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Crime selectors, pages, etc.
"Russia’s invasion is now an ongoing operation of mass murder"
By Donna
November 22, 2022 1:32 pm
Category: Crime

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I'm getting bad feelings about way may soon befall the Ukrainian people, maybe worse.

The piece is called "Russia's Vindictive Rage" by Tom Nichols at The Atlantic. Here's an excerpt:

Russia, as Kedmi and others now seem to realize, has gone far beyond any of the rationalizations Putin deployed last winter about saving the Ukrainians from “Nazis” or any other such nonsense. The Russians are killing innocent civilians as imperial retaliation for their defiance. Putative military objectives have vanished; Moscow’s goals have devolved into infuriated bloodletting. Each Russian retreat brings a rain of missiles against civilian targets, and the Kremlin isn’t even bothering to make military arguments for these strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure and homes. Such bombings are civilian reprisals that are no different from the Nazi reprisals against the French and other occupied peoples for the resistance of partisans and militias. I taught for many years at a U.S. military college, and I believe these are obvious war crimes.

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Comments on ""Russia’s invasion is now an ongoing operation of mass murder"":

  1. by oldedude on November 22, 2022 2:47 pm
    Donna- I've not heard of Tom, but I agree with the synopsis. This is what happens when the major power in a civil war is bested.

    It happened as Russia retreated to Stalingrad. It was a trap by the Russians, but they blew up every farm, animals were brought with them and it was very much a scorched earth policy.

    The same happened on Germany's Eastern Front as they retreated. Burn everything, murder villages, etc.

    It's what Sherman did on a 300 mile swath of the south.

    I agree with you also. The only way the Ukrainians can protect themselves is air superiority. They need to migs and frogfoot aircraft to take out the missiles before they're launched. They need to take as many as possible before they're airborne.

  2. by Donna on November 22, 2022 7:35 pm

    It's pure evil. I'm amazed at how resilient they've been.

  3. by oldedude on November 23, 2022 12:15 pm
    I think for Putin, it's either this or chemical weapons and win. Take your choice.

    And the stuff in Iraq and Afghanistan there was much worse stuff from Sadaam and the russians, and then the Taliban.
    Under Sadaam, whole villages ceased to exist. Uday and Kusay would go with their guards to some of the villages and get all the girls in line. They'd take what they wanted and leave for their palace. There they would be raped, beaten, abused until they were no longer wanted or desired (usually beaten to the point it wasn't fun for them to get the girls' blood on them). They'd put a mares urine on the girl and have the stud rape her. When almost dead (but alive enough for her to know what was going on, they'd throw her in with the lions, who would eat them. But cats generally don't kill before they eat, so the women would be eaten partially before dying.

    In Afghanistan, the Soviets put arsenic in the wells. The systems to clean the water will be going bad in a couple of years and the Taliban will have a mess on their hands when whole villages die.

    The Taliban has some international notoriety for having husbands kill their wife's for not being covered in the presence of men when they break through the doors. And of course, women are only used to bear children, and children are sexually abused by the clerics, so there's all that.

    In Sherman's march to the sea, if that army didn't need the livestock, the animals would be killed and then watched for a day so the locals couldn't get the meat from the animals. Grain was usually burned. Of course, so was any cash crop. Black skirmishers were shot on sight if they assaulted a white woman, but not black women. Black men and women were taken as slaves, children were sometimes taken, sometimes shot, sometimes just left to die. White skirmishers were allowed white women, but none out of their class. The towns, especially the small towns were burned to the ground after the houses were cleared out of silver and gold, and anything that could be sold. The larger cities were burned to the sieged at first. As the population was finally eating their dogs, and under constant shelling, living in caves, they would give up. Except for Savannah.

  4. by oldedude on November 23, 2022 3:49 pm
    What is happening to Ukraine is what happens in a guerrilla/terrorist war.
    If you're either a combatant or a supporter, you're dead if it's at all possible by the conventional force. And I agree about the resilience of Ukraine. That's why I said they needed those aircraft. Frogfoots would be a much better fit in this case, but I'd take anything with bombing or rocket capability.

  5. by oldedude on November 23, 2022 10:23 pm
    The long story is this is an option you think they would be "civilized" about. Civilized and war shall not twine. Although Curt and the left mocked me (although You didn't) this is something I actually know of. You can call me "that uncle" or whatever. We're talking about lives here. You'll know if I mean the lives of the enemy. I will admit it haunts me, but I'm willing to do that to save people. I haven't deviated from the need. mostly because I know what they need (contrary to curt's and isle's views). Welcome to real war. I would hate to be the team that clears a building after one of those attacks. There's a stench you can't imagine. And you'll never forget.

  6. by Curt_Anderson on November 23, 2022 11:11 pm
    Sorry that I mocked you. I will try to disagree without being disagreeable.

    Besides your suggestion of planes to combat missiles, here are a couple of hopeful possibilities for Ukraine.

    Reuters reports:
    "Ukraine has made a new appeal for the United States to supply it with powerful drones and anti-drone missiles, hoping Washington will reverse its previous rejection as Russia increasingly turns to kamikaze drones and attacks civilian infrastructure."

    "According to a Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate representative, Russian forces have used more than 80% of their modern missiles.

    Moscow’s troops only have 120 Iskander ballistic missiles left, the representative added."

  7. by oldedude on November 24, 2022 8:07 am
    Okay on above. all is well. I used that term (maybe incorrectly) as more of a thought that this is a very convoluted issue that most are getting their information and not really seeing this is actually a fairly typical move of a major power in guerilla warfare. So I think this is a Sender=> message=> receiver. My message was messed up, so the rest of it, without being in a conversation was lost. So I'm going to take the credit for the mixup.

    I agree those would help, although my main thought is that as horrible as these are, this is what happens in guerilla/ low intensity warfare. Russia lost the "hearts and minds" war early on. They thought they would be welcomed. And weren't. The Ukrainians are extremely resourceful, and it helps that your military came from theirs. You know their moves because you know their courses of action.

    The issue for the Russians is they see strongholds and consider them held by the guerrillas. Therefore, in order to take out the fighters, they'll take out the civilians. As with all low-intensity warfare, it's hard to tell the difference. My worry is that if the Russians run out of rockets/ missiles, they'll opt for chemical agents like they've done in the past.

    I think Vlad is really trying to get the Ukrainians to sue for peace. If he does, he comes in to negotiations from a position of weakness. If the Ukrainians want to quit, Vlad may get Crimea. That would make it worth the war.

    Also remember the other countries that will help the Russians. DPRK, Iran, China (to a lessor extent).

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