. It doesn't apply to foreigners and foreign governments.


  14. by Indy! on April 13, 2024 4:08 pm

    John H. Durham
    Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice


    So the mouse is still guarding the cheese. 🙄



  15. by HatetheSwamp on April 13, 2024 4:52 pm

    Curt,

    We're you afraid to watch the video?


  16. by oldedude on April 13, 2024 4:53 pm
    If there were all these examples of "abuse" by the FBI why aren't dozens of FBI agents and officials in prison already?

    Because the people at fault were under orders by the people deciding what was going to happen to them. Are you really THAT FUCKING STUPID? A lawyer that ADMITTED changing part of a subpoena so it would be within the clearance of the FISC, then changed the information back to what it was. This MOTHERFUCKER ADMITTED HE DID THIS. What was he given? The chance to "retire" with full benefits. He was quickly and summarily disbarred by the National Bar association because of the heinous acts of illegal activity. The DOJ did nothing more to him.

    (2)Whoever, having been convicted of a violation of paragraph (1), knowingly and willfully prepares or assists in preparing an application for immigration benefits pursuant to this chapter, or the regulations promulgated thereunder, whether or not for a fee or other remuneration and regardless of whether in any matter within the jurisdiction of the Service, shall be fined in accordance with title 18, imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both, and prohibited from preparing or assisting in preparing any other such application.

    We have talked about this at least a dozen times. THAT IS THE MAIN SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD. YOUR "president" doesn't give a fuck about keeping within the law regardless of the laws he's not enforcing. He has proven himself time and time again that he's a worthless piece of shit that completely disregards the constitution. I know you'll defend him, just like all the other little germans defended hitler in 1933. Please pull you head out of your arse.

    The US Constitution protects US citizens---I am all for that. It doesn't apply to foreigners and foreign governments.
    As usual, not entirely correct. Foreign governments are NOT treated like US citizens and have much fewer restrictions on them. Much like paying tickets, or matters of arrest.

    The foreign fighters you also approve of are given the SAME STANDARDS OF LAW AS A US CITIZEN (WTF did you get "any" knowledge of our legal system????) Dumbass.

    You are sincerely an embarrassment to everyone that actually understands any part of 6th grade government class. You make them look like cornell legal scholars.
    law.cornell.edu


  17. by oldedude on April 13, 2024 4:55 pm
    indy- naw, that was awhile ago. I think he's pretty well done.


  18. by HatetheSwamp on April 13, 2024 5:18 pm

    It stuns me, Curt, that you even can be this intentionally misinformed.


  19. by Curt_Anderson on April 13, 2024 7:21 pm
    "We're you afraid to watch the video?" ---HtS,

    No but I am pretty sure you were. Director Wray defended the FBI adequately, I don't need to say more, except this: You often remind us that a person is innocent unless found guilty in a court of law. Of course, you only say this in reference to Donald Trump. However, the presumption of innocence holds true with the people of a governmental agency, especially when they haven't even been indicted, much less charged with a crime.


  20. by Indy! on April 13, 2024 7:54 pm

    This problem started with Ford pardoning Nixon. That was the seed that grew into what we have today - nobody at the top ever going to jail.


  21. by oldedude on April 14, 2024 2:58 am
    curt- what I find amazing is your refusal to look at all the other evidence in this case. Your "adherence to the innocent until proven guilty is only good in your examples also. And trumpster is ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent. So you saying anything to Lead about making an exception has zero value.

    And even with the massive amount of evidence against the FBI, you refuse to look at any evidence (or the evidence they are ILLEGALLY manipulating the system). This is NOT just a pedojoe thing. It's a DOJ/IN thing. They are rogue agencies in our Republic.

    Even liberal judges are seeing the result of what the dims are saying now. And calling them on their shit. The Mar a Lago may get thrown out because of the bullshit they are doing. If that happens, DOJ is in deep shit regarding selective enforcement, which the dims "used" to be adamantly against (in the great days of the dem party).



  22. by HatetheSwamp on April 14, 2024 3:42 am

    No but I am pretty sure you were. Director Wray defended the FBI adequately,...

    Curt,

    Director Wray admits that the FBI abused Section 702 nearly 300,000 times.

    You know the FBI's history in the Hoover years. You know that it's likely that the FBI won the 016 election for Trump over comments late in the campaign about Hillary's emails.

    Why would you even want to pretend it is impossible that it abused FISA!!!!!?

    Of course it might. By Wray's admission it has.


  23. by oldedude on April 14, 2024 6:23 am
    It seems sooooo strange that you and I of all folks would see eye to eye on this. We have surpassed surreal.


  24. by oldedude on April 14, 2024 8:17 am
    Sorry, the above post was for indy.

    curt- I've said it before. You're the strangest "Libertarian" I've ever heard of. For someone who says he doesn't like "big government" and should stay out of the lives of the people, you sure lovelovelove to interfere (to the point of being unconstitutional, illegal, and immoral), to invade into people's lives. You believe it is a government "right" in the US to wipe the constitution with your arse an illegally and immorally use illegal actions to surveil them and leave those that are harming people alone. You don't mind, and actually support criminal activity as a piece the government should stay out of. And when a person or a group use their constitutional rights to object, you want them charged as international terrorists. I just don't get it.

    The report you cite is a FOX News report favored by Charlie Kirk. OD offers links to more of the same. If there were all these examples of "abuse" by the FBI why aren't dozens of FBI agents and officials in prison already? The obvious conclusion is that the FBI operated with the limits of law.
    I know you really need to rationalize your existence. I actually gave you 10 citations, all independent of each other (not a small feat) that cited illegal activity of DOJ. You chose to pick a couple of mine to answer. And when you "answered" it was ONLY because Kirk was involved in the answer, and not the facts behind it, NOT any that cited other examples of their illegal use of the FISC and article 702. You're steering away from that. I'm sure because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


  25. by oldedude on April 14, 2024 8:34 am
    From Lead- When OD and pb mock you et.al. for choosing to be intentionally misinformed, we ain't kidding, buddy.

    I watch congressional hearings. I don't need right-wing media... nor, as you prefer, your Holy Trinity nor the metaphorical Rachel.

    FBI abuse of Section 702 is admitted... and is common knowledge. Without question.

    I also want to include indy on this, because although we had enough "faith" in the US system, Lead and I didn't think this could happen. And certainly NOT to the extent is has in the past three years. Indy did. And as few things as he and I agree on, he nailed this one. I still want to have the faith it will correct itself before we truly become a despot third-world shithole. But that hope is fading.

    If you look, both of us were talking about this before "it became cool." We both knew it was illegal when the information on the steele dossier (that one you still believe in) came out and DOJ was caught with their shorthairs hanging out regarding the "evidence" they were using.

    We talked about it when shiftless said "there is irrefutable evidence" trumpster was guilty (about a dozen times). I was hoping beyond belief they would use the dossier to press charges against trumpster. That way, they would have to use the wrong-doing in a court of law. Not even the dims are that stoopid though. Well some of them aren't. You still are a dim belieber.

    We actually understand the level of how close to a dictatorship this really is.


  26. by HatetheSwamp on April 14, 2024 8:46 am

    We actually understand the level of how close to a dictatorship this really is.

    In recent years, the number of instances in which Curt and po, Donna and isle have become orgasmically joyful over Big Brother behavior in DC is truly disturbing. That Americans could conduct that J6 Show Trial while people like isle and the whole gang cheered it on is disheartening.

    All the Big Brother Covid actions? Sheeeeesh!

    OD, we are heading toward ugly times.


  27. by Curt_Anderson on April 14, 2024 9:05 am
    Only one person was found liable or guilty of abuse; his name is Donald Trump.
    apnews.com


  28. by HatetheSwamp on April 14, 2024 9:58 am

    Can you understand, Curt, that moderate and independent voters can't take the E Jean thing seriously?

    Those people are detached from ideologies and are driven by common sense. E Jean still can't remember the EFFINyear the alleged assault took place... forget knowing the date, heck, even the month. Common sense, man!

    I despise Trump but even I can't believe her version of she said... nor do the voters who'll determine the result of the election.


  29. by Curt_Anderson on April 14, 2024 10:23 am
    "I despise Trump but even I..." ---HtS

    😁 🤣 😁 🤣 😁 🤣 😁 🤣 😁 🤣 😁 🤣 😁 🤣 😁 🤣

    "Even I"!??! What don't you believe that Trump has said? You believe Trump's claims that the 2020 election was rigged and stolen from him.



  30. by HatetheSwamp on April 14, 2024 10:34 am

    pb does not believe Trump's claims about the 020 election.


  31. by Curt_Anderson on April 14, 2024 10:41 am
    "pb does not believe Trump's claims about the 020 election." --HtS (aka pb)

    That's news! When did you come to this realization?
    selectsmart.com


  32. by HatetheSwamp on April 14, 2024 10:58 am

    To which part of that do you refer?


  33. by Curt_Anderson on April 14, 2024 11:30 am
    Parts? I only see one part to your statement. I am referring to the part where you say that you do not believe Trump's claims about the 2020 election. When did you accept that fact? Or is there some nuanced election conspiracy theory in which you accept some unfounded claims but not all?


  34. by HatetheSwamp on April 14, 2024 11:34 am

    Curt,

    I never accepted Trump's claims about 020. My take on the election has not changed since a few days after election day:

    There was substantial vote fraud in the election of a nature that will make it impossible to determine who the legitimate winner was.


  35. by Curt_Anderson on April 14, 2024 11:42 am
    OK, so nothing in your thinking about the election has changed except maybe the verbiage you use. You still believe the sexual assaulter.

    Rational people accept the fact that Joe Biden won the election fair and square and that the election was secure and an honest reflection of voter sentiment.



    vox.com


  36. by HatetheSwamp on April 14, 2024 11:54 am

    OK, so nothing in your thinking about the election has changed except maybe the verbiage you use. You still believe the sexual assaulter.


    How has my verbiage changed?

    What makes you think I still believe the assaulter?


  37. by oldedude on April 14, 2024 2:12 pm
    Curt- So now I'm wondering how this got turned into a trumpster thing. The FISA/ FISC issue has nothing to do with him other than he, along with several thousand US Citizens were victims of the abuse of the act and the system that abused the law.

    Can you 'splain that to me? I know you're on the defense right now, as well you should be. supporting our government's disregard of it's constitution and laws is pretty hard to bear. You're choosing to be a nonfunctional illiterate voter.


  38. by HatetheSwamp on April 14, 2024 2:27 pm

    I, too, would love to know what Curt thinks this has to do with Trump. Clearly, Curt exists on another plain.


  39. by Curt_Anderson on April 14, 2024 2:38 pm
    "Curt- So now I'm wondering how this got turned into a trumpster thing." ---HtS

    See my comments #19 and #27. Between those comments and HtS's the transition happened.

    The political fringes on both sides are where people have their hair on fire about FISA. See link. Being that I am closer to the political center, I have a more sanguine view of FISA. I also hold the opinion that our constitutional rights are not total and absolute.
    theweek.com


  40. by HatetheSwamp on April 14, 2024 2:56 pm

    This ain't about FISA, Curt, it's about the FBI.


  41. by Curt_Anderson on April 14, 2024 3:28 pm
    Oh, that too. I am well aware that MAGA favors defunding the police--especially federal law enforcement.


  42. by oldedude on April 14, 2024 6:47 pm
    Being that I am closer to the political center, I have a more sanguine view of FISA. I also hold the opinion that our constitutional rights are not total and absolute.

    FIRST OF ALL. THIS IS THE GUY THAT DIDN'T KNOW THAT CHINA WAS A COMMUNIST COUNTRY!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    So what agency did you work for and for how many years? Because if you did, you've been hiding that fact really fucking well in your ignorance.

    I myself am NOT so good about cops making up their own laws. Like beating a person to death because they're black. Or suspending the constitution for one person but not another. Or making up a law to arrest one person, and will never use the law again.

    OF COURSE, you appreciate the pedophiles (like joe), rapists and drug dealers because you make money from them being a slum and slutlord. You like suspending the constitution any time you want to suit your own despot theories about "right" and "wrong" just like they do in congo now. You love politicians and cops getting paid off so you can get a cut in ORE. I doubt very seriously if you son (assuming he's "real" and an "officer") would ever take a bribe like you do from the drug dealers. Again, I support him more than you do. You can't even support them when they're dying and being brought back to life with NARCAN.


    Oh, that too. I am well aware that MAGA favors defunding the police--especially federal law enforcement.
    You don't get out much do you? Because I want you to prove (with a reputable source) it's the GOP that wants and has defunded the police in their jurisdictions, asshole. Places like San Francisco, NYC, Chicago, Philly, LA. And the list of dim cities that turned on the police goes on and on and on...
    apnews.com


  43. by Curt_Anderson on April 14, 2024 7:31 pm
    OD,
    You are misinformed. When have I ever said that China is not a communist nation? When have I ever said I worked for a governmental agency?

    "I myself am NOT so good about cops making up their own laws. Like beating a person to death because they're black. Or suspending the constitution for one person but not another. Or making up a law to arrest one person, and will never use the law again." --OD

    You might be surprised to learn that cops cannot make up their own laws. However, they have the discretion of when to apply laws. Maybe traffic cops never let you off with a warning because they don't like your looks. Also in certain circumstances cops may use deadly force. In some situations they cannot. Just ask Derek Chauvin or the Mississippi "Goon Squad".

    I never said that Republicans wanted to defund the police in THEIR jurisdictions. I said, "MAGA favors defunding the police--especially federal law enforcement."

    (The Hill)Former President Trump on Wednesday called for federal law enforcement agencies to be defunded, comments that came one day after he was arraigned in a New York probe.

    “REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS SHOULD DEFUND THE DOJ AND FBI UNTIL THEY COME TO THEIR SENSES,” Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform....


    Furthermore...The DOJ provides funding to local law enforcement agencies, last November it was announced that more than $334 million in grant funding to law enforcement agencies and stakeholders. ---Police Magazine

    "Mike Johnson Faces Backlash for Plan to 'Defund the Police'" ---Newsweek
    thehill.com
    policemag.com
    newsweek.com


  44. by oldedude on April 15, 2024 12:08 am
    You are misinformed. When have I ever said that China is not a communist nation?
    Well, you said that businesses in China were owned by individuals, and it was stupid that GOP members thought Chinese companies were owned by the CCP. So you don't know the economic system in China. And you don't know anything at all about political systems, including your own. I continually mock you about this because it's the epitome of your vast lack of knowledge about politics and the US legal system. You should have paid more attention in 6th grade civics.

    You might be surprised to learn that cops cannot make up their own laws. However, they have the discretion of when to apply laws. Maybe traffic cops never let you off with a warning because they don't like your looks. Also in certain circumstances cops may use deadly force. In some situations they cannot. Just ask Derek Chauvin or the Mississippi "Goon Squad".

    I'M not surprised at all. But that's EXACTLY what you say you wanted the DOJ to do with the FISA and FISC! So now, you're talking out of both sides of your arse. They not only violated that law, they violated the Constitution THOUSANDS OF TIMES THAT YOU SUPPORT. So the law they are supposed to adhere to, they are violating. The law is extremely clear about what can and cannot be used in these cases. Much like the RICO statute that you made a fool out of you (see below also, since this is the over-riding issue with the DOJ violating the law).

    "Discretion" only goes so far, like you said. According to the courts, the DOJ OVERSTEPPED AND VIOLATED THE LAW IN THEIR ACTIONS. THIS EXCEEDS ANY "DISCRETION" THEY MAY HAVE HAD. This is in CAPS because this point has been listed in at least 10 of the citations you should have read. That's what this whole thread is about. You are arguing your own points. Again. Whenever you try to ride two horses you're just making yourself look like a bigger ass.

    Furthermore...The DOJ provides funding to local law enforcement agencies, last November it was announced that more than $334 million in grant funding to law enforcement agencies and stakeholders. ---Police Magazine
    I know this also. Many times through joint DOJ and local task forces (which I've been a part of, and my guess is that you just found out about). This includes "Safe Streets" incentive (FBI), OCDTF Funding (DEA/DOJ), Gang Task Forces, Nevada High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area (HIDTA), etc.

    This has ZERO to do with FISA/FISC. So please get your facts straight.

    You'd better watch out though, one of these task forces is specifically set up for Human Trafficking and child sexual exploitation. So someone actually believes this is a problem. LVMPD Human Trafficking Task Force, just got some arrests on a guy that was not only trafficking kiddie porn (maybe he's a friend of yours?), but also abusing children.

    “REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS SHOULD DEFUND THE DOJ AND FBI UNTIL THEY COME TO THEIR SENSES,” Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform....
    Interesting. Although you took it completely out of context, this was EXACTLY about the FISA/FISC, where the DOJ/FBI has admitted to wrongdoing and illegally using the PATRIOT Act by lying to the courts and illegally using that law against US citizens.

    Honestly, you need to actually learn about this before you go further. It would be a big help to you actually understanding what you're talking about.


  45. by HatetheSwamp on April 15, 2024 12:26 am

    I am well aware that MAGA favors defunding the police--especially federal law enforcement.

    Not MAGA. And, not federal law enforcement. The FBI yes.


  46. by oldedude on April 15, 2024 12:36 am
    curt- I took a look at your responses on this.

    1. The thread has to do solely with the PATRIOT Act, FISA, and FISC. I gave you a synopsis of those laws. Please read them.

    2. The limiter on this are the abuses and illegal activities the DOJ/FBI have done the application of #1. You've been given at least 10 references about what those activities are. If you think it's illegal or not is immaterial. Wrongdoing has been established in the courts.

    3. At times there have been requests/orders from the administration to illegally implement the PATRIOT Act to surveil US Citizens that are not part of "International Terrorism" that is required in the PATRIOT Act. This should have been handled by DOJ who should have found appropriate statutes to charge these US Citizens.

    NOTHING ELSE.
    Like I have said numerous times. DOJ/FBI agents do great work. 99% of the agents are not any issue here. Anything beyond the scope of #1 thru #3 are immaterial to the thread.




  47. by HatetheSwamp on April 15, 2024 5:09 am

    Right, OD, on the 99%. It's the 1% who might, in effect, destroy the republic for all intents and purposes.

    My sense of Curt is that he's willing to juice up the 1% like Joe was for the State of the Union address.

    Maybe I'm wrong.


  48. by Curt_Anderson on April 15, 2024 9:22 am
    "And, not federal law enforcement. The FBI yes." --HtS

    The FBI IS a federal law enforcement agency. MAGA like you want to defund them and defund the DOJ which funds local law enforcement.


  49. by HatetheSwamp on April 15, 2024 10:12 am

    Some among GOPs, the home of openness and inclusion, acceptance, tolerance, diversity and freedom, acknowledge that, from the beginning, the FBI has been a corrupt political tool. Those citizens acknowledge that the federal government has a law enforcement function...ICE, as only one example...

    ...but, they'd gut the fibbies and start from scratch.

    Are you really not smart enough to grasp that?


  50. by oldedude on April 15, 2024 11:50 am
    Curt- That has ZERO to do with PATRIOT Act or FISA/FISC.

    And you may have read it wrong.
    It's not the MAGA that are calling for LAW ENFORCEMENT to be defunded. It's YOU. Many sections of the GOP (not necessarily MAGA (Whatever in the fuck you want to call constitutionalists unlike yourself) only want to clean up the DOJ/FBI period. And it's because of the ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, and WRONGFUL Acts done by certain parties of the FBI. I might add that you have doubled down on supporting the illegal acts that have been proven against the FBI.

    You still won't, (or can't) prove otherwise.

    Lead- My view is to actually charge those within the DOJ/FBI/IN as is legal under US Law fully all at once. Send them to federal prison for the accepted term they are supposed to under the law. My bet? They'd clean up really fast! And few of them would ever make it out of prison. Oh well.


  51. by HatetheSwamp on April 15, 2024 12:35 pm

    Interesting, OD.

    Nowhere in this thread have I given my own opinion. I've only responded to Curt's intentional ignorance, or, is it lies?

    The Swamp has us in a place where I don't know who would charge the DOJ, FBI, et.al. crooks. That's the reason for the calls to dissolve the FBI.


  52. by oldedude on April 15, 2024 1:10 pm
    The thing is that they all had a part in this. The CIA did not disclose the lying of the dossier (and some other stuff they rand through 702's and FISC). So we pretty much know either the persons (per se) or we know the director responsible for it, which is just as good because if it's not them, they'll tell the courts who had that information.


  53. by HatetheSwamp on April 15, 2024 1:17 pm

    How can a sensible person of integrity not HatetheSwamp!!!!!?


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