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Gay & Lesbian selectors, pages, etc.
Forget the Trans agenda pendulum swing. Is it a backlash? Now, Indiana piles on.
By HatetheSwamp
March 1, 2023 5:13 am
Category: Gay & Lesbian

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Indiana Senate joins states trying to limit transgender care

The bill passed the Senate 36-12, sending it to the House despite last week’s contentious committee hearing that primarily featured testimony from vocal opponents. Witnesses said the types of care the bill would ban, such as hormone therapy and puberty blockers, is vital and often life-saving for trans kids.

With respect to hormone therapy, Republicans who favor the bill have cited concerns that the treatments are irreversible, an idea medical providers have challenged.

"Given the pressures put on parents, the irreversible nature of these procedures and the unknown long-term effects, there’s no such thing as true informed consent.”

Earlier Tuesday, Republican Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves signed a bill to ban gender-affirming care in the state. Utah’s Republican governor also signed a ban on such care in January, while judges have temporarily blocked similar laws in Arkansas and Alabama.

Indiana state lawmakers also pushed ahead a separate bill on Tuesday that would remove a legal defense for public school libraries when educators are accused of distributing texts harmful to students. Critics have said it could lead to banning books that explore racism or LGBTQ issues.


Note the vote count: 36- effin 12!

If you read the very informative article...with little preaching for either side...you see that pb's take is bang on.

These bills are not anti-Trans. What they are is anti Big Brother.

As has been said, if you want children to be groomed (by the dictionary definition of the term), to be transers, that's great.

This is America. Go for it. But, these days, you're going to have to fight for it.

No more foisting by Big Brother's hand.

There's a reason why the First Article of the Constitution is the Legislature.

"Of the people, by the people and for the people."


Cited and related links:

  1. thehill.com

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Comments on "Forget the Trans agenda pendulum swing. Is it a backlash? Now, Indiana piles on.":

  1. by Donna on March 1, 2023 7:23 am

    "As has been said, if you want children to be groomed (by the dictionary definition of the term), to be transers, that's great." - Hate

    Um, you can't talk someone into being transgender. It doesn't happen like that. *rolling my eyes*

    You're spreading lies that enlarge the bullseyes that are already on our backs. Stop endangering us.

    If you don't and Curt does nothing about it, then I will.



  2. by HatetheSwamp on March 1, 2023 8:17 am

    I'm curious, pt, about what lies you think I'm spreading. I've been careful to report current events. Florida. Tennessee. Indiana. Utah. Didn't the article mention Alabama. Mississippi. Arkansas.?

    What's inaccurate? What's a lie?

    I understand that these are important issues. But, until very recently, your side addressed those issues by waving a Big Brother blunderbuss in the face of everyone who held opinions at odds with yours. You forced your agenda on everyone who dared mutter even a question.

    Last year, during Pride Month, I warned that your side had gone too far politically. I told you a backlash was forming. Now it's clear that you have pushed too far and you will have hell to pay. You pushed. You aroused an angry sleeping bear. So, watch out. Your best days are past you, at least for a long time.


    Having said that,..

    As is the case with the abortion issue, I'm politically moderate. I believe that some of these new laws have gone too far.

    I suspect that some future laws will go even further. And, I feel bad for your community. But, you have formed this reality. What's going on is a very predictable response. And, you will pay a price.


  3. by Donna on March 1, 2023 9:07 am

    "What's inaccurate? What's a lie?"

    I told you in my previous post.

    "And, I feel bad for your community."

    Bullshit.

    You're a phony.




  4. by oldedude on March 1, 2023 9:11 am
    This is the Political theory of relativity. Especially in a Republic, things will ebb and flow. The founders knew that and if you stuck to the plan, things would right themselves. So this is nothing but a course correction. Yes, things take a long time to change in our system of government. It's built that way. The founders were very clear about the conscientiously applied constitution no one had ever done before.

    As far as this question. The issue I see is not about trans per se, it's about 1. teachers not being allowed by schools/ districts to tell parents what's going on with their kids. 2. allowing medical changes to children (under 18 as per the law). 3. Both the schools and the medical profession to over-ride parents wishes for under 18.

    Many absolutely have an issue with even teaching about trans in schools. Will my grandkids learn about it? Sure, if there's a question, great. But like the Gays, it's a short conversation. "Yeah, it happens. They're humans just like you and me. Remember what we talked about? Treat them by how the treat others, and you're good."


  5. by HatetheSwamp on March 1, 2023 9:23 am

    No, Donna. What's the lie? Show me the lying words.


  6. by HatetheSwamp on March 1, 2023 9:55 am

    As far as this question. The issue I see is not about trans per se, it's about 1. teachers not being allowed by schools/ districts to tell parents what's going on with their kids. 2. allowing medical changes to children (under 18 as per the law). 3. Both the schools and the medical profession to over-ride parents wishes for under 18.

    Thanks for that, OD. That's what I meant about these laws being anti-Big Brother, not anti-Trans. The LGBT community has been on the Big Brother train for nearly two decades. Lots of foisting.

    But, "of the people, by the people and for the people," eh?


  7. by Curt_Anderson on March 1, 2023 10:34 am
    “These bills are not anti-Trans. What they are is anti Big Brother.” —HtS

    That is an oxymoron. “Big Brother” is shorthand for a government that demands total control over citizens’ lives and their decisions. A law imposed by the government that forbids certain decisions and actions of parents and doctors is the essence of Big Brotherism.



  8. by HatetheSwamp on March 1, 2023 10:41 am

    Curt,

    Bullfernerner.

    It strikes me that, under our system, Big Brother is government without the liberties guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

    This Supreme Court has resurrected the authority of the legislature...over Executive and judicial decrees.

    "Of the people, by the people and for the people." Of course, those words got Lincoln assassinated, eh!


  9. by oldedude on March 1, 2023 3:04 pm
    I think it's FAR MORE bigbrother for the "government" to over-ride parents in the raising of their (the parent's) children. Unlike what the sheep desire, if parents are legally responsible for their children, then they are responsible. You can't have the law both ways.

    Parents are also limited in the laws. Felony child abuse, having sex with a child, those sorts of things we use to protect children because (excluding NAMBLA per se and supporters) the world believes it is wrong for a parent or other adult in the position of power to do those things.

    Many people believe that schools not telling parents what their child's gender preference is falls into child abuse by the state, and is where the "grooming" issue comes in.

    That access to the children in this manner without their parents knowledge or consent is horrifying at best to parents. This is where "big brother" comes in.


  10. by Curt_Anderson on March 1, 2023 3:57 pm
    "I think it's FAR MORE bigbrother for the "government" to over-ride parents in the raising of their (the parent's) children." -OD

    I agree! A government ban on all gender-affirming care for those under 18 is overriding the parents in the raising of their children thus is Big Brotherism.

    I don't want a Big Brother government telling me how to raise my kids or what kind of health care they can access.

    Personally, I am not convinced that anything done medically to alter a child's gender needs to be done before they are 18. We didn't grant our kids' every wish, whim and demand. I don't believe I'd agree to my child's insistence on undergoing gender alteration. But I haven't been in that position so I cannot say for sure.

    I don't tell other parents how to raise their kids. Likewise, I don't believe the government should either. Obviously, children should be protected by law like anybody else from the crimes of abuse, assault, rape, et cetera that bad parents might commit.

    Once a child is legally an adult, it's their decision. I have no problem with that.





  11. by oldedude on March 1, 2023 6:04 pm
    There ya'go.


  12. by HatetheSwamp on March 2, 2023 3:43 am

    Bingo, OD and Curt. We agree.

    In many states, minors are prohibited from getting tattooed, or buying tobacco products or alcohol or vaping.

    That's how I think this issue should be handled. Can parents provide access to counseling?, support groups? Of effin course!


  13. by oldedude on March 2, 2023 4:42 am
    Yeah, I appreciate Curt's posts. I also appreciate Donna's from her point of view. There's a LOT of moving parts in this question. I also know you can't "teach" a person out of this, or "reprogram" them. The biggest worry, I think, is for acceptance. I can work with that.


  14. by HatetheSwamp on March 2, 2023 5:07 am

    This is complex, especially as it concerns minors...and because it's politically sensitive.

    There are those who are convinced that, if you disagree with them politically, you're evil. That's a poor fit in a constitutional republic.


  15. by HatetheSwamp on March 2, 2023 7:28 am

    Near as I can tell, this'd be legal, even in Tennessee.

    foxnews.com


  16. by islander on March 2, 2023 8:48 am

    I can see both sides and this and it’s one of those issues that I have nowhere near enough knowledge or understanding of to even guess how it should or could be handled. I just have no confidence that any of our politicians do either, so who should make these choices?

    I can clearly see the dangers of making a grievous error on one side or the other. The link below demonstrates the right choice in this instance, but I can also imagine what it would be like to make the wrong choice in a another.
    yahoo.com


  17. by Curt_Anderson on March 2, 2023 10:26 am
    “In many states, minors are prohibited from getting tattooed, or buying tobacco products or alcohol or vaping.” —HtS

    That is true…for minors without parental permission.

    In Oregon and probably most if not all states minors can get a tattoo with the permission of their parents. It’s not illegal for a parent to allow their child to drink or smoke. In other words, the state does not impose any restrictions on minors that supersedes the parents’ wishes.

    Contrary to what you said, I don’t think we agree on this issue. If I understand you correctly, you support legislation that forbids any sort of gender altering medical procedures for minors, even with parental permission. As far as I can tell, you are alone in your opinion in this forum.


  18. by oldedude on March 2, 2023 10:35 am
    I think the biggest thing here is parental involvement for a 16 year old. I'm not sure I would do the same, but it's not my call. Regardless of "feelings" pro or con, the parents were involved.


  19. by Interested on March 5, 2023 4:58 pm
    I have a few questions about the comments above. First:

    Of the people, by the people, for the people.
    Which people would that be? All the people or the people who think like the poster? If the people differ on this who is the arbiter? Is it a majority with the likelihood of a tyranny of the majority when it comes to a matter of Rights

    Are the Rights in the Constitution all the Rights that citizens in a democracy have and does the Constitution accordingly reject the concept of natural rights?

    If Big Brother is intrusive government, then what is the purpose of government in a democracy? Where is the line to be drawn? Wrt to the people, in Europe, many countries now give legal support to transition. Canada does, too, and Australia.

    Could this be just another case of the Religious Right in the USA using its power to make their country the last democracy to legalise transgender.

    The USA names only a few natural rights. Life and Liberty. Others are taken for granted in all Constitutions. From time immemorial abortion, for one, has been permitted and recognised in many cultures and is now a recognised in most democracies. Almost all really since the USA is now rated as a failing democracy. In general, Courts will decide on such rights and again in most democracies with recognition of modern knowledge and social mores

    .The purpose of a government may be said to be, domestically the maintenance of social order and the enforcement of rights. Natural rights would fall into that purview.

    Since, transgender issues cross cultural and national lines and many cultures and nationalities permit and support them, then how is it a "Big Brother" government that does that. Is it not more "Big Brotherish" to legislate their restriction.


  20. by oldedude on March 5, 2023 5:40 pm
    1. The whole of the "people of that nation."
    1a. the whole of the people are all segments. ergo they all have an equal voice.
    1b. total abuse by the mobs is covered in another article.

    2."The purpose of a government may be said to be, domestically the maintenance of social order and the enforcement of rights. Natural rights would fall into that purview."

    Our first duty of a government is to protect its citizens. When this was created, natural rights are not part of the conversation. As I'm sure the dims on the left will tell you that the rights of the government overwhelm those of the citizen. This is in violation of our constitution, but the difference is that if I "believe" something, it becomes 'reality." Argue with me on that. It's an essential question that we can argue until all of us die and there will be no response.


  21. by oldedude on March 5, 2023 5:46 pm
    And first of all, welcome back.
    sorry I forgot that at the other post.


  22. by oldedude on March 5, 2023 5:48 pm
    Also. My thought on the Indianan law is very suspicious? I haven't read it yet, which is the deciding factor for me.


  23. by Interested on March 5, 2023 7:37 pm
    If it is all the people of a nation and they all have an equal voice, then how is it that this small minority is ignored and deprived of their voice? Having a voice implies not just speech but also having an identity.

    How can a government have "rights." It is a protector of rights, not a holder. Protectin of the people means more than physical protection from harm.

    Your Constitution does protect natural rights. The only two mentioned directly are life and liberty. However, the "pursuit of Happiness is an emphatic statement of the coverage of a broad range of not specified natural rights. Those include the right to live in one's own identity.' Some countries call it welfare: Canada has peace, order, and good government. That has been held by Courts to cover abortion and other natural rights. Without that right to identity and the ability to live in it, then there can be no "pursuit of happiness." Only the task of living a lie: living in fear: living in misery.


  24. by oldedude on March 6, 2023 2:56 am
    If it is all the people of a nation and they all have an equal voice, then how is it that this small minority is ignored and deprived of their voice? Having a voice implies not just speech but also having an identity.

    In our system, you just answered your own question.

    Our founders were very vocal about the rule of the "mob." The idea is they have their "voice," but the majority (not a vocal minority on either side) through the process, make rules.

    For better or worse, four of the "five eyes" (FVEY) are much faster to change premise of their laws. Our Constitution was set up for slow change. Yes, sometimes that is far slower than (the inclusive) we like, but what happens is the core values of the citizenry evolve as they change. We are not the country we were in the 1950's. AND our core values have changed as a nation. Perhaps that's slow for some, but the ability for change is there. Not by a quick vote by a "law" from an individual or small group but through a process. That includes a majority of the "people."


  25. by HatetheSwamp on March 6, 2023 4:09 am

    Interested: "Could this be just another case of the Religious Right in the USA using its power to make their country the last democracy to legalise transgender."

    Based on my understanding, the Religious Right is a small part of what's going on now. Certainly, the Religious Right is a part of it but, since Covid, there's been a massive pushback against big government authoritarianism.

    As a result of remote instruction, parents got the low down on what's happening in public schools.

    Resistance to governmental overreach...against strong-arm measures by the President and blue state governors...has erupted.

    Mostly, what's at stake is Big Brother abuses, attempted in our public schools, through teachers, guidance counselors, et.al., all of whom are unelected and are foisting the trans agenda on young children...against their parents' wishes.

    Opposition is much larger than from a handful of fundamentalist wackos,...

    ...though pondy wants you to believe otherwise.


  26. by oldedude on March 6, 2023 5:21 am
    I think it's interesting that strange "bedfellows" (po, please don't respond to that as anything more than a metaphor) are the Christian and Muslim parents. With a few examples, the Muslims have kept a pretty low profile in the US, which is different than Europe. All of a sudden, Muslims who don't have the ability (or desire) to send their kids to "kuttāb" or "madrassa" have only one recourse. Send their kids to those "evil" western US schools. When you teach something that violates people's core values, they will punch back. And "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" comes in to play (I'm sure indy isle will argue that's a stupid saying and completely irrelevant). School councils are still elected, but even here, they are typically sheep that do anything NEA or AFSCME wants them to. Although we did vote out four of the six this election. So our districts are okay for now.


  27. by HatetheSwamp on March 6, 2023 6:39 am

    OD,

    I think that, in the US "democracy," the SwampDems are pushing to institutionalize the hate of organized religion and to give to hedonism the role that institutionalized religion plays in the lives of adherents to Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

    In this sense, progressives, and liberal SwampDems specifically, are the ones mounting a religious crusade.

    So, if you fall somewhere on the LGBT spectrum, truth is to live according to the hedonist's essential dogma, i.e., the pursuit of pleasure is the highest truth. All other truth must be subservient to the power of pleasure.

    In historic religion, in many ways, the function of faith is to provide an intellectual and spiritual framework that empowers self-denial in pursuit of a higher good.

    In this constitutional republic, it's perfectly appropriate that Christians and Muslims pursue similar goals.

    Ain't?


  28. by Ponderer on March 6, 2023 9:25 am

    "So, if you fall somewhere on the LGBT spectrum, truth is to live according to the hedonist's essential dogma, i.e., the pursuit of pleasure is the highest truth. All other truth must be subservient to the power of pleasure." -Hate


    So this is what you have sunk to? Your staggeringly total ignorance of this subject, coupled with your asshole dogmatic paranoia and lemming-like response to flaming bullshit right wing programing has brought you all the way down to this melodramatic display of your unadulterated, bigoted stupidity, has it?


    You are describing your truth, Bill. Not the truth of any trans people. This is what trans means to you. Trans people are just hedonists according to your subjective take on the truth. But your truth has nothing whatsoever to do with the truth of the real world that everyone else lives in. Especially trans people. We are not about to be defined by your boundless ignorance about us. Your fact-averse delusions about who and what we are are meaningless to us. So blow it out your bigoted ass.


    You absolutely do not understand the first thing about our situation, but the deranged confidence that your ignorance gives you allows you to blithely and stupidly chalk it all up to hedonism. Because, Bill, hedonism is something that you do understand. Oh boy do you and the rest of the MAGA Hats understand it. (You just can't keep yourself from employing that Republican projection, can you.)

    There is nothing that typifies the right more than hedonism. Everything they do is for their own personal aggrandizement and self-centered pleasure. They even stretch their hedonism to the point that if they are unhappy simply living in the same country with some minority they don't like, that minority must be despised or disenfranchised or run out of town or stripped of their Constitutional rights or outlawed or hindered or harassed or dragged behind a pickup truck or hung from a tree or blown up in a parade or shot in the fukking face with an assault rifle at a dance club or in a synagogue.

    All simply because that minority's very existence interferes with Conservative Republicans' uninterrupted pleasure and enjoyment of this country that they believe belongs only to them and them alone.

    Now THAT is some world class Hedonism for you Bill!


    All we trans folk are trying to do is live our lives without constant pain and torment. Like we've had to live in for millennia. And we have found a way to live that allows us (as does the Constitution) to do that and it causes no harm or inconvenience to anyone else in society at all. And yet, according to you psychopathic dogma junkies, we are going to rape children in bathrooms and turn them all into shemale prostitutes in our schools.

    And now we're accused of hedonism of all things. Just because we want to live a life free of the abject torment and debilitating pain, that supposedly makes us hedonists. Just as if anyone suffering who takes a pain killer is only doing it out of hedonism to get the high. Fukk you, Bill. What a fukking asshole you are. What a disgusting, fukking pig-ignorant, sociopathic asshole you are.

    Amputees who use prosthetic devices to live as normal a life as possible...? Hedonists.

    Old people who take medications to combat arthritis...? Hedonists.

    Hearing impaired people who use hearing aids...? Hedonists.

    Parents who want their child to live an honest, happy, productive, and rewarding life...? Hedonists.

    All of them are hedonists in your book apparently, Bill. Because what we are doing is no different than what any of them are doing.


    A crutch is not a tool of hedonism, you stupid fukking hate-filled moron.


    I don't know of a single transgender person who in their youth wouldn't have taken a pill that made this pain go away. To make them "normal" in society's eyes. But there simply is nothing like that. There's nothing like that anymore than there is anything that could make a person gay or trans if that's not what they already were to begin with. All we have are ways of treating our pain and anguish. There is no "cure".

    So Bill lemme ask you, are you suggesting that, like trans people you accuse of simply being hedonists, you chose to be heterosexual simply because you thought it was going to bring you the least pain and most happiness and pleasure? Or did you simply always know that's what you were without even questioning it and that you couldn't change what you were, even if you wanted to and tried?

    Or... are you actually a closeted gay man who has secretly known what he was from his youth, but decided that acknowledging the truth about yourself to your friends and family would cause you far greater pain than you thought living this lie for your whole life would? You wouldn't be alone. There are plenty of gay and trans folk who make that same choice too unfortunately. Many of them end up attempting or actually committing suicide.

    But hey! If a trans or gay person denies what they are and goes ahead and suffers their entire life in personal hell while constantly on the verge of blowing their brains out, at least they couldn't be accused of hedonism!


    Stop listening to the bigoted and paranoid, theocratic dogma robots who are feeding you this flaming bullshit, Bill. Neither you nor they know anything real about the subject of transgender people, so you and they are in absolutely no position whatsoever to be making your pig-ignorant declarations about it.

    No one is going after children to make them trans. Nor is anyone going after your children so they can use their blood to make bread with. Curb your paranoia a tad if you're capable. You've really gone off the deep end this time.

    Which, considering how far down deep you started from, is really saying something.


  29. by Ponderer on March 6, 2023 9:36 am

    Wow. that was a goodie! I think I might post that on Facebook.

    You wouldn't mind if I included a hyperlink with every mention of your name to you on there would you Bill...? I'm sure you'll welcome all the kudos you'll get from all the other brain dead mongoloids you chum around with....


  30. by HatetheSwamp on March 6, 2023 9:48 am

    po,

    You entirely mischaracterized my post. But, I'm not surprised.

    I'm talking about the politics of this conflict. From the beginning, I've always been talking its politics. I said:

    "I think that, in the US "democracy," the SwampDems are pushing to institutionalize the hate of organized religion and to give to hedonism the role that institutionalized religion plays in the lives of adherents to Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

    "In this sense, progressives, and liberal SwampDems specifically, are the ones mounting a religious crusade."

    You wanna know what's going on in this increasingly white hot debate?

    This is a religious crusade being conducted by American progressive SwampLovers devoting their resources to ending institutionalized, traditional religions with those religion's notions of sexual and gender ethics...

    ...and, to replace those values with the values of American progressive SwampLovers.

    And, the pushback is that of people defending themselves against a religious crusade.

    Gird your, uh, loins.


  31. by Ponderer on March 6, 2023 9:53 am

    "So, if you fall somewhere on the LGBT spectrum, truth is to live according to the hedonist's essential dogma, i.e., the pursuit of pleasure is the highest truth. All other truth must be subservient to the power of pleasure." -Hate

    Fukk you, Bill. You go ahead and frantically try to obfuscate the inhuman sociopathy of what you said however you want to.

    It was obvious what you meant. You were pretty blatant about it.


  32. by Ponderer on March 6, 2023 9:58 am

    "And, the pushback is that of people defending themselves against a religious crusade." -Hate

    What pathetic, baseless, delusional projecting from a hedonist desperately trying to justify his hedonism. Fukk you Bill.


    By the way, I posted a picture of you on my Facebook page along with my last screed. But don't worry. I didn't hyperlink to your name.

    Much as I wanted to...


  33. by HatetheSwamp on March 6, 2023 10:32 am

    "So, if you fall somewhere on the LGBT spectrum, truth is to live according to the hedonist's essential dogma, i.e., the pursuit of pleasure is the highest truth. All other truth must be subservient to the power of pleasure." -Hate

    Fukk you, Bill. You go ahead and frantically try to obfuscate the inhuman sociopathy of what you said however you want to.


    Fine, po. I've been following progressive SwampLoving public school teachers' secret attempts to justify, among other things, their efforts to encourage young students to pursue gender transition, while going out of the way to subvert the efforts of the parents of those children to raise their own sons and daughters according to their values.

    My paragraph summarizes the rationale of those teachers as I understand it. Please correct me and provide the philosophy behind their behavior if, indeed, you think I'm wrong.


  34. by Ponderer on March 6, 2023 10:50 am

    "I've been following progressive SwampLoving public school teachers' secret attempts to justify, among other things, their efforts to encourage young students to pursue gender transition, while going out of the way to subvert the efforts of the parents of those children to raise their own sons and daughters according to their values.

    My paragraph summarizes the rationale of those teachers as I understand it. Please correct me and provide the philosophy behind their behavior if, indeed, you think I'm wrong."
    -Hate

    So... You've been following their secret attempts, have you? You are an authority on their efforts to encourage children into transitioning, are you? You are an expert on teachers' attempts to make children into what their parents do not want them to be, are you, you thoroughly demented lunatic?


    Then I suppose you will have no trouble whatsoever of providing us with just one single example of this absurd idiocy you are blathering about then, eh? Let's have it then, you fukking asshole. Give us an example of exactly what you are talking about, you allegedly Christian bullshitting bigot.

    Give us just one example from your vast plethora of compiled data of a teacher encouraging any student to "pursue gender transition", and I will eat my words, you disgusting fukking asshole.



  35. by Interested on March 6, 2023 11:00 am
    This has wandered off into the fantasy world s many Americans fall into when thinking of their Constitution and "way of life."The pursuit of happiness is unrelated to hedonism. Hedonism is transient pleasures. Happiness is a permanent state of overall satisfaction. Your founders would have been horrified at any thought of the "people" experiencing pleasure. They were "grey" men who considered work and worship to be the purpose of life.

    The charge of government overreach during the pandemic is almost amusing. The USA has the worst experience of the major Western democracies because of governmental "underreach. You have almost 1.2 million deaths: half of them before Trump allowed government to take serious action. That death toll would have been halved or better if vaccination had been pushed and masking and limits on gathering numbers had been enforced. the dark corners that they fitted so well.Your death rate is three times that of Canada where governments acted to protect the population and pushed the pushbackers back into the dark corners that they fitted so well.

    Ponderer gave an emotional lesson on the sufferings of transgender people so that needs no more comment from me. I have seen it in the daughter of my daughter's best friends. Her transition is underway and her life has risen from that Hell to a not yet fully adjusted social role but out of her misery.

    Is repeat that I think the "pursuit of Happiness" is your equivalent to our clause that states that the Charter does not derogate from any existing rights that are not mentioned. That it includes natural rights and that the ability to live in one's true identity is a natural right. Most democracies have now accepted that and have legislated the freedom. It is not an excuse to say that America is slow. It is only slow to enact it into law and it is inexcusable to legislate against it. Governments do not have to wait for something to become socially acceptable to a majority. They have the duty and the obligation to lead and to ensure that justice be done. Something the Supreme Court jus=dges should be apprised of. Courts are not merely bodies that interpret law: they are bound to alter law where the law is in Dickensian language "an ass."



  36. by HatetheSwamp on March 6, 2023 11:10 am

    Then I suppose you will have no trouble whatsoever of providing us with just one single example of this absurd idiocy you are blathering about then, eh?

    po,

    No trouble at all...

    ...and we've been there and done it. I follow Libs of TikTok, which presents the moral dumpster fire that is the LGBT, especially T, political agenda as it's carried out in public schools among our young children. I've invited you to join me in following. My guess is that you're choosing to do that ostrich thing. I can't help that. Ignorance is your choice.


  37. by Ponderer on March 6, 2023 11:10 am

    Here here, Int! It's nice to have you back.


  38. by Ponderer on March 6, 2023 11:28 am

    "No trouble at all..." -Hate

    Wonderful, Bill! Then please post it with all speed. I can't wait...!


  39. by oldedude on March 6, 2023 1:39 pm
    Most democracies have now accepted that and have legislated the freedom.

    1.It is not an excuse to say that America is slow. It is only slow to enact it into law and it is inexcusable to legislate against it.

    2. Governments do not have to wait for something to become socially acceptable to a majority. They have the duty and the obligation to lead and to ensure that justice be done.

    3. Something the Supreme Court jus=dges should be apprised of. Courts are not merely bodies that interpret law: they are bound to alter law where the law is in Dickensian language "an ass."


    So your reasoning is sound. If you were Canadian. Many of the things you spoke about are illegal in our system.

    1. If the laws are legislated on the federal level, it will never pass SCOTUS because of the limitation of our federal branch. Most of the laws like this (abortion, etc) are state laws. That's where they're required to be. For better or worse.

    2. That's why some states have the laws. Some don't. (refer to #1)

    3. In our system, the sole responsibility of the appellate court system (both state and federal) is only to review lawfulness of cases (mostly procedural issues) and if a law violates our constitution or laws. They don't have the power or jurisdiction to even suggest new laws.


  40. by HatetheSwamp on March 6, 2023 2:04 pm

    This has wandered off into the fantasy world s many Americans fall into when thinking of their Constitution and "way of life. The pursuit of happiness is unrelated to hedonism.

    Int'd,

    The notion of "the pursuit of happiness" ain't in the US Constitution.


  41. by Ponderer on March 7, 2023 9:15 am

    "The notion of "the pursuit of happiness" ain't in the US Constitution." -Hate

    And yet you and your fellow hedonists act like your happiness at the cost of others' basic Constitutional rights and safety was carved by God onto marble tablets or something.

    You flaming hypocrites disgust me.


  42. by oldedude on March 10, 2023 5:24 pm
    It's in the Declaration of Independence. So in fact, it is pretty much etched in our Founding Fathers general view of what they as a group, wanted out of this government after living under the thumb of Jorge.

    This is something that is still a large part of "America." Small government, limited powers to the national government that are spelled out in the Constitution, and the ability for the government NOT to intervene in the lives of it's citizens as much as possible. And also NOT to use the same hierarchy of royals that Monarchies have. So that each person has the "right" to make as much or as little of themselves as they desire.
    theguardian.com


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