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Watching the Jan 6th hearings: June 28...Mystery witness day

By HatetheSwamp
June 28, 2022 10:29 am
Category: Government

(0.0 from 0 votes)
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Holy cow!

No wonder there no cross examination is being allowed.

Everything so far is effin HEARSAY!

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Comments on "Watching the Jan 6th hearings: June 28...Mystery witness day":

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 10:37 am
It is not hearsay. It is witness testimony. She is very credible.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 10:40 am

Leading effin questions asking for hearsay.

This is political porn...but it's bad political porn!

Sheeeeeeeeeeeesh!

And, you Blue MAGAs are falling for this?

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 10:45 am

Curt,

She's telling us what she believes people other people thought.

I'm glad that we know what this peon believed. But, honestly! What's it matter!

It's obvious why there's no balance on the Committee. TDSers would be embarrassed if there were.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 11:06 am

Trump "threw dishes." Call the FBI. "Book 'em, Danno!"

Bahahahahahahahahahaha!

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 11:53 am

pb gave up after an hour and twenty minutes. Lizzy was asking leading questions, or worse, testifying herself. Ms Hutchinson mostly witnessed to what other people said or to her impressions of what they were thinking or of stories about Trump that she heard about from others second, sometimes third, hand.

Granted, pb assessed her as being honest and sincere and all of her testimony may very well describe what actually happened.

But a prosecutor could never ask the questions Lizzy asked and Ms Hutchinson would never be able to give second and third hand testimony...

...the opposing attorney would easily be able to shred her testimony to pieces.

Bottom line. This is decent political porn. But, if it's all the Committee has, it's a no-brainer why the Justice Department hasn't moved against Trump.

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 12:23 pm
Trump has already responded to Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony.

"I hardly know who this person, Cassidy Hutchinson, is, other than I heard very negative things about her (a total phony and ‘leaker’)..."

"I hardly know [her]" is his go to dismissive comment before he launches into
his specific criticisms and insults.

Calling her a leaker is a tell. A leaker is a person who reveals publicly a fact that a politician hopes stays hidden.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 12:38 pm

Actually, he called her "a phony...leaker."

Not to defend Trump, but his argument is that the Committee is exaggerating how important Ms Hutchinson was in White House operations. We only have Lizzy's assertion that she was important in the White House.

And, be honest. Trump's claim matches her testimony. She mostly testified to what she was told by others and her impressions of others were thinking.

pb's point here is that, as credible she might be, she knows very little beyond the level of gossip and that she'd be worth nothing in a prosecution of Trump.

Heck! She didn't even see Trump throw the dishes. All she saw was ketchup on the wall.

This is tantalizing political porn, not much else.

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 12:56 pm
"Heck! She didn't even see Trump throw the dishes. All she saw was ketchup on the wall."

She had circumstantial evidence as opposed to direct evidence. Here are some illustrative examples of evidence that it snowed.

Direct Evidence: Testimony indicating that the witness observed snow falling
during the night.

Circumstantial Evidence: Testimony indicating that there was no snow on the ground before the witness went to sleep, and that when he arose in the morning, it
was not snowing, but the ground was snow-covered.

Now substitute ketchup on the wall for snow on the ground.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 1:00 pm

And, what is hearsay evidence?

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 1:14 pm
"And, what is hearsay evidence?"

Hutchinson testified that the valet told her that Trump was in a bad mood and she should steer clear of him. The valet added that Trump threw his food against the wall in his dining room

Do you imagine that somebody else threw food against the president's dining room wall?

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 1:24 pm

Except that Trump denies it...and what does it matter? We're not going to indict Trump on wasting ketchup.

My point is that, for all she testified to almost none of this is first-hand and less is about Trump himself.

She heard that he grabbed the wheel of The Beast. She saw ketchup on the wall.

I think Lizzy is conning us on how central she was.

Smoke and mirrors.

This is how y'nes can be blown away by these hearings while Trump's leading Joe in several polls, Joe's polls plummet and GOPs pull ahead in the RCP generic ballot.

Seemingly, for most people, there's no there there.

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 2:03 pm
Did Trump deny it under oath? Didn't think so.

As well orchestrated as these hearings are, you can be sure that everything that Hutchinson said was corroborated with other evidence and testimony.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 2:08 pm

I don't believe Trump. But, the point is that Ms Hutchinson was there. Of all the things she testified to, she saw or heard almost none of it.

And, again. All she knows about the dishes is the ketchup part.

by islander on June 28, 2022 2:59 pm

"Of all the things she testified to, she saw or heard almost none of it."

Actually what she testified (under oath) to was what she actually saw and heard. She saw the splattered food and heard what the Valet said.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 3:18 pm

Right, isle. Exactly.

There's no doubt that this was exquisite progressive political porn but you can imagine how a prosecutor would have trouble doing anything with this, ain't.

She provided an almost pure hearsay account following Lizzy's leading questions.

If the object of the hearings is to prove that Trump is despicable...an SOB...this was useful. But, most of us believed that even before Trump trounced Hillary in the Electoral College.

Apparently, on Twitter, wokesters are going bonkers over this but, honestly, how much new came out of it?

by Ponderer on June 28, 2022 3:56 pm

I love it. First, Hate was whining about how boring the hearings were, and now he takes issue with how entertaining they are.

There just ain't no pleasing a bullshit-swallower like Hate.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 4:15 pm

I did think that the first hearing was pathetically boring. It was.

But, this? Last minute? Mystery guest?, just like, WHAT'S MY LINE? This was, since it's you, effin, dramatic!

Still, as Clara Peller asked, "Where's the beef?"

What are those felonies?

by Donna on June 28, 2022 4:41 pm
So islander, Curt, what do you think the final outcome will be? I'm not talking about the hearings - I mean after everything that ensues is over? Do you think Trump will do prison time? I doubted it before today, but now I'm no longer ruling that out.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 4:46 pm

Based on what from today?

by Donna on June 28, 2022 4:56 pm
Everything.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 5:06 pm

🚨 A source close to the Secret Service tells me both Bobby Engel, the lead agent, and the presidential limousine/SUV driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted and that Mr. Trump never lunged for the steering wheel. -Peter Alexander (NBC)

There's a reason hearsay is not acceptable.

by islander on June 28, 2022 5:07 pm
Donna- I've said it before. Last year I didn't believe Trump would ever be held accountable for his actions let alone go to prison.

Now, I'm thinking all my hopes for accountability might not have been in vain, and with regard to him going to prison?...All bets are off !!!

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 5:08 pm
Donna,
I think Trump will be convicted of something. Maybe obstruction of justice, election count interference, witness tampering, inciting a riot, conspiracy, sedition, others??

But I don't believe he will serve any prison time. He is a past expert at the courtroom delay game. He just needs to hold out until a Republican president pardons him.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 5:11 pm

Dinesh D’Souza:

NBC and CBS are reporting that both Trump’s driver and Secret Service agent are willing to testify under oath that Trump never attempted to grab the steering wheel. And just like that, today’s “bombshell” testimony at the #January6thCommiteeHearings is completely discredited.

There's a lot in Ms Hutchinson's testimony that smells pretty ripe...

...and the Committee, clearly, was sloppy or lazy or just too consumed by Trump hate to check this out.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 5:11 pm
Yeah, that's where I'm at islander.

Cassidy heard that from soneone who was in that car. They may not need that to hang Trump, though.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 5:20 pm

Greg Gutfeld:

my neighbor Bertha stunned me when she told me she heard that Martha from up the street killed a swan with her bare hands. She heard it from Clara. Clara is out of town or i would verify, but i was stunned by this information - and frankly, its jaw dropping. if its true, but hey.

Exactly!!!!!

by Donna on June 28, 2022 5:25 pm
Curt - It isn't at all a slam dunk that a Republican will be president in 2025.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 5:31 pm

At this point, all of Ms Hutchinson's testimony has to be doubted.

More importantly, the Committee has to be doubted, even more than before.

THERE'S GOOD REASON FOR THERE TO BE BIPARTISAN PARTICIPATION IN THIS SORT OF COMMITTEE. YOU CAN BE D@MN SURE THAT, IF THE GOPS' APPOINTED MEMBERS WERE AROUND, THE COMMITTEE WOULD NOT HAVE EMBARRASSED ITSELF.

The Committee...and all of you...deserve this shaming!

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 5:34 pm
Donna,
Trump could drag things out until 2029 or 2033.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 5:35 pm

Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch says, "The Pelosi show trials collapsed today."

by Donna on June 28, 2022 5:35 pm
I really do appreciate your humorous interjection, Hate.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 5:36 pm
He'll probably be dead by then, Curt.

by Ponderer on June 28, 2022 5:45 pm

"At this point, all of Ms Hutchinson's testimony has to be doubted." -HatetheTruth

We're more than aware that this is how Hate absolutely must think that to be the case.

Proving once again just how far this all goes over his head, Hate is too pig-ignorant to even understand the laughable absurdity of such a panic-driven assertion.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 5:47 pm
Where did you hear that, Curt?

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 5:48 pm
Donna, that's part of my calculation.

HtS, Tom Fitton...LOL!
en.wikipedia.org

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 5:48 pm

Jonathan Turley:

...It is curious that the Committee would air the account without confirming from the Secret Service, particularly since Bobby Engel appears willing to testify. This is the danger of using witnesses to repeat third party accounts.

Exactamundo!

The Committee is in deep doodoo.

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 5:51 pm

Curt,

I thought you'd like Judicial Watch.

How 'bout CBS?, NBC?, George Washington University professor Jonathan Turley?

by Donna on June 28, 2022 5:53 pm
Fitton is a clown.

I think your calculation's off, Curt.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 6:00 pm
Cassidy was told that by Ornato. If need be, he can be questioned under oath by the select committee. But it's not that important of an issue.

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 6:06 pm
Donna,
Where'd I hear what? That Trump would drag things out? It's his modus operandi and my guess and opinion.

HtS,
As I remarked earlier the limo story is sensational but probably not something that would be prosecuted. As you've said many times about Trump, "he believed" he won the election. Hutchinson clearly said that Engle related the story to her, not that she witnessed it herself. She believed them. If the story is false, my money is on Hutchinson and that she truthfully related the story as told to her by the two agents who were the principles.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 6:14 pm
I think you're giving Trump too much credit, Curt. He's been beaten in court several times and been forced to pay stiff settlements. And Trump has made lots of enemies in high places since those days.

I read in WaPost that Cassidy found that out from Ornato.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 6:20 pm
CNBC also says Cassidy got the account of what happened in the limo from Ornato.
cnbc.com

by HatetheSwamp on June 28, 2022 6:57 pm

From that gay Guy Curt's never heard of:

As a PR matter, getting perhaps the splashiest allegation promptly swatted down by the officers involved is a pretty significant blunder. If the committee is interested in truth, they’ll allow public, refuting testimony — especially if they want people to believe other things.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 7:23 pm
They'll be free to do that in court.

by oldedude on June 28, 2022 7:30 pm
First, everything she "testified" about was hearsay evidence. She didn't witness anything ergo, it would be inadmissible in anything but a kangaroo court.

Secondly: "After the testimony, a Secret Service official familiar with the matter told CNN that Ornato denies telling Hutchinson that the former President grabbed the wheel or an agent on his detail.
The Secret Service, through the Department of Homeland Security office of legislative affairs, notified the committee Tuesday afternoon that it will make the agents involved available to testify under oath, the official said. The agents are also prepared to say under oath that the incident itself did not occur."1

So she perjured herself and is a felony even in this court. She ought to do 5-10 for that. The rule of thumb is that if you lie about one thing, your entire testimony gets thrown out.

1.
dailymail.co.uk

by oldedude on June 28, 2022 7:33 pm
"It is not hearsay. It is witness testimony. She is very credible."

Okay.... How about now?

Sorry, trying to learn to add or change a previous post.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 7:35 pm
How do you know that that secret service agent is telling the truth? Media outlets don't question informants under oath. I don't see what Cassidy would have to gain by perjuring herself do you?

by Donna on June 28, 2022 7:50 pm
od: According to your sources, Engel and Ornato denied telling Hutchinson that Trump grabbed the wheel.

But that's not what Hutchinson said she was told. She said she was told that Trump tried to grab the wheel.
cnn.com

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 8:40 pm
Donna,
It's unlikely that Hutchinson perjured herself. She testified not the event happened but that she was told it happened.

She was very clear that it was story that she was TOLD. The Secret Service to debunk her testimony would have to testify that Omato and/or Engels did NOT tell her that story. Not that the event didn't happen.

The real story there is that Trump got into the limo and demanded to go to the Capitol...to do what? Lead the rioters?

by Donna on June 28, 2022 8:50 pm
The article I posted says that a Secret Service agent said Engel and Ornato denied that they told Hutchinson that Trump grabbed the steering wheel.

As I said, Hutchinson didn't claim that either of them told her that. Her claim is that Ornato told her that Trump tried to grab the steering wheel.

by oldedude on June 28, 2022 8:51 pm
1. No one in their right mind would bring a hearsay witness to the stand. That's the dims fault, not hers.

2. The person she said told her is willing to go to open court and testify that he did not tell her that story.

Ergo, she perjured herself. Donna's in the right here.

When you have to bring in hearsay witnesses, the dims case started falling apart.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 8:57 pm
Do you see the difference? The Secret Setvice agent is NOT denying that Engel or Ornato told Hutchinson that Trump TRIED to grab the steering wheel.

by Donna on June 28, 2022 9:00 pm
That's not what I'm saying, od. Neither you nor Curt are reading carefully what I said. It has to do with grabbing the steering wheel vs TRYING to grab the steering wheel.

by Ponderer on June 28, 2022 9:32 pm

This isn't a criminal court, od. Hearsay evidence is worth a lot when they are simply investigating to discover what happened. It leads to, well, leads. Plus it's generally on top of other corroborating testimonies and evidence we may know nothing about yet.

by Curt_Anderson on June 28, 2022 10:27 pm
Donna,
It is a strawman defense of Trump to say that Trump didn't grab the wheel. Hutchinson said he tried to grab it. I realized that distinction.

It's also something of defense of the Secret Service and the agents to claim that they had Trump in control the entire time. Conversely, it's embarrassing to admit that Trump assaulted them.

I heard on CNN or MSNBC that the one of the agents, Engels I believe, somehow owes Trump for his job currently or the one he had in the White House.

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 3:04 am

Monica Crowley:

Their lies about Trump used to be more sophisticated: Russian asset! Ukrainian corruption!

Now they're down to: he may have wrestled a Secret Service agent, tried to commandeer his official vehicle, and splattered ketchup on a wall!

Absolute clowns.

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 3:46 am

Greg Gutfeld:

if U believed everything you heard folks say about something they didnt actually see, and still act "stunned," and say its "jaw dropping," the only place for you is media. seriously -when I say "mike said he heard..." I even tune out on myself.

Just sayin gang! pb said, on SS, while this effin Lie was being told, that almost everything Ms Hutchinson said was on the level of gossip.

I was giving her...and the COMMITTEE...much more credit than they deserve.

Who knows how many lies they collaborated in telling!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 4:16 am

Tim Young, Washington Times:

"Wait... so you're telling me that the daughter of war criminal Dick Cheney would run a sham committee to attempt to eliminate her political opponents? NO WAY!"

Bahahahahahahahahahaha!

My you wokesters need to stop worshiping, and believing, Lizzy!

Keeheeheeheeheeheeheehee!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 4:30 am

Julio Rosas (Townhall.com):

A Secret Service source told me earlier: “FYI, I’m calling bullshit on the Secret Service story. You think none of us would have never heard of this as an internal rumor? No fucking way.”

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 4:37 am

Greg Price:

If this is true, it means the January 6 committee allowed a completely ridiculous accusation to air on national television before even interviewing the Secret Service agents WHO WERE ACTUALLY IN THE CAR about whether or not it was accurate.

Bingo!

Obviously, Lizzy's setting the table but doesn't know what the main dish is.

Defies description!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 4:50 am

Donna:

"How do you know that that secret service agent is telling the truth? Media outlets don't question informants under oath. I don't see what Cassidy would have to gain by perjuring herself do you?

I think it's agent-S.

The point is, at this point, only people with TDS will be inclined to believe anything the Committee spews from now on.

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 4:58 am

Donna:

It's unlikely that Hutchinson perjured herself. She testified not the event happened but that she was told it happened.

Clearly, it's the Committee that has been busted.

Did they not vet this testimony. Or, did they hope to squeak through this lie!!!!!?

How effin embarrassing! They rushed this testimony on to national TV. They hyped this MYSTERY witness!

Only to be busted for a ridiculous lie that could easily have been caught!

Anyone who still trusts these sham hearings from this moment on is a TDS infected fool!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 5:00 am

by oldedude on June 28, 2022 8:51 pm
1. No one in their right mind would bring a hearsay witness to the stand. That's the dims fault, not hers.

2. The person she said told her is willing to go to open court and testify that he did not tell her that story.

Ergo, she perjured herself. Donna's in the right here.

When you have to bring in hearsay witnesses, the dims case started falling apart.

Amen. Preach it, bro!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 5:05 am

"Hearsay evidence is worth a lot..." -po

You are da effin bomb po!

Next year, when the House is investigating Joe for lending Hunter money to buy crack to share with strippers, we'll await your praise of hearsay testimony.

po is, absolutely, da effin BOMB!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 5:07 am

Curt:

It is a strawman defense of Trump to say that Trump didn't grab the wheel. Hutchinson said he tried to grab it. I realized that distinction.

It's also something of defense of the Secret Service and the agents to claim that they had Trump in control the entire time. Conversely, it's embarrassing to admit that Trump assaulted them.

I heard on CNN or MSNBC that the one of the agents, Engels I believe, somehow owes Trump for his job currently or the one he had in the White House.

You are a credulous, sycophantic, Good German fool!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 5:14 am

Greg Kelly (Newsmax)

This FILTHY MOUTHED WOMAN just got BUSTED lying. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for any POTUS to reach for the Wheel from the back seat. The LIMO ain't configured that way. PERJURY!!!!!!!!

I prefer to think that the Committee attempted to foist a lie on a hapless nation.

Cept. We ain't hapless. Cept for the woke TDS crowd like po and Curt and Donna!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 5:17 am

"Thinking is difficult. That's why most People Judge." -Carl Jung (said of people suffering from TDS)

by oldedude on June 29, 2022 5:35 am
?That's not what I'm saying, od. Neither you nor Curt are reading carefully what I said. It has to do with grabbing the steering wheel vs TRYING to grab the steering wheel."

Either way, it can't be done in a Presidential Limo. Although we know now, why the dims put her up there. It's to make the sheep go nuts and say that someone would put their career on the line over this ~~slut~~ whore (my guess is the dims paid her to lie).

Point is, Secret Service officer would lose their job and never be hired again by any job that needs a background check. So if they are going to lie, they lose their career, retirement, etc. All for her? She's not worth it.

But nothing is going to change the mindless sheep's mind in this. Someone bleated out the order, and your eyes glazed over and you obey. TDS

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 5:44 am

OD,

The lie was ridiculous. Our SSers defense of it is even, uh, ridiculous-er.

This is so much fun.

They're so earnest...

...and so effin...

...WRONG!!!!!

by Donna on June 29, 2022 8:39 am
If what I just read in the NYT is right, my theory is wrong. According to the piece I read, two unnamed SS agents said that Engel and the limo driver are prepared to testify under oath that Trump didn't try to grab the steering wheel.

by Ponderer on June 29, 2022 8:44 am

All she testified to was what she was told.

But I get it. You guys are watching your cult leader go up in flames, so you gotta try any straw you can grasp at.

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 9:11 am

That's funny, po.

I was just going to write a post saying that this helps Trump.

The so-called Ultra-MAGAs will eat this up. OrangeMan's odds to win the GOP nomination just went waaaaaaaaaay up!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 9:31 am

On,and, po, FYI: Right wing media is lit up more than it has been at any time since November 016, with Trump's unexpected victory.

It's absolutely giddy!

Trump's going to be able to ride this wave for a looooooooong time!

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 9:41 am

Jimmy Failla:

The reason Jan 6th is such a political dead end for Dems is Republicans ALL agreed it was bad that day. But Biden has been bad EVERY DAY SINCE. Inflation 40 yr high, gas unaffordable, fentanyl killing kids in record #’s. All the made up assault stories in the world can’t save you.

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 12:33 pm

Good one, Dinesh:

Hearsay or not, I can believe Trump threw a burger against the wall. When a guy has an election stolen from him, he’s likely to be a little upset. I’m just waiting for the rest of the story. Did Bill Barr pick it up off the ground and eat it?

by Ponderer on June 29, 2022 2:01 pm

"The so-called Ultra-MAGAs will eat this up." -Hate

So the fukk what?

Wait... Are we supposed to be shocked and terrified that Trumpist Republicans would need anything more than the slightest hint of a mistake or question about any iota of anything to eat up like pig-ignorant hogs to slop? (see what I did there...?) Or that they wouldn't have found some obscure form unsigned or deadline missed or "impropriety" to freak the living fukk out about?

There's rock solid evidence that your Grapefruit God was leading a homicidal and treasonously illegal coup, prosecuted on several established fronts, from hundreds of Republican witnesses and thousands of subpoenaed documents...

...But all that matters to you Trump suckers is what happened in that limo. As if that somehow magically deflates everything the investigations have discovered.

by HatetheSwamp on June 29, 2022 2:48 pm

There's rock solid evidence that your Grapefruit God was leading a homicidal and treasonously illegal coup, prosecuted on several established fronts, from hundreds of Republican witnesses and thousands of subpoenaed documents...

I haven't seen that evidence yet.

The point of that fiasco yesterday is that nuthin that Ms Hutchinson said can be believed.

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