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Joe Biden on Facebook: "They're killin people."

By HatetheSwamp
July 17, 2021 5:06 am
Category: Politics
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It's time you woke, Swampcult progressive Blue MAGAs (re)read 1984.

The administration now, openly, pledges to work with Facebook to clamp down on misinformation, or, posts it considers to be inconvenient.

Free Speech is dead, unless the Supreme Court steps in.

Note to Curt: Watch out, or some day Big Bro may require you to delete offensive posts by pb. What a shame that would be.





The views and claims expressed by contributors are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and beliefs of SelectSmart.com. Not every statement made here can be assumed to be a fact.
Comments:

  1. by Curt Anderson on July 17, 2021 8:27 am
    What did Joe Biden say in that video clip that you disagree with? Since the advent of time medical misinformation has killed people.

    An undiscerning portion of the population trusts Facebook posts to be a reliable source of news and information. The White House or the government isn't censoring anybody, but they are flagging, that is identifying, posts that make false claims about the covid vaccine, such as it causes infertility.

    In answer to your question no I am not worried about Big Brother censoring these pages. Look at the upper right hand corner of this page. There is a literal flag so people (including Joe Blow or Joe Biden) can flag pernicious posts including those that might be harmful to the public health.


  2. by islander on July 18, 2021 8:40 am

    "Big Brother ?" I don't think so.

    "The White House is also trying now to combat disinformation and misinformation head on. Yesterday the Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy, issued a Surgeon General’s Advisory on the dangers of health misinformation. A Surgeon General’s Advisory is a public statement calling attention to a public health issue and making recommendations for addressing that issue.
    The advisory calls out social media for spreading false, inaccurate, or misleading information about both coronavirus and the vaccine, bad information that has led people to reject basic health measures like masks and to attack frontline workers trying to enforce those measures.

    The advisory blames social media in explicit terms, noting that misinformation is framed to hit emotions so that people get outraged and spread it quickly, that technology platforms incentivize people to share such highly charged content, and that social media platforms use algorithms to steer users toward content similar to things they have previously liked, building disinformation bubbles.

    “Health misinformation has cost us lives,” Murthy told reporters at the White House today. “Technology companies have enabled misinformation to poison our information environment with little accountability to their users.” *

    * Heather Cox Richardson


  3. by Donna on July 18, 2021 10:59 am
    My son is an anti-vaxxer because he lives on YouTube and believes complete and utter nonsense. Today he posted a video entitled "I will NOT take the COVID vax!" I've tried to reason with him, but he's immune to it. Reason is probably the only thing he's immune to.


  4. by HatetheSwamp on July 18, 2021 11:26 am
    "Big Brother ?" I don't think so.

    "The White House is also trying now to combat disinformation and misinformation head on. Yesterday the Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy, issued a Surgeon General’s Advisory on the dangers of health misinformation. A Surgeon General’s Advisory is a public statement calling attention to a public health issue and making recommendations for addressing that issue.


    There was a time when progressives were all about freedom. Today's progressives seem to yearn for 1984 to become America's reality.

    Today's Supreme Court seems to be very timid except in upholding the most basic freedoms which are included in the First Amendment. The Court may be America's only hope.

    The speech that the First Amendment is designed to protect is the very speech that the government would naturally curtail, even supress...

    ...and it boggles my mind that you progressives rush to stand in line with Big Bro in limiting inconvenient speech.

    My, how times have changed. My, how being progressive would make the progressives of my youth blow chow!


  5. by Curt Anderson on July 18, 2021 11:28 am
    Donna,
    I watched your son's video. Dr. Seuss might not approve. Am I right in assuming that he's not a Trumper? I know that anti-vaxxers are on both the left and right fringes politically. Some are in the "low-information voter" category.

    I am somewhat sympathetic with Facebook regarding the accusations of misinformation on vaccines that they allow on their site. Anti-COVID vaxxers look for and find misinformation that agrees with their wrongheaded misconceptions no matter how well falsehoods blocked or flagged.



  6. by HatetheSwamp on July 18, 2021 11:32 am
    My son is an anti-vaxxer because he lives on YouTube and believes complete and utter nonsense. Today he posted a video entitled "I will NOT take the COVID vax!" I've tried to reason with him, but he's immune to it. Reason is probably the only thing he's immune to.

    "He's immune to it." First rate play on words.

    Donna, you know well that I agree with you about vax. I'm sure you read that after our recent likely exposure to COVID, we began self-quarantine. You and I are on the same page, same paragraph about vaccines.

    But, this is a free country.


  7. by Donna on July 18, 2021 1:06 pm
    Dr. Seuss turned in his grave a few years ago. I guess my son is making sure he remains in that position. I don't get it. He used to love Green Eggs & Ham.

    My son definitely isn't a Trumper. He isn't an Anyone-er. He's never registered to vote.

    Thanks pbhts.

    I haven't heard anyone in government propose mandatory vaccinations. As much as I would want for every human being to be vaccinated (unless a medical condition prevents it,) that's a dangerous slippery slope.

    OTOH...

    Imagine a scenario where a deadly virus with a 100% mortality rate is certain to wipe out all of humanity unless at least 70% of humans are vaccinated. All of the world's disease control organizations agree with that assessment.

    In the first month a million people die, mostly in parts of the world that have no access to the vaccine. The death rate climbs to one billion and rises exponentially. The vaccination rate remains less than 50% in areas of the world that have full access to the vaccine.

    At what point should mandatory vaccinations be imposed?


  8. by Curt Anderson on July 18, 2021 1:56 pm
    Donna,
    Changing the subject...

    Since I can't pm you, I will just tell you here. After multiple interviews in front of committees, psychological exams, physical exams, and an extensive background check my son was hired by the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.


  9. by HatetheSwamp on July 18, 2021 2:17 pm
    Donna,

    If you don't mind, could message me a link to your son's video? If not, np.

    While I support the freedom of other citizens not to vax, we, of course, rushed to the front of the line and we don't personally know anyone who's an antivaxer.


  10. by Donna on July 18, 2021 3:49 pm
    I hope things work out for your son in LV.

    The only reason I brought up my son was because you were all discussing the rampant disinfo on social media.


  11. by Curt Anderson on July 18, 2021 4:17 pm
    Donna,
    To be fair, your son didn't present any misinformation. At worst it's an uninformed opinion. He's saying what he personally won't do. He's not really trying to convince anybody. Anybody who agrees him wasn't getting vaccinated anyway.


  12. by HatetheSwamp on July 18, 2021 4:34 pm
    I'm fascinated by this video. Mis/disinformation...uninformed?


  13. by Curt Anderson on July 18, 2021 4:41 pm
    HtS,
    Here you go...
    View Video


  14. by Donna on July 18, 2021 5:01 pm
    My son has been INFLUENCED by disinformation.


  15. by islander on July 19, 2021 4:08 am
    The speech that the First Amendment is designed to protect is the very speech that the government would naturally curtail, even supress...

    ...and it boggles my mind that you progressives rush to stand in line with Big Bro in limiting inconvenient speech.
    ---HtS

    We Don’t…The Surgeon General’s recommendations for addressing, head on, the disinformation and misinformation being spread about this disease is not about our government limiting inconvenient speech any more than the government is limiting inconvenient speech by making it a crime to put misinformation on your prescription bottle, and you can be taken to court for harming a person by publicly slandering that person.

    Even though spreading “fake news” is protected by the First Amendment as we progressives think it should be, spreading false and misleading information that leads to immediate harm is not protected. It boggles my mind that you don’t know the difference. At any rate, congress has passed no laws that I am aware of making it a crime to spread inconvenient misinformation on Facebook, here,or other social media platform. However, the First Amendment doesn’t prevent a private employer from setting its own rules.



  16. by HatetheSwamp on July 19, 2021 4:35 am
    Thanks for the link to the video, Curt.

    Charming. Amusing.

    Based on the video itself, I can't see how you believe that it's based on misinformation.

    I wish he would be vaccinated, but...

    At his apparent age, he's not at any greater risk from COVID than he'd be from the flu and, at his age I NEVER got a flu shot.


  17. by islander on July 19, 2021 4:44 am
    When it comes to antivaxers…we’re all free to avoid facing or accepting reality, but we’re not free to avoid the consequences. The reality, whether someone accepts it or not, is that getting vaccinated will help bring the disease under control, save lives, and prevent many from being hospitalized by a disease for which the long range effects are unknown. “Some” of the consequences of not being vaccinated are that the unvaccinated person will be far more likely contract the disease and spread it to someone else and will face the possibility of being restricted in many areas of normal activity such as travel etc.


  18. by islander on July 19, 2021 4:59 am

    at his age I NEVER got a flu shot --- HtS.

    Do you know how many deaths per year result from the more familiar influenza viruses in our country?

    Do you believe what the CDC says when it says,

    "While the virus that causes COVID-19 and flu viruses are thought to spread in similar ways, the virus that causes COVID-19 is generally more contagious than flu viruses. Also, COVID-19 has been observed to have more superspreading events than flu. This means the virus that causes COVID-19 can quickly and easily spread to a lot of people and result in continual spreading among people as time progresses."
    cdc.gov


  19. by HatetheSwamp on July 19, 2021 5:58 am
    isle,

    When the CDC and you begin by demanding that all 30 year olds must receive the flu vaccine, I'll lend you my ear.

    Were you getting the flu shot when you were 30?

    Donna's son's extremely unlikely to assume room temperature from COVID 19. I perfectly understand his reticence.

    Note: I've already said that I wish everyone who's eligible would be vaccinated. But, I refuse to condemn Donna's son.


  20. by islander on July 19, 2021 7:30 am

    I refuse to condemn Donna's son ---HtS

    And that has what, exactly, to do with the spreading of misinformation? No one here has condemned Donna’s son.

    And no, I didn’t get a flu shot when I was 30. But then, there was no pandemic at that time and 600,000 people hadn’t died from the flu.

    But again, what has that got to do with spreading disinformation about Covid-19 ?



  21. by HatetheSwamp on July 19, 2021 8:11 am
    isle,

    I pick up an implied condemnation from you of people who will not be vaccinated.


  22. by islander on July 19, 2021 8:50 am

    "I pick up an implied condemnation from you of people who will not be vaccinated"

    pb/hts,
    You are clueless. The reasons given by a majority of the people who say they will not get vaccinated show that they are the “victims of”, not “the perpetrators of disinformation” although they might unwittingly spread the misinformation that they have been led to believe is true. That’s why Covid has now become a disease of the unvaccinated.

    I condemn the perpetrators of disinformation and those who knowingly spread misinformation.


  23. by Donna on July 19, 2021 8:54 am
    Exactly, islander.


  24. by Curt Anderson on July 19, 2021 9:13 am
    Were you getting the flu shot when you were 30? -HtS

    I didn't get a flu shot every year when I was young either.

    But I don't recall that flu shots were free and easily attainable the way the Covid vaccine is now.


  25. by HatetheSwamp on July 19, 2021 11:59 am
    pb/hts,
    You are clueless. The reasons given by a majority of the people who say they will not get vaccinated show that they are the “victims of”, not “the perpetrators of disinformation” although they might unwittingly spread the misinformation that they have been led to believe is true. That’s why Covid has now become a disease of the unvaccinated.


    isle, I'd love for some documentation for that because it sounds to me like self-serving, sanctimonious vaxerspeak.

    Yet, I do pount out that when Clouseau and Kammy expressed distrust in Trump's vaccine during the campaign, they were the first antivaxers


  26. by HatetheSwamp on July 19, 2021 12:04 pm
    But I don't recall that flu shots were free and easily attainable the way the Covid vaccine is now.

    Curt,

    Splain to me what that has to do with ANYTHING!


  27. by Curt Anderson on July 19, 2021 12:12 pm
    HtS, you are the one who asked about getting flu shots when younger (at 30). You must have thought it was relevant.


  28. by Curt Anderson on July 19, 2021 1:11 pm
    Yet, I do pount out that when Clouseau and Kammy expressed distrust in Trump's vaccine during the campaign, they were the first antivaxers --HtS

    Not trusting Trump doesn't make anybody an antivaxxer. Why would anybody take Trump's word as true on any subject?

    "I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump" on the reliability of a vaccine, Harris said. She added that she would trust a credible source who could vouch that a vaccine was safe for Americans to receive.
    politico.com


  29. by HatetheSwamp on July 19, 2021 1:24 pm
    Point is, Curt, the whole culture of cynicism regarding the vax has roots in Clouseau and Kammy's angst and the Hear Hear!, support they received from so many SwampDems and members of the SwampMedia.


  30. by HatetheSwamp on July 19, 2021 1:26 pm
    What does the price of the Trump COVID vaccine have to do with anything?


  31. by Curt Anderson on July 19, 2021 1:46 pm
    HtS,
    So you think it's the fault of Democrats, the non-Trump media and especially Biden and Harris. Your theory is that these "cynics" have a lot of sway when it comes to vaccine hesitancy which is most problematic in the red states and conservative districts that voted for Trump. I disagree with your assessment.

    I didn't always have health insurance or the money to see a doctor to get a flu shot. That's not an excuse with the Covid vaccine.



  32. by islander on July 19, 2021 3:08 pm

    isle, I'd love for some documentation for that because it sounds to me like self-serving, sanctimonious vaxerspeak.

    What would be the point?




  33. by Donna on July 20, 2021 8:09 am
    Regarding my July 18 1:06pm post on this thread -

    In the scenario I laid out, at what point should mandatory vaccinations be imposed?

    I asked then, but no one responded.


  34. by islander on July 20, 2021 8:49 am

    Donna, in my opinion, under those circumstances mandatory vaccination should begin immediately. When making choices like that I weigh the consequences of each choice.


  35. by HatetheSwamp on July 20, 2021 9:03 am
    Donna,

    You ask a good question that's hard to answer as a hypothetical.

    I know that, during times of war, rights have been suspended here because the nation was unquestionably under threat and in crisis. My knowledge of those times, which isn't comprehensive, suggests to me that a strong President, working with a majority of the members of Congress took those actions...and I think that, in extreme circumstances, Rights can be suspended.

    Clearly, in my opinion, we're not there with COVID and, to this point, never have been close.

    On the old forum, I said several times that I thought Trump's moral leadership regarding COVID was an abomination.

    I don't think that the current administration is providing moral leadership in COVID that is much stronger than Trump's.

    These are a lot of words to say that, in a republic, the moment you describe is one that we will agree on...with wise Executive leadership and responsible representation.


  36. by Curt Anderson on July 20, 2021 9:33 am
    At what point should mandatory vaccinations be imposed? --Donna

    Never. However, those without proof of vaccination should be excluded from a lot of places (or allowed only in a specific segregated area, like a smoking section). Private establishments, airlines, colleges, schools and other public spaces can ask for proof of vaccination.
    Respondible vaccinated people should not have to be concerned about the 1% risk of breakthrough infections from the unvaccinated.


  37. by HatetheSwamp on July 20, 2021 10:34 am
    Never. However, those without proof of vaccination should be excluded from a lot of places (or allowed only in a specific segregated area, like a smoking section). Private establishments, airlines, colleges, schools and other public spaces can ask for proof of vaccination.
    Respondible vaccinated people should not have to be concerned about the 1% risk of breakthrough infections from the unvaccinated.


    Curt,

    I applaud your strategy for dealing with the unvaccinated...

    ...but, when?


  38. by islander on July 20, 2021 10:38 am

    Curt, I might agree with you under a different scenario, one in which 70% of the population were vaccinated but in PO’s scenario the vaccination rate remains below 50%.


  39. by Donna on July 20, 2021 10:48 am
    The problem with unvaccinated people is that they can become mutation factories, which in turn would reduce the eficacy of the vaccine. So in a scenario like the one I lay out, unless unvaccinated people are forced to be vaccinated, the continuation of our species could be in jeopardy.

    After watching this current crop of Republicans, I have absolutely zero confidence that they'd impose mandatory vaccinations in such a scenario.

    OTOH, getting everyone on the planet vaccinated would probably be impossible.

    The only thing we can do, for what it's worth, is hope there's never a virus like that.



  40. by Donna on July 20, 2021 10:50 am
    islander - My scenario, not Po's.


  41. by islander on July 20, 2021 11:05 am

    Right! My mistake! Am I forgiven Donna ?


  42. by HatetheSwamp on July 20, 2021 11:06 am
    Donna,

    In your scenario, a billion are infected and the virus is spreading "exponentially."

    We are toast.

    After watching this current crop of Republicans, I have absolutely zero confidence that they'd impose mandatory vaccinations in such a scenario.

    I'm certain that you are sincere, wrong, imo, but sincere.

    My sense is that the two sides have come to think so ill of each other that constructive discourse may not be possible for the moment.

    I blame Trump for that to a very significant degree. The rest of the problem I blame on the Dems for nominating a demented and doddering old fart and for the cynics who voted for him.


  43. by islander on July 20, 2021 11:16 am

    ” So in a scenario like the one I lay out, unless unvaccinated people are forced to be vaccinated, the continuation of our species could be in jeopardy” --Donna

    That, to me, makes your hypothetical scenario a good one for discussion. It’s like real life in that we are often forced to make decisions based on the "information we have" which is seldom complete. This can sometimes give you an inside look into a person based on that person's decisions.

    .


  44. by Donna on July 20, 2021 11:27 am
    islander - You are forgiven.

    I agree with HTS that we'd be toast if the virus were easily transmittable and 100% fatal. A remnant of humanity would probably survive, though.

    Changing my hypothetical scenario to 25% fatal complicates the situation. Still thinking about that.




  45. by islander on July 20, 2021 11:32 am

    In the scenario, based on the information we have, it would appear that at least, but certainly far more than half the population of the world would be wiped out. As the number of unvaccinated people die, at some point the percentage of those left (the vaccinated) would reach the 70% mark, It would happen rapidly and billions would die. This is why, if I were responsible for making the decision, I would immediately implement mandatory vaccinations.



  46. by HatetheSwamp on July 20, 2021 11:37 am
    So, 25% who contract the disease die?


  47. by Donna on July 20, 2021 11:44 am
    Yes, that would be what 25% fatal means.


  48. by Donna on July 20, 2021 11:51 am
    The biggest challenge, besides developing a vaccine in time, would be distributing it to every country. That's been a huge problem with the COVID vaccines. There are still many countries who don't have it or don't have an ample supply of it. So all of those countries have become massive mutation factories. I often wonder how long the Pfizer vaccination will protect Sheri and I.


  49. by HatetheSwamp on July 20, 2021 12:09 pm
    Donna,

    Here's a question. By whose authority will the the mandatory vaccination be declared and enforced?


  50. by Donna on July 20, 2021 12:14 pm
    I you're talking globally, I would think the UN.


  51. by islander on July 20, 2021 12:56 pm

    How do you all feel about the death of this women, Linda Zuern, who died of Covid 19. She was a selectwoman from Cape Cod MA?

    This ties in with our currant discussion here.
    patch.com


  52. by Curt Anderson on July 20, 2021 1:01 pm
    Islander,
    Unvaccinated Cape Official, Trump Supporter Dies Of COVID-19. Former Bourne selectwoman Linda Zuern promoted conspiracy theories about the coronavirus as a member of a pro-Trump group on Cape Cod.

    I favor Darwinism.


  53. by islander on July 20, 2021 1:46 pm

    Curt,
    I often wonder how Trump's supporters, his enablers and the anti-vaxers feel when they read something like this, and when they have to face the fact that Covid-19 is now the disease of the unvaccinated.


  54. by Curt Anderson on July 20, 2021 1:57 pm
    Islander,
    I am imagine it must be sobering for the Trump supporting vaccine resistant.

    It reminds a bit of when I was in college and I'd hear about somebody overdosing on some illicit drug. Dead people can be effective messengers.

    I've been through Bourne, btw. It's a stop on the Peter Pan bus line. We've taken it from Logan to Martha's Vineyard.


  55. by islander on July 20, 2021 2:29 pm

    Curt,
    I grew up in that area, know it well and spent a great deal of time "out on the Cape" as we'd say. Tried living in the south for a number of years but finally got homesick for New England. We're now settling in in our little place up here on the coast of Main to spend our retirement years doing what we love most, reading, gardening, and spending time on our hobbies.


  56. by Curt Anderson on July 20, 2021 4:29 pm
    Islander,
    I could have been happy in New England. When I left Wisconsin at age 22 or 23, it was practically a coin flip as to which coastal state I would head. Oregon won.

    My in-laws have a place in Martha's Vineyard. We've been there at least a half dozen times. My wife is flying back there next month. I declined to join her on the trip this time. Tending the garden was a good excuse not to go again.

    On other visits to New England, I've spent a few time in Boston, a business trip to Springfield, MA and a couple of nights in a cabin in Saco, ME.


  57. by HatetheSwamp on July 21, 2021 4:34 am
    How do you all feel about the death of this women, Linda Zuern, who died of Covid 19. She was a selectwoman from Cape Cod MA?>/b>

    I'm sad for her. Obviously, I disagree with her conspiracy theories.

    Still, if we are to be a people who live in liberty, people with wacky beliefs must be permitted to live freely.

    Freedom is only freedom when fringe people are free.

    I wonder about the rest of you here who are always asking how soon and easily liberty can be constrained.

    In further response to your question, isle, I feel sad for Linda Zuern but I'm happy that this is still a nation where she could die being true to herself.


  58. by islander on July 21, 2021 5:34 am

    ‘In further response to your question, isle, I feel sad for Linda Zuern but
    I'm happy that this is still a nation where she could die being true to herself.”


    This is where we probably differ. I think being honest with oneself is a priceless quality but I’m not sure if that’s what you mean when you say she was being true to herself. If being true to herself means spreading disinformation that is harming and killing others then I disagree with you that being true to yourself, as in her case, is always an admirable quality.

    If it were in a person's nature to be a thief or a child molester I would not want to live in a country where such people could be free to be true to themselves.



  59. by HatetheSwamp on July 21, 2021 5:59 am
    If being true to herself means spreading disinformation that is harming and killing others then I disagree with you that being true to yourself, as in her case, is always an admirable quality.

    Disinformation.

    When was the last time you read 1984?

    The truth is that the best informed people about COVID know a small fraction of what we'll know in only a few years. Even the sainted Anthony of Fauci has changed direction more often than Ricochet Rabbit. Undoubtedly, much of the truth of today will, ultimately, be known to be, at least, slightly flawed. Even today's best informed researchers are swimming in a chaotic sea of data.

    These days, misinformation, isle, is, to a significant degree, what you disagree with.

    Interestingly, as far as I can tell, what you believe about COVID is, perhaps, in full agreement with what I believe. The difference between us is that I consider the things I believe to be BELIEFS...not settled "information."


    If it were in a person's nature to be a thief or a child molester I would not want to live in a country where such people could be free to be true to themselves.

    Are you serious!

    The Bill of Rights is not license. Clearly, citizens are obliged to obey the law.

    Please don't equate disagreement with isle as law breaking.


  60. by islander on July 21, 2021 7:38 am

    Interestingly, as far as I can tell, what you believe about COVID is, perhaps, in full agreement with what I believe. The difference between us is that I consider the things I believe to be BELIEFS...not settled "information.

    This is where you begin to lose me. If you want to converse with me you’re going to have to stop pretending that you know what I think and imagine that you can bluff your way through a discussion with me.



  61. by HatetheSwamp on July 21, 2021 7:51 am
    isle,

    This thread alone has gone on for 60 posts. Other threads here touch on the same issue.

    You practice the precision of a skilled surgeon in lashing out at what you believe to be misinformation. It's obvious from that what you take to be information.

    And, I was humble enough to hedge my bets. Based on what you disagree with and what raises your neck hairs, knowing my own opinions, I don't take offense or object to anything you write here about COVID itself, or the COVID vax.

    Be honest. What is it about COVID itself or the vaccine, that I have written here that you disagree with.

    My very strong sense is that our differences about COVID are political and, as always, philosophical.

    If I'm wrong, please detail how I'm wrong.


  62. by Curt Anderson on July 21, 2021 8:28 am
    Even the sainted Anthony of Fauci has changed direction more often than Ricochet Rabbit.

    It's called science. You go with the best information based on the facts as known at the time. If new contradictory information becomes available you share that update.

    If science and medicine were immutable like religion, Dr. Fauci might warning America about evil humours in the blood and advising the application of blood sucking leeches.





  63. by HatetheSwamp on July 21, 2021 9:43 am
    Wow, Curt, I'm not sure I've ever encountered a Christian Fundamentalist more dogmatic.

    The issue in the moment is that the best science has to offer is both unsettled and uncertain.

    Do I need to post AGAIN St. Anthony mansplaining why wearing a mask is total silliness!!!!!?

    The best thing to do now is to live as wisely as possible and employ common sense and understand that tomorrow St. Anthony may do yet another 180.


  64. by islander on July 21, 2021 2:41 pm

    Curt, I have little doubt that you’re unaware of the poor arguments used by many people who, based on their misunderstanding of science, try to explain why science cannot be trusted to give us absolute certainty…as if giving us that kind of certainty was the job of science. They waste a lot of time justifying that fundamental mischaracterization of science.

    Our understanding of what science can tell us was, and is, based on using our logic and reasoning to give us a clearer understanding of the empirical data that’s been collected and available to us at any given time, which is how science works.

    But some of the explanations and conclusions in the past, as would be expected, were incomplete and sometimes in error (and this hold true for today) due to the fact that our data will likely always be incomplete. Therefore, to the “believer’s” way of thinking, basing our understanding on the findings of science is no better than their “beliefs” whether they arrived at them through wishful thinking or unjustifiable opinions. They can then claim that it is raining because they asked the rain god to make it rain, and then claim their “belief” is just as apt to be true as the scientific explanation since science can’t say there explanations are true with absolute certainty any more than they can. Science, however, can demonstrate why it’s raining using the empirical evidence and data that we actually do have which is something the believer cannot do.

    Of course anybody is free to believe whatever they want. If someone wants to believe that the Covid-19 pandemic is a hoax, for example, they can. Linda Zuern, despite the readily available evidence and data showing otherwise…chose unjustifiable belief.





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SNL Alum Jim Breuer mocks Biden portraying unvaxxed as "the beast," "the demon"
Health by HatetheSwamp     September 16, 2021 3:40 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Curt_Anderson (1 comments) [105 views]


Sean Trende: Biden's Job Approval Has Entered Dangerous Territory
Politics by HatetheSwamp     September 16, 2021 7:56 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by (0 comments) [50 views]


Are you in favor of Democracy?
Politics by islander     September 15, 2021 6:59 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Curt_Anderson (4 comments) [191 views]


Woodward: Gen. Mark Milley General called China over fears Trump could order military strike
Media by HatetheSwamp     September 15, 2021 3:00 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (1 comments) [29 views]


Quinnipiac Poll: Joe's Approval tanks to 42%
Politics by HatetheSwamp     September 14, 2021 5:59 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by HatetheSwamp (2 comments) [133 views]


My prediction about the Republicans' recall prediction
Politics by Curt_Anderson     September 14, 2021 10:20 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Curt_Anderson (7 comments) [122 views]


Another radio host who urged listeners to boycott COVID-19 vaccines dies from COVID-19
Media by Curt_Anderson     September 14, 2021 6:49 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Curt_Anderson (4 comments) [78 views]


Long Beach is the political center of America tonight
Politics by Curt_Anderson     September 13, 2021 7:26 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (1 comments) [146 views]


Norm Macdonald (RIP) on COVID
Comics by HatetheSwamp     September 14, 2021 3:08 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Curt_Anderson (2 comments) [125 views]


Making the Taliban Great Again
Humor by HatetheSwamp     September 14, 2021 1:49 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by (0 comments) [93 views]


Biden, well, lies about first job offer
Career by HatetheSwamp     September 14, 2021 1:30 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Curt_Anderson (1 comments) [34 views]


Donna & Ponderer: Did you vote?
Politics by Curt_Anderson     September 13, 2021 8:28 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (9 comments) [77 views]


Dr. Collins answers criticism of "messaging" about Covid, vaccines, etc.
Government by Curt_Anderson     September 13, 2021 6:03 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by islander (3 comments) [62 views]


My unvaxed brother is in the hospital with COVID
Family by Donna     September 12, 2021 2:27 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Ponderer (22 comments) [285 views]


Business welcomes Biden's plan to get Americans vaccinated.
Business by Curt_Anderson     September 11, 2021 2:27 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Ponderer (3 comments) [211 views]


A British psychoanalyst who studied Hitler would have been fascinated by Donald Trump
History by Curt_Anderson     September 11, 2021 8:43 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Ponderer (19 comments) [447 views]


Conservative rally has dismal turnout in conservative county of conservative state.
Politics by Curt_Anderson     September 12, 2021 8:33 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (4 comments) [112 views]


I Blame Trump
History by Ponderer     September 10, 2021 10:17 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (13 comments) [330 views]


Trump adviser Stephen Miller warned of 'Iraqs and 'Stans' in the US while slow-walking the entry of Afghan allies
Government by Curt_Anderson     September 4, 2021 7:30 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Donna (55 comments) [976 views]


Who or what is a "racist" ?
Politics by islander     September 9, 2021 2:57 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Ponderer (18 comments) [284 views]


"Not a matter of freedom or personal choice." Joe throws out red meat to America's fascists.
Politics by HatetheSwamp     September 10, 2021 9:25 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Ponderer (12 comments) [82 views]


BBC: "Joe Biden: Covid vaccination in US will not be mandatory"
Politics by HatetheSwamp     September 10, 2021 1:38 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Curt_Anderson (16 comments) [170 views]


For people of the time our parents and grandparents, it was normal to be racist.
History by Curt_Anderson     September 9, 2021 9:21 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by HatetheSwamp (22 comments) [168 views]


Do these statements qualify as presidential dementia?
President by Curt_Anderson     September 10, 2021 10:14 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by Curt_Anderson (4 comments) [36 views]


Real doctors don't prescribe Ivermectin for COVID-19
Law by Curt_Anderson     September 9, 2021 11:15 am (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by HatetheSwamp (4 comments) [61 views]


See if you can spot the logical fallacy in this New York Post op-ed
Journalism by Curt_Anderson     September 9, 2021 10:53 pm (Rating: 0.0)
Last comment by (0 comments) [36 views]


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