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Government selectors, pages, etc.
Brouhaha over the Texas and Florida "anti-trans" laws
By HatetheSwamp
May 19, 2023 9:34 am
Category: Government

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What objective journalism, there, eh?

Gang, if want a woke sermon, I go to a Unitarian Universalist Church or a United Church of Christ. How bout you?

But, the point is that the beat goes on. Megyn Kelly beat the trans political agenda on her very influential podcast yesterday...and Clay and Buck opened their show on the Texas and Florida issue specifically.


The staggering fine print of Texas and Florida’s new anti-trans bills

Two sweeping bans on gender-affirming care for trans teens could have devastating implications


The Texas legislature passed a ban Wednesday on gender-affirming care for kids under 18, which includes hormone treatments and gender-affirming surgeries, though such surgeries are rarely performed on children. The ban allows trans teens already receiving hormone treatments to temporarily continue them. Still, it requires that they “wean” themselves off the treatments. Republican Gov. Greg Abbott is expected to sign the bill.

Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, who is reportedly gearing up to announce his 2024 presidential bid next week, also signed a similar ban in his state Wednesday, one that imposes felony penalties on health care providers who administer gender-affirming care to kids under 18. The law includes a provision that concerns custody disputes for a child receiving gender-affirming care, and, though it only applies to a narrow set of circumstances, advocates worry that it could lead to Florida overriding other states’ rulings.

Both laws are part of the GOP’s coordinated national campaign against LGBTQ rights in state legislatures. Florida alone has already passed more anti-LGBTQ legislation this session than it did in the seven years prior; Texas is on track to pass more than double the number of similarly anti-LGBTQ laws than it did over that same period, said Cathryn Oakley, state legislative director and senior counsel at the Human Rights Campaign.


BTW, I promise. I will do a post soon on what I believe about these issues...and not merely to report on the continuing avalanche of breaking right-wing political victories.


Cited and related links:

  1. vox.com

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Comments on "Brouhaha over the Texas and Florida "anti-trans" laws":

  1. by Hunter28 on May 19, 2023 9:44 am

    Hater wrote:

    I will do a post soon on what I believe about these issues...

    What a cliffhanger. I can't imagine what your opinion might be.

    As I've said, I'm skeptical about a lot of arguments that come from trans advocates. But I concede that I could be wrong about things. For F's sake, people on both sides could be wrong. So how about we take some time, and have a national conversation before we start passing laws that we soon regret?

    The best laws are those that are passed with wide consensus. They're more likely to address real problems and they'll also withstand court scrutiny. Surely, we can wait a few years until we get that kind of consensus.


  2. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 9:54 am

    28,

    isle and po have been harassing me for hypothetically pretending to hide behind my reporting of the political victories of opponents of the trans political agenda.

    I've declared that I think some of these laws go too far. Every time I do, po requests that I go "fukk" myself. (FYI, Pondy got Curt in trouble in the past, with Google, for dropping eff bombs for real. Now, unless uncontrollably provoked, po intentionally misspells the offending word.)

    So, I'll bring clarity.


  3. by Hunter28 on May 19, 2023 10:06 am

    Hater wrote:

    I've declared that I think some of these laws go too far.


    I would be curious to hear your opinion on what laws go too far.

    Let's set aside all the trolling and the baiting and the owning of Libtards.

    What do you actually believe? What restrictions would you enact? What proposed restrictions go too far?


  4. by Ponderer on May 19, 2023 10:06 am

    "The ban allows trans teens already receiving hormone treatments to temporarily continue them. Still, it requires that they “wean” themselves off the treatments."

    The inhuman cruelty that these MAGA Republican lawmakers are pig-ignorantly imposing on transgender youth is possibly the most disgusting thing I have ever seen them do. It's at least second to the abortion bans they are foisting on American women. MAGA Republicans don't give ashit who they kill or destroy with their sociopathic attrocities.


    "The best laws are those that are passed with wide consensus." -Hunter

    The problem with that in this case though, Hunter, is that we are dealing with a complex medical and psychological issue here that the vast majority of the population forming such a consensus is blitheringly ignorant about in any real detail.

    Are the best laws the ones that the most successful propaganda can manipulate the most people into supporting?

    "So how about we take some time, and have a national conversation before we start passing laws that we soon regret?" -Hunter

    HERE HERE! I even believe strongly that all the laws supporting transwomen athletes competing with cis women could have taken a lesson from that sentiment.


    "BTW, I promise. I will do a post soon on what I believe about these issues...and not merely to report on the continuing avalanche of breaking right-wing political victories." -Hate

    Uh huh:


  5. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 10:15 am

    The problem with that in this case though, Hunter, is that we are dealing with a complex medical and psychological issue here that the vast majority of the population forming such a consensus is blitheringly ignorant about in any real detail.

    You're making pb's point, po.

    If ANYONE can make the point that this "complex medical and psychological issue" should be treated with compassion and thoughtfulness, it's people like you who support the trans political agenda. But, all any of you give us is hate rhetoric, as you just did. This is your fault...

    ...and, as I've pointed out, the anti-TQ LGB groups and activists are 100% behind these laws. These laws are their raison d'etre.


  6. by Hunter28 on May 19, 2023 10:18 am

    Since I acknowledge I'm not always perfect, I'll go ahead and revise a statement:

    "The best laws are those that are passed with wide consensus AMONG A WELL-INFORMED PUBLIC."

    Thus the need to hold-off on a passing a bunch of laws until we've had a national conversation (the process through which the public becomes well-informed).


  7. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 10:34 am

    28,

    How would you propose the public be moved beyond the high level of emotion it's experiencing?

    As I've been pointing out for months, po speaks well for the trans community...offering nothing but vitriol and name-calling in response to this sudden onslaught of laws passed to protect children from groomers and parents from the intrusion of schools and trans activists intent of subverting their relationship with their children.

    I agree there should be reasoned conversation. But, neither side's interested...and seem less interested by the day as time passes.


  8. by Ponderer on May 19, 2023 10:39 am

    "If ANYONE can make the point that this "complex medical and psychological issue" should be treated with compassion and thoughtfulness, it's people like you who support the trans political agenda. But, all any of you give us is hate rhetoric, as you just did." -Hate

    ...In reaction to the heinous and life-destroying laws that your MAGA Republican side is wantonly and sociopathically passing without the tiniest shred of compassion, thoughtfulness, or intelligence at all.

    You always leave out the important parts of any argument that you ever make, Bill. It's really annoying.


    ""The best laws are those that are passed with wide consensus AMONG A WELL-INFORMED PUBLIC."" -Hunter

    Again, here here! 🥂

    But then we're basically pissing up a rope if we ever expect the MAGA Republican party to ever let the public be turned into such a thing as "informed". That would absolutely destroy any chances of them ever being elected to anything ever again.


  9. by Hunter28 on May 19, 2023 10:53 am
    Hater wrote:

    How would you propose the public be moved beyond the high level of emotion it's experiencing?

    Time. People tend to get emotional when they only hear one side, or they don't have time to process. Wait. Give people time to talk and learn more about all the issues involved.

    As I said before, humans have been around for 300,000 years. In the grand sweep of history, we don't have to urgently solve every problem today. Sometimes we need to slow down, think things over, then move deliberately and rationally.

    People were really wound up about gay marriage in 2004. Ten years later, not so much. We realized, as a country, it wasn't really a big deal.


    As I've been pointing out for months, po speaks well for the trans community...

    No, Ponderer does not speak FOR the trans community. Nobody elected Ponderer spokesperson. Ponderer speaks for (I forget) himself or herself. There is wide diversity withing the trans community, as there is with the greater society at large. That's why others have argued with your use of the phrase "the trans agenda." Yes, some people certainly do have an agenda. But not all trans people have the same agenda, just like you and I (models of virile masculine heterosexuality that we are) don't have a shared agenda either.


    offering nothing but vitriol and name-calling

    Yes, in my opinion Ponderer is too quick to take the bait. But you're the one dangling the bait. You have responsibility here, too.


    in response to this sudden onslaught of laws passed to protect children from groomers and parents from the intrusion of schools and trans activists intent of subverting their relationship with their children.

    As I have said many, many times, I am skeptical about a lot of arguments I hear from trans activists. However, I genuinely believe that most people on both sides are acting with benign intent, arguing for what they believe are policies that will help people. I think many people on the left have an intuitive impulse to embrace pro-trans ideas because they genuinely believe that people are suffering, and there is little harm in giving them what they want. I understand that impulse, because I had it once, too. But I believe there may be a lot of unintended consequences that need scrutiny.

    Yes, I agree there may be some people have malignant intent, on both sides. But I believe these people are really a very small minority. We're not going to get anywhere if we're not willing to listen and deal with real arguments instead of perceived motives.


    I agree there should be reasoned conversation. But, neither side's interested...and seem less interested by the day as time passes.

    Well, if you want reasoned conversation, be the change that you want to see.


  10. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 10:58 am

    ...In reaction to the heinous and life-destroying laws that your MAGA Republican side is wantonly and sociopathically passing without the tiniest shred of compassion, thoughtfulness, or intelligence at all.

    You always leave out the important parts of any argument that you ever make, Bill. It's really annoying.


    See what I mean, 28?

    And, po, it's "Hear, hear!"

    techtarget.com


  11. by Hunter28 on May 19, 2023 11:06 am
    Hater wrote:

    See what I mean, 28?


    Yes, I see that you like to bait people and posture when that bait is taken.

    You can choose to interact in a productive way.


  12. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 11:10 am

    People were really wound up about gay marriage in 2004. Ten years later, not so much. We realized, as a country, it wasn't really a big deal.

    You would have been a welcome addition to SS then. There were lively discussions.

    As I was saying before the time, same sex marriage would only become law across the nation if was foisted on the public by the courts. I was right.

    So. It was foisted. It's settled. That doesn't mean that everyone is content. I've also pointed out that today's courts are unlikely to foist the trans political agenda on America as it did with same sex marriage. Our trans people know that and are pi$$ed about it.

    No, Ponderer does not speak FOR the trans community.

    po's hate rhetoric seems typical to me of how all supporters of the trans political agenda but, please, show me I'm wrong if I am.

    Yes, in my opinion Ponderer is too quick to take the bait. But you're the one dangling the bait. You have responsibility here, too.

    Baha. We have a complex relationship that goes back many years. Word is that, in real life, po's a quiet and gentle person.


  13. by Ponderer on May 19, 2023 3:00 pm

    "You can choose to interact in a productive way." -Hunter

    He certainly can. And admittedly, so could I. But with him, I don't wanna.

    (By the way, I'm a she/her pronoun preferring, male to female transsexual).

    Believe me Hunter, I gave it many years of trying to be civil to Hate (or pb as he went by a couple decades ago) in our debates before I lost all patience with his lying, his misrepresentation, his duplicitousness, his never admitting he was wrong, and his never answering simple, direct (or what he calls "gotcha") questions. He got on my last nerve and I haven't replaced them since.


    One particular debate that went on for weeks before I accepted the fact that he was just fuking with me was before same sex marriage was passed. He argued that if same sex marriage was made legal, it would increase childhood poverty. No amount of begging resulted in him ever giving me any data on which he was basing that assertion, nor would he ever explain how the two things could in any way be logically connected, nor would he ever admit that he was wrong and that the idea was blithering nonsense. "You just wait and see...", he just kept saying.

    Well, I'm sure that even now, with all these years of steadily dropping childhood poverty statistics to draw on since same sex marriage was made legal, that he would still never admit to how asinine his thesis was back then and would still assert that he just hasn't been proved correct yet.

    So yeah, I don't bother wasting any time pulling punches with him anymore. And to be honest, as he is a perfectly average representative of the modern GOP, It's rather therapeutic for me to use him in this forum to safely vent my anger of his entire political party towards in no uncertain words.




    (Plus....... I think he kinda likes it.)




  14. by HatetheSwamp on May 19, 2023 3:12 pm

    He argued that if same sex marriage was made legal, it would increase childhood poverty.

    pb said that, by 2030, child poverty will increase. He's still holding to that prediction.


  15. by Ponderer on May 19, 2023 4:11 pm

    "pb said that, by 2030, child poverty will increase. He's still holding to that prediction." -Hate


    "his lying," -Post 13

    his misrepresentation," -Post 13

    his duplicitousness," -Post 13

    his never admitting he was wrong," -Post 13


    BINGO!!! I GOT BINGO!!!!!


  16. by Hunter28 on May 20, 2023 12:23 am

    I'm not really interested in relitigating gay marriage. A conservative-majority supreme court said it's legal. Nobody's really arguing about it anymore.


    Hater wrote:

    We have a complex relationship that goes back many years.

    Ponderer wrote:

    It's rather therapeutic for me to use him in this forum to safely vent my anger .... (Plus....... I think he kinda likes it.)


    You sound like an old married couple.


  17. by Ponderer on May 20, 2023 6:00 am

    Don't we though?


  18. by HatetheSwamp on May 20, 2023 7:07 am

    I'm not really interested in relitigating gay marriage. A conservative-majority supreme court said it's legal. Nobody's really arguing about it anymore.


    Exactly, 28! Apparently, GOPs aren't the "fascistic and disgusting" "Christian theocrats" po claims they are.


  19. by Hunter28 on May 20, 2023 7:49 am

    Yes. You could have your own sit-com. Tonight on "The Bickersons," special guest star Dylan Mulvaney drinks an entire six-pack of Bud Light and throws up on the love seat. Now a word from our sponsor, "Child Poverty." When gays get married, kids get kicked to the curb. Coming to a slum near you. Now back to our regularly-scheduled programming....


  20. by oldedude on May 20, 2023 8:04 am
    This makes it easy. States have to comply. It's a no-brainer. Agreed 28.


  21. by HatetheSwamp on May 20, 2023 8:13 am

    28,

    What pb predicted is that, unless heterosexual monogamous marriage is set apart and incentivized, men will become anti-woman and stop marrying, the number of single parent families will increase then, as they say en Français, et voila. Child poverty!

    Do you know what Red Pill masculinity is? It's as if pb saw straight into the future. It's comin. And, when it arrives it won't be undone.

    See links:

    en.m.wikipedia.org
    en.m.wikipedia.org
    en.m.wikipedia.org
    theguardian.com
    View Video


  22. by oldedude on May 20, 2023 8:29 am
    A symptom of "delicate" "men."

    Enter Brad... "When you see a deer, you see Bambi..."


  23. by oldedude on May 20, 2023 8:34 am
    "Believe me Hunter, I gave it many years of trying to be civil to Hate (or pb as he went by a couple decades ago) in our debates before I lost all patience with his lying, his misrepresentation, his duplicitousness, his never admitting he was wrong, and his never answering simple, direct (or what he calls "gotcha") questions. He got on my last nerve and I haven't replaced them since."

    This is why I haven't entered this "conversation" except in jest. When one side tells you they are not willing to talk, the "conversation" is finished. Kaput. Sorry, but I feel this is a useless thread because of that. It's a "fight" I'm not willing to spend any time and energy with.


  24. by Ponderer on May 22, 2023 9:51 am

    "What pb predicted is that, unless heterosexual monogamous marriage is set apart and incentivized, men will become anti-woman and stop marrying, the number of single parent families will increase then, as they say en Français, et voila. Child poverty!"What pb predicted is that, unless heterosexual monogamous marriage is set apart and incentivized, men will become anti-woman and stop marrying, the number of single parent families will increase then, as they say en Français, et voila. Child poverty!" -Hate

    Unfortunately, Bill, none of that has happened and child poverty has been steadily decreasing ever since you came up with cockamamie thesis of yours. Marriage may be on the decrease, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with gay marriage. Nor childhood poverty. Even though single parent families may be on the increase as you suggest, childhood poverty has been decreasing.

    By the way, "et voila" is not French for and with no logical explanation whatsoever connecting the two things,


  25. by HatetheSwamp on May 22, 2023 10:26 am

    po,

    Unfortunately, Bill, none of that has happened...

    Well, some of it has happened. I've been fiddling with creating a thread on Red Pill Ideology/the Red PillMovement. I said all along that what I predict won't materialize until about 2030...essentially, a generation-ish into the same sex marriage era.

    Sadly, what is happening makes my prediction of child poverty seem like a best case scenario. Clearly, the anti-woman thing is well underway, and disturbing.

    You got your way. Same sex marriage has been foisted on us. We'll always be paying the price. I'm glad I'm a geezer.


  26. by Ponderer on May 22, 2023 10:51 am

    "I said all along that what I predict won't materialize until about 2030" -Hate

    Yeah that is essentially a lie. Your "thesis" never started out with that. You only added that in months later when you realized that you couldn't back up a single thing you were suggesting.



  27. by Ponderer on May 22, 2023 1:11 pm

    "Same sex marriage has been foisted on us. We'll always be paying the price." -Hate

    Neither you nor society has or will suffer any negative repercussions whatsoever from same sex marriage being the constitutionally legal thing that it is. And you haven't got a single damned thing to present whatsoever that it has or ever will.

    You are wrong and you got nothing, Bill. Nothing but meaningless hot air blown from your ass.


  28. by HatetheSwamp on May 23, 2023 4:13 am

    I promise a thread on this Red Pill Ideology thing. The way I'm planning to do it'll take you time. But, I'll do it. It involves linking to a video that I find appalling, but interesting.

    But, po,...

    You are effin ignorant. Willfully and blindly ignorant. But, you are waaaaaaay off.


  29. by Ponderer on May 23, 2023 5:44 am

    So I'm ignorant because I won't subscribe to your absolutely baseless and bigotry-founded thesis? I'm ignorant because I can't read any rational substance into your imaginary hallucinations about the immanent chaos and horror that same sex marriage will bring to America? I'm ignorant because I dare to give credence to all the blatant evidence that testifies to the fact that you are simply wrong?

    You and your classic MAGA Republican conservative projection.


  30. by HatetheSwamp on May 23, 2023 6:15 am

    "So I'm ignorant because I won't subscribe to your absolutely baseless and bigotry-founded thesis? I'm ignorant because I can't read any rational substance into your imaginary hallucinations about the immanent chaos and horror that same sex marriage will bring to America? I'm ignorant because I dare to give credence to all the blatant evidence that testifies to the fact that you are simply wrong?"

    No.

    Not at all.

    Not by a looooooooong shot.

    No. You're ignorant because you are uninformed. You don't know stuff...important stuff. And, it seems to me, that the reason for that is, you don't want to know anything inconvenient to your carefully constructed subjectivity.


  31. by Ponderer on May 23, 2023 7:45 am

    "No. You're ignorant because you are uninformed. You don't know stuff...important stuff." -Hate

    Bill, I have been all-freaking-ears waiting on you to enlighten me to this "important stuff" that I apparently don't know. As you are the sole holder of this important knowledge, it falls upon you to instruct me as to what this important stuff is.

    But I have been waiting to no avail. You have steadfastly refused to tell me this secret knowledge that only you possess. How can I be blamed for that? You have provided me with a grand total of no explanations that would suddenly make your baseless, pig-ignorantly asinine thesis perfectly and completely rational and logical.

    Why have you kept this knowledge from me all these years, Bill? I seriously want to hear the truth.



    Even if it destroys me.....


  32. by HatetheSwamp on May 23, 2023 8:03 am

    po,

    Not everyone clings to your happy ignorance. There was a fairly prominent documentary done in 2016 entitled, THE RED PILL. BTW, it's on YouTube. You can watch it without commercials. And, as a primer it ain't bad, but I'm not recommending it.

    Red Pill Ideology is radical. It's very worth being concerned about but everything I've found that I could link to is so hate-driven that I won't waste your time. However, if you want a sense of how great a threat it is, skim through a few articles you can get easily through Google. A movement that is hated so much must be a threat. Otherwise, people wouldn't bother.

    It ain't nuthin...as much as you pretend it away.


  33. by Ponderer on May 23, 2023 8:16 am

    "It ain't nuthin...as much as you pretend it away." -Hate

    You keep saying that.

    But if it wasn't nothing, you could tell me what it is. But you never do.

    So you are either loathe to simply tell me this "important stuff" for some reason, or it actually is nothing and you have just been bullshitting this whole time.

    So... which is it?


  34. by Ponderer on May 23, 2023 8:19 am

    And how could a documentary on the men's rights movement contain this secret knowledge that you are hoarding about how same sex marriage increases child poverty?


  35. by HatetheSwamp on May 23, 2023 9:02 am

    I refuse to believe for a moment that you are this stupid. My point is that THE RED PILL documentary is a decent primer on Red Pill Ideology.

    What I'm planning to post will take less time and provide more information that is useful to the point at hand, i.e., since the Obergefell Decision, America has begun to go to h, e, double hockey sticks in a handbasket.


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