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The hearings: Trump screwed himself and others

By Curt_Anderson
June 13, 2022 9:50 am
Category: Politics

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A few takeaways:

Contrary to advice from his campaign manager, Trump discouraged his supporters from voting by mail.

The viewer is left to decide if Trump is a liar or detached from reality. His team told him repeatedly he lost fair and square.

They are also making the case that it's not just the Big Lie but the Big Rip-off. Trump bamboozled his supporters in fundraising off the Big Lie.


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Comments on "The hearings: Trump screwed himself and others":

  1. by Ponderer on June 13, 2022 10:04 am

    A "Big Con" I think is more accurate.

    It's the only thing Trump has ever been a master of: Conning people out of their money.


  2. by Curt_Anderson on June 13, 2022 10:07 am
    There seems to be a secondary case being made against Trump, that for grifting. He is raising money under false pretenses and pocketing the donations.

    Another takeaway. Rudy was drunk and told Trump to declare victory on election night.


  3. by HatetheSwamp on June 13, 2022 10:45 am

    His team told him repeatedly he lost fair and square.

    That is an effin lie...or, at the very least, outright wanna-believe-ism."


  4. by Ponderer on June 13, 2022 10:55 am

    That is a totally truthful summing up of what he was told by his people and all the officials he himself even appointed, Hate. Just because those EXACT words were not used by anyone, does not mean that it was not effectively a perfectly accurate and explicitly truthful summing up of what he was told.

    Dear god, your ego must be made of wet tissue paper to have to argue so lamely and ridiculously.

    You really need to stop accusing others of lying, Hate. Especially in the face of the fact that lies and flaming bullshit are all you ever present to this forum. I know your own hypocrisy means nothing to you, but it is extremely tiresome after so many years.


    And hey, thanks for the vote of confidence, Isle. There is no need for me to lie when the blatant truth fully supports everything I say.


  5. by islander on June 13, 2022 3:18 pm

    Ponderer-Hate perfectly represents the mindset of so many of the current folks who call themselves "Republicans'. I wish they could all read his posts. I think it might give them cause to pause, and think about how they have been misled by people like him.


  6. by HatetheSwamp on June 13, 2022 3:32 pm

    That is a totally truthful summing up of what he was told by his people and all the officials he himself even appointed, Hate.

    No.

    And, that's where willingly fell for the Committee's PREVARICATION.

    And, this how I could have destroyed the testimony of Barr, et.al..

    Are you honestly suggesting that all the voices informing and advising Trump told him that there's nuthin to the claims that there was election fraud.

    C'mon man. Gimme a break. You effin know better than that.

    SOME on team told Trump he lost...

    You know that. Apparently, it's want to believe.


  7. by Curt_Anderson on June 13, 2022 4:02 pm
    There was testimony that a drunken Rudy Giuliani advised Trump to declare victory. Bill Stepien said that there were two sorts of Trump advisors: Team Normal and the sycophant/crazy/intoxicated team.


  8. by Curt_Anderson on June 13, 2022 4:07 pm
    HtS,
    The difference being that Team Normal was able to document with data and evidence that Trump lost. Team Crazy had wild fantasies that didn't withstand the slightest scrutiny. Bill Barr put it more succinctly.


  9. by HatetheSwamp on June 14, 2022 4:46 am

    Yeah, Curt. No doubt.

    But Benji Thompson and Liz Cheney claim that, because Barr and Ivanka thought the claims of election fraud were bull$hit, that Trump KNEW it.

    That is the bull$hit!

    Trump was hearing from many people who believed...STILL believe...that there was substantial election fraud in the 020 election.

    Benji and Lizzy? They're either lying or deranged!


  10. by Ponderer on June 14, 2022 6:18 am

    "Are you honestly suggesting that all the voices informing and advising Trump told him that there's nuthin to the claims that there was election fraud." -Hate

    See? this is how you lie and misrepresent and straw man and obfuscate.

    I was suggesting only what I said. Not what you want to twist what I said into. He lost fair and square is a totally truthful summing up of what he was told by his people and all the officials he himself even appointed, Hate. Which of the officials that he appointed told him there was anything to the claims of election fraud? Steve Bannon doesn't count as an official. The lunatic media outlets he "hears things" from are not officials. Glenn Beck is not an official. Dipso Giuliani, Trump's drunken lawyer doesn't count as an official (He no longer counts as a lawyer either).

    Saying "his people" doesn't suggest all of the yes men and boot lickers that hung around him like cats outside a butcher shop. It was only the vast, near entirety of them who were telling him he lost. But if you're talking about actual "officials", it was all of them. Deal with it. You can't name any officials who showed or told him anything that even seriously suggested widespread, major fraud.


    "But Benji Thompson and Liz Cheney claim that, because Barr and Ivanka thought the claims of election fraud were bull$hit, that Trump KNEW it." -Hate

    AGAIN with the lies and straw man misrepresentations!!! You are on a roll I tell ya what.

    All of the officials who were in a position to know told him there was essentially nothing at all to any of the claims of voter fraud that would have had any bearing on the outcome of the election. Even if they were true. They had the numbers and data to back them up. Team Dipso Giuliani never had a shred of any evidence that ever proved a god damned thing.

    Choosing to not believe everything that the experts are telling you is by no means the same thing as not knowing the things they told you. They told you, and you know what they said. Just because you don't want to believe them doesn't mean you didn't know what they told you. The "Costanza Defense" doesn't really work, bill.

    These hearings are proving well beyond any reasonable doubt that he in fact did know what he was being told. Everyone was telling him something, but he didn't know it? Come on.

    As Barr testified, Trump just didn't give a flying rat's ass what the actual facts were. Facts are quite irrelevant to him if they don't suit his needs (and they never do), as he has proved over and over again. He was in a panic at the time of his election loss frantic and was frantic to use any ploy he could grasp at to stay in power. And as a last resort he used the lunatic ramblings of a drunken, disgraced lawyer who pulled baseless bullshit out of his ass. Just because he thought he was smarter than everyone else doesn't mean that he didn't know what he was being told.


    All the experts tell him he lost the election, but he didn't know it?

    Dipso Giuliani tells him the whole election was rigged, and that he knows?


    Nuh uh. Ain't gonna fly as a defense in court. He's dead meat.



  11. by HatetheSwamp on June 14, 2022 6:42 am

    po, you know, as Donna'd say, d@mn well, that the point is the claim that Trump KNEW that there was no substantial fraud in the election.

    My point, which is true, is that he didn't know.

    Many on his team continued to suggest means by which the fraud took place. Barr made that clear himself.

    If some prosecutor should attempt to try Trump for fraudulently raising funds on a claim that he lied claiming election fraud when he knew there was none, the prosecutor would be laughed out of court. Trump is more certain today than he was on January 6, that the election was stolen.


  12. by Ponderer on June 14, 2022 6:52 am

    "po, you know, as Donna'd say, d@mn well, that the point is the claim that Trump KNEW that there was no substantial fraud in the election." -Hate

    He didn't know what all the experts and officials were telling him?

    You can't claim not to know something just because you were sticking your fingers in your ears and going LA LA LA LA LA LA...!!! as all of the experts were explaining it to you.

    He heard them. He knew what they were saying. He knew what it meant. And he simply refused to take the reality of what they were saying into any consideration.



    Wait a minute... Are you actually hoping for some kind of insanity defense...?


  13. by HatetheSwamp on June 14, 2022 7:15 am

    He heard them. He knew what they were saying. He knew what it meant. And he simply refused to take the reality of what they were saying into any consideration.

    That's a slight simplification but, yeah.

    You probably know that intent is essential for a prosecutor to prove a crime.

    I've said many times that YOU are deranged.

    I've NEVER denied that Trumpís deranged.

    I despise Trump. I think he's despicable.


  14. by Ponderer on June 14, 2022 7:21 am

    "You probably know that intent is essential for a prosecutor to prove a crime." -Hate

    You think it wasn't his intent to use his Big Lie as justification in his attempt to overturn what was in fact a legal and valid presidential election...? You think that hasn't been proven? Even well before the hearings started?


  15. by Ponderer on June 14, 2022 7:23 am

    So you are hoping for an insanity defense....


  16. by HatetheSwamp on June 14, 2022 7:25 am

    po,

    I think you phased it in classic po, "Do you still beat your wife" fashion, but, yeah, allowing for your mischaracterization of what I've said?, exactly!


  17. by Ponderer on June 14, 2022 7:30 am

    So... do you think he was too stupid, ignorant, or mentally deranged to comprehend what was being told to him by all the experts, so therefore he didn't know any of what they were telling him...?

    Is that what your abject defense of him is based on?


  18. by HatetheSwamp on June 14, 2022 7:58 am

    You Blue MAGA Swampcultists and your COMPREHENSION and UNDERSTANDING!!!!!

    Trump was living smack dab in the center of his subjectivity...

    ...as do you, as well as anyone I've known.


  19. by Ponderer on June 14, 2022 9:29 am

    And you think that a person's subjectivity is a legal defense...?

    For example...

    If you tell a bunch of legal experts around you that you intend to rob a bank and they vociferously explain to you about how robbing a bank is a crime, and then you choose to rob a bank the next day anyway because dammit, you just adamantly and in the deepest part of your being don't believe that robbing a bank is illegal, that doesn't mean that you are not prosecutable for committing the crime of bank robbing. That doesn't mean that you did not know it was a crime. It just means that you were made conscious of it being a crime, but disagreed with all the experts and did not choose to believe it was a crime. And the judge will laugh at you as he sentences you to twenty five years.


  20. by Ponderer on June 14, 2022 9:36 am


    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


    And I would just like to bring up the fact, for archival documentation purposes, how here you are, abjectly defending "despicable" Trump with every fiber of your being, precisely as you declare you do not do.


    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


  21. by HatetheSwamp on June 14, 2022 9:38 am

    Living smack dab in the middle of one's subjectivity ain't a defense. It would be pleading guilty.

    But, there will be no charges, let alone a conviction.


  22. by Ponderer on June 14, 2022 10:04 am

    "Your Honor, even though my client was told by several qualified legal experts the day before the offense that robbing a bank is illegal, he still didn't know that it was illegal. In fact a homeless person outside an open window heard the conversation and screamed at him that robbing a bank was totally legal. So therefore, my client believed, based on absolutely nothing else but ludicrous, thoroughly debunked, and materially baseless claims "that he heard" from some conspiracy theory websites and the drunken ravings of a deranged homeless person, that it was well within his rights... nay, that it was his very duty, to rob a bank if he felt it necessary to do so. So I ask you, Your Honor, how could he have actually committed a crime if he didn't quote know unquote what he did was a crime? Therefore I beseech you, Your Honor, in the name of Justice and all things right, that you hereby drop all charges against my client and release him immediately to his own recognizance. He's actually scheduled to meet with some business associates to rob a bank at one thirty today, and since it might be tough to get an Uber in this area at this time of day and..."

    "Excuse me, Bailiff...? Please take Counsel into custody on the charge of Contempt of Court and have him remain there until he decides to stop treating these proceedings like a big freaking joke..."


  23. by islander on June 14, 2022 12:53 pm

    You Blue MAGA Swampcultists and your COMPREHENSION and UNDERSTANDING!!!!!

    Trump was living smack dab in the center of his subjectivity..."


    What does Trump's living smack dab in the middle of his subjectivity have to do with anything? Is it just a bit of trivia or do you think it contributed to his insanity?


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