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Military selectors, pages, etc.
Hey Donna (po), the invitation's still open...
By HatetheSwamp
October 31, 2023 5:51 am
Category: Military

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Three SS posters, by my count, have explicitly stated that they are concerned with evil on both sides of the Hamas/Israel conflict, i.e., OD and pb and Donna.

Based on the SS posts I've read, two of us are scrupulous in linking to data from reliable and reasonably unbiased journalistic sources. Those two being OD and pb.

A few days ago, pb invited Donna to link our little community to articles or videos, from reliable sources, which detail the Israeli atrocities that concern Donna.

Crickets.

pb understands that, these days especially, SS has numerous threads going at the same time and it is not reasonable to think that every poster reads every post in every thread.

So, Donna.

Because two others of us explicitly share your concern about every evil committed by anyone in this conflict, I issue the invitation once again.

Please make us aware of those reports, FROM RELIABLE AND REASONABLY UNBIASED SOURCES, of atrocities committed by Israel.

Using the sources I use, to this point, I have not found any. OD hasn't posted any, either.

All of us bring our preferences and prejudices to every moment of our lives. What's valuable, to those of us who seek truth, is to be confronted by fact that challenges what we want to be true...

So, again, Donna. Enlighten us.

Comments Start Below


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Comments on "Hey Donna (po), the invitation's still open...":

  1. by Donna on October 31, 2023 6:13 am

    I support Jewish Voice For Peace.

    “Not in Our Name”: 400 Arrested at Jewish-Led Sit-in at NYC’s Grand Central Demanding Gaza Ceasefire

    Israel is intensifying its aerial bombardment and ground invasion of Gaza. Palestinian officials say the death toll has topped 8,300, including over 3,400 children. On Friday, Israeli ground troops, backed by tanks and armored bulldozers, entered Gaza amidst a communication blackout that cut off contact, electricity and cellular service between Gaza and the rest of the world. Communications have now been partially restored.

    On Friday, the U.N. General Assembly overwhelmingly voted in support of a humanitarian truce, but Israel and the United States voted against the resolution.

    Massive demonstrations calling for a ceasefire in Gaza continued this weekend, including here in New York City. On Friday night, thousands of members of Jewish Voice for Peace-New York City and their allies shut down the main terminal of Grand Central Station during rush hour. It’s the largest sit-in protest the city has seen in over two decades. Many wore shirts that said “Not in Our Name” Banners were unfurled, reading, “Palestinians should be free” and “Israelis demand ceasefire now.” One sign read, “Never again for anyone.” The multiracial, intergenerational movement says about 400 people were arrested, including rabbis, famous actors and elected officials.

    Democracy Now! was there.


    democracynow.org


  2. by HatetheSwamp on October 31, 2023 6:29 am

    Thanks, Donna.

    Israel is a republic. It empowers free speech. Within Israel there's a legitimate peace movement, even today. It's why many here love and support Israel.

    But,...c'mon man, gimme a break!

    ...ATROCITIES!

    Reports of Israeli behavior akin to the beheading of babies. The slaughter of the elderly too infirm to serve as hostages. The gang rape of women prior to their murder. The mass murder of people attending an open air concert.

    Atrocities.


  3. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 6:37 am

    Questions and Answers on Israel’s Use of White Phosphorus in Gaza and Lebanon

    Human Rights Watch has determined based on verified video and witness accounts that Israeli forces used white phosphorus in military operations in Lebanon and Gaza on October 10 and 11, 2023, respectively. The videos show multiple airbursts of artillery-fired white phosphorus over the Gaza City port and two rural locations along the Israel-Lebanon border.

    White phosphorus, which can be used as a smokescreen or a weapon, has the potential to cause civilian harm due to the severe burns it causes and its lingering long-term effects on survivors. Its use in densely populated areas of Gaza violates the requirement under international humanitarian law that parties to the conflict take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian injury and loss of life. It also highlights the need to reexamine the status and adequacy of Protocol III of the Convention on Conventional Weapons (CCW), currently the only international law dedicated to governing incendiary weapons.



    UN experts say Israel's strikes on Gaza amount to 'collective punishment'

    GENEVA, Oct 12 (Reuters) - A group of independent United Nations experts on Thursday condemned violence against civilians in Israel and deplored the "collective punishment" of reprisal strikes against Gaza.

    While condemning the "horrific crimes committed by Hamas", the group said that Israel had resorted to "indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza".

    "They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for," the group, which includes several U.N. special rapporteurs, said in a statement.



    Damning evidence of war crimes as Israeli attacks wipe out entire families in Gaza

    As Israeli forces continue to intensify their cataclysmic assault on the occupied Gaza Strip, Amnesty International has documented unlawful Israeli attacks, including indiscriminate attacks, which caused mass civilian casualties and must be investigated as war crimes.

    The organization spoke to survivors and eyewitnesses, analysed satellite imagery, and verified photos and videos to investigate air bombardments carried out by Israeli forces between 7 and 12 October, which caused horrific destruction, and in some cases wiped out entire families. Here the organization presents an in-depth analysis of its findings in five of these unlawful attacks. In each of these cases, Israeli attacks violated international humanitarian law, including by failing to take feasible precautions to spare civilians, or by carrying out indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between civilians and military objectives, or by carrying out attacks that may have been directed against civilian objects.

    “In their stated intent to use all means to destroy Hamas, Israeli forces have shown a shocking disregard for civilian lives. They have pulverized street after street of residential buildings killing civilians on a mass scale and destroying essential infrastructure, while new restrictions mean Gaza is fast running out of water, medicine, fuel and electricity. Testimonies from eyewitness and survivors highlighted, again and again, how Israeli attacks decimated Palestinian families, causing such destruction that surviving relatives have little but rubble to remember their loved ones by,” said Agnčs Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.



    ICC Prosecutor: Israel May Be Committing War Crime by ‘Impeding’ Gaza Aid

    Israel may be committing a war crime by restricting the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza, International Criminal Court prosecutor Karim Khan said Sunday.

    Khan spoke to the press from Cairo after a visit to the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt, where he said he saw trucks filled with supplies "stuck where nobody needs them."

    "Impeding relief supplies as provided by the Geneva Conventions may constitute a crime within the court's jurisdiction," Khan told reporters in a video of the conference posted on social media. "And I want to underline clearly to Israel that there must be discernible efforts without further delay to make sure civilians receive basic food, medicine, anesthetics, morphine."

    During his remarks, Khan also implied that Hamas may have breached international law with its actions during its October 7 attack on Israel, noting that hostage-taking is a specific offense under the Rome Statue of the Geneva Conventions.

    "I call for the immediate release of all hostages taken from Israel and for their safe return to their families," Khan said.

    Throughout his speech, the prosecutor emphasized the importance of protecting civilians during war.

    "The fact that innocent civilians are trapped under the weight of the war they cannot escape and which is not their fault is not tenable," he said.

    He also argued that the international community should not simply accept the horrors of war, especially when visited upon civilians, as a "fait accompli."

    "We cannot and must not lose sight of the fact that there are laws that govern the conduct of hostilities," he said. "There's no blank check."

    hrw.org
    reuters.com
    amnesty.org
    commondreams.org


  4. by HatetheSwamp on October 31, 2023 6:58 am

    Reliable sources, po.

    Confirm this from the WSJ, National Review, The Hill, heck. Even CNN!!!!!

    This is exactly what I mean.

    All of us bring our preferences and prejudices to every moment of our lives. It's what we do with our preferences and prejudices that makes us seekers of truth.

    pb came across a gruesome story about Hamas taking an infant from its mother's arms and cooking it in an oven making the mother listen to its screams. Horrible!

    A story that'd make your white phosphorus story seem silly.

    Thing is. Only questionable sources are reporting it. I'd'a loved to enter a thread on the story and I could have done that...with links, as you just did.

    The difference between Donna and you and OD and pb is that we seek truth and encourage you to embrace it.

    I looked for your white phosphorus story among reliable journalistic sources. Nuthin.

    But, please. Find a link...from a source reasonable people respect. And, I'll join you in denouncing it.


  5. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 7:19 am

    So is it your contention, Bill, that if those four organizations don't cover something, it didn't happen? International human rights organizations are all full ofshit? They don't know anything about human rights abuses?


  6. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 7:21 am

    No reasonable people believe anything from human rights organizations?


  7. by HatetheSwamp on October 31, 2023 7:26 am

    po,

    It's my contention that if this happened, CNN WOULD HAVE REPORTED IT. And, the Wall Street Journal. And, National Review. And, The Hill.

    Explain to me your understanding, if this really happened: WHY WOULD CNN, et.al., COVER IT UP?

    Convince me that there's a cover-up taking place and I'll believe.


  8. by Donna on October 31, 2023 9:14 am

    I'd never dismiss any of the Israeli victims' claims as "silly", as you just did with regards to reports of Israel's use of white phosphorus, Hts. This is an example of why I don't enjoy conversing with you.

    Biden has reportedly been trying to talk sense into Netanyahoo, but Bibi seems determined to proceed with a course of action that will bring worldwide condemnation to Israel and possibly amnesia about Hamas's horrendous deadly attack on Israeli citizens.


  9. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 9:20 am

    "It's my contention that if this happened, CNN WOULD HAVE REPORTED IT." -Hate


    Okay. You can gofuckyourself now Bill....

    cnn.com


  10. by HatetheSwamp on October 31, 2023 9:29 am

    I'd never dismiss any of the Israeli victims' claims as "silly", as you just did with regards to reports of Israel's use of white phosphorus,...

    Bullfernerner.

    Even CNN didn't report the white phosphorus story. So, either CNN is joining in a cover-up, is incompetent, or the extremely biased media outlets that made the claim reported fake news.

    I've made the judgment that the fake news possibility is the most likely. I "dismissed" nuthin. I may change my mind if more information becomes available.

    It's for the same reason I didn't link to the "Hamas killed a baby in an oven and made the mother listen to its screams" story. I judged that also to be a juicy story, but fake news.

    Why, if this happened, do you suppose that CNN didn't report it!!!!!?

    (BTW, The Hill reported that the white phosphorus claim was made but was unable to report it as an actual event.)


  11. by Donna on October 31, 2023 9:35 am

    In the fog of war, there is little that's ever proved, and when something is proved, often it doesn't come out until years later.

    Btw, the US used white phosphorus in Fallujah and reportedly some civilians were injured or killed by it.


  12. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 9:35 am

    "Even CNN didn't report the white phosphorus story."

    Yes they did, Bill. You stupid willfully blind pig-ignorant moron.

    Just gonna ignore that I posted what you asked for, eh? Classic MAGA Republican twat.


  13. by Donna on October 31, 2023 9:39 am

    CNN didn't conclude anything, but they reported on reports about Israel's alleged use of WP in Gaza.


  14. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 9:51 am

    Well he's just gonna ghost the hell outta this thread now.....


  15. by Indy! on October 31, 2023 9:53 am

    It's comical anyone believes CNN doesn't shade their "truths" according to their corporate masters' wills. They're not providing a public service with their... ahem... "news". They are disseminating the propaganda of the "official record" - laying the groundwork of the "history" the victors will claim as the "truth" in the aftermath.


  16. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 10:00 am

    "It's comical anyone believes CNN doesn't shade their "truths" according to their corporate masters' wills." -Indy!

    No kidding. Like how their focus on this specific issue was how Israel denies that they did it. But they are at least reporting on what the human rights organizations have found evidence of.


  17. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 10:10 am

    So Bill... You gave us an invitation that Donna and I accepted... And now you're not even going to come to your own party???


  18. by HatetheSwamp on October 31, 2023 10:19 am

    Yes they did, Bill. You stupid willfully blind pig-ignorant moron.

    Link?


  19. by HatetheSwamp on October 31, 2023 10:31 am

    It's comical anyone believes CNN doesn't shade their "truths" according to their corporate masters' wills. They're not providing a public service with their... ahem... "news".

    Bingo.

    Among all the SS posters these days, only OD and pb cite sources for the news they report from sources unsympathetic to their own view.

    I splained that, when the white phosphorus story came up, I looked at who reported it, how they reported it...and who didn't...

    ...and, I was clear that I made a judgment that, based on data, that's it's unlikely that it happened.

    What distinguishes OD and pb from po, in particular, and Donna, is that po found unreliable news sources which are inclined to pass on Hamas propaganda and linked to them.

    I understand what propaganda is. I was unconvinced. I remain unconvinced.

    I get it that evil is pervasive in these times. But, I also get it that, from the beginning, Donna and po have gone out of the way to paint Israel as villain and Hamas as victim.

    That's my judgment, anyway...based in evidence.


  20. by oldedude on October 31, 2023 11:12 am
    I splained that, when the white phosphorus story came up, I looked at who reported it, how they reported it...and who didn't...

    ...and, I was clear that I made a judgment that, based on data, that's it's unlikely that it happened.


    I looked at the explosions that were "evidence." They weren't WP. WP has a specific profile. I'm also not expecting anyone else on this site to be able to see the difference. Not a slam to anyone. Those were HE (High Explosive) rounds. So I didn't get in to that fray.


    I get it that evil is pervasive in these times. But, I also get it that, from the beginning, Donna and po have gone out of the way to paint Israel as villain and Hamas as victim.
    I made this distinction a couple of times regarding asymmetrical warfare. That is where one army is vastly outpowered by a superior force. The lessor army (usually terrorist or guerilla forces) against a well organized standing army. The lessor forces use propaganda as a tool of war, and expected Hamas to do that (and to be careful to watch for it.

    I believe Israel has done a stellar job in not murdering civilians. I also think things are going to get dicey when they have to take out the catacomb under the hospital. We'll see though.

    As I've said. Hamas and the government of the Gaza has zero regard for their own people. They actually want them to die. To be blown up and bodies scattered. They will use that against the Israelis, although they may have done it themselves. I'm leaving all options open at this point.


  21. by HatetheSwamp on October 31, 2023 11:26 am

    I believe Israel has done a stellar job in not murdering civilians. I also think things are going to get dicey when they have to take out the catacomb under the hospital. We'll see though.

    I share that belief...and, I think that the two of us bring a commitment to discern the facts out of this convoluted mess of circumstances.

    Donna and po seemed intent on blaming Israel for whatever they could, from the beginning.

    In the end, though, it's what the Biden administration concludes is fact that matters. They know far more than any of us ever will and they seem to think that Israel is doing a difficult task with as much sense and compassion for the innocent as is possible.

    That must drive the SS woke crowd crazy.


  22. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 1:17 pm

    I see that you're trying extra hard to goad me into another argument by lying about me. You use that tactic often, almost daily. I just feel sad that you're apparently so bored and lonely that you resort to that so often. I recommend seeing a therapist.





  23. by Donna on October 31, 2023 1:18 pm

    Mine ^


  24. by Ponderer on October 31, 2023 5:16 pm

    "Link?" -Hate

    Comment #9 in this thread, Bill. I wish you paid attention.


  25. by oldedude on October 31, 2023 8:32 pm
    It's my contention that if this happened, CNN WOULD HAVE REPORTED IT. And, the Wall Street Journal. And, National Review. And, The Hill.

    Explain to me your understanding, if this really happened: WHY WOULD CNN, et.al., COVER IT UP?

    Convince me that there's a cover-up taking place and I'll believe.

    jjpo Okay. You can gofuckyourself now Bill....


    The propaganda machine against the Jews would have had this already in Hitleresque goose step with you and the other little jew hating germans. So that's what you showed.

    Not an answer, and your "cite" wasn't either. Just in case you didn't hear, looking out of your pink princess palace pentacle is a good thing.


  26. by oldedude on October 31, 2023 8:56 pm
    So here's some questions I'd like you io cite.
    Just for your info, you've got two countries you hate because of humanitarian violations (Saudi Arabia and China), and you're taking their word for a humanitarian issue? That's just fucking stupid. Why is Saudi doing this? because pedojoe will still give them weapons, and be their little bitch for oil. The Chinese? He owes them for all the kickbacks they've paid him. Including the diamond they "gave" to cunthunter.

    Faisal bin Farhan Al-Saud (prime minister) is a long-time part of the close al Saud family. He's trusted and my guess is that he knows where Khashoggi's ground up body was shredded into the ground, and may have arranged it.

    Faisal said Saudi Arabia "condemns all attacks on civilians and opposes Israel's forcible relocation of Gaza residents outside the region," according to the statement.
    Please cite where the Israeli government have forced the Gaza residents to relocate.

    He urged humanitarian aid and said Saudi Arabia is willing to work with China to "promote all parties to abide by international humanitarian law, protect civilians from harm, and implement relevant Security Council resolutions on the Palestinian issue."
    first, it's been Hamas that hasn't abided by international humanitarian law, protect civilians from harm, and implement relevant Security Council resolutions.

    China's Wang Yi said that Israel's actions have "gone beyond the scope of self-defense," the statement said.

    Please cite. What have they done to "go beyond the scope of self-defense"

    Seriously, if you give this information, and flip like a wet fish, I'll call you on it.


  27. by HatetheSwamp on November 1, 2023 4:43 am

    Israel denies using white phosphorus in Gaza and Lebanon after Human Rights Watch claim

    Ahhhhhhhhhhh.

    So, po. Where does CNN report that Israel used white phosphorus!!!!!?

    If anything, CNN acknowledged your wacko news outlet without reporting that Israel used white phosphorus.

    Here's where the fact that all of us bring our preferences and prejudices to every moment of our lives comes into play.

    The same source that lied about Israel bombing a hospital and killing 500 reported the white phosphorus story and, because of your preferences and prejudices, your EFFINbigotry...your virulent antisemitism, you proclaim the lie to be true.

    Ye must repent.


  28. by Ponderer on November 1, 2023 6:02 am

    Oh I get it now! Not only do I have to present you with sources that you deem "reliable", but anything that I post on using your approved media site as a source must have its own reporters on the ground reporting only what they themselves see and know conclusively all about.

    And what you apparently don't get is how reporting and journalism actually works. Which explains a lot. But then this is exactly the response that I was fully expecting from a fuckingasshole of a twat who can never admit that he was wrong, such as yourself, Bill.


    I gave you exactly what you asked for, from a source that you yourself requested! It proved you to be wrong in your assertion that that source hadn't reported on what I was talking about, so now you're embarrassed and butt-hurt, whining like a baby soaking in a diaper full of your own stinkingshit. And again as predicted, you're now pathetically trying to deflect the agonizing shame of your easily avoided stupidity onto me instead of on yourself where it fully 100% belongs.

    You must gofuckyourself.


  29. by HatetheSwamp on November 1, 2023 6:23 am

    Bullfernerner, po.

    You couldn't have gotten farther from what I asked for.

    CNN noted that the Anti-Israel source HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, reported that the IDF used white phosphorus.

    As I already noted, The Hill reported on that unverified HRW claim. The reporting of HRW spouting Hamas propaganda was on CNN. Heck, it was all over the media.

    Now, show us any verified report that Israel used white phosphorus.

    It's okay. We know. Baha baha keehee haha!


  30. by HatetheSwamp on November 1, 2023 6:25 am

    BTW, po. While you're at it, dig up a verified report that Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people. Baha.


  31. by oldedude on November 1, 2023 7:51 am
    So at the beginning of this, I almost fell for Donna and jjpo actually caring about Israelis and Jews. They said what they said and I thought that was the end of it. I didn't think they were truthful, but that pretty much goes with them. Especially jjpo. Had they just shut **** up, it wouldn't be a thing. But every time they opened their mouths, they went further in. And further. And further.

    and jjpo couldn't even be original. She had to steal my thoughts, twist them and lie about them to make herself feel better about useless life.

    What I've seen is they're nothing more than useful idiots for terrorism and the anti- US agenda. One already said she'd burn down buildings and only reneged when shamed into it. I could easily see them giving aid and comfort to Radical Islamic and antifada cells. Maybe helping them across the border, holding guns, ammunition, and explosives, etc. They would justify their acts because "we're not pulling the trigger," when in fact they just as guilty of the deaths and heinous acts of the people they're giving aid to.


  32. by HatetheSwamp on November 1, 2023 8:26 am

    Interesting because I don't recall po claiming to care about the Israelis...only Donna.

    With Donna, I think Donna's anxious to uncritically believe Hamas propaganda which places the Jews in a bad light.

    It does bother me that Donna was veeerrrrrry, veeerrrrrry slow to express compassion for the victims of the torture and rape and murder but I think that they get their news from biased, antisemite sources. They may not really have known about the atrocities until our fellow SSers reported it.


  33. by oldedude on November 1, 2023 11:26 am
    I guess to clarify, it was jjpo that made a big deal about it. Donna was just silent and let jjpo do her talking.

    I do agree about the single side of it. So far that have been a couple of arrests by the Bureau with terrorism charges against Palestinian supporters threatening Jews and synagogues.

    msn.com
    msn.com


  34. by Indy! on November 3, 2023 6:53 pm

    CNN probably didn't report it because it was actually news.


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