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If the Republicans paralyze Congress over this normally perfunctory vote...
By Curt_Anderson
January 5, 2023 3:33 pm
Category: Government

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how often and for how long will they shut down the government on budgetary and other issues in which they wield control? They will be at loggerheads frequently. The GOP is chockful of antigovernment types who are happy presiding over a dysfunctional Congress.

I cannot imagine any Republican being an effective Speaker of the House. It will be two years of chaos punctuated by shutdowns and little in the way of accomplishments.

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Comments on "If the Republicans paralyze Congress over this normally perfunctory vote...":

  1. by HatetheSwamp on January 6, 2023 2:59 am

    This has been my point all along. GOPs don't govern well.

    What they do well is obstruct the Dems from executing insanity if the Dems are unchecked.

    Having said that, think about what libertarians are FOR, if you're even capable of understanding that. They're for the government providing for the nation's defense and essential government services. They won't obstruct necessary things.

    What pb will be watching for is what they do when Joey and the Dems propose, say, their next, for example, $1 trillion infrastructure bill that is, again, 2/3 pork. If they're not hypocrites that's where they'll go crazy. And, that's what you SwampLovers won't consider.

    The difference between SwampConservatives and the antiSwamp is that a Kevin McCarthy would object to big time lib spending bill, rush out in front of the press, then call the White House and promise to support it in the end if you, uh, build a new gymn at the university in my district. AntiSwampers won't go for that. We'll see. pb will be watching.


  2. by Donna on January 6, 2023 9:50 am

    It's looking like the Freedom Caucus holdouts are finally breaking for McCarthy... after reducing him to a puppet.



  3. by HatetheSwamp on January 6, 2023 9:53 am

    McCarthy has already lost less than half way through the roll call.


  4. by Donna on January 6, 2023 10:02 am

    7 of the 13 have flipped for McCarthy.


  5. by HatetheSwamp on January 6, 2023 10:26 am

    McCarthy picked up 12, including Scott Perry and Chip Roy, the serious antiSwampers who'd been opposing McCarthy.

    Most of the outliers may, simply, be motivated by a personal grudge. There's still some drama remaining.


  6. by oldedude on January 6, 2023 10:46 am
    "The GOP is chockful of antigovernment types who are happy presiding over a dysfunctional Congress."

    I know the MSM that is your bible tells you to say that, so you absolutely will. What's interesting is these people have actually read the constitution. What they hold dear are the set of dreams you hate. Things like smaller federal government like the constitution says. Separation of powers like the constitution says(meaning DOJ is not a gestapo for the Administration like it is now), that the constitution limits the federal government to a finite number of powers, that the first power and responsibility of a government is to keep it's people safe, and that the RIGHT to own a gun shall not be infringed. These are just a few of my favorite things. These are also things liberals don't believe in.

    Liberals want larger government, government running every phase of their lives, allowing the government to "control" the citizens with heavy-handed practices that violate the constitution, to keep the people in fear of both the government and others, and to take away all guns except to the government.

    So who's the "antigovernment types." I'm sure you're going to give me some BS (which I absolutely believe is BS) that a one hour riot, is equal to a summer of riots that costs $20BIL, inwhich several government buildings were burned.


  7. by HatetheSwamp on January 6, 2023 11:07 am

    Liberals want larger government, government running every phase of their lives,

    They also want the voice of the people to be muffled as much as it can be...


  8. by Donna on January 6, 2023 11:07 am

    The Freedom Caucus holdouts don't want to accept something basic that the far left progressives also don't want to accept: that in a democracy (or representative republic if you prefer,) you often have to compromise with people you don't agree with. That's happening internally within the GOP right now.



  9. by HatetheSwamp on January 6, 2023 11:19 am

    Sorry, Donna. That's horse puckey. The far left progressives happily submitted to the strong arm, fascist tyranny of Nancy Pelosi. Kevin McCarthy wanted to hold on to all the power that Pelosi amassed in the Speaker's chair. To pry some of that away, the Freedom Caucus had to fight while your far left progressives belittled and mocked it for standing for the principle that the people's House should be the people's House, not the Speaker's House.

    So, don't even try to equate those feeble, compliant, subservient progressives to the courageous GOP fighters for freedom.


  10. by Donna on January 6, 2023 11:28 am

    They didn't "happily" submit; they realized that they were in the vast minority and put the will of the many over the will of the few.

    You don't believe in compromise, which means that you don't believe in representative democracy. You would destroy America to get your way.


  11. by oldedude on January 6, 2023 12:09 pm
    Lead, actually you don't believe in strong arming, threats, and bribery.


  12. by oldedude on January 6, 2023 12:29 pm
    Curt talks like the dims have never shut down the government.... Here's some examples... Longest shutdowns were under Obama and Clinton. This could be long, but I think Obama and Clinton will still hold the record.

    President Jimmy Carter
    Friday, Sept. 30 to Thursday, Oct. 13, 1977. Duration (full days): 12 days
    Monday, Oct. 31 to Wednesday, Nov. 9, 1977. Duration (full days): 8 days
    Wednesday, Nov. 30 to Friday, Dec. 9, 1977. Duration (full days): 8 days

    There were three shutdowns, referred to as the "abortion shutdowns," in the late 1970s under the presidency of Jimmy Carter. The Democratic party may have dominated both the House and the Senate, but they couldn't get Republicans on board when it came to using Medicaid to pay for abortions.

    Saturday, Sept. 30 to Wednesday, Oct. 18, 1978. Duration (full days): 17 days

    In 1978, Carter vetoed a $37 billion defense authorization bill, which included a $2 billion nuclear-powered Nimitz-class aircraft carrier -- equipment he didn't consider essential to national security, The Washington Post reported. This led to the second largest shutdown in the history of the nation.

    Sunday, Sept. 30 to Friday, Oct. 12, 1979. Duration (full days): 11 days

    Total of 56 days.

    President Ronald Reagan
    Friday, Nov. 20 to Monday, Nov. 23, 1981. Duration (full days): 2 days

    President Ronald Reagan vetoed a spending bill because it didn't make enough cuts.

    Thursday, Sept. 30 to Saturday, Oct. 2, 1982. Duration (full days): 1 day

    The government shut down for one day when Congress failed to pass the spending bill on time.

    Friday, Dec. 17 to Tuesday, Dec., 21, 1982. Duration (full days): 3 days

    Both the House and Senate wanted to increase public works spending in order to create more jobs -- a move Reagan opposed. The House also opposed MX missile funding, which, The Washington Post noted, was a "major defense priority" of Reagan's.

    Thursday, Nov. 10 to Monday, Nov. 14, 1983. Duration (full days): 3 days

    Reagan argued over the Democratic-controlled House's proposed foreign aid and spending cuts and their plea for an increase in funding for education. At the same time, Reagan was pushing for more funding for the MX missile.

    Eventually, both parties reached an agreement.

    Sunday, Sept. 30 to Wednesday, Oct. 3, 1984. Duration (full days): 2 days

    In short, Reagan agreed to the House's proposed crime-fighting package, but he opposed their water projects package.

    "Reagan offered to forgo his crime bill in exchange for junking the water package...but a deal wasn't reached in time to avoid a brief shutdown," The Washington Post reported.

    Wednesday, Oct. 3 to Friday, Oct. 5, 1984. Duration (full days): 1 day

    Lawmakers reportedly needed another day to discuss the spending bill.

    Thursday, Oct. 16 to Saturday, Oct. 18, 1986. Duration (full days): 1 day

    The Democratic-controlled House was once again in disagreement with Reagan and the Republican-controlled Senate. This time, over a welfare package deal.

    Friday, Dec. 18 to Sunday, Dec. 20, 1987. Duration (full days): 1 day

    Reagan and Democrats couldn't agree on funding for Nicaraguan "Contra" militants. Democrats also pushed to reinstate the "Fairness Doctrine," which required licensed broadcasters to give equal air time for people with competing political points of view.

    President George H.W. Bush
    Friday, Oct. 5 to Tuesday, Oct. 9, 1990. Duration (full days): 3 days

    Only one shutdown took place during George H.W. Bush’s presidency. It occurred in October 1990 after Bush vetoed a stopgap spending bill, The New York Times reported at the time.

    But the timing was right. The shutdown happened over Columbus Day weekend and most federal workers were already off for the holiday.

    President Bill Clinton
    Monday, Nov. 13 to Sunday, Nov. 19, 1995. Duration (full days): 5 days

    President Bill Clinton vetoed a continuing resolution in November 1995 over Medicare premium increases.

    "The government is partially shutting down because Congress has failed to pass the straightforward legislation necessary to keep the government running without imposing sharp hikes in Medicare premiums and deep cuts in education and the environment," Clinton said during an address on Nov. 14, 1995.

    Friday, Dec. 15, 1995, to Saturday, Jan. 6, 1996. Duration (full days): 21 days

    It's the second longest shutdown in U.S. history: 21 days.

    The government shut down after Clinton vetoed the spending bill proposed by the Republican-controlled Congress.

    After a long three weeks, the president and Congress agreed to a seven-year budget plan, which included "modest spending cuts and tax increases," according to research by the Regional Oral History Office at the University of California, Berkeley.

    President Barack ObamaBold
    Monday, Sept. 30 to Thursday, Oct. 17, 2013. Duration (full days): 16 days

    Seventeen years later, the government shut down once again. Lawmakers couldn't come to an agreement on the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, in 2013.

    The House passed several versions of the bill to fund the government. But each time, the Senate sent it back.

    “This is an unnecessary blow to America,” Harry Reid, the Senate Democratic leader at the time, said of the shutdown.

    John Boehner, the House speaker during the shutdown, said Republicans were fighting to keep the government open, but the Senate "continued to reject our offers.”

    President Donald Trump
    Trump to address farmers as longest government shutdown sees no end in
    Saturday, Jan. 20 to Monday, Jan. 22, 2018. Duration (full days): 3 days

    When it comes to immigration and spending, President Donald Trump and Republican lawmakers and Democrats were divided.

    Republicans controlled the Senate but they still needed 60 votes to break a filibuster.

    "When you only have 51 votes in the Senate, then you have to have Democrat support in order to keep the government — to fund the government," OMB Director Mick Mulvaney told reporters during a White House press briefing Friday.

    Democrats said from the beginning that they'd reject any deal that didn't include a legislative fix for the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, an Obama-era program, which offers protection for immigrants — also known as "Dreamers" — who came into the U.S. illegally as minors.

    “I'm proud of the House and Senate Democrats' unity in insisting on a budget that supports our military and the domestic investments that keep our nation strong and honors the values by protecting our DREAMers," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said in a statement as the government shut down.

    Trump, on the other hand, said Democrats only had themselves to blame when it came to both shutting down the government and failing to make a deal on DACA.

    PARTIAL GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN TIMELINE: FROM TRUMP'S DEMANDS TO DEMOCRATS' PROPOSALS

    "Deals can’t get made when there is no trust! Durbin blew DACA and is hurting our Military," Trump tweeted. "DACA is probably dead because the Democrats don’t really want it, they just want to talk and take desperately needed money away from our Military."

    In the end, Democrats reached a compromise to reopen the government through Feb. 8 — with one condition.

    “After several discussions, offers, counter-offers, the Republican leader and I have come to an arrangement," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-NY, said on the Senate floor. "We will vote today to reopen the government to continue negotiating a global agreement, with the commitment that, if an agreement isn’t reached by February 8, the Senate will immediately proceed to consideration of legislation dealing with DACA.”

    Friday, Feb. 9, 2018. Duration: 9 hours

    Republican and Democratic senators announced a two-year budget agreement on Feb. 7 that included an increase in military spending, an extension for the Children’s Health Insurance Program and additional funds for disaster relief, among other issues.

    "I am pleased to announce that our bipartisan, bicameral negotiations on defense spending and other priorities have yielded a significant agreement," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said in a speech on the House floor.

    It's a deal "neither side loves, but both sides can be proud of," Senate Minority Leader Schumer, D-N.Y., added.

    But not everyone was a fan of the deal.

    House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., slammed the plan for not addressing immigration.

    "[The] package does nothing to advance bipartisan legislation to protect Dreamers in the House," said Pelosi, as she shared the stories of "Dreamers" on the House floor for more than eight hours. "Without a commitment from Speaker Ryan comparable to the commitment from Leader McConnell, this package does not have my support."

    Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., also voiced his frustration with the deal, which he said irresponsibly busted through budget caps and increased the country's deficit even more.

    "I ran for office because I was very critical of President Obama's trillion-dollar deficits," Paul said. "Now we have Republicans hand in hand with Democrats offering us trillion-dollar deficits. I can't in all honesty look the other way."

    A last-minute maneuver by Paul led to an hours-long shutdown.

    In the end, Congress agreed to pass the $400 billion deal and it was on Trump's desks within hours. He announced that he had signed the bill at 8:40 a.m. ET.

    When: Saturday, Dec. 22, 2018. Duration: Friday, Jan. 25, 2019

    Democrats and President Trump were at an impasse over a spending bill – particularly in regards to funding for border security. As a result, and just ahead of Christmas, the government partially shuttered at midnight on Dec. 22.

    Trump had urged Senate Republicans to use the so-called “nuclear option” to pass a spending bill that included enough funding for a border wall. The House scrambled to put together a package that included the $5.7 billion the president wanted but was unable to agree on a deal to fund the government by the deadline.

    Trump has warned a closure could drag on “for a very long time.” When it surpassed the 22-day mark on Jan. 12, it became the longest government shutdown in U.S. history.
    foxnews.com


  13. by HatetheSwamp on January 6, 2023 12:37 pm

    Yeah, OD. Where Curt's Good German-ism has come from baffles me. I'm still suspecting that he's joshin us.

    Anyway? Good post.


  14. by Donna on January 6, 2023 12:45 pm

    Where did Curt say that the Democrats never shut down the government? IDK, I'm just asking because I don't recall him ever making that claim.



  15. by Donna on January 6, 2023 1:45 pm

    ...or "talk[ing] like it".

    "Lead, actually you don't believe in strong arming, threats, and bribery." - od

    Lead didn't answer. Maybe you should ask Lead's buddy, Hts.

    I think it's pretty obvious that he believes in strong arming, though, because that's what's going on right now and he seems to be getting a big kick out of it.




  16. by oldedude on January 6, 2023 2:08 pm
    Where did Curt say that the Democrats never shut down the government? IDK, I'm just asking because I don't recall him ever making that claim.

    how often and for how long will they shut down the government on budgetary and other issues in which they wield control? They will be at loggerheads frequently. The GOP is chockful of antigovernment types who are happy presiding over a dysfunctional Congress.

    I don't think you're telling the truth about smoking weed.


  17. by HatetheSwamp on January 6, 2023 2:16 pm

    Lead believe in strong arming, threats, and bribery?

    No.

    But, in DC?, who can doubt they will always happen. Of course, pb thinks that trashing the Swamp with reduce their role.

    As I've pointed out, dozens of times, the Dem party, with its roots in Tammany Hall, Jim Crow and "vote early and vote often," will always function from that sort of corruption. As long as Dems exist, our politics will be ugly.

    And, that's courage among the antiSwamp is so crucial.


  18. by oldedude on January 6, 2023 2:26 pm
    Sorry lead, that was a tongue in cheek remark about what is thought of you. Not what you actually believe. The two are polar opposites. My bad it wasn't clear.


  19. by Donna on January 7, 2023 7:27 am

    od - In no way does that show that Curt said or implied what you claim he said or implied.





  20. by Curt_Anderson on January 7, 2023 10:11 am
    Donna,
    Thank you for calling OD’s BS on my behalf. I never said it and I don’t even think what OD claims I said.

    This Republican led Congress will be moving at a glacial pace. The cuckoo caucus will continue their war against a functioning government (you know, “the swamp”). I have no complaints, though, as the Republicans will alienate their own voters, including senior citizens.

    McCarthy’s conservative critics have demanded that any move to raise the nation’s debt ceiling — which allows the government to borrow money to pay its obligations — must be accompanied by cuts in the nation’s entitlement programs, including Social Security and Medicare. And a provision of the new House rules package requires a separate vote on hiking the debt limit.


  21. by oldedude on January 7, 2023 11:08 am
    Sender=>Message=>Receiver. That's what I got out of it. If you need her to cover for you, that's fine.

    This administration is so stupid, and expects us to fall for their "redefinition" of "recession" like it's a real thing. Only the stoopidist actually fell for that line.
    "McCarthy’s conservative critics have demanded that any move to raise the nation’s debt ceiling — which allows the government to borrow money to pay its obligations — must be accompanied by cuts in the nation’s entitlement programs, including Social Security and Medicare. And a provision of the new House rules package requires a separate vote on hiking the debt limit."

    I agree with that. pedojoe is trashing our economy by spending. That's the last thing you do. But again, pedojoe's objective is to ruin us so we can live the Liberal world order "dream."

    Forbes
    "America is engaging in an unprecedented spending spree. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates that the infrastructure proposal and the proposed $3.5 trillion reconciliation spending plan will result in $2.9 trillion (about $8,900 per person) of additional government borrowing over the next decade. This debt will not solve our problems. America needs more private sector innovation to solve our biggest challenges—uplifting the poor, healing the sick, and protecting the planet—not more government spending and top-down regulation.

    If all this proposed spending occurs, the federal debt is likely to hit 109% of GDP by 2031 but could get as high as 125%. This would surpass the debt-to-GDP ratio in the years immediately following World War II.


    Written in 2021, but the basics haven't changed

    The government can contribute to inflation through excessive spending; as the money supply grows, so does the price of goods and services. The latest $1.9 trillion stimulus package is a good example. Only a fraction of appropriations went toward coronavirus-related initiatives. Some targeted government spending is important, but funding pet projects should be avoided. An example of warranted spending was the Paycheck Protection Program, which passed last year to assist small businesses during the pandemic. These funds had specific intentions and were renewed as needed.

    As the economy continues to regain its stability, Congress should think twice before passing additional, non-targeted COVID relief bills. Too much inflation will throttle future economic progress.


    So. If you and your wife are spending too much, what do you do? get a higher cost loan? That makes no sense. You cut your spending and get back on track to keep your credit intact. I guess there's no school for real world experience...
    forbes.com
    informationstation.org


  22. by oldedude on January 8, 2023 3:25 am
    This is a pretty good list of the negotiated terms between FC and McCarthy. I think it lays it out well and is quoted from first-year Congressman Andrew Ogles from the Tennessee Fifth District.

    I know this is not complete. There were some plays to be in committees, etc, which is what the squad did to Pelosi when they came in. The difference is there were four of them, there are 20-21 so far identified in the Freedom Caucus. This is not a right or wrong, just a difference. I understand why they wanted these, and I understand why others with seniority are not happy with it (with both the squad and FC).

    My view is that I like "most" of them, but there are exceptions, so I'm not hook, line, and sinker on board.

    I also wanted to quote this so I'm not putting my "opinion" in this without the everyone knowing.

    So the Kabuki theater played out. Each step was as choreographed as well as Swan Lake.

    "Ogles informed me that what many had guessed was true. His absence from voting in a previous round was also planned. He waited to see that all was going according to plan before stepping forward to flip his vote to McCarthy after the initial round.

    For Ogles, the basis of all the negotiations was to establish the rules of the game in Congress that had been altered over the years beyond recognition. As he pointed out, the rules of a game almost always determine the winner.

    He shared with me a list of some of what has been roughly negotiated to date. The devil, as always, is in the details.

    -As has been reported, it will only take a single congressperson, acting in what is known as a Jeffersonian Motion, to move to remove the Speaker if he or she goes back on their word or policy agenda.

    -A “Church” style committee will be convened to look into the weaponization of the FBI and other government organizations (presumably the CIA, the subject of the original Church Committee) against the American people.

    -Term limits will be put up for a vote.

    -Bills presented to Congress will be single subject, not omnibus with all the attendant earmarks, and there will be a 72-hour minimum period to read them.

    -The Texas Border Plan will be put before Congress. From The Hill: “The four-pronged plan aims to ‘Complete Physical Border Infrastructure,’ ‘Fix Border Enforcement Policies,’ ‘Enforce our Laws in the Interior’ and ‘Target Cartels & Criminal Organizations.’”

    -COVID mandates will be ended as will all funding for them, including so-called “emergency funding.”

    -Budget bills would stop the endless increases in the debt ceiling and hold the Senate accountable for the same."

    theepochtimes.com
    en.wikipedia.org


  23. by HatetheSwamp on January 8, 2023 4:03 am

    COVID mandates will be ended as will all funding for them, including so-called “emergency funding.”


    I think either po or Donna suggested that America is safe because nuthin the House does can become law without the cooperation of the Senate.

    This is where that comfort is shattered:

    NOTHING "THAT FECKLESS DEMENTIA-RIDDEN PIECE OF CRAP" AND THE DEM SENATE DOES CAN BECOME LAW WITHOUT THE COOPERATION OF THE HOUSE.

    So, all you progressive SwampLovers?, you can kiss Big Brother-ism goodbye...if accomplishing it requires congressional authority. So, if President Clouseau can't do it by Executive Order? Bahahahahahahahahahaha!


  24. by oldedude on January 8, 2023 4:52 am
    This has really been an issue. He wants to get rid of Title 42 so he is not obligated to close the border in any way, but he wants to keep it open to enforce mandates.

    The GOP on the other hand, wants to keep Title 42, but open the US up and running without restrictions.

    To both sides, you can't have both.

    I think it's prudent to screen those coming in for things like TB, emphysema, HIV, Polio, and a whole bunch of other stuff you don't see often in the US, but parents aren't getting their children immunized for anymore.

    Me? I'm up on my cholera, smallpox, typhoid, typhus routines if that tells you anything. My two boys are also caught up with everything but COVID. The family here is really adamantly anti-vax, which I have a problem with. I don't care for them as much as the little people. Again, people using 45 year old information and rumours.


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