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Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.

Posted by Anonymous User 
What's all this now? I thought Federal-Spending-Bad, Tax-Cuts-Good were foregone conclusions beyond obvious to any rational, unbiased, non-ignoramus.

In his July 24, 2008 testimony (pdf) before the House Committee on Small Business, Mark Zandi, chief economist and co-founder of Moody's, presented this chart:

Fiscal Economic Bank for the Buck
One year $ change in real GDP for a given $ reduction in federal tax revenue or increase in spending

Tax Cuts
Non-refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.02
Refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.26

Temporary Tax Cuts
Payroll Tax Holiday 1.29
Across the Board Tax Cut 1.03
Accelerated Depreciation 0.27

Permanent Tax Cuts
Extend Alternative Minimum Tax Patch 0.48
Make Bush Income Tax Cuts Permanent 0.29
Make Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Cuts Permanent 0.37
Cut in Corporate Tax Rate 0.30

Spending Increases
Extending UI Benefits 1.64
Temporary Increase in Food Stamps 1.73
General Aid to State Governments 1.36
Increased Infrastructure Spending 1.59

"Mark Zandi is chief economist and cofounder of Moody’s, where he directs the company’s research and consulting activities. Moody’s, a division of Moody’s Analytics, provides economic research and consulting services to businesses, governments and other institutions."
Here is the source report where the figures come from:
Assessing the Macro Economic Impact of Fiscal Stimulus 2008 by Mark Zandi
Unemployment compensation, food stamps and other government assistance programs are designed in part ot cushion an economic downturn by injecting more money than usually disbursed by these programs into the economy.

What kind of genius loses a billion dollars in a year?
I heard aboutv this report yesrterday but couldn't find it, even with a Google search. I'm grateful that you did find it and posted it here.

This absolutely destroys the Republican mantra about 'tax cuts' being the most effective way to stimulate a sick economy. This is not big news for Democrats, but it does give them ammunition when they come up against a barrage of Republican bullshit about how 'tax cuts' are the answer to . . . well - anything.

This shows that tax cuts diminish overall revenues and do very little to address rising unemployment numbers and that they are statistically the WORST idea. (Reaganomics 'Laffer Curve' advocates to the contrary notwithstanding) to stimulate the economy.

Incidentally, you might want to edit your opening thread and change the word 'bank' to 'bang' as I'm sure you intended it to be.
Why because Trickley down does not work. It ignores the greediness of people. Rich people love money and they do not let it trickle down to the little people. While taxes can encourage or discourage behavior they will not change the underlying greed factor not accounted for in trickled down theories of the republicans.
In fact, rich people mix paper money in with lettuce for a refeshing change-of-pace salad course.

What kind of genius loses a billion dollars in a year?
The 1950s (or at least the Eisenhower years) are generally thought of as a time of peace and prosperity.

Was it because of the really low taxes? No. In fact, during the 1950s the top tax bracket was 91%. Compare that to the 35% in the years leading up to our current economic crisis. []

No, it had something to do with the billions of dollars we spent building the Interstate Highway System.
Which had to be paid for by high taxes duh.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

President Eisenhower
Hey Obamanuts,
If $1 in food stamps generates $1.73 in stimulus, lets put everyone on food stamps. What a great return on this investment!
Morons without common sense is all that can be said.
Of course most of you grasshoppers suck on the goverment teet and could care less about the ants that fill up the teet.
Soon all the ants will be transformed into grasshoppers and we can all starve.

If ants are filling up your teat, I suggest you see a doctor.
"If $1 in food stamps generates $1.73 in stimulus, lets put everyone on food stamps."

That there argument's full of straw, man. The title is tongue-in-cheek. No one's arguing that.

The recovery plan puts $102 billion (12%) toward unemployment benefits and food stamps. I have not heard Obama or the Democrats propose any more than that. If you know better, please relay the news. Comparatively, $265 billion (33%) of the plan goes toward tax credits and $195 billion (24%) goes toward infrastructure.

Given that our infrastructure is poor and current funds are insufficient and infrastructure has a greater return on investment than tax cuts, I am in favor of the following:

1. Leave Unemployment & Food Stamps as is at $102B
2. Double infrastructure spending from $195 to $400B (+$205 billion)
3. Cut the tax credits down from $265 to $190B (-$75 billion)
4. Cut out $50 billion of the spending that is least stimulative, e.g. student grants, "pork" projects (-$50 billion)

The result is a $900 billion bill with double the infrastructure spending and less "pork."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2009 06:05PM by bord.
Isn't Moody's also the same institution that said all of those CDOs, CMOs, CMBSs, etc., were AAA? So, why would we think that their analysis is/isn't flawed??? They couldn't get it right on cash flow instruments and whiff often on general corporate credits. I find it conspicuous that most of the +1 results were from liberal programs. I find it odd that the reduction in corporate tax rates (permanent) is only 0.30??? All the gains, even IF a company didn't buy an incremental dollar, would accrue to stockholders and likely flow through the IRS as capital gains...Maybe he'll get a Cabinet post for his "research?"
Here's why food stamps stimulate the economy, btw -

In a consumer economy like ours unfortunately is, money spent on food is money wasted, especially if the people buying the food can't buy anything else with their money. If they have food stamps, that money that they've spent on food can be spent on extras, like umm... a giant LCD screen television. Honestly, I see lots of people on food stamps with giant televisions. And the reason they can afford these giant TVs is because they get government help for food and housing.
Bord writes,

I thought Federal-Spending-Bad, Tax-Cuts-Good were foregone conclusions beyond obvious to any rational, unbiased, non-ignoramus.

Those policies, in effect for the last decade, are exactly why so many people need food stamps and unemployment now.
The problem is that people have a bias against food stamps, because many (most?) Americans think that people on food stamps are lazy, good for nothings that are unnecessarily on the public dole. Thus, they chafe at the notion that food stamps are a good stimulus, even though economists' analysis (which look at the numbers and not the moral values of particular spending decisions) indicates that they are the best stimulus. The reason food stamps are good stimulus is clear: the money MUST be spent in a specific way...on food...which has a value chain that employs many people, and therefore that $ spent on food translates to more dollars all the way down the value chain, which are in turn spent on goods and services. Use of food stamps also frees up the recipients other income for other, more discretionary, uses. Those goods and services also have a value chain. This is a very basic economic conept called "a multiplier", which you learn in Macroeconomics 101, a coourse which, unfortunately, most of the idiots whoa re ranting about this stimulus package have not taken. So...for the individual who suggested (albeit sarcastically) that EVERYONE should get food stamps...that's actually a great idea. Rather than giving people tax cuts, which they can squirrel away in a bank or use to pay down debt, why not give everyone a debit card with a certain amount of value that they can only use on specified items. Or even just food. That would insure that ALL the money would be spent and therefore demand would be stimulated by each and every dollar in the package. That would have been my approach to all of this..a debit card for everyone (employed or unemployed, rich or poor) to provide immediate stimulus, plus infrastructure spending to fix our aging infrastructure to keep the stimulus momentum going for the next few years.

Oh and PS, to the same individual who accused people who are on unemployment of "sucking the government's teat", unemployment insurance is funded by employers, not by the government (with the exception of extra funding being put into teh system by the feds as stimulus or to shore up the states' unemployments funds...many of which are broke from the unusually high demand.) ANd PPS...anyone who thinks it's a happy little joy ride to be on unemployment is quite welcome to have my unemployment check in return for their job. UNemployment doesn't pay even 20% of my non-discretionary monthly bills, which got considerably higher when I had to start paying for my own health insurance. I have a 20 year work history and went to school at night for ten of those years (have a BS, MS,and MBA) so I could have a stable, good paying job. I now spend 10 hours/day trying to find a new job in a market where ever major employer is either on a hiring freeze or laying people off and I've seriously considered lying on my resuem to make me look less qualified so I could get hired for a job that pays $30K/year less than what I had before. If you'd like to place a bet that I'm more lazy than you, I'd welcome that bet...any day...any time.
Your debit card idea sounds terrific.

I've seriously considered lying on my resuem to make me look less qualified - Lean

That might help. Btw, I'm in the same boat. I'm an ex-computer programmer (old school) and haven't had a decent paying job since '02. It's tough out there.
I think Starboard's suggestion of debit cards that specify what can and what can't be purchased with them is brilliant.

The only thing I would add is an 'expiration date' to assure that the money would be sppent immediately.

Why not? Think about it. The very industries that need help could be targeted. The recipients of the cards couldn't 'rat-hole' them or use them to pay off old bills (unless those bills happened to coincide with the commodities specified). It would be an absolute and immediate shot-in-the-arm boost to the economy.

Can anybody see any holes in this?
Max out yer cards and then forget about 'em.

Fuk the banks.

If they get the billions and you don't see a dime then why should you care?

If we all screw the banks and then don't pay our taxes....

Well the whole dame system come crashing down.

Dont it?

We can fuk the tar baby before it fuks us.
Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 03:54PM
There may be some degree of black marketing on such cards. People selling them for cash at a much reduced amount than they are worth. And maybe some hacking. But apart from that, it does sound like a really good idea.

Cas, do you really think it's a good idea to burn down a barn while you are trapped inside it?

This is what you DEMOIDIOTS wanted, isn't it?

A corrupt cabal of democRATS running the show. Not saying republicans are great and all, but dam#, they aren't even 1/100 as bad as these idiot democRATS are today.

Pelosi, your grand leader, idiots queen of idiots, 100% democrat idealogy at work right here folks....


I guess the democRAT strategy is to lay off as many people as possible according to idiots like this.


Doesn't matter what the label is, democrat or republican, the current morons ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING decmorats the White House now are the worst of the worst, the smelliest most foul POS to ever walk the earth. They voted almost 100% to give ILLEGALS more rights than the average American citizen. They are basically saying all legal American citizens are complete tools and should lie down and allow foreign criminals to rape, murder, and destroy all Americans and their families. That's your ghetto dwelling garbage that you voted for. Enjoy.

oh, and they want to raise taxes and bail out more corporations. ENJOY THAT ONE TOO!! smiling smiley
Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 04:26PM
"This is what you DEMOIDIOTS wanted, isn't it?

A corrupt cabal of democRATS running the show."


Oh my yes. That is precisely what we have always dreamt of. You have discovered our Master Plan. You are so brilliant in your wise disection of our motives.

"I guess the democRAT strategy is to lay off as many people as possible according to idiots like this." -Obie

Gosh gee-willikers our convoluted and cryptic plans are but transparent putty in your masterful and boundlessly astute hands. We can never pull anything over on you, Obie. Curses! We had never planned on coming up against such a deft and formidable foe.

"Blah blah blah [gushing, blithering idiocy] blah blah blah blah blah [shameless, rampant stupidity] blah blah blah [ludicrous, propagandistic nonsense] blah blah blah blah." -Obie

Some day you are going to realize that you are only hurting any argument you might have had to make with all this hyperbolic and asinine ridiculousness. Having appeared to everyone as such a complete buffoon, no one will ever take you seriously.

Obiewankadopie knows all.

What kind of genius loses a billion dollars in a year?
“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” BUT BUT BUT DIDN'T YOU SAY SADDAM NEVER POSED A THREAT??

smiling smiley smiling smiley smiling smiley "America will be far safer if we reduce the chances of a terrorist attack in one of our cities than if we diminish the civil liberties of our own people." smiling smiley smiling smiley smiling smiley GOTTA LOVE THIS ONE!!!

"But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy." - OF COURSE!!! MAKES PERFECT SENSE!!! PASS FIRST, THEN READ!!! How dare you serfs question your Queen?

"Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance." - ENDORSING LAZINESS AND WELFARE AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE. NICE!!! smiling smiley


Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998) smiling smiley smiling smiley smiling smiley

Because Queen Nancy of the democrats cares about you!!! THE AMERICAN!!!

Re: Want to Stimulate the Economy? Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits are where it's at, apparently.
July 07, 2010 04:52PM
HHH, they say it's not safe to wake a sleepwalker. Maybe we should just let him stagger along...








Ponderer, you are so empty headed that logic, if it ever entered your head, could wander for decades without reaching your skullcap.
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