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Political orientation predicts science denial –

By islander
September 17, 2021 5:20 am
Category: Politics
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Very interesting and informative article that is spot on!
"In the U.S., polling on intent to get vaccinated shows a massive political divide. Counties that went for Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential election show higher vaccination rates than counties that went for Donald Trump. Attendees at the Conservative Political Action Committee’s summer meeting cheered the fact that the U.S. didn’t meet Biden’s July 4 vaccination goals for the country."


Cited and related links:

  1. theconversation.com


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Comments:

  1. by HatetheSwamp on September 17, 2021 6:48 am

    Interesting.

    You're a fogey, isle.

    You have, quite unintentionally I'm sure, offered a testimony to your religion.

    You trust science as passionately as a Pentecostal Christian seeks the Holy Ghost.

    You have given your heart to the passé Newtonian worldview and its belief that science is the answer. You are a modernist. A fogey.

    For a few dacades the Western world has been attempting to articulate what supersedes trust in science.

    What forward thinking people have come to understand is that science is not the answer, it is a tool...and that science had harmed humanity more than it has benefited it.

    Your science has fashioned numerous weapons of mass destruction.

    When all the dust settles, we will know that this virus, which, was created in a scientific laboratory. And, try as they may, thousands of scien-tists have failed to defeat its creation. Many have died, from science.

    The Age of Science has reached its apex. The number of people who don't trust in it, as you do, is increasing...rapidly.

    Who are the people who, philosophically, have moved beyond your defunct worldview? The same two groups who always embrace the new way first: the young and the less educated, i.e., people who are less indoctrinated in the failed worldview through study and formal education.

    The young have been fiddling around with what sometimes is still called Postmodernism for decades.

    Interestingly, the less educated historically have been frontrunners in embracing the old worldview.

    You know too much and trust science. They, unencumbered by "knowledge," possess the common sense that allows them to see a new way.

    In this case, the less educated are able, where you are not, to see the truth about science and understand that belief in it is unjustified.

    You look down on people who have set aside wholehearted trust in science like Pentecostals disdain people who don't speak in tongues...

    ...but the truth is people who doubt the omnipotence of science are smirking at you in their rearview mirrors.

    It's your sanctimony that causes you call them antiscience. The truth is that they are sufficiently grounded in reality to see beyond the science which you trust. They are able to doubt.


  2. by islander on September 17, 2021 6:56 am

    Science is a method, and yes I trust the scientific method for giving us a clearer understanding of the physical universe than I would trust your method whatever your method might be.


  3. by HatetheSwamp on September 17, 2021 7:09 am
    isle,

    In my worldview, science is a potentially useful method that has always done the world more harm than good and, even at its best, is not omnipotent.

    My approach to science is indicated in my approach to the vaccines. I got vaxxed early but, to this day am concerned that my action may prove to be a mistake and, if I were a 20 or 30something, I suspect that I might still be unvaxxed...because, like many small p postmodernists, I know that science is not all it's cracked up to be.

    Obviously, few people are as intentionally philosophical about the vax, but, my guess is that if you dig beneath the surface, you'll find people thinking in the way I have just described.


  4. by islander on September 17, 2021 7:27 am

    One of the big flaws that is quite obvious in your thinking is that you believe that those of us who trust the scientific method over your method imagine that the scientific method of increasing our understanding of the physical world is somehow “omnipotent”, or that it makes scientists omnipotent.

    Using your method rather than the scientific method, how would you design a vaccine to help protect against a disease and then test its effectiveness?

    I’ll wait…


  5. by HatetheSwamp on September 17, 2021 7:40 am

    isle,

    From where I am, you behave as if science is omnipotent.

    Using my post Newtonian perspective, I'd use science to develop a vaccine but, having done that, I'd distrust the vax as a panacea AND I'd be cynical about the preaching of St. Anthony and the CDC mob.


  6. by islander on September 17, 2021 7:49 am

    I'd distrust the vax as a panacea AND I'd be cynical about the preaching of St. Anthony and the CDC mob." ---Hate

    You picked a good moniker, Hate. From your posts it's obvious that your hatred has distorted your ability to think clearly so you end up arguing against and fighting mischaracterizations that you have created in your own mind.


  7. by Donna on September 17, 2021 8:59 am
    It's true that scientific discoveries are often a two-edged sword. You can start by considering the scientific discovery of nuclear fission and fusion.

    OTOH, look around you. Literally everything you see, down to the computer you're using to communicate your mistrust of the scientific process, are the result of that very scientific process.


  8. by HatetheSwamp on September 17, 2021 10:03 am

    You picked a good moniker, Hate. From your posts it's obvious that your hatred has distorted your ability to think clearly so you end up arguing against and fighting mischaracterizations that you have created in your own mind.

    How so, isle?


  9. by HatetheSwamp on September 17, 2021 10:03 am

    You picked a good moniker, Hate. From your posts it's obvious that your hatred has distorted your ability to think clearly so you end up arguing against and fighting mischaracterizations that you have created in your own mind.

    How so, isle?


  10. by islander on September 17, 2021 7:03 pm

    One of your mischaracterizations is that you pretend that I and those who think of science the way I do, believe science or scientists are omnipotent. Another is that you pretend that those of us who think the scientific method is the best method we have found so far for describing the physical world, trust those descriptions with the same degree of certainty that religious people have for their religious beliefs and dogma.


  11. by HatetheSwamp on September 18, 2021 4:08 am

    My sense of you, isle, is that you are very enthusiastic about science pretty much in the way a Pentecostal is enthusiastic about the Holy Ghost. And, that's okay. You're a modernist. Most boomers are. There's nothing wrong with that. It's what you believe. It's what you do.

    The other day when Curt and you jumped all over my pregnant niece for being vax hestitant because the CDC recommends it. Duh. She is a typical postmodern woman who has a natural cynicism about science and scientists. You two?, the pronouncements of the CDC are like verses from the Book of Proverbs. If the CDC says it, you believe it, and that settles it.


  12. by islander on September 18, 2021 5:26 am

    ”My sense of you, isle, is that you are very enthusiastic about science pretty much in the way a Pentecostal is enthusiastic about the Holy Ghost”

    You have just proved my point. What you are calling, your sense of me is one of your mischaracterizations… In plain language it’s pure NONsense.

    No matter how often 'what the nature of the scientific method is' and 'how it works' is explained to you, and it is made clear why it cannot possibly be considered omnipotent, you continue to ignore and block out the explanation. And like a small child, when there are no more cookies, is shown the empty cookie jar, and it is explained to the child that there are no more cookies, the child simply continues to cry “I want a cookie”.

    Having raised three children and now blessed with grandchildren I’m used to that sort of thing.


  13. by HatetheSwamp on September 18, 2021 5:45 am

    Here's what I see, isle. You are what you do, as are all of us.

    The most telling exchange, to me, in the months we have harangued each other about COVID is your response to my pregnant niece and her vax hesitancy.

    Curt and you both indicated that the CDC indicates that the vax is safe for pregnant women. That's a perfectly typical modern, Newtonian way of thinking and there is nuthin wrong with it.

    Perhaps my use of adjective "omnipotent" is offputting and offensive but, in context, it fits here. The recommendation of the CDC is authoritative for you. Science rocks!

    My point is that my niece doesn't share your values. She's not a Newtonian, not a boomer modernist. She's not a ghetto person of color from NYC and she's not a pro Trump redneck. She's a millennial postmodern, post science person who takes the wisdom of science with a grain of salt.

    It disturbs me when Curt and po and Donna and you suggest that antivaxxers are rubes. Certainly, the vast number of antivax people of colo who are unvaxxed r are poorly educated, but I'm certain that you aren't criticizing them.

    The truth is that many of the youngish who are vax hestitant or antivax are very adequately educated. They simply operate on different values than do you.


  14. by islander on September 18, 2021 7:31 am

    ”Perhaps my use of adjective "omnipotent" is offputting and offensive but, in context, it fits here. The recommendation of the CDC is authoritative for you. Science rocks!” ___Hate

    Your problem is that you are still trying to equate science with religion. I think that kind of reasoning might have something to do with how your mind is wired. You continue to imagine that those of us who believe that to better understand and describe the physical universe, using the scientific method in order to do that is the best method we have found thus far. You still think we feel the same way about those findings as religious people do about their religious dogma. We don’t feel that way at all. We know that all scientific findings are tentative and could be modified or shown to be false or inadequate because of our incomplete knowledge at the time. Nor do we base our feelings on the reliability of a scientific finding on pure “authority”. The reason we feel a scientific finding is reliable is not simply because such and such a scientist or scientific organization says so. There is no “Rome has spoken” finality to our present understanding of the scientific description of the physical world. We use our reason and logic to weigh the evidence in order to form our conclusions and this is also how the scientific method works.

    ”The most telling exchange, to me, in the months we have harangued each other about COVID is your response to my pregnant niece and her vax hesitancy.

    I look at the evidence that shows the vaccine is safe for pregnant women and weigh it against the evidence that it is unsafe. This is just an example of ‘some’ of the evidence for the safety of the vaccine for pregnant women.

    “A survey of more than 17,000 pregnant and lactating individuals who received the COVID-19 vaccine showed that the individuals did not experience symptoms any more severe than their non-pregnant counterparts.

    The UW Medicine study, published today in JAMA Network Open, showed, “there were not any increased reactions in pregnant individuals beyond what is expected from a vaccine” said Dr. Linda Eckert, a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Washington School of Medicine and the study’s senior author.”

    “A recent study from Israel compared pregnant people who received an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine with those who did not. Scientists found that vaccination lowered the risk of infection from the virus that causes COVID-19. Vaccination of pregnant people builds antibodies that might protect their baby: When pregnant people receive an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine during pregnancy, their bodies build antibodies against COVID-19, similar to non-pregnant people. Antibodies made after a pregnant person received an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine were found in umbilical cord blood. This means COVID-19 vaccination during pregnancy might help protect babies against COVID-19.”


    This is not anecdotal evidence such as “my sister in law was vaccinated and had a miscarriage a week later”.

    Do you know of any large-scale studies (not anecdotal evidence) that have shown that the vaccines are harmful to pregnant women? I haven’t found any, but if you know of any I’d be happy to look at the evidence. Who knows, it might outweigh the evidence demonstrating its safety.



    newsroom.uw.edu


  15. by HatetheSwamp on September 18, 2021 8:03 am

    Your problem is that you are still trying to equate science with religion.

    isle,

    Based on the many years that we have been nagging each other on SS, it seems to me that science serves the same role in your life that "religion" plays in mine.

    Either you misunderstand what religion is or what science is.


  16. by islander on September 18, 2021 8:10 am

    The cookie jar is empty, Hate...


  17. by HatetheSwamp on September 18, 2021 8:17 am

    Huh


  18. by Donna on September 18, 2021 10:07 am
    Religious beliefs require no evidence. THAT'S the difference.


  19. by Curt_Anderson on September 21, 2021 8:48 pm
    This could have been HtS's niece.

    Idaho nurse who refused COVID vaccine dies: brother
    David Matthews, New York Daily News
    Tue, September 21, 2021, 10:22

    An Idaho nurse who refused the COVID-19 vaccine, and encouraged her family to do the same, even after her COVID-infected mother went into a coma, has died, according to her brother.

    Daryl Rise told CNN that his older sister Natalie Rise was a victim of disinformation.

    People like this nurse were not convinced that the vaccine is safe and it saves lives. But somehow she convinced herself that COVID isn't especially contagious or lethal despite what she must have seen in the hospital not to mention within her own family.
    yahoo.com




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