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Gay & Lesbian selectors, pages, etc.
Glenn Greenwald, a gay man, turns on transpeople
By Donna
August 4, 2021 12:43 pm
Category: Gay & Lesbian

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I wasn't aware that transpeople have, as Glenn Greenwald, who is gay, put it, "catapulted up the ladder of oppression" which has conferred "concrete benefits".

Wha??????

As transwomen, Sheri and I aren't aware of any "concrete benefits" we can take advantage of because we're trans. This is a regurgitation of the "special rights" trope that homophobes used against gay people when they were demanding equal rights that everyone else enjoys.

What the Heck Happened to Glenn Greenwald? Great discussion by Sam Seder and Emma Vigelund. Includes clips of Greenwald. Skip ahead to the 5:55 mark to get to the heart of the discussion.

Cited and related links:

  1. youtube.com

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Comments on "Glenn Greenwald, a gay man, turns on transpeople ":

  1. by Curt Anderson on August 4, 2021 12:57 pm
    Donna,
    I read your first sentence and I literally said aloud, "What?!" You took the words out of my mouth.

    You would like to think that anybody within the rainbow of LBGTQIA would be supportive of other L, B, G, , T, Q, I, and A people.

    Not that I predicted this, but I have not been a fan of Greenwald's for quite a while.

  2. by Donna on August 4, 2021 1:06 pm
    I know you have.

    A couple of years ago, Glenn Greenwald resigned from the media outlet he helped found, The Intercept. It's probably been a tough road for him since his voluntary departure. I never see him on TV anymore.

    So what I think might be going on is that Glenn Greenwald, in an effort to resurrect his fame and bank account balance, has resorted to making controversial remarks that he hopes will get him attention and improve his personal financial situation.

  3. by Curt Anderson on August 4, 2021 1:52 pm
    Donna,
    That sounds right. We are in a societal stage where fame, success and financial rewards are bestowed not upon the intelligent, insightful and talented, as much as they are bestowed upon the inflammatory, controversial and outrageous.

    The sweet spot for online fame and fortune seems to be between the area of grabbing attention and crossing the line into where a person is cancelled.

  4. by HatetheSwamp on August 5, 2021 9:54 am

    Gang,

    I'm fascinated.

    I have no background knowledge about this issue. And, no vested interest in it. I have nothing to gain either as far as I can tell.

    I'm in the position of being entirely disinterested and objective.

    With that advantage, here's what I see:

    This is as obvious...and SHAMEFUL...an example of creating a strawman as I have ever witnessed by anyone.

    There's a minute clip of the offensive video which is chopped and spliced to shreds.

    As communication, this resembles Nazi anti semitic propaganda more, as I said, shamelessly than anything I've ever witnessed.

    At his most shrill and hateful Rush Limbaugh could never have dreamed of being this intellectually dishonest.

    I'm certain that something very significant for the LGBTQIA community is at stake here, but based on this, you don't need the Moral Majority to stand in your way. Your intellectual dishonesty and inner focused hate will be your downfall.

    And, Donna, I can image po falling for this. That you have also surprises me.

  5. by Donna on August 5, 2021 10:34 am
    Well then maybe you can tell me what "concrete benefits" I've received from being trans. (Hint: There are none)

  6. by HatetheSwamp on August 5, 2021 10:46 am

    Donna,

    As I said, I know nothing about this but I'm certain of this: if Glenn Greenwald was being fairly represented in your video, he's a dolt and a hate merchant and that no one could possibly take him seriously. Yet, clearly, people do.

    Actually, my guess is that the issue being discussed is probably important but no one could know that from this video.

    When you have knocked down a strawman, you've accomplished nothing.

    I am actually curious now about what is at stake here. But, the video did nothing to make that clear.

  7. by Donna on August 5, 2021 12:08 pm
    You're free to search for the original video.

  8. by HatetheSwamp on August 6, 2021 3:54 am

    Donna,

    Obviously the video doesn't do justice to what Glenn Greenwald said that you find offensive, or threatening. Understanding that you find it appalling, can you describe what the issue is?

  9. by Donna on August 6, 2021 9:38 am
    I already did.

  10. by HatetheSwamp on August 6, 2021 9:47 am

    What? He's wrong.

  11. by Donna on August 7, 2021 11:52 am
    I found the original video. See link below.

    Sheri and I just finished listening to the first 37 minutes of the 85 minute video. Speaking for myself -- and I think Sheri would agree with most if not everything I'm saying -- I agree with Glenn Greenwald and Katie Herzog on the central points they made. Sheri and I hold viewpoints shared by them which are sometimes at odds with the broader trans community, for example regarding the issue of trans women competing with cis women in sports, which I discussed on the old forum, that I could imagine might get us kicked out of trans groups if we belonged to any.

    However, we still object to Glenn's framing of trans people "catapulting" up the ladder over gay and lesbian people and the idea that we trans people enjoy "concrete benefits" from finally having our day in the sun. I guess if you're a celebrity or you're out there competing for recognition or air time, it might seem the way Glenn describes it. But for us regular trans folks, which is the vast majority, there are no "concrete benefits" to being trans - actually quite the opposite. If a small minority of trans people are benefiting from our long-awaited day in the sun, so what? How is that different from thirty years ago when gay and lesbian people finally got their day in the sun? Why does everything have to be a competition?

    With that said, point taken, HtS. I admit that I did jump the gun characterizing Greenwald as having turned against trans people, and that actually I agree with Glenn and Katie much more than I disagree with them.


    youtube.com

  12. by Curt Anderson on August 7, 2021 1:29 pm
    Donna,
    Did you watch Bill Maher last night? His first guest was former Olympic swimmer Donna de Varona. She argues that trans athletes, especially male to female, should not be competing with other females. Her concern is with and she is protective of female athletes and their Title 9 achievements. She suggests that there be trans categories. She said that are categories for Paralympians, there are competitions for age groups, 200 lb. wrestlers don't wrestle 120 lb. wrestlers, etc.

  13. by Donna on August 7, 2021 2:23 pm
    We missed Maher. We were watching the Angels beat the Dodgers last night. Thanks for the tip. We'll watch it either on demand or when they rebroadcast it.

    A while back, I posted my opinion on the trans athelete issue on Facebook, and I received almost unanimous likes - all from FB friends who are liberal and non-trans. I think my being trans made it okay for them to sort of come out against the trans/liberal zeitgeist on the issue. There is is simply no getting around the fact that trans women athletes have male bodies, which gives them an advantage. One person disliked it, but I had a conversation with her and I think she seemed to understand my viewpoint.


  14. by HatetheSwamp on August 8, 2021 5:07 am

    With that said, point taken, HtS. I admit that I did jump the gun characterizing Greenwald as having turned against trans people, and that actually I agree with Glenn and Katie much more than I disagree with them.

    Thanks, Donna. Your highlighting of the video trashing Greenwald seemed out of character for you because, as I said, it goes places in creating a strawman that even Limbaugh couldn't have wildly dreamed of. You normally are far more nuanced than the video accounted for.

    And, I have to say, not being LGBTQ myself, that this internal debate is beyond me. It's a bit like asking someone who's Buddhist to follow as Christian fundamentalists argue between views of the Atonement.

    I will say that non LGBTQ people will find it easy to take a position on trans people competing in sports...

    ...but, I'm certain that there is much more at stake within the LGBTQ community.

  15. by Donna on August 8, 2021 11:31 am
    I watched that episode of RTwBM last night. IMO Maher sort of redeemed himself during the opening interview. The entire show was riveting.

    Well meaning non-trans liberals have been automatically going along with whatever the loudest voices from the trans community proclaim, but that may be changing.


  16. by Curt Anderson on August 8, 2021 11:54 am
    Donna,
    That interaction between Ben Shapiro and Malcolm Nance was the most acrimonious I have ever seen on Real Time. Nance clearly has no use for Shapiro.

  17. by Donna on August 8, 2021 12:13 pm
    I thought Malcolm Nance came across as a smug asshole.

    I've been searching YouTube for the opening interview segment with Olympic Gold Medalist Donna de Varona where they discussed the controversy surrounding trans women athletes. I found video segments from all other parts of the show, but not the opening interview, which is unusual. I'm getting the feeling that it's been kiboshed.

    The truth is being squelched.

  18. by Curt Anderson on August 8, 2021 12:37 pm
    If you go to my first link below and to the 6:30 mark of the audio link you can hear the interview.

    Nance made no effort to hide his disdain, but Ben Shapiro makes my skin crawl. Shapiro said something to the effect that only small fraction of the January 6th insurrectionists were guilty of any crime the others, he said, were innocent bystanders. Really? If a lynch mob with scores of people hangs some poor soul from a tree branch on Main Street, it's not just the most active participants, that is the guys restraining the victim and pulling the rope, who are guilty. The guilty bystanders aided and abetted the worst of the lot.
    omny.fm

  19. by HatetheSwamp on August 8, 2021 12:42 pm

    My increasingly settled opinion is that white middle and upper class liberals are, generally, unthinking and are going to set back Dems for the rest of this decade. Present company excepted, of course.

  20. by Donna on August 8, 2021 12:45 pm
    I've been in similar situations at protests - not nearly as bad as 1/6, though. There's very little you can do when other protesters engage in vandalism and violence.

  21. by Curt Anderson on August 8, 2021 1:04 pm
    Donna,
    I've been in protests too. None that became violent or destructive though. If there had been, store windows being broken for example, I would have immediately removed myself from the situation. If I had a gripe it wasn't with Joe Shmoe trying to make a living with a store.

    It might not be easy to easy to stop the violence and vandalism of others, but I disagree with Shapiro that most of the insurrectionists were innocent. At a minimum most were trespassing and disregarding the orders of the police. When I've visited famous buildings and other tourist attractions, I don't just wander down every hallway and try every door. I stay within the velvet ropes and follow the tour guide.

  22. by Donna on August 8, 2021 1:04 pm
    You know who COULD have done something about it, though, but didn't?

  23. by Donna on August 8, 2021 1:09 pm
    It's unknowable what percentage of attendees at the 1/6 rally and subsequent coup attempt supported breaking into the Capitol, so IMO it's a waste of time debating that.

  24. by Curt Anderson on August 8, 2021 1:10 pm
    Donna,
    Yup. And he still won't dissuade his cultists from their misapprehension about the legitimacy of the last election.

  25. by Curt Anderson on August 8, 2021 1:17 pm
    Donna,
    There have been over 600 people charged so far in connection the Capitol riot. There must be many who are nervously wondering if they will show up on somebody's social media page to be recognized and get a subsequent knock on their door. I am good with that. I hope the main instigators starting with Trump, Mo Brooks, Giuliani, etc. get hauled into court for their part.

  26. by HatetheSwamp on August 8, 2021 1:28 pm

    And he still won't dissuade his cultists from their misapprehension about the legitimacy of the last election.

    You two are too cute.

    While there's an effective vaccine for COVID, TDS remains incurable.

    What you believe is far more unlikely than what we believe.
    spectator.org

  27. by Donna on August 8, 2021 1:32 pm
    When I see "TDS" I stop reading.

  28. by Curt Anderson on August 8, 2021 1:38 pm
    Donna,
    You didn't miss anything. HtS is still trying to push his sole link that argues that something was amiss with the election. It's an idiotic piece by a guy named Catron in which he argues that there were portends indicating that Trump should have won.


  29. by Donna on August 8, 2021 2:56 pm
    I can forgive people who once suspected voted fraud, but if you're still drinking that swill at this point, you just look like a dumbass.

  30. by Curt Anderson on August 8, 2021 2:57 pm
    Donna,
    Even that guy, Catron, who HtS loves to cite has stopped saying it.

  31. by Donna on August 8, 2021 3:07 pm
    Well that makes hts look like an even bigger dumbass.

  32. by HatetheSwamp on August 9, 2021 6:42 am

    When I see "TDS" I stop reading.

    All of my alcoholic friends lived in misery until they admitted the truth about themselves.

  33. by HatetheSwamp on August 9, 2021 6:48 am


    HtS is still trying to push his sole link that argues that something was amiss with the election. It's an idiotic piece by a guy named Catron in which he argues that there were portends indicating that Trump should have won.

    No. pb is making the point that we all believe what we're inclined to believe.

    That the Dems cheated can't be denied by any person whose eyes and heart are open.

    A person can only believe that the former 18 wheeler driver from Delaware would have won without the cheating.

    Belief is all you have but belief's kept you going so far...

  34. by HatetheSwamp on August 9, 2021 6:54 am

    Well that makes hts look like an even bigger dumbass.

    One among millions of likely voter dumbasses.

    What I think bothers you Swampcult progressives is being reminded that what you choose to believe doesn't become fact simply because you believe it.

    What makes you different than me is that I can strongly believe differently than you without the need to call you a dumbass.

  35. by Donna on August 9, 2021 9:24 am
    What a dumbass.

  36. by HatetheSwamp on August 9, 2021 9:29 am

    One of many millions dumbasses who are also likely voters.

    I am curious. What difference does it make that we are dumbasses?

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