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Law selectors, pages, etc.
Is Trump's fraud a victimless crime?
By Curt_Anderson
January 30, 2024 4:59 pm
Category: Law

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To repeat what I’ve observed any number of times, there are no victims in New York’s hyper-politicized civil fraud case against Trump...After eleven weeks of trial, and still no victims, James upped the disgorgement ante to $370 million. ---Andrew McCarthy in the National Review

McCarthy is not the only conservative to lament that there are no victims to his fraud crimes. Watch FOX News or read the NY Post tomorrow when Judge Engoron is expected to render a decision. I would dispute that Trump's fraud didn't result in any victims. They may not have come forward or even realized they were victims. People who presented honest evaluations to the banks but were denied loans might have a gripe. I suspect that the banks that were defrauded decided it would not be a good look to admit they were duped.

McCarthy, much like his conservative brethren, isn't exactly consistent when it comes to victimless crimes. For example, McCarthy wrote, "we weren’t saying that marijuana was not a crime". It's not crime here in Oregon, Andy. Who is hurt when adults indulge in a little weed?

Depending upon the jurisdiction, besides recreational drug use, prostitution, assisted suicide, gambling and public drunkenness are considered crimes---victimless crimes---but crimes nonetheless. We can agree to disagree whether or not society should allow certain activities.

There isn't much debate that driving faster than the speed limit is a crime regardless of whether or not it results in an accident.



The good news that all those people who say Trump's fraud is a victimless crime are at least admitting that it is a crime.






Cited and related links:

  1. nationalreview.com

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Comments on "Is Trump's fraud a victimless crime?":

  1. by HatetheSwamp on January 30, 2024 5:26 pm

    McCarthy is not the only conservative to lament that there are no victims to his fraud crimes. Watch FOX News...

    C'mon Curt. Give us a freakinfrigginEFFINbreak.

    You?

    The authority on what happens on Fox News!!!!

    Who'd you think you're foolin?

    YOU are "that feckless dementia-ridden piece of crap's" quintessential "lyin dog-faced pony soldier!"


  2. by Curt_Anderson on January 30, 2024 5:27 pm
    No, I am an authority on what WILL happen on Fox News


  3. by HatetheSwamp on January 30, 2024 5:30 pm

    Then,... YoudaEFFINfreakinfrigginMAN!


  4. by oldedude on January 31, 2024 5:29 am
    Curt, I think its pretty funny how you rationalize your hatred towards trumpster.

    I would dispute that Trump's fraud didn't result in any victims. They may not have come forward or even realized they were victims.
    Regardless of the evaluation(s) (because in loans there are a multitude of issues and "evaluations"), it seems like with a person of trumpsters wealth, credit history, "KYC" (know your customer requirements set forth by the PATRIOT Act), and a multitude of other things THEY chose to take the risk for the loans.

    People who presented honest evaluations to the banks but were denied loans might have a gripe. I suspect that the banks that were defrauded decided it would not be a good look to admit they were duped.
    You're thinking he's in the same class as you or me trying to get a deal on a car loan? Are you kidding? If it weren't so sad, it would be funny.

    Depending upon the jurisdiction, besides recreational drug use, prostitution, assisted suicide, gambling and public drunkenness are considered crimes---victimless crimes---but crimes nonetheless. We can agree to disagree whether or not society should allow certain activities.
    In areas where there are crimes against all the crimes you spoke of, the governments (ergo the people) feel that many of those things are intrinsically linked with crimes. The illicit drug trade is linked with homicides (or homiecides), human trafficking, human slavery, higher death rates among participants, and a much higher cost to the government and tax base. "Drunkenness" produces victims when people drive drunk, or the number of bar fights, etc. These have a direct correlation with act and crime.

    It's interesting this is now a conservative issue. The courts in Califorication disagree with you. They regard ALL financial crime as victimless. So your good l'il german is on the wrong side of this one. You'd better watch out if you don't want to be outed as not following "the truth."


  5. by HatetheSwamp on January 31, 2024 6:07 am

    Curt, I think its pretty funny how you rationalize your hatred towards trumpster.

    It's kneeslappin funny.

    Curt fancies himself a school of what goes on on the right. BAHA! He's repeatedly referred to FOX AND FRIENDS, Steve Doocy, as a Fox News conservative when the truth is that Doocy and Brian Kilmeade are often all but at each other's throats.

    In this thread he represents pb's Legal Goober #3, Andy McCarthy, as, essentially, Sean Hannity with a law degree.

    Bang on. Kneeslappingly funny!


  6. by oldedude on January 31, 2024 8:27 am
    I'm not that fond of Kilmeade, and Doocy is a good guy for a morning show of tricks and puppets. It's like saying the "today" show has legal experts in it. Or that joy Bahar is a Constitutional Scholar. Obviously, he's not choosing his targets well.


  7. by HatetheSwamp on January 31, 2024 9:50 am

    Yeah, I'm not big on Kilmeade, either. Doocy is a nice guy...perfect for a morning show.


  8. by Indy! on January 31, 2024 10:01 am

    So let me see if I have this straight... OD - the alleged military guy - is not only okay with lying when it suits him, he's also perfectly fine with criminal activity when it is committed by his orange baby man hero. Good to know. 👍

    =========================================

    Curt, you know who is a victim of marijuana laws? EVERYBODY. Marijuana and hemp laws affect the price of all kinds of everyday items from textiles to paper to prescription drugs. Plus they lead to environmental degradation through unnecessary production and use of dangerous chemicals and other things required to manufacture those itema..


  9. by oldedude on January 31, 2024 11:59 am
    I didn't say that, you fucking liar. Did you actually read that? or are on a bad acid trip?🖕

    I was very clear fraud is a crime. You claifornicators (it doesn't matter if you're from there or not, just that you can't bother to see the real world through any true lens. And you don't care about any other human being).

    curt was talking about a "victimless" crime. In this case the victims are the banks. If they get their money, they don't care. If they don't get their money, they'll press charges.

    In the years following Colorado's intro to legalized weed, hickenlooper would allow any other state to come in and he would show them our "stats on the impact of "recreational" weed. The biggest thing was that money was "supposed" to go to schools and drug education. It did but covered only a fraction of the increased level of suspensions and expelled from drugs and guns at school. SB94 funds (a state funding that covers suspended and expulsions) used to be for middle and high school, is now available for elementary schools because of the drugs being brought in to the schools. Homeless camps were up 50%, Driving while impaired and deaths on the roads skyrocketed.

    And then there's this. Authorities say they have arrested five suspects after six people were found shot to death last week in a desert community in San Bernardino County, California.

    Following an investigation, investigators believe the victims had arranged to meet for a marijuana transaction, San Bernardino County Sheriff's officials said. The victims appear to have been involved in criminal activity, authorities said Monday night.

    The victims were shot to death, and four of the six bodies were burned, according to officials. Only three of the victims have been identified by authorities: Baldemar Mondragon-Albarran, Franklin Noel Bonilla and Kevin Dariel Bonilla.

    msn.com


  10. by Indy! on January 31, 2024 5:11 pm

    AAAAAAAAAAAH-HA-HA-HA... now Odorous thinks marijuana transactions lead to murder. The "cartel expert" who just repeats whatever paranoid rants Fox comes up with to keep his ass planted in the chair with his eyes glued to whatever dumb blond is repeating this crap.


    curt was talking about a "victimless" crime. In this case the victims are the banks. If they get their money, they don't care. If they don't get their money, they'll press charges.

    So you're okay with crime as long as the banks don't come after a former president because it might create another wingnut boycott of their banks. This tells us you ARE perfectly fine with criminal activity just like your other statements did. And if you think that's not proof - try to keep in mind we are now using the ODOROUS STANDARD for "proof" - the same one you use for me when you're LYING about my family and making up shit I never said. oh yeah - that military code did a lot of good for you.


  11. by oldedude on January 31, 2024 6:06 pm
    I thought it was pretty clear to anyone that could read on a second grade level, that MSN said that. Oh. that's right. "art" "student" I rest my case.


  12. by oldedude on January 31, 2024 6:18 pm
    Oh, I don't lie about your family. And I only mention it when you're a dikead. Which is about 99% of the time, so you decide how you want to play this. Your move.


  13. by Indy! on February 1, 2024 7:25 pm

    Comical - now lying when he's trying to convince us he's not a liar. It doesn't get any funnier - and in a way - sadder.


  14. by oldedude on February 2, 2024 7:11 am
    And yet when your "cartel buddies" say "Hey, bring around the pass-around pack!" mommy brings you.


    You can't stop yourself, can you.


  15. by Indy! on February 2, 2024 8:36 am

    Your twisted sexual perversions would not be nearly so obvious if only you could find the internal fortitude required to stop talking about them, Old Dud. Too bad your (alleged) military training failed in that respect in the same way it failed on the lying and support for criminal activity.


  16. by oldedude on February 2, 2024 10:30 am
    Is that like you're "alleged" "art" career that you started by "answering" an ad from a comic book princess?

    I'm sure you consider saving lives is beneath you, and YUUCK you have to actually have contact with little brown and black people! but I that's what I did.


  17. by Indy! on February 2, 2024 10:50 am

    When you're not trying to inject your pedophilic perversions into the conversation, you are a wellspring of comic takes, OD - I'll give you that. While it is true I don't have much contact with little brown and black people - that's only because I live in an adults only condo which means my brown and black (and all the other colors of the rainbow) neighbors have to be 55 or older. The good news for you is you have a solid excuse too - living in a lily white town like you have your entire time on this earth. And no - sorry, shooting them from a distance with your AR-15 only counted as “contact” while you were (allegedly) in the military.


  18. by oldedude on February 2, 2024 1:38 pm
    You have no idea where I live. So quit lying your used little arse off. It's needed for your mommy to barter out.


  19. by Indy! on February 2, 2024 7:25 pm

    You told us you live near Tampa, but to be fair you do have a penchant for lying so maybe that wasn't true. You can clarify that if you like or I'll just keep assuming that's where you live - in one of the lily-white burgs (most likely a trailer park) outside of Tampa / St. Pete.


  20. by oldedude on February 3, 2024 7:26 am
    I just wanted to add a bit to get back on track.

    Curt, in the thread headline. I would dispute that Trump's fraud didn't result in any victims. They may not have come forward or even realized they were victims.
    Regardless of the evaluation(s) (because in loans there are a multitude of issues and "evaluations"), it seems like with a person of trumpsters wealth, credit history, "KYC" (know your customer requirements set forth by the PATRIOT Act), and a multitude of other things THEY chose to take the risk for the loans.
    If the bank doesn't get it's money, it's chargeable. Just like if you have skewed "estimates" in your car loan. If you pay it off, you don't get caught (like that time you drove while "impaired" and didn't get caught). IF you don't pay it back, the bank can take legal recourse. If you do, I think it's "victimless." Those usually aren't charged, unless there's a corruption (money laundering, etc) but you wouldn't charge the fraud, you'd charge the money laundering, layering, etc.


  21. by Curt_Anderson on February 3, 2024 9:19 am
    In some situations, if a job, applicant embellishes their résumé, it could be illegal. For example, if they included falsified diplomas that would be illegal. If the company had them fill out a form, which when signed would constitute a legal document, and they lied on it, that would be illegal.

    So imagine the situation where somebody gets a job under false pretenses and actually does a good job. If they were ever exposed, they could still be in legal hot water.

    The victims of that crime include but not limited to other applicants, who honestly earned their diplomas and credentials, but did not get the job.


  22. by oldedude on February 4, 2024 1:56 am
    curt- everything you said, I agree with. That's a very different subject than the post though. Is it "illegal" to lie on a job application? You could argue both ways. Does the company have the right to terminate your employment? Sure.

    Most of the jobs I've had don't get axed by the application, they get axed by the background check/ clearance update. Getting into the federal government from college was a big one. The question "did you ever smoke weed?" they say no, and their social media shows them with hitting off a bong. Oops! they're gone as a security risk.

    And to differ with your perspective, the victim is the company. You're not lying to the other people. You're lying to the company.

    Regarding lying on loans. Given the number of loans in the US at pretty much any time since, say the 1970's, there is no LEA in the country that will touch a fraud unless the banks file. That's way too chickenshit to get into the bank's business.

    Yet again, are you talking about "money laundering per. se? That's a different story. and different charges. Are they using the money for illicit purposes (such as a pyramid scheme and committing fraud on the investors)? That's a different story also.

    AND you're "assuming" that banks don't have their own investigators that are paid to catch problems like this. That's why the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) was designed. Large financial institutions (meaning banks, casinos, real estate firms, etcetcetc) usually have their own people to catch this. Thusly, the SAR is born! The SAR is also a collective that also protects the banking system from scam artists that bank hop.

    I know you're really trying to say that trumpster violated every law on the books, and that he needs to go under the jail. I think it's a stretch. At best. The bank got their money back. With interest. If you haven't got anything better than this, just give it up and look for something worthwhile.

    If the dims were doing this to pedojoe, I'd say the same thing. If we're down to that chickenshit "justice" system, move to China, they're much freer.


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