Post: Anybody here use Eliquis, Jardiance, Januvia, Farx

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Anybody here use Eliquis, Jardiance, Januvia, Farxiga, Entresto, Enbrel, Imbruvica, Stelara, NovoLog or Fiasp?

By Curt_Anderson
August 29, 2023 1:18 pm
Category: Medical

(5.0 from 1 vote)
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Here are the first 10 drugs the government will negotiate lower prices for to cut Medicare costs
President Joe Biden's administration on Tuesday released a list of 10 drugs for which the federal government will take a first-ever step: negotiating drug prices directly with the manufacturer.

The move is expected to cut costs for some patients, but faces litigation from the drug makers and heavy criticism from Republican lawmakers, and it will be years before consumers notice any savings.

Cited and related links:

nbcwashington.com

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Comments on "Anybody here use Eliquis, Jardiance, Januvia, Farxiga, Entresto, Enbrel, Imbruvica, Stelara, NovoLog or Fiasp?":

by Indy! on August 29, 2023 2:26 pm

A weak step that will face a lot of opposition. If it does pass, it probably won't go into effect for a decade. The easier, far more effective answer? Change the law that if we can buy it cheaper from another country - we're allowed to do it. IOW... the classic free market. It's a win for drug manufacturers too because they will mostly only be facing their own multi-level pricing.

by Ponderer on August 29, 2023 5:28 pm

It's a good idea to start slow at first. Like Indy! said, the companies aren't gonna like anything and they will have some sort of a cow or other. Starting at full speed right off the bat is a recipe for disaster.

"Change the law that if we can buy it cheaper from another country - we're allowed to do it." -Indy!

Hmmm. Well... perhaps Biden could use that idea as an olive branch to offer the American pharmaceutical companies...? They would certainly love him if he were to do such a thing. Or... how about if Biden put a tariff on domestic pharmaceutical companies! Oh they'd be overjoyed!

by Ponderer on August 29, 2023 5:31 pm

By the way, Curt. I ain't on none o' them.

But I guess enough people must be to make all the prime time commercials worth the money. HEY! Maybe they won't have so much money for all the advertising and we won't see so many of them...?

by Donna on August 30, 2023 9:28 am

Most of the Rx drugs I take are already covered 100% by Humana, my Medicare Advantage carrier. I pay a nominal fee for my hypothyroid med, and I had to pay $20 or $30 out of pocket for a couple of extra-strength antibiotics to treat a staph infection I probably picked up at a medical facility where I had a test performed over a year ago.

The drugs that are slated to have their prices reduced via price negotiation probably aren't as commonly used as the ones I take, but I recognize most of them from TV ads. I'm guessing that all of them are fairly expensive and aren't currently being subsidized adequately by insurance companies. In any case, I laud all efforts to reduce the cost of Rx drugs regardless of how widespread they're prescribed.

by Indy! on August 30, 2023 7:39 pm

The pharmaceuticals aren't supposed to like Biden, Pondy. If they do - that's a sure sign Biden is doing something wrong. We don't owe them anything. In fact, we pay for their R&D and protect their patents far longer than is necessary. They are making billions of dollars based on charging people who are sick. It's a twisted reality here in America that does not exist in other countries. Since when did it become okay to hold a person's health hostage because they can't afford to pay for a necessary drug? In a civilized country - which we are definitely not - the government would pay for that person's healthcare. When you were sick you would go to a doctor, the doctor would treat you with whatever is necessary - equipment, people, drugs - whatever - and then the person would either go home to rest and recover or go to a hospital that would care for them properly at no cost out of their pockets other than their taxes. Fuck the pharmaceuticals and the healthcare and health insurance industries. They are not our friends, they are not helping this country, Biden should not be afraid of them - they should be afraid of us.

by Donna on August 30, 2023 8:19 pm

I agree with all of that and have been preaching that for years here. But from the perspective of pharmaceuticals and the healthcare and health insurance industries, why should they be afraid of us? What's our "or else"?

by Donna on August 30, 2023 8:37 pm

This is a piece published by Open Secrets on July 13, 2021:

President Joe Biden signed an executive order last Friday directing the Food and Drug Administration to import lower-priced drugs from Canada in his attempt to limit Big Pharma and lower costs of prescription drugs.

Under former President Donald Trump, the FDA outlined two plans to import prescription drugs from Canada. However, the FDA hasn�t approved a request from Florida, which was the only state to formally ask for permission to import prescription drugs from Canada in 2019.

Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, a trade organization that spent roughly $8.6 million on lobbying in the first quarter of 2021, sued to block the policy proposals to import lower-priced prescription drugs. Canada has also hinted that they will oppose large-scale exports.

The Pharmaceuticals and Health Products Industry spent about $92 million on lobbying in the first quarter of the year, more than any other industry.

The executive order also requests the Department of Health and Human Services to boost support for generic and biosimilar drugs as well as to develop a plan to fight off �price gouging.�

The crackdown on Big Pharma from the executive branch also comes as a new House report targets 14 pharmaceutical companies for spending more on stock buybacks and dividends than they did on research and development over a five-year period. The 14 companies spent a combined $31 million in the first quarter of 2021 on lobbying.

The House report said numerous drug companies were spending a significant percent of their research and development to suppress generic and biosimilar competition instead of on innovative research, while still raising prices of their drugs.

When The Hill asked the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America to respond to the report, the organization pointed to data that indicated drug prices declined slightly in 2020 when rebates pharmaceutical companies pay negotiators are considered.

�While we can�t speak to specific examples cited in the report, this partisan exercise is clearly designed to garner support for an extreme bill that will erode Medicare protections and access to treatments for seniors,� said Brian Newell, a Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, told The Hill.

Pfizer Inc. spent the most of the 14 companies on lobbying, and was the second biggest spender in the Pharmaceuticals and Health Products Industry, at about $3.7 million. Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America was the top spender.

The report, which was published by the House Oversight and Reform Committee, found that the companies spent $56 billion more on stock buybacks and dividends than they did on research and development between 2016 and 2020.

House Democrats are also trying to pass H.R. 3, a bill that would allow the secretary of Health and Human Services to negotiate lower drug prices with companies on behalf of the government.

In a press release last week, Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney (D-N.Y.), chair of the Committee on Oversight and Reform, called out Big Pharma companies for using price increases to boost payouts instead of investing in research and development projects.

�[The] report makes clear that Congress needs to act to rein in out-of-control prescription drug prices,� Maloney said. �Even if the pharmaceutical industry collected less revenue due to reforms such as H.R. 3, drug companies could maintain or even exceed their current levels of [research and development] if they spent less on rewarding shareholders and executives.�
opensecrets.org

by Donna on August 30, 2023 8:41 pm

Then we have this from February 9, 2023:

Court Rejects PhRMA Lawsuit Over Canadian Drug Importation

A federal court has rejected a lawsuit from the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) filed against HHS that would seek to block states from importing prescription drugs from Canada.

At issue is the HHS plan to allow individual states to import costly medications from Canada as a way to lower the price of prescription drugs for seniors.

In a Feb. 6 ruling, Judge Timothy J. Kelly in the District Court for the District of Columbia dismissed PhRMA�s complaint for lack of standing, noting that �no organization, nor any of their members, faces a concrete risk of harm from the inchoate importation program, as is required when suing.�

But PhRMA said its �concerns with the legality of the 2020 drug importation final rule remain unaddressed by the judge�s decision,� as well as the industry group�s belief that the rule threatens public health.

***

Sounds to me like individual states can pass laws legalizing the importation of Rx drugs from Canada. But the piece in my last post says that "Canada has also hinted that they will oppose large-scale exports."

I don't know where this issue stands now, do you?

fdanews.com

by Curt_Anderson on August 30, 2023 8:59 pm
"They are making billions of dollars based on charging people who are sick. It's a twisted reality here in America that does not exist in other countries." --Indy

Isn't that true of a lot of professions and businesses? Doctors, nurses, pharmacists, paramedics and ambulance drivers are all charging sick people--the bastards! Lawyers make money off people who are in legal trouble. Funeral directors make money off dead people.

As for pharmaceutical makers, I guess it doesn't exist as much in the other 250 or so other countries in the world. That's partially because the US produces about 40% of world's pharmaceuticals. China is second with about ten percent. Maybe the other countries don't offer the same opportunities for profit.

There should be some financial incentive to develop drugs, but how much?
A fair question to ask is "what is an acceptable profit margin for the pharmaceutical companies?" The link below lists the margins by industry. See After-tax Unadjusted Operating Margins:
Drugs (Biotechnology) 11.91%
Drugs (Pharmaceutical) 26.74%

pages.stern.nyu.edu

by Donna on August 31, 2023 7:19 am

Curt, hiw do you account for the price of Eliquis being much more expensive in the U.S. than in Europe?

See link below.

statista.com

by Ponderer on August 31, 2023 7:27 am

Curt, you left out those dastardly sociopathic grocery store chains that are making all that Profit off of hungry people!

by Curt_Anderson on August 31, 2023 7:28 am
Donna,
I assume some countries cap the prices of drugs.

by Donna on August 31, 2023 7:58 am

Well that's what we're saying, Curt.

Like it or not, we live in a capitalist society. Given that, of course I'm not opposed to making a profit, but I am opposed to price gouging, which if the pharmaceutical industry hadn't been allowed to buy off Congress, would have been reigned in decades ago and we'd be paying prices for Rx drugs that are reasonable and in line with what individuals and governments in Europe and beyond are paying.

by Donna on August 31, 2023 7:59 am

...And the pharmaceutical corporations would still be making handsome profits.

by Curt_Anderson on August 31, 2023 8:18 am
Donna, I have no idea what Eliquis is prescribed for. Maybe it is an important life saving drug maybe it isn�t. I don�t know if a large portion of the population suffers from whatever disease Eliquis was designed to cure.

But let�s assume that Eliquis is very important to the people who take it. There was probably a good amount of research and development to creating a pill. If the government arbitrarily placed a cap on with the profits of that pill would pharmaceutical companies pursue the cure?

The unintended consequence might be that pharmaceutical companies would avoid risky projects such as attempting to develop a cure for �serious diseases� and focus on cosmetic issues like callus removal.

by Ponderer on August 31, 2023 8:43 am

LOL! You're going to bat for the pharmaceutical corporations like Hts goes to bat for Trump.

Why should Americans get stuck with making up for the loss of drug industry profits in Europe?

"There was probably a good amount of research and development to creating a pill. If the government arbitrarily placed a cap on with the profits of that pill would pharmaceutical companies pursue the cure? The unintended consequence might be that pharmaceutical companies would avoid risky projects such as attempting to develop a cure for �serious diseases� and focus on cosmetic issues like callus removal."

You sound like a Congressman who's on the take from the drug industry.

Did you look at their profit margins? It's silly to suggest that they'd stop making drugs to combat serious diseases if they were prevented from gouging Americans. You're swallowing drug industry propaganda hook, line and sinker.

And btw, I bet you didn't know that a lot of that drug research is conducted at universities.

by Donna on August 31, 2023 8:44 am

Mine ^

by Donna on August 31, 2023 8:48 am

And also btw, Eliquis is used to lower the risk of stroke or a blood clot in people with a heart rhythm disorder called atrial fibrillation. So yes, it's used to treat a life threatening illness.

Maybe someday you'll have to take a drug that you can't afford. Maybe then you'll understand. I hope you don't have to go through that to have a change of heart, though.

by Curt_Anderson on August 31, 2023 9:21 am
Donna,
Actually I have afib. I take low dose aspirin to reduce the risk of blood clots. Neither of my doctors recommended Elliqis.

Yes, I know all about universities developing drugs. My doctor buddies complain about pharmaceutical companies profiting off that research. To be fair though, the drug companies fund that university research.

According to the link below:
"Interestingly, of the 252 new drugs approved by the FDA from 1998 to 2007, approximately 24% originated from University or biotechnology company research and were subsequently transferred to a pharmaceutical or biotechnology company to further the research and develop a product that could be marketed."

I am not saying that drug prices shouldn't be lowered. It seems US consumers are subsidizing the rest of the world. I am just suggesting we should be careful in how we do it. Messing with the laws of supply and demand is fraught with unintended consequences.

If Canada passed a law that all hummingbird related products could not sell for more than $10 some vendors might still sell up there since a smaller profit margin is better than nothing---anyway they can sell them for $20 in the US. But if the US capped the price at $10 it might not be worth the time effort to make Hummy Wands.

brainblogger.com

by Donna on August 31, 2023 4:26 pm

Your response was okay until your last paragraph.

No one has died because they couldn't afford a hummingbird feeder, nor is there a hummingbird feeder lobby that buys off politicians.

by Curt_Anderson on August 31, 2023 4:38 pm
Don�t sell, hummingbird attractants short! I�ve always considered them as an anti-anxiety tool, especially important for those with suicidal tendencies.

But my point was more about economics. We cannot force companies to make a certain drug. So it would counterproductive to eliminate incentives past a certain point.

by Donna on September 4, 2023 9:55 am

Pharmaceuticals are probably the most profitable consumer product on the planet. Your concern that they'll stop research or making drugs if they're prevented from gouging Americans is pretty ridiculous.

by Curt_Anderson on September 4, 2023 11:31 am
Donna,
I don�t have a problem with pharmaceuticals costing less, I have a problem with your proposal of the government capping profits. Better would be to shorten patent protection so generics can compete. Drug patents are good for 20 years after the drug's invention. In most cases, this time frame is halved to 10 years after testing finally brings the drug to the marketplace.

by oldedude on September 4, 2023 9:41 pm
Donna,
Truely, he's naive. If you would ever think the government would EVER accept that (because most of their money comes from big pharma), you'd be stupid. And I don't think you are.

by Indy! on September 5, 2023 1:04 am

Rebates. Good lord. 🙄 You folks are just apologists for an industry killing Americans every day. You�d be the people supporting the Nazis in WWII. I�d say �for pete�s sake they�re baking jewish folks in ovens� and Curt would say �well at least they�re getting free heat in the winter.�

by Donna on September 5, 2023 7:30 am

Generic drugs effectively cap profits too, Curt, so I don't understand how, given your repusion to capping corporate profits that you could think that allowing other companies to steal drug formulations even after ten years is okay.

Why should Americans be singled out for gouging by pharmaceutical corporations?

Should private utility corporations be allowed to set the price for electricity so high that poor people can't afford to heat their homes, Curt?

by Ponderer on September 5, 2023 8:34 am

As Americans, we should be proud of the sacrifice that we are making for the benefit of the rest of the world. U.S. pharmaceutical companies are charging us ten times what they charge other countries for their products. If they didn't make such an obscene Profit off of us, they would have to charge people in all those other countries a lot more than they are having to pay now.

Well, I mean more than their governments are paying. People in other countries don't have to pay much if anything for medications because they have socialized health care. Everyone else on the planet lives in a civilized country. Some day... we may.

So all those foreign countries' governments owe American citizens a deep debt of gratitude. They should be having parades in our honor...

by Curt_Anderson on September 5, 2023 9:07 am
�Generic drugs effectively cap profits too, Curt�� Donna

You are misusing the term �cap�. A cap is what the government puts on profits. Yesterday ponderer said a competitor charges $75 for a similar hummingbird attraction device. Ponderer charges about $20. That was her decision. The government did not force her to charge less with a mandated cap.

As I said above when the government meddles with economic laws, it is fraught with unintended consequences. The main reason we don�t have national health insurance as they do in Europe is because President Roosevelt capped wages, specifically a freeze on wages. Incidentally, FDR tried to create a national healthcare system.

The Real Reason the U.S. Has Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance
In 1942, with so many eligible workers diverted to military service, the nation was facing a severe labor shortage. Economists feared that businesses would keep raising salaries to compete for workers, and that inflation would spiral out of control as the country came out of the Depression. To prevent this, President Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9250, establishing the Office of Economic Stabilization.

This froze wages. Businesses were not allowed to raise pay to attract workers.

Businesses were smart, though, and instead they began to use benefits to compete. Specifically, to offer more, and more generous, health care insurance.
nytimes.com

by HatetheSwamp on September 5, 2023 9:42 am

As Americans, we should be proud of the sacrifice that we are making for the benefit of the rest of the world.

You're a Saint, po.

by Indy! on September 5, 2023 12:45 pm

Curt also believed the NY Times when they said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

by Curt_Anderson on September 5, 2023 1:14 pm
Indy,
That's what I meant when I said earlier about being a critical thinker and a skeptical consumer of the news media. You don't have to take the NY Times word for it. I didn't. I looked at other sources.

There are a lot of articles on the subject. Google Roosevelt's Executive Order 9250 Office of Economic Stabilization Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance

by HatetheSwamp on September 5, 2023 1:41 pm

You're a regular Hercule Poirot, Curt. Bahahahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh.

by Indy! on September 5, 2023 9:29 pm

One has nothing to do with the other, Curt. We have had plenty of opportunities to fix our healthcare system since FDR. Obama could have done it with ONE VOTE. And not to burst your bubble about the NYT, but they have been caught lying on purpose to spread disinformation more times than you can count. If you want to continue to believe they have your best interests at heart when they helped send American soldiers to their deaths for no reason other than MIC profit - that's up to you.

by Donna on September 6, 2023 9:45 am

Okay, generic drugs negatively impact corporate profits.

In a truly civilized society, no one would be priced out of receiving life-saving medical care, or for that matter basic food, clothing and shelter.

Sometime in the future, if human civilization survives, Americans will look back at this time and be aghast at how we could have allowed large swaths of our society to be sacrificed at the alter of corporate profits.

We're still a race of uncivilized, narcissistic, barbaric monkeys.

by Indy! on September 6, 2023 12:36 pm

We are. A million+ people died of covid and the only thing the gov't was worried about was getting people back into their office jobs to save corporate America's profits.

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