SelectSmart.com®
Before you decide
Over 20,000 selectors

Share
Write and post your long form essays and articles on The SelectSmart.com Post.
Is your name welcomed below? Then you can post here. Otherwise, click "Log In" to post!
Welcome! » Log In » Create A New Profile

I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19

Posted by Hornswoggle 
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 28, 2014 10:02PM
Navy2711 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How did we get from Nuforc presenting a post which
> they think is silly, and openly labeling it as
> such, to the whole website being unreliable?

As I think I believe I pointed out earlier, NUFORC appears to have included the "hoax" sighting in their total number of UFO sightings for January, but you might want to double check my math, Navy, just to be sure.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 28, 2014 11:22PM
I would take him up on that.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 29, 2014 12:05AM
Dick,

"As I think I believe I pointed out earlier, NUFORC appears to have included the "hoax" sighting in their total number of UFO sightings for January, but you might want to double check my math, Navy, just to be sure."


The title of the page is, "Monthly Report Index For 01/2014," not "sightings." Are you saying that, somewhere else on the site, they refer those reports as verified sightings, or give some other misleading impression?

http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/ndxe201401.html

By doing a text search for the word "hoax", you'll find that there are at least four reports labelled "hoax" or "possible hoax." They seem to be forthright in including hoaxes and possible hoaxes in their total number of reports for the month. Where's the "unreliable" part?

(Incidentally, I would prefer that NUFORC include hoax reports, instead of making it their policy to decide what is a hoax and not include those.)
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 29, 2014 01:01AM
Indy! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would take him up on that.


You're welcome to do just that. Anyone can verify their numbers as far as I know. I suggested Navy do it (i.e., verify my numbers) because I thought he'd be better equipped to do it than you or Ponderer. But check it out, by all means. I'd like to know just exactly what is included in their reported numbers and what isn't.



Navy2711 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dick,
>
> "As I think I believe I pointed out earlier,
> NUFORC appears to have included the "hoax"
> sighting in their total number of UFO sightings
> for January, but you might want to double check my
> math, Navy, just to be sure."
>
> The title of the page is, "Monthly Report Index
> For 01/2014," not "sightings." Are you saying
> that, somewhere else on the site, they refer
> those reports as verified sightings, or give some
> other misleading impression?


The "reports" ARE the "sightings" as far as I can tell. I am not aware that NUFORC has a "verified" sightings total. The only total I find on their website is a total for monthly reported sightings. All I find is a monthly January total to date of 491 reported sightings. If you can give me the location of a "verified" total, I'll be happy to check it out.

> [www.nuforc.org]
>
> By doing a text search for the word "hoax", you'll
> find that there are at least four reports labelled
> "hoax" or "possible hoax." They seem to be
> forthright in including hoaxes and possible hoaxes
> in their total number of reports for the month.
> Where's the "unreliable" part?


How does the website's labeling 4 out of 491 reported sightings as hoaxes increase the website's reliability? I don't follow you.

For all you know 99% or even all of those reports could be hoaxes. Isn't that true? You seem to be merely taking the website's word that the other 487 reported sightings in January were sincere. On what basis do you do this?

For all I know all the reports come from anonymous individuals. Do you know anything more about that? If not, then how do we know that someone connected to the website itself isn't generating many of the reports?

It's astounding to me that anyone would consider this kind of website to be a reliable source of information. If I knew how to build a website I'm fairly confident that I could fill that website myself with the same kind of anonymous reports I see on this website.


> (Incidentally, I would prefer that NUFORC include
> hoax reports, instead of making it their policy to
> decide what is a hoax and not include those.)


Actually, they say that their policy IS to omit obvious hoaxes, not to include them. From the website: "Obvious hoaxes have been omitted, however most reports have been posted exactly as received in the author's own words." [www.nuforc.org]
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 29, 2014 01:07AM
Two things that are as reliable as death and taxes...

When Pinocchio lies... his nose grows longer.

When Dick spins... his posts grow longer.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 29, 2014 01:38AM
That wasn't a very long post, especially since it was a reply to two posts. But given your unfortunate attention span, anything past 20 words must seem like "War And Peace" to you.

[Don't think that I didn't notice that you tried to change the subject, also. winking smiley Can't say that I blame you. You're probably better off that way.]
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 29, 2014 01:57AM
Dick,

I have some responses to your post, but in the interest of perhaps saving a lot of typing, I want to clear something up. Do you feel that there is a direct logical progression from the fact that NUFORC presented a report and labelled it as a hoax, to a conclusion that the entire website is unreliable?
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 29, 2014 02:58AM
No. I believe the website is unreliable for a number of reasons. This particular mistake (if mistake it is) is symptomatic of the site's unreliability not conclusive proof.

I have a question for you: Do you think that that website can be relied upon as substantive evidence with respect to the thesis that ETs have visited our atmosphere?
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 30, 2014 07:08AM
Dick,

"Do you think that that website can be relied upon as substantive evidence with respect to the thesis that ETs have visited our atmosphere? "

In regard the anectdotes on that site — If indeed NUFORC simply passes along stories that are submitted to them from anonymous sources, and does not follow up on either the sources or the story details themselves, then my answer is that I definitely do not regard those stories as substantive evidence. (I'm being particular in my word choice because I don't know what else the website presents.)

I find it inconsistent that Believers find value in UFO anectdotes, and I wonder what they think of anectdotal "evidence" from other belief systems that can present little or no empirical evidence, such as Christianity. A friend of mine recently had her uncle pass away. Another family member swears up and down that at the funeral she saw the uncle's spirit carried upward by two angels. Upon questioning, this family member claims that this experience should not be categorized as an ambiguous sensation, such as a dream, or a "spiritual feeling." She says it was an empirical observation, although she didn't use those words. She swears that she saw the uncle and the angels the same as she sees a book resting on a table. Untold stories such as this can be found among the Christian community, and other religions. Do these stories carry weight?
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
February 05, 2014 12:32AM
This was just posted. It's about an incident that happened on 7/24/91. Very believable.

The Hubbardsville NY Encounter [www.youtube.com]
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
February 05, 2014 07:43AM
People assign varying amounts of credibility to varying types of anecdotal evidence. The testimony of a confused, emotionally-compromised preteen girl who misses her dead uncle and wishes she could see him one last time is not the same as a professional pilot or astronaut who are on the job and trained to observe in a professional, dispassionate manner. We can all agree the little girl who "saw" her dead uncle also becomes the focal point of attention for the family - the star "witness" so to speak - which gives her ego a stroke and elevates her position amongst her family, even if it is under obviously false pretenses. The pilot or the astronaut - OTOH - has absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose by reporting something unidentifiable in the sky. We therefore must assume they are more likely to be truthful than pulling some type of hoax or looking for unwarranted attention like the child in question. One is an adult account - one is a child's fantasy. You can decide which is which.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
February 05, 2014 08:19AM
Speaking of observing carefully — nowhere did I state that this family member is a child. In fact, she's 70 years old. Nor is there any evidence in the story that she's confused, emotionally compromised, or wished to gain attention, or that the rest of the family is the religious sort that would give "status" to her for telling a story about the angels. The reality of the situation was that the family member did not become the "center of attention," and in fact the family only talks about it in hushed whispers while rolling their eyes.

Furthermore, there must certainly be plenty of pilots (not a large percentage, but a large number over the course of time) who would get an ego boost from being the guy who saw a UFO.

But all that is neither here nor there because, as I said, there must be countless eyewitness observations of a religious nature. Surely there are plenty of instances of pilots, police officers or whatever other professions are trained to observe professionally and dispassionately, who had a religious experience such as seeing an angel. Do those observations count for anything?
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
February 05, 2014 10:29AM
Speaking of observing carefully - nowhere did I use the words "status" or the term "center of attention" in my post, so using quote marks would be highly inappropriate (if not outright dishonest... eye rolling smiley) when discussing the contents of my post. And if I were mistaken to assume the person in question were a child, it obviously doesn't make any difference to the point being made since she is instead a 70-yr-old who's emotionally compromised by her uncle's death. This is a person who's opinion and ghost account does not even rate the respect of her own family - who roll their eyes when she tells the story (according to you). So why should we believe a word she says? We're back to square one... do you give more weight to the senile old lady who's family is laughing behind her back - or the trained professional standing up for a truth that could very well get him fired?

Do religious "observations" count for anything? Sure - if there were some that sounded the least bit credible. Can you provide any? Hornsy has provided plenty of credible testimony for UFO events. I have provided highly credible astronaut testimony. On the religious side, you have provided Grandma Hysterical's hallucination. Again - square one - we have credible testimony and we have the old lady. Who's word is more likely to stand up in a court of law?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 10:30AM by Indy!.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
February 05, 2014 03:04PM
Indy,


And if I were mistaken to assume the person in question were a child, it obviously doesn't make any difference to the point being made since she is instead a 70-yr-old who's emotionally compromised by her uncle's death.


I realize you're probably just messing with your old pal Navy, but just in case you're not : There is no indication in the story that the family member is distraught at all. (Unless you think that seeing angels is evidence of emotion-driven hallucination, and seeing UFO's is not. winking smiley ) There is also no evidence in the story that the deceased is her uncle. If I remember correctly, the deceased is her brother in law. Frankly, Indy, these repeated assumptions of yours come as no surprise to me.

"This is a person who's opinion and ghost account does not even rate the respect of her own family - who roll their eyes when she tells the story (according to you). So why should we believe a word she says?"


That's an interesting criteria for deciding if someone is credible — whether or not they rate the respect of their family. eye rolling smiley

Do religious "observations" count for anything? Sure - if there were some that sounded the least bit credible. Can you provide any?


Well now we're getting somewhere. If someone that you feel is credible (you know, like someone who flies planes and has the respect of their family) tells you that they saw an angel, what does that mean to you? Does that make the existence of angels more probable in your eyes?
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
February 05, 2014 08:05PM
Navy2711 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I realize you're probably just messing with your
> old pal Navy, but just in case you're not : There
> is no indication in the story that the family
> member is distraught at all. (Unless you think
> that seeing angels is evidence of emotion-driven
> hallucination, and seeing UFO's is not. winking smiley )
> There is also no evidence in the story that the
> deceased is her uncle. If I remember correctly,
> the deceased is her brother in law. Frankly,
> Indy, these repeated assumptions of yours come as
> no surprise to me.

Navy - you used the term "uncle" 3 times to describe the deceased person. So if I am not to use that term to describe the dead guy - which other term would you rather I presume to use? And if you can't remember the actual relationship ("If I remember correctly"winking smiley - then you are merely guessing he's the brother in law as well.

And again - the point is moot. The woman was at the funeral. She cares about dead guy enough to show up to see him off - obviously she is affected by his death.


> "This is a person who's opinion and ghost account
> does not even rate the respect of her own family -
> who roll their eyes when she tells the story
> (according to you). So why should we believe a
> word she says?"
>
> That's an interesting criteria for deciding if
> someone is credible — whether or not they rate
> the respect of their family. eye rolling smiley


The term is "character witness" - look it up.


> Do religious "observations" count for anything?
> Sure - if there were some that sounded the least
> bit credible. Can you provide any?
>
> Well now we're getting somewhere. If someone that
> you feel is credible (you know, like someone who
> flies planes and has the respect of their family)
> tells you that they saw an angel, what does that
> mean to you? Does that make the existence of
> angels more probable in your eyes?


I'll let you know if it ever happens. In the meantime, you might bolster your case by providing testimony from someone other than Grandma Hysterical.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login



Cookies Consent Policy & Privacy Statement. All Rights Reserved. SelectSmart® is a registered trademark. | Contact SelectSmart.com | Advertise on SelectSmart.com | This site is for sale!