Exactly. It's like that episode of the Simpsons where Mr. Burns claims the nuclear facility is not damaging the environment so Madge serves him the 3-eyed fish for dinner.
How long has the government (and I would assume the CDC) been claiming Agent Orange was not harmful, Gulf War Syndrome is "psychosomatic", GMOs are safe, etc... etc...
Again... forgive me for believing the 2-yr old who has no agenda.
PowerToThePeople Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's clear to me that the researchers, by phrasing
> their conclusions that way, are leaving themselves
> an out.
>
> There's a parallel between medical researchers,
> who after conducting exhaustive studies of a
> certain mystery illness which didn't reveal any
> underlying physiological or environmental factors,
> conclude falsely as a sort of default that the
> cause must be psychological in origin...
The Morgellons crowd (and apparently you and Indy) are basically saying "Hey, CDC prove it's not environmental!" It is always more difficult to prove a negative than a positive. The CDC was able to prove some positives, for example they analyzed the mystery fibers that seemed to growing from the patients sores and discovered that they were bits of cloth and nylon.
To expect that the CDC could make an affirmative statement that all possible environmental causes of Morgellons were excluded just isn't realistic. Likewise, if you challenged me it would be very difficult for me prove that there is no such thing as a talking rabbit. "Did you try talking to every rabbit in the world?", you might ask. "Maybe the talking rabbit was just being shy." If you insisted that you really did talk to a rabbit (and it talked back), I would go to that default you mentioned and conclude that you are an Elwood P. Dowd and have a psychological problem.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2012 12:50AM by Curt Anderson.
Indy,
No that is not what I said or even thought. First off, evidence indicates that it is a malady...a psychiatric malady. Secondly, I am not saying it's a case closed scenario. But considering the high probability that it's a mental disease, enough tax payer money and time has been spent researching this. If the Morgellons Society (or whatever they call themselves) come up with an infectious or an environmental cause then that can be tested and excluded (or not) as a cause.
The CDC even titled the summary of their report, "CDC Study of an Unexplained Dermopathy".
After a four year study, they concluded:
"Upon thorough analysis, most sores appeared to result from chronic scratching and picking, without an underlying cause. The materials and fibers obtained from skin-biopsy specimens were mostly cellulose, compatible with cotton fibers.
Neuropsychological testing revealed a substantial number of study participants who scored highly in screening tests for one or more co-existing psychiatric or addictive conditions, including depression, somatic concerns (an indicator of preoccupation with health issues), and drug use.
This comprehensive study of an unexplained apparent dermopathy demonstrated no infectious cause and no evidence of an environmental link. There was no indication that it would be helpful to perform additional testing for infectious diseases as a potential cause." See: [www.cdc.gov]
Makes sense that scratching over clothing might push microscopic fibers into open sores. Even a two year old could do that. Even washing open sores with a wash cloth could do that. Upon googling this, looks like alien infestation is a real theory out there and I thought I was just kidding! I think the itching is a separate malady than the fibers since the fibers can be explained via mundane means. The itching could be something physical like those in withdrawal often report feeling like bugs are crawling under their skin and/or psychological. Why did you bring it up in the first place, PttP? Do you know someone with the complaint?
Indy! Wrote:
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> I suppose we all agree that anything is possible.
>
But we don't seem to agree that some things are probable and some things are unlikely. Nor do we agree that the CDC "copped out" by concluding psychological issues are at play here.
Sam, I don't know anyone with Morgellon's. I just thought it was interesting.
The problem I have with the establishment medical community's conclusion that Morgellon's sufferers are just nuts is that there's no evidence that they're nuts. Essentially they're saying "We couldn't find the cause of their ailment, so they must be nuts". It would be more honest to say simply "We couldn't find the cause of their ailment".
Exactly. The old "they're nuts" response is no different than the days when they said a person was "possessed" or "a witch" when they couldn't figure out what was wrong with them. The first rule of science (imho) is we don't know everything. So let's not pretend like we do.
PttP,
Why should the CDC ignore mental issues as a cause? Furthermore, they did find and have good reason to consider psychiatric causes:
Quote:
Neuropsychological testing revealed a substantial number of study participants who scored highly in screening tests for one or more co-existing psychiatric or addictive conditions, including depression, somatic concerns (an indicator of preoccupation with health issues), and drug use. [www.cdc.gov]
Call me crazy, but the CDC's conclusion is more credible to me than the theories being put forth by Morgellon "support groups" including nano-technology implants and alien infestation. Especially when we know the origin of the mystery fibers.
The mystery fibers that have been IDed as known fabrics doesn't discount the symptoms that are being reported by sufferers. They just want answers. Sure, some of the possible causes some sufferers are coming up with are really out there, but that can be a result of desperation rather than some kind of psychological problem.
Neuropsychological testing revealed a substantial number of study participants who scored highly in screening tests for one or more co-existing psychiatric or addictive conditions, including depression, somatic concerns (an indicator of preoccupation with health issues), and drug use. [www.cdc.gov]
Pfft. It sounds like they're manufacturing a basis for their conclusion that Morgellon's sufferers are nuts. I, too, suffer from chronic depression. I'm concerned, sometimes pre-occupied with health issues. I also smoke pot.
The medical community is trying to pull the same thing on those 12 students in New York, the "they're all nuts" diagnosis. It'll be interesting to see what else Erin Brockovich uncovers.
I read something else that said nearly half of all Morgellons sufferers also suffer from Lyme Disease which might mean the symptoms of morgellons could be other symptoms of Lyme...If the sufferers think fibers are growing out of their skin, they ARE nuts...
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read something else that said nearly half of all
> Morgellons sufferers also suffer from Lyme Disease
> which might mean the symptoms of morgellons could
> be other symptoms of Lyme...If the sufferers think
> fibers are growing out of their skin, they ARE
> nuts...
Figures.
Lyme disease is a real disease, but there is an entire industry of doctors willing to diagnose any vague complaint or symptom as "Lyme disease" and then sell their patients all sorts of sham treatments. My doctor friend told me that he's had patients who come into his office convinced they have Lyme disease. In one case, he asked the patient if she lived near or visited any wooded areas where ticks might be--she hadn't, and certainly not any woods in the Northeast where the ticks that carry Lymes disease are known to be. Nor did she have symptoms of Lyme disease. Look up "Lyme disease quackery".
But the study shouldn’t be interpreted to conclude that the problem is all in sufferers' heads, [Mark L.] Eberhard [director of the division of parasitic diseases and malaria at the Centers for Disease Control and Infection] stressed. Instead, it should be a baseline for future research and encouragement for patients and their doctors to work together, harder, to find a cause.
“These people are definitely suffering from something,” Eberhard said. “It has impacted their lives greatly.”
I also heard something about the "mystery" illness of the NY girls, that they were all given the guardasil (sp?) vaccine so the theory that a trainwreck leaving toxic chemicals behind which got into the water supply may be off-base. That said, if it was guardasil, why only those girls in that school unless there was a bad batch or something. Interesting cases...
Sam,
The NY school girl case has all the signs of mass hysteria. They aren't faking it, but it's all in their heads. Adolescent girls are particularily suseptible to being caught up in these waves. Recently Portuguese girls "caught" a disease from a popular soap opera star...via TV. [en.wikipedia.org] More famously, as you know, the impetus for Salem witch hunt was mass hysteria.
Yep. Adolescent girls seem to be involved in most reported cases of poltergeist activity as well. More mass hysteria involving the family members who report it. Brains are tricky, eh? Crazy.
Curt - You seem convinced that all Morgellon's sufferers are nuts. The director of the division of parasitic diseases and malaria at the Centers for Disease Control and Infection said that the study shouldn’t be interpreted to conclude that the problem is all in sufferers' heads. Where is the director's thinking in error?
