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Don's and Sid's Discussion

Posted by Hard to Starboard! 
Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 11, 2011 06:20PM
Sid, we'll get to all the points but first some clarification. First, I don't subscribe to labels, pesonally. Most of the thime I don't know what they mean and many others don't either. I don't consider myself evangelical. Fudamentalist? Nope; definitely not libeal.................if any thing I'm just a plain ol' simple bible believing conservative Christian.

I believe in the inerrancy of the bible; I believe Jesus said what he meant and meant what He said; I am Christian...........so please don't put any tags on me. Just call me Christian. (you can call me Don,too. smiling smiley )

I'll add more as the day progresses. **Please do ask me some pointed questions here so I dion't have to go to the other forum. *Here's the positive point...Sam won't come over here thumbs up
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 11, 2011 07:31PM
Sid, one of the problems with your erroneous allegations is you believe because I, and other Christians, are American, we support all that you have mentioned that America does. NOT!

I am first a Christian. Second I am a citizen of the United States. If there is any conflict between the two then my Christian beliefs override whatever the government says. I do not support torture in any fashion; I do not support war unless attacked; I support the death penalty as in the time of Jesus stoning was accepted for the punishment of sin.....the same in the Muslim countries; Handguns only as a necessity for personal and home protection.....I don't have one and the one I inherited I gave away. We support the poor by giving to their need........not thru an organization but directly. In fact we are feeding a family now in our neighborhood.

The difference between an American Christian and a Muslim is. we are not born into the faith. It is something we accept voluntarily. We must be born again into Jesus, unlike you when you are born you are automatically a Muslim. You have no choice.

You are born of the flesh and Jesus said flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God. I am born of the womb and also of the water and spirit. It is the spirit which goes back to God.

If a Muslim comes to our country he/she has the right to worship as they please. In the Muslim world I would be stoned to death.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 11, 2011 08:10PM
Sid, Sid, Sid...........................HELLO, I'm waiting.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 12, 2011 02:27AM
Thanks for creating this thread. I don't know the difference between these two forums.

"unlike you when you are born you are automatically a Muslim. You have no choice. "

A lot of people convert to Islam from every possible religion and nonreligion.

"If a Muslim comes to our country he/she has the right to worship as they please. In the Muslim world I would be stoned to death. "

The reason is the opposite, Don: it's because after ruling for hundreds of years, Westerners pushed Christianity and the church away from politics and governance. Many Muslims on the other hand would love an Islamic theocracy. To us it's superior to western liberal democracy. Would *you* like to live under a Christian theocracy? Is it superior to western liberal democracy?

Anyway, back to the main point: how do you reconcile the intense negativity you feel about Muslims with what Jesus preached? I'm honestly curious.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 12, 2011 03:06AM
Sid, I'm really not negative about anyone. In fact the person decides by their actions how they should be treated. I cannot reconcile myself to your religion because I beleive it is a false one. It is not frrom God. Remember, in Christianity we are to love the person, not what they do. (love the sinner, hate the sin). Therefore I HAVE to love the muslims as it is mandated by God. That does not mean I accept the beliefs.

In Christianty we have total freedom. We may serve Jehovah or not. It is up to us. That is what is called free will. Can you walk away from your religion and accept another one?

Here's another question: If I go to one of your muslim countries, is it possbiel for me to start a Christian Church and convert Muslims to Christianity? Can I do this in Syria, Bahrain, or the many others? you can my country.

Later.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 12, 2011 05:17AM
Sid, what is your take on scuicide bombers? Not only do they take the lives of others but their own, too. Jesus said He came into the world to save, not to kill. Scripture also says, do ye not know ye are the temple of God? It's a sin to destroy God's temple, His dwelling place.

Or should we discuss Libya? Muslim killinig Muslim. Or how about the Iran-Iraq war. How long did it last and how many of the brotherhood were slain? Million(s)? How many women and children did Saddam gas? These were the innocents.

Suicide bombers in New York killing over three thousand innocents. Suicide bombers in Muslim countries killing each other in the market places.

Come on, Sid, let's get real.

Please do not say, "well the same things happen in America. Sid, America is not a Christian nation. Perhaps it used to be but not now. But a Muslim is a Muslim, is a Muslim. An American is not always a Christian.............far from it.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 12, 2011 10:16PM
I moved this post to Tuks discussion..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2011 10:19PM by Hard to Starboard!.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 13, 2011 12:15AM
"Sid, I'm really not negative about anyone...in Christianity we are to love the person, not what they do"

Then why is it that so many Christians are supporting American's malevolent invasions of Islamic countries? Why are they fervently supporting Israel, whose record of war crimes is almost unparalleled? If the percentage was negligible (the like percentage of Muslim terrorists), I'd say it's an exception, but the percentages are very high and the voices very loud.

"In Christianty we have total freedom. We may serve Jehovah or not. It is up to us. That is what is called free will. Can you walk away from your religion and accept another one? "

No. And I don't want to either, because a religion that says "either follow me or don't" doesn't sound like it's confident in its ability to save people. In your own home, do you set boundaries for your kids? You know, the curfews, what not to eat, what not to say and not do, do you teach them all that? I'm sure you do. But do you emphasize that your commands must be obeyed? Or do you tell them "but if you don't want to follow them, that's alright too"? Will your children respect you or your commands then?

Also, what's your opinion on Deuteronomy 13:6-9?

"Here's another question: If I go to one of your muslim countries, is it possbiel for me to start a Christian Church and convert Muslims to Christianity? Can I do this in Syria, Bahrain, or the many others? you can my country. "

The only reason I can is because it's not a Christian theocracy; the US is secular. When Christianity ruled, the punishments for heresy were so horrific. I mean in some Islamic countries the punishment is instant death, but under the inquisition, it was sadistic, brutal torture to death or near death.

And like I said, when a religion tells people "either follow or don't", it doesn't strike me as God's religion. I expect something as holy and important as that to be forcefully commanded, with nothing else accepted. This is God we're talking about; one's final and eternal fate after death. Something this important should have no ambiguity or choice.

You would tell your kids "NEVER play near the street", because you don't want them to get hit by a car and die. Do you give them a choice? Do you say "...unless you really want to, then it's alright to play in the freeway?" Of course not. Isn't life and death less important than the stuff we're talking about here?
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 13, 2011 12:37AM
"Sid, what is your take on scuicide bombers? "

1. If they are targeting innocent civilians, it is an abhorrent and an evil act.

2. If they are resisting and fighting for their freedom, then it's the noblest action possible in war.

"Jesus said He came into the world to save, not to kill"

I only wish the bible was very convincing in that regard Don, otherwise we would not have the massacres going on weekly today in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, etc.

Also, the media (being dominated by Jews who hate the truth and hate everything that is good) always lies about it. Did you know that only 6% of terrorism acts in the past decades can be attributed to Muslims? Unbelievable, I know. Even I thought it would be higher, seeing the breathless war cries the Jewish-controlled media has been airing. In fact, terrorist attacks carried out by Jews in the name of Judaism were 1% higher in number. Check it out. This is from the FBI's data.

"Or should we discuss Libya? "

LOL, oh come on, Qaddafi? He's despised around the Islamic world, for decades. As for Iran-Iraq and Saddam, all that is nothing compared to the death tool of the world wars, which were all waged by Christians. The death toll of WW1 alone (including the indirect deaths) is 60 million. But that stuff is inevitable, Don. Humans will always kill each other.

"Suicide bombers in New York killing over three thousand innocents."

And hundreds of thousands killed by the Christians in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, and elsewhere. If you check the track record of Christians and their actions, you will always (no exception) find that Christians kill much, much more than Muslims. Even the peaceful European and Scandinavian countries rushed to invade and oppress Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.

What's worse is that those are harder to justify in Christianity, what with "love your enemy" and all.

It's inevitable. You hang around other Christians all the time, how often do they curse Bush and the US military? I'll wager the opposite: they love the troops and admire what they are doing in Islamic countries, am I right?

Check this out, tell me what you think:

[www.salon.com]
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 13, 2011 01:17AM
Sid, please, do not equate Christians with America. It just cannot be done. We, here in America, do not become
Christian just because we are born in this country. And I would have to say, in all honesty, America is not a Christian nation.

Getting back to suicide bombers: Do you mean that when a bomber goes into a market in Iraq, etc., that is a justified killing? And BTW, it is a sin for a Christian to kill themselves....no mattter what. We are the temple of God.

Let's go to the world trade center. Was that a justified killing/murder?

**Why do you hate Jews? Do you hate the Jew, Jesus?

What is this Pakisan stuff?
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 13, 2011 08:47AM
Sid writes,

Quote:
"Sid, what is your take on scuicide bombers?"

1. If they are targeting innocent civilians, it is an abhorrent and an evil act.

2. If they are resisting and fighting for their freedom, then it's the noblest action possible in war.




Suicide bombing is never used against military forces. It is used only to terrorize and demoralize civilian populations. There's nothing "noble" about it.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 13, 2011 07:23PM
Excellent point, Linc.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 13, 2011 07:27PM
Don wrote: From a previous post:"Suicide bombers in New York killing over three thousand innocents."

Sid's reply: And hundreds of thousands killed by the Christians in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, and elsewhere. If you check the track record of Christians and their actions, you will always (no exception) find that Christians kill much, much more than Muslims.

Sid, you are justifying the world trade center bombing because???????????
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 13, 2011 08:18PM
Linc:

Suicide bombings are a very common tactic in Afghanistan and Iraq against western occupation forces and puppet governments.



Don:

I'll await the rest of your posts. Tell me when you're done.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 13, 2011 08:29PM
Sid, that was it. WHY are you justifying the actions of the suicide bombers because....

That's like a kid saying, "well he hit me first..." That is not an argument nor a justification.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 14, 2011 02:32PM
Don:

But you didn't respond to some important parts of my post.

1. Why do Evangelicals support the terrorist state of Israel with such unholy fervor? Their war crimes abound, their deliberate targeting of children and women are well documented, their use of kids as human shields, their endless massacres (Deer Yasin, Qana 1, Qana 2, Bahr Al Baqar, Kfer Qasim, Jenin, etc.), is that the action of a nation/state chosen and exalted by God?

2. What's your opinion on Deuteronomy 13:6-9?

"WHY are you justifying the actions of the suicide bombers because.... "


First of all, where did I justify them?

Second, the total number of innocents killed by terrorist suicide bombings in the past 50 years is nothing but a tiny morsel compared to the numbers killed by Western armies in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Palestine, Pakistan, and elsewhere. You asked about Pakistan, just google it, along with the word 'drone'. The US military (with the blessing of Evangelicals) is slaughtering dozens of innocent civilians using unmanned aircraft, on a weekly basis.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 14, 2011 02:34PM
Don:

"Why do you hate Jews? Do you hate the Jew, Jesus? "

It never ceases to amaze me how much you insult Jesus in your religion, Don. You think he's God, then you say God has a mother, a son, was tortured, was a human who expelled waste (like all humans do), and now, he's a Jew? So your god is Jewish? Jews are a cursed nation, Don. There's a reason they have been persecuted by almost every society they lived in, even today. God cursed them for their past and present actions, which include corrupting scripture, murdering prophets (Jesus? Hello?), destroying societies (look at the filth Hollywood is spewing), and many other evil deeds.

Maybe that's one of the reasons Islam is so appealing to Christians; in Islam, God is much greater than that. Surah (chapter) 113 reads: "Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him."

You want to know why I despise Jews so much? I wrote a brief post for Linc. Here it is, tell me what you think:

[www.selectsmart.com]

I'm really interested in your opinion on that post of mine, because some of the issues I mentioned concern you as a Christian American, like the point about Jewish Hollywood corrupting the values of America.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 14, 2011 08:09PM
Sid, please don't call Amercia, Christian........it isn't!

One of the things Jesus preached is LOVE. Love your enemies which seems to be lacking in your religion. You have deep hatred for the Jews which I find is a shame.
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 14, 2011 10:18PM
BTW, sid, Jesus told the Samaritan woman, "salvation is from the Jews." Yikes!
Re: Don's and Sid's Discussion
April 14, 2011 11:01PM
Sid, what is your take on Jesus. Is he a prophet? As He claimed, God in the flesh? A charlatan? What? confused smiley
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