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I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19

Posted by Hornswoggle 
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
November 25, 2013 04:12PM
A skeptic takes a look at the 1976 Tehran UFO incident:

Classified Documents:

First, the classified "Now You See It, Now You Don't" document. As mentioned, this was a narrative, told as a dramatic story, and was hardly in the nature of an official government document. Yet it's often waved by the UFOlogists as compelling evidence. It was actually an editorial in the typed, mimeographed newsletter of the United States Air Force Security Services quarterly MIJI newsletter (MIJI standing for meaconing, intrusion, jamming, and interference). Because this service requires a security clearance, their newsletter is protected as well. There is nothing especially interesting about the actual article; it's just a dramatized retelling of the same information in Col. Mooy's memo, offered in the newsletter as a curious editorial on the subject of jamming and interference.


The Mother Ship:

Second was the mother ship, that persistent light in the sky that prompted the phone calls, aroused Yousefi's curiosity, and led the pilots on their merry chase across the skies. We don't know what this was. Journalist Philip Klass suggested that it was the planet Jupiter, an explanation echoed by aerospace researcher James Oberg. Many UFOlogists have dismissed this explanation saying that Jupiter's direction in the sky was 90° wrong, but I found two reasons to give this suggestion some credence. First, the direction is not wrong. The F-4s were scrambled to northern Tehran, not to the light. Once they arrived, they saw the light just where Jupiter would have been. Second, Yousefi and the telephone witnesses all described the light as similar to a star but much brighter. Considering the fact that Jupiter was in the sky, my own conclusion is that it's almost certain that Jupiter was responsible for some percentage of what was reported that night, though not necessarily everything.

Jamming & Electronics Failure:

Third was the apparently successful jamming of communications and radar equipment, that one would think should have concerned the Americans and the Iranians equally. In 1978, Klass dug deeper into this. He was not able to get any information from any Iranian sources, but he did track down several American civilian contractors from Westinghouse and McDonnell Douglas who were involved in the incident. The Westinghouse tech at Shahrokhi confirmed that only the second F-4 was reported to have experienced any electrical problems during the flight; the first F-4 was never sent in for maintenance. The McDonnell Douglas tech at Shahrokhi noted that the second F-4 had a long history of intermittent electrical outages that the IIAF had never been able to fix. He was personally called in to adjust that F-4's radar about a month after the event. Both techs stated that the Shahrokhi base was notorious for low quality work and poor record keeping.

So we have reason to expect that Jafari's F-4 would have had electrical problems regardless of whether he was under attack by a UFO or not, and we have conflicting stories about whether Nazeri's F-4 had any problems at all or not. Only Jafari was present at the official debriefing; Nazeri never made any known official report until he had moved to the United States and appeared on the Sightings TV show.

Radar Lock:

Fourth is the compelling radar lock obtained by Jafari's backseat weapons officer. Surely there had to be something up there. Maybe there was; most of what these pilots did was to intercept enemy MiG-25 fighters on surveillance missions, whether Jupiter was in the sky or not. But there were also two other possibilities. Note that Jafari's radar was known to be defective, or at least in need of adjustment. The same McDonnell Douglas supervisor noted that the weapons officer "could have been in manual track or something like that and not really realized it." Whichever of the three possibilities was true, it's not necessarily a fact that a radar lock meant something was there. Maybe there was; maybe there wasn't.

UFO "Missiles":

Fifth were the bright objects that Jafari reported came at him, and that shot straight down into the ground. Twice a year, the Earth's orbit takes us through the debris trail left by Halley's Comet, causing meteor showers. We also pass through various other clouds and trails at the same time each year. In his 1984 book Meteor Showers: A Descriptive Catalog, astronomer Gary Kronk studied years of annual meteor data up through 1980. On September 19, we are at or near the maximums of two minor annual showers, the Gamma Piscids (PIE-sids) and Southern Piscids, and at the tail end of a third shower, the Eta Draconids. There was more than enough expected meteor activity to account for all of the reports of falling lights and rapidly moving bright objects. Some UFOlogists have attempted to connect the Tehran sighting with several other sightings of speeding bright lights that same night across the Meditteranean, suggesting that the "mother ship" must have been speeding all around the region. Since there were meteors falling worldwide that night, such sightings are exactly what we should expect to see, mother ships or not.

Klass noted several cases where experienced night pilots have taken unnecessary evasive maneuvers to avoid meteors that they mistook for aircraft. Another telling detail that Klass learned from the American technicians is that the Shahrokhi pilots never flew at night; that these two night sorties chasing the UFO were the only known night flights during the whole time the technicians were stationed there. According to Col. Mooy's report, the pilots reported that landing at Mehrabad was difficult because they were having trouble adjusting their night visibility.


Beeper:

Sixth was the beeping transponder located by Jafari and the helicopter crew the next day, apparent physical evidence of intelligent technology. And so it probably was. Col. Mooy noted that the beeping transponder appeared to be from an American C-141. These large transport aircraft carried such transponders designed to be released in the event of a crash, but they'd been having problems with the beepers being ejected simply by turbulence over the mountains just north of Tehran.

Once we look at all the story's elements without the presumption of an alien spaceship, the only thing unusual about the Tehran 1976 UFO case is that planes were chasing celestial objects and had equipment failures. There have been many cases where planes had equipment failures, and there have been many cases where planes misidentified celestial objects. Once in a while, both will happen on the same flight.

A common way for UFOlogists to analyze stories such as this one is to use a process of elimination to show that it wasn't a star, it wasn't Jupiter, it wasn't a meteor or an aircraft, therefore we're left with the only thing it could have been: an alien spacecraft. The problem with this reasoning is that it's exactly as valid as using a process of elimination to show the only thing it could have been was the fiery chariot of Elijah.

Neither, in fact, is a process of elimination the proper way to examine such stories. We want to know what it is, not what it isn't. And, in this case, we don't have enough information to know what it is. So even if any of the six elements is not otherwise explained, all we're left with is "I don't know", not "I do know and it was an alien spaceship." What was the Tehran 1976 UFO? I don't know, but there's insufficient evidence to convince me to get excited about it.

[skeptoid.com]
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
November 28, 2013 08:35AM
We don't know what this was. Journalist Philip Klass suggested that it was the planet Jupiter, an explanation echoed by aerospace researcher James Oberg.

That's just insulting. I didn't read any further.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
November 28, 2013 06:31PM
Insulting? Ha! I thought you said you'd spent "years" studying ufo phenomena? How can that be true if you don't even know that planets like Jupiter and Venus account for many UFO sightings?

For instance:

If you see a shiny object in the night sky hovering just above the southeast horizon, don't worry.

It's just Jupiter.

The Clallam County Sheriff's Office responded to a call early Thursday morning from a Blue Mountain Road resident who was concerned about an unidentified flying object spotted on the horizon, said Undersheriff Ron Peregrin.

“We took a look at it through our binoculars,” he said, and determined that it was Jupiter, the largest plant in the solar system.

Peregrin said dispatchers received several more calls that morning from people mistaking Jupiter for a UFO, although he didn't know how many.


[www.peninsuladailynews.com]

During the Condon study, there was an interesting report of a daylight disc event. Dr. Craig described this event in his book:

The person who originally reported the UFO said it had caused his 'Magnetic UFO detector' to sound the alarm, and when he went outside to look, sure enough, there was a UFO straight overhead. He had pointed out this distant bright object, high in the sky, when the staff team arrived about an hour later....Mary Lou phoned the UFO officer at one of Air Force bases in the region to learn if he had knowledge of an unidentified object then in the sky. She was most indignant when it was suggested to her that they were 'probably chasing Venus,' and she commented upon the nerve of anyone who would suggest a PH.D. scientists would be chasing a planet without recognizing it...Mary Lou's indignation must have mellowed considerably the next day when he arrived at the office with figures which showed the light had moved westward at 15 degrees per hour, and expressed the suspicion that the observed light must have been an astronomical object...The coordinates of Venus matched those of the observed bright light...While this may have left some staff members slightly embarrassed, it was a valuable lesson to those who were to conduct field investigations of UFO reports later. (Craig 38-39)

It is very interesting how these scientists could be fooled by such an event. It took a lot of careful calculations to reveal they were just observing Venus in daylight. How many "daylight discs" can be traced to Venus and would a UFOlogist understand it is possible that Venus can be seen in daylight? Venus, even in daylight, can be the source of a UFO report.

[home.comcast.net]


The Condon report listed several events related to Venus. One in particular stands out because Venus appeared to set off a “wave” of sightings that involved numerous experienced police officers, who are supposedly considered “reliable and credible” observers. The entire series of events transpired over several days and involved some of the most common issues associated with stars and planets being misperceived as UFOs:
1.A radar contact was attributed to the UFO. A pilot, with 4,000 hours of flying time, attempted to intercept the UFO with his Cessna. On the ground the policemen saw the aircraft fly past the UFO several times. When they directed the pilot towards the UFO, the pilot attempted to pursue it. From the ground, it appeared that the pilot flew under the UFO and ignored it. However, in the air the pilot was following the UFO. To him, it appeared to move away when he attempted to pursue it and then came back when he turned away.
2.Various shapes and sizes were given. “Football shaped light”, “Big as the moon”, “appeared to be a star”, “round”, “the shape of a giant four-leaf clover”, “A piece of floating tin foil”, “a yellow rectangle-shaped object”, “sphere shaped object approximately 25-feet in diameter”, etc. (Condon 370-373)
3.The objects always disappeared after sunrise
4.Police officers attempted to pursue the UFO in their vehicles on more than one occasion. In one instance, the police attempted a high-speed pursuit. According to the report:


It was a good distance in front of us, pulling away, so we turned around to come back to town. The object turned on us and followed. It gained on us and was going about 75 mph. After the object caught up with us, it pulled into the sky, emitting a beam of bluish light that illuminated the roadway. (Condon 373)

In all these case, the police officers and pilot were chasing the planets Venus and Jupiter, which had risen in the east and were very bright.

Dr. Craig explains some of the problems associated with chasing an object like Venus in a moving vehicle:


The apparent pursuit of moving vehicles, or flight from them, is characteristic of any distant object which is imagined to be close to the observer. Because of the object's great distance, it remains essentially the same direction from the observer as the observer moves. Because of the object's great distance, it remains essentially the same direction from the observer as the observer moves. Compared with trees or terrain nearby which change in direction as the observer moves past them, the object, retaining a constant direction, does seem to be moving the same speed and direction as any observer who thinks it no more distant than the reference terrain...It is a characteristic of this "pursuit" that the object stops when the observer stops, resumes its motion as the observer resumes motion, goes the opposite direction when the observer reverses direction, and travels at whatever speed the observer happens to travel. (Craig 47)



[home.comcast.net]
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
November 28, 2013 10:26PM
Insulting? Ha! I thought you said you'd spent "years" studying ufo phenomena? How can that be true if you don't even know that planets like Jupiter and Venus account for many UFO sightings? - Dick

I've stated right on this thread that planets are often mistaken for UFOs. I've read literally hundreds of reports, which is ongoing - I continue to read them. Most of them have non-alien explanations. So don't make me out to be an idiot.

"In all these case, the police officers and pilot were chasing the planets Venus and Jupiter, which had risen in the east and were very bright."

Or maybe they weren't. Since Venus and Jupiter are visible most of the year, most alien craft sightings in the night sky would be observed when either of those planets are visible.

These were experienced pilots (Tehran incident) who would be very familiar with bright planets like Venus and Jupiter because they're visible most of the year. Planets also wouldn't zoom by a plane, be tracked on radar, or cause electronic equipment to malfunction.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2013 10:32PM by Hornswoggle.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
November 29, 2013 11:29AM
Too bad you didn't read the skeptic's article. Most of your concerns were addressed there.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
December 11, 2013 11:46PM
Actually I don't have any "concerns", and nothing that I posted was actually addressed in your post. There are numerous well documented UFO sightings that have been corroborated by radar evidence.

A UFO witness breaks the silence [www.youtube.com]
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
December 12, 2013 06:00PM
Since you say you read less than two paragraphs of the skeptic's rebuttal, how do you know what the rebuttal adressed and what it didn't?
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
December 12, 2013 06:32PM
What do you make of the video (from yet another anonymous person naturally) that you just linked? Why should anyone give any credence to it?

How is it possible for any adult to be as gullible as you and Indy appear to be? I worry about you being taken advantage of by shysters and con artists who prey on the innocent and vulnerable.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
December 13, 2013 01:57AM
I went back and read that post.

I haven't reached any conclusions about the YouTube audio vid. I just posted it FYI.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
December 13, 2013 06:29AM
Dick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How is it possible for any adult to be as gullible
> as you and Indy appear to be? I worry about you
> being taken advantage of by shysters and con
> artists who prey on the innocent and vulnerable.


Who says we're innocent?
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 16, 2014 10:51AM
Sighting Report
Occurred : 1/1/2014 00:01 (Entered as : 1/1/2014 0:01)
Reported: 1/2/2014 4:58:26 PM 16:58
Posted: 1/10/2014
Location: Waxhaw, NC
Shape: Disk
Duration: Still going on

I witnessed an alien war over Waxhaw NC

MCP - Celebrating the New Year and thought I was just witnessing fireworks. I saw a lot of explosions in the sky, but instead of colorful geometric formations, I kept seeing huge fireballs followed by mushroom clouds. Apparently aliens were having a war in the atmosphere. 6-7 UFOs shaped like discs and piloted by Grays were shooting lasers and neutron missiles at each other at an altitude of 95,000 feet. It looked like the UFOs were blowing up when they were hit, but their shields protected them. I saw one Gray eject from his spacecraft after several direct hits, but he parachuted into another craft then took off back into deep space. The worst part was getting abducted. A UFO landed in my driveway and the pilot got out and asked for several wooden boxes of uranium. I told him I had some in my basement, and when he went and looked I snuck onto his spaceship and started going through his things. He came back and caught me. Things got really out of hand at this point and I'm too embarrassed to say what happened next.

[www.nuforc.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2014 10:51AM by Hornswoggle.
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 16, 2014 08:54PM
"The U.S. government hasn't maintained secrecy regarding UFOs. It's been leaking out all over the place. But the way it's been handled is denial, by denying the truth of the documents that have been leaked, by attempting to show them as fraudulent, as bogus. There has been a very large disinformation and misinformation effort around this whole area. And one must wonder, how better to hide something out in the open than just to say, 'It isn't there. You're deceiving yourself if you think this is true.' And yet there it is right in front of you. So it's a disinformation effort that's concerning here, not the fact that they've been kept secret. They haven't kept it. It's been getting out into the public for fifty years or more."

- Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut


UFOs, Aliens, and the Question of Contact [www.youtube.com]
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 16, 2014 09:38PM
Beyond what I've already acknowledged as their expertise on judging whether or not a flying object is moving in manner allowable by current human technological standards, why give weight to what astronauts say? What sort of access to government-kept secrets do astronauts have? How is it that they know the things they say?

Also, are there any current day astronauts who also claim to be believers, and have inside information on government-kept secrets about UFO's and ET?
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 16, 2014 09:45PM
"At this time, the reports of incidents convince us that there is something going on that must have immediate attention... Sightings of unexplained objects at great altitudes and travelling at high speeds in the vicinity of major U.S. defense installations are of such nature that they are not attributable to natural phenomena or known types of aerial vehicles."

- from a 1952 memo from the Director of Scientific Intelligence for the CIA to the director of the agency, Walter Bedell Smith
Re: I saw 2 UFOs about midnight PST 9/18-9/19
January 16, 2014 09:51PM
Also, are there any current day astronauts who also claim to be believers, and have inside information on government-kept secrets about UFO's and ET?

Why would statements by current astronauts be any more believable to you than statements by retired astronauts?

The problem with obtaining information about UFOs from active duty astronauts and military personnel is that there's more at stake personally to them. That's why almost all of the information about UFOs is coming from retired astronauts and military personnel.
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