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Law selectors, pages, etc.
J6 committee to urge DOJ to prosecute Trump
By Curt_Anderson
December 16, 2022 4:21 pm
Category: Law

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Among the charges that subcommittee proposes for Trump: 18 U.S.C. 2383, insurrection; 18 U.S.C. 1512(c), obstruction of an official proceeding; and 18 U.S.C. 371, conspiracy to defraud the United States government.

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Comments on "J6 committee to urge DOJ to prosecute Trump":

  1. by oldedude on December 16, 2022 5:42 pm
    I thought you said J6 wasn't about Trump? mmmmm....


  2. by HatetheSwamp on December 17, 2022 2:26 am

    OD,

    Neither of us support Trump.

    But, speaking for myself, I'll say that any person who loves the Constitution and the due process that is the foundation of our liberty has to loathe what is being done to Trump. What the J6 Committee is doing proves to me that our constitutional republic is more fragile than I, anyway, could have dreamed.


  3. by oldedude on December 17, 2022 5:03 am
    That's been the issue with the sheep. If you ask for constitutional adherence and due process, they have every reason, excuse, and justification that they don't have to. To be pro constitution means sometimes (well, sometimes alot) you have to support someone you dislike on lawful grounds. They don't understand, the person and the act against them are two entirely different things.

    I've supported billy cliton, whom I loathe because that was a witch hunt. Did he lie? Yes. Did they hound him until they caught him? yes. Of course, the other side is that if he hadn't been the president, he would have been fired for an abuse of power, and a quid pro quo from someone in a position of power. But that's not the charge.

    Here we have six years of trials. The left demands there be due process against any dim, but again, every excuse, reason, and justification is used to violate due process in their kangaroo courts.

    As much as you and I talk about the constitution and due process, they always go back to the same thing. We're Trumpsters. Unless we want the same thing for a dim, then we're okay and we support the dims. The answer is always, "no, we support the constitution. In this case, this and this is wrong." Sometimes I wish we had the same dogma, then we wouldn't have to worry about facts. Life would be so much easier.....


  4. by islander on December 17, 2022 5:22 am

    This is good news. And as all of this unfolds it makes it more and more likely that Trump will actually be held accountable for his crimes. A year ago I had far less confidence than I do now...And the good news just keeps pouring in! 👍


  5. by HatetheSwamp on December 17, 2022 5:35 am

    isle,

    One thing I can say about you is that your Trump derangement is unabashed. You get giddy like a teenybopper at the prospect of Trump suffering. There certainly can be joy in your subjectivity. Good for you!


  6. by oldedude on December 17, 2022 5:40 am
    Lead,
    That would be a teeneybopper going to a boyband concert.

    We believe the process over-rides the person. If it's a person we like, but the process is good, then you get what you get. If it's a person we don't like, and the process is wrong or nonexistent, then it's wrong.
    Obviously, very different with others. (see above)


  7. by islander on December 17, 2022 5:51 am

    Looking forward to Monday !!! 🍻


  8. by islander on December 17, 2022 6:53 am

    "On Monday the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the U.S. Capitol will hold its final public meeting. Today, Kyle Cheney and Nicholas Wu of Politico reported that the committee will vote on referring former president Trump to the Justice Department for at least three criminal charges. Those charges include insurrection, obstruction of an official proceeding, and conspiracy to defraud the U.S. government.

    Such a referral creates no legal obligation on the Department of Justice to act, but it certainly creates political pressure. If a bipartisan congressional committee—and the January 6th committee has two Republicans on it, no matter how often Trump supporters say it is all Democrats—many of whose members are lawyers, tells the Justice Department it thinks crimes have been committed, the Department of Justice will need, at least, to explain why it disagrees.

    In the shorter term, though, Representative David Cicilline (D-RI) and 40 colleagues yesterday introduced a bill in which the term “insurrection” matters a lot. The measure bars Trump from holding office under the restrictions imposed by the Fourteenth Amendment. Written in 1866, after President Andrew Johnson had pardoned most of the Confederate ringleaders and constituents had voted them back into office, Congress wrote:

    “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.”

    The states ratified that amendment in 1868."
    *

    * H.C.R.


  9. by HatetheSwamp on December 17, 2022 7:08 am

    isle,

    Your gleeful teenybopper derangement is derivative, no doubt. But, your interpretation is spectacular, if not unique. Keeheeheeheeheeheeheehee, ha! Subjectivity is truth.


  10. by oldedude on December 17, 2022 7:10 am
    Lead and I keep getting told "this is not a trial" therefore, due process is not an issue. He would have to be found guilty in an actual court and trial.* How long do you think that's going to take? A year? Two? more? It can have an initial court date as close as three months (doubtful), and defense can make motions for another year. Or two.

    *If they try to use the committee's vote, or even the House's vote, it would be struck down by the courts for violation of 4th and 6th amendment issues. Prosecution would have to have a case where witnesses say they were there because of what Trump said. As of now, even with coercion, no one has said that.


  11. by HatetheSwamp on December 17, 2022 7:19 am

    Yeah, OD.

    Curt has said that Dems'll be welcomed to participate in the Biden Crime Family hearings...as if that's a, what?, sign of weakness? folly? among GOPs. There are moments that I'm happy to be old...I don't want to live in the nation that will be the legacy of today's progressive Swampcult.

    The J6 Committee hearings has been a deep bruise on the tuchus of America...and, there's a chance that it never will heal.



  12. by oldedude on December 17, 2022 7:57 am
    You and I believe the swamp is as dangerous as inbreeding for generations, except in this case, the fear isn't having three eyes and stoopid, it's about money. It's about the swamp creatures making millions of dollars on our backs, giving themselves pay raises, cheating on investments, and manipulating everyone and everything they come in contact with.

    One fairly common new thought is the people will rise against the swamp. My view is that "if" that would happen, it's going to be too late. Once Alinsky and Marx have fulfilled their duties to change us, it's too late for the people to reject it. They'll have supporters until near the end. And then they'll crush everything.


  13. by islander on December 17, 2022 8:34 am

    It's got to be depressing for the orange men to see everything they supported crumbling before their eyes. Yet I can't feel sorry for them, they brought it on themselves. For them, it's The Eve of Self Destruction !!


  14. by HatetheSwamp on December 17, 2022 9:34 am

    OD,

    It's a continuing source of amusement to me that the snappiest retort isle, and po too, can come up with is that we support Trump. Which we ain't! Then again, to them it's probably not to be Stage 4 TDS is to be an Ultra-MAGA. Bahahahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh!


  15. by Ponderer on December 17, 2022 11:56 am

    Oh that's not the only thing we retort upon regarding you and od, Bill.

    We also comment quite often upon your disgusting racism, your constant stream of lies and misrepresentations of us and various groups you are bigoted about, your pig-ignorant wilful blindness, your various and demented paranoias, and your baseless refusal to deal like adult human beings regarding the world of reality in general.

    Your support for Trump is the least of the retort-worthy blather you vomit in here.


  16. by Ponderer on December 17, 2022 12:02 pm

    Sorry about that, od. But lead-for-brains here chose to lump you in with himself, so I may have unjustly allowed him to share some blame for his idiocy that he was insisting on sharing responsibility with you for.

    I apologize.


  17. by islander on December 17, 2022 1:46 pm

    Both Hate and od are “Orange Men”. Orange Men are those who have consistently voted for Trump and enabled him to become president. They are still Orange Men even if they deny supporting Trump. The most powerful way to support a political candidate is to vote for him or her and to denigrate his or her opponent.


  18. by Donna on December 17, 2022 5:41 pm

    Biden was far from my first choice, but I have the "stones" to admit that since I voted for him in the general election, I support him.

    In any case, it's good to see patriots from both major political parties holding the perpetraitors of the Jan 6 insurrection accountable for their anti-American assault on our democratic republic. I wish Jack Smith and the DOJ much success in prosecuting them.


  19. by oldedude on December 17, 2022 6:41 pm
    isle,
    The flip side is that I would have to vote for a Marxist, Alinskyist who's only desire is to destruct the US. I spent 40 years trying to uphold the constitution, and now you want me to turn on it?

    Actually, that's an unfair question to you, a Marxist, Leninist, Alinskyist. Someone that wants the complete dismantling of the constitution and the US.


  20. by Donna on December 17, 2022 7:15 pm

    All of the self-described socialists I know consider President Biden a neoliberal and they all voted for Green Party nominee Howie Hawkins in the 2020 general election. I and others including my wife have engaged in long debates with them on Facebook, which sometimes devolved into heated arguments.

    ( Neoliberalism (also neo-liberalism[1]) is a term used to signify the late 20th century political reappearance of 19th-century ideas associated with free-market capitalism after it fell into decline following the Second World War.[2]: 7 [3] A prominent factor in the rise of conservative and libertarian organizations, political parties, and think tanks, and predominantly advocated by them,[4][5] it is generally associated with policies of economic liberalization, including privatization, deregulation, globalization, free trade, monetarism, austerity, and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society.[14] The defining features of neoliberalism in both thought and practice have been the subject of substantial scholarly debate.[15][16] )

    See link below for references.

    en.wikipedia.org


  21. by oldedude on December 17, 2022 8:13 pm
    Neoliberalism is not Marxism. Please read my Alensiy post. I think you'll find it "enlightened." His words, not mine. I call myself a "moderate." Do you agree with that? If not, maybe you need to look at your political goals when under the thought of a neutral party. Again, start first in WHAT you believe in and how you match with ideologies.


  22. by oldedude on December 17, 2022 8:27 pm
    "reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society."
    You have always supported government spending at the risk of it doubling inflation (via socialist medicine). This is exactly what Alinsky (via Marx) wants to do. He destroys the infrastructure with spending. That creates a chasm within the culture, which produces the "revolution" when the government doesn't provide that spending. In essence, the government is spending on itself. Thusly, the rich are richer, and have more control over access to information and goods and services.


  23. by Curt_Anderson on December 17, 2022 8:43 pm
    OD,
    No, I don't think you are a moderate. But I could be wrong. We could find out if you took the Political Compass Test and shared your results. See link below.
    politicalcompass.org


  24. by HatetheSwamp on December 18, 2022 3:47 am

    Oh that's not the only thing we retort upon regarding you and od, Bill.

    We also comment quite often upon your disgusting racism, your constant stream of lies and misrepresentations of us and various groups you are bigoted
    ...

    po,

    It was what?, just last week that OD and pb demonstrated appalling racism, especially from isle, in his own words. But, there's a softer racism, really, in most in the progressive Swampcult.

    Having said that, pb'd be happy to read your reasons for calling him a racist from pb's own words.



  25. by oldedude on December 18, 2022 3:50 am
    So I took the "test." In many cases, I didn't feel either way about a subject because it depends on the individual. When you make a statement that says all or most, There's a lot of situational information that I feel is included in the answer, and that's not for me to say.

    I am 1 point left, and 1 point up from centerline.


  26. by oldedude on December 18, 2022 4:13 am
    My point is that our perceptions of ourselves are based on the world around us. In my world, I am a moderate and much more liberal (and libertarian) than the people around me who are very conservative Christians. They believe there is only one way to be a Christian. There are no options, nor are there other "correct" churches. I consider myself Christian, but that's my decision alone. Does it guide me? sure. What also guides me is that I studied Buddhism for 45 years.


  27. by HatetheSwamp on December 18, 2022 4:32 am

    OD,

    You are moderate. More thoughtful even than merely moderate. pb thinks that one can't be thoughtful without a basis of moderation. That's my problem with isle's pinup girl, Heather. She's so thoroughly ruled by hate that she can't reason. But you?, you're grounded in reality and, therefore, can think.


  28. by oldedude on December 18, 2022 5:52 am
    I thought about this at breakfast. My guess is that I don't look much like a moderate to liberals. Especially when talking about hot button issues. These are discussion around core issues. Speaking about core issues can be very divisive and really, few people are willing to change their minds.

    You and I are considered off the rails conservative because we have made it clear that neither would vote for trump in the primaries, but if he got in, we would vote against the dim. This is the same logic Donna had about pedojoe. It's not really a vote for the person, it's a vote against the opposition. But of course, we can be attacked because we disagree that pedojoe is worse than any conservative we could muster.

    I also find it humorous that when "supporting" Trump, we're actually supporting (usually) due process and/or the constitution/ law. To them the person is the higher priority than the law. In our minds, it's the law first, then the person.


  29. by islander on December 18, 2022 6:13 am

    I’m quite pleased with the way President Biden is handling some of the most dangerous and difficult problems our country is faced with today. Most Americans saw the difference between Trump and Biden and used their good judgement at the polls and thankfully voted for Biden.



    Calling Biden childish names, and/or saying it was a choice between Trump and a Marxist, Alinskyist who's only desire is to destruct the US is nothing but foolish noise and diminishes the credibility of those posting such nonsense.


  30. by oldedude on December 18, 2022 8:59 am
    You would because you have no idea what a Marxist or Alinskyist is. He's right down that line, as are you.


  31. by islander on December 18, 2022 9:33 am

    "You would because you have no idea what a Marxist or Alinskyist is. He's right down that line, as are you."

    Is that your schoolyard argument? LoL !!! I suppose I should respond like a kid in the schoolyard, "Whatever you call me, you're a thousand times worse" !!! 🤣


  32. by Donna on December 18, 2022 2:22 pm

    "Neoliberalism is not Marxism." - od

    I know. All of the socialists I know didn't vote for Biden because they think he's a neoliberal. They all voted for Howie Hawkins.


  33. by oldedude on December 18, 2022 7:59 pm
    Isle- It was a statement of fact. You're one of their useful idiots. You just get told what to do, and you just put on your jackboots and goosestep out to do their bidding.

    Donna- Did you read the same post? That was my point earlier. What you "think" you are is also dependent on the folks you surround yourself with. I'm considered a "Moderate liberal" in my group, which I know isn't true, but that's their perception of me. With one or two exceptions, you're right down the Alinsky line. You're not a useful idiot as isle is, but you're a supporter. That's why I asked you to relook at what he says and make a choice from that.


  34. by Donna on December 18, 2022 11:35 pm

    I don't surfound myself with far lefties and socialists. I hardly ever converse with them anymore. They can't stand Biden. He's not nearly liberal enough for them.



  35. by islander on December 19, 2022 5:53 am

    My family is about divided, about 60/40 liberal/conservative. The conservative side was VERY vocal a couple of years ago.

    Funny thing is, the conservatives ALL have become very very quite these past couple of years. Can't say that I blame them, it must be very difficult for them.

    😀 Smiley thinks I should try to figure out a way to help them save face. This is why I believe 😀 Smiley is very wise !!!

    Here's to 😀 Smiley!!! 🍻



  36. by HatetheSwamp on December 19, 2022 6:39 am

    I don't believe you, isle. Since the Dems' election shenanigans, conservatives have been going bonkers. Even the non MAGAs. Maybe you ain't listnin. Sanctimonious Blue Ultra-MAGAs do that.


  37. by islander on December 19, 2022 7:08 am

    The reason you don't believe me, Hate, is probably due to the fact that the my family and people I interact with have more intellectual integrity that the people you quote.

    I understand their shame at being taken in by a carnival huckster and con man, all the way up to being fooled into voting for him. Even on Facebook virtually none of them want to talk about Trump any more. They remain very quite when his name comes up.


  38. by HatetheSwamp on December 19, 2022 7:15 am

    Thing is, isle, almost everyone I know. Family, friend, neighbor, is more conservative than am I. I follow right wing media carefully. Your characterization of conservatives flies in the face of everything I experience daily.

    Your family may be bonkers but my guess is that you are the one who's bonkers...or, as po'd say, prevaricating. Real world, there, isle. Real world.


  39. by Donna on December 19, 2022 7:34 am

    islander- I have one friend like that. She's from my old neighborhood outside of Baltimore. We were in the same high school graduating class. Before Trump she was always talking politics and posting group shots from the women's Republican Club she was president of. She never brings up politics anymore. Neither do I to her.


  40. by islander on December 19, 2022 7:37 am

    Like I said, Hate, "my family and people I interact with have more intellectual integrity that the people you quote." For you, as you told us so many times, subjectivity is truth. You probably don't realize it but that flies in the face of intellectual integrity.


    Intellectual integrity involves both seeking and valuing the truth; being systematically critical of truth claims via analyzing assumptions and looking for evidence; being true to one’s intellectual understanding of the world; and being willing to change that understanding in light of new information. The institution of science epitomizes the values of intellectual integrity.

    Unfortunately, intellectual integrity is a value that is under assault in America.

    psychologytoday.com


  41. by islander on December 19, 2022 8:05 am

    Donna ~ I don’t bring up politics with them either. If they want to, I’ll be happy to discuss it with them. I understand what they (especially family) are going through now and why politics is not longer their favorite topic like it used to be. I also admit to having more empathy for my family than I do for some others.


  42. by HatetheSwamp on December 19, 2022 8:21 am

    isle,

    As the Governor of Washington recently proved. A sure mark of a white supremacist is the denial of the reality that subjectivity is truth. Fits, eh!!!!!? Bahahahahahahahahahaha. As I said, your whole family might well be bonkers. Based on who we know from it, it's not hard to believe. Bahahahahahahahahahaha, ahhhhhhhhhhh!


  43. by oldedude on December 19, 2022 10:19 am
    I only find on rare occasion, that isle actually is part of any intellectual integrity.

    And yes, if you say a lie enough times, it becomes reality. Much like your lord Himmler spoke about. But there is a vast difference between intellectual integrity and the dims saying over and over the US is in a crisis of our democracy if you vote GOP. That was a lie, a big lie, and told enough that the weak-minded people actually believe it.


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