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Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay

Posted by Anonymous User 
Anonymous User
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 01, 2012 10:39PM
pb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curt Anderson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Born Againers in particilular like to imagine
> that
> > they are a persecuted class.
>
> In some places in the world they unquestionably
> are.
>
> > They like to
> > imagine they are a virtuous minority fighting a
> > world of secular evil doers.
>
> Really?
>
> Define 'they.'

Cripes. How short is your attention span? I defined they in my previous sentence.
>
> > But it's baloney.
> > Nobody is denying them the right to serve
> openly
> > in the military. Nobody is telling them they
> > can't marry.
>
> Not always.
Riiiiiiiiiight. Which Christian was denied the right to marry or serve in the military because of their beliefs?

>
> > Some of these Fundies are under
> > the misapprehension that THEIR rights are being
> > trampled upon when THEY are curtailed from
> > violating or impinging on the rights of others.
>
> Name five!

Why five? Because you can think of four off hand yourself.
1. They don't want gays to marry.
2. They want to post the Ten Commandments in schools.
3. They want teachers to lead classrooms in prayer.
4. They want to "Intelligent Design" taught in school.
5. They don't want sex education as part of school curriculum.



>
> You've just created a strawman, there, Curt.

BS!
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 01, 2012 11:23PM
Quote

> > Some of these Fundies are under
> > the misapprehension that THEIR rights are being
> > trampled upon when THEY are curtailed from
> > violating or impinging on the rights of others.
>
> Name five!

Why five? Because you can think of four off hand yourself.
1. They don't want gays to marry.
2. They want to post the Ten Commandments in schools.
3. They want teachers to lead classrooms in prayer.
4. They want to "Intelligent Design" taught in school.
5. They don't want sex education as part of school curriculum.


6. They want to de-fund Planned Parenthood
7. They want to restrict access to abortion
8. They want to restrict access to birth control
9. They want to make pornography illegal again
10. They want Christian symbols on government property, money and offical documents as a way to declare that "the US was founded on the Christian religion.

And if we don't give in to Born-Again bullying we are "persecuting" them.
Jun
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 05:59AM
Being brought up in a conservative and heteronormative Asian society/family, I used to be extremely insecure and fearful about my sexuality and would always repeat the mantra that I'm 101% straight, and like ONLY girls period. Repeat that enough times and even you yourself would start believing in that regardless of reality; and one day you'll look back at and regret those wasted years and ask yourself why. I've got questioned and warned by my mom many times previously if I'm gay, and got sternly told off for being sissy, especially since I've been caught acting or even dressing in a feminine way time and time again which annoyed them and repeating their nonsensical "boys should be boys mantra" (which I've stupidly bought for the longest time), and I'd always be rather nervous and reacted in an overcompensating way shouting "no way!" with a macho-frown in the face and try to hide it for awhile (to learn to instinctively deny it, not just to others, but to myself). In this sense, I've always been an insecure homophobe myself, even though I do not hate; I do fear -- especially of what others may think of me.

That insecurity was also stemming from being abused and bullied while I was in primary school, probably as a result of one boy whom I liked found out and told everyone; and perhaps coupled with my demeanor (at the time when I didn't know better to hide it). But truth is, when it comes to girls, what I mainly feel always seems to be simply a deep sense of envy and jealousy towards the way they look, and especially their freedom to dress and act and express in the way they are (w/o being called a faggot); while I persistently felt disgusted/shameful by the way I am and am forced and restrict to be, and especially of my physical form as disfiguring puberty took hold. And as with guys, (even though I've once felt intensely wanting to kiss one of my boyish looking male supervisor, or my secret and silent infatuation towards a couple of Chinese male actors and singers in the past) I just simply do not entertain that thought for fear and in denial, even though I've also been caught previously glancing at friend and got confronted because of it on several occasions even when I was rather discrete.

But the question is: why SHOULD people be made to feel self-disgust, judged, rejected or a worthless faggot outcast, when there's absolutely nothing wrong about it nor is it a perversion in anyway? We don't CHOOSE how our brain is orientated on which sex we are more attracted to or desire to be with; while real dangerous disgusting beastly idiots who would beat up or bully another person, show perverted-physical aggression in any way, or engages in fist fights don't have to through any of these stigma and feeling of shame? My self-disgust and frustrations of my own physical misalignment with my mental "real-self", and coercion to live in a masculine way in all those years, have eventually evolved to became a disgust towards "stinky-thick-muscly-meat-headed-hairy-alpha-masculinity" in general. Why should some of us have to go through all these simply for being who we are?

I KNOW that I'm NOT really gay and I never really had anything anything against it other than my immense fear of being identified as one (being the homophobe that I was). Its simply just that I am born with this physical birth defect, and psychologically I've always been a heterosexual girl/woman in-spite of the physical body which I'm born with. And honestly, I now don't give a damn anymore. WHY SHOULD I BE ASHAMED FOR SIMPLY EXPRESSING MYSELF AS HOW I AM. Judge all you like, and people who calls me a faggot like Tony can go fk themselves! Being a trans, I may not share the exact same experiences with gay people, and since I've lead pretty much a solitude life in terms of love, I can definitively empathize with them.

And as what my signature below states: "WHY SHOULD I RESPECT YOUR STUPID RELIGION WHEN YOUR STUPIDSTITION DOES NOT RESPECT MY EXISTENCE?"

I have always been alone until now that I've finally found myself. I blame society for all these confusion, loneliness, depression of self-hate, shame and disgust. Some may say that mother nature is the one at fault, but like how we can't blame gravity for falling down -- I personally do not believe nature can really be "blamed" for anything, for when it comes to biological matters, diversity is simply its character. I believe society is mainly to be blamed, or rather, to accurately identify/target it as the real source of the "problem", of our suffering and to justifiably criticize it as harshly as it judges us trans-people. For it wouldn't have been so difficult, tedious and painful if not for society's severe intolerance towards anything "different" (even when advance medical treatements/options now exists to help trans-people rectify or cope with our physical birth defect) -- aggressively perverting everyone into narrow artificial categories and man-made molds. While harshly prosecuting anyone who deviates from their heteronormative imposition. Further, it is sensible and productive to target society for "blame", since society can be changed. Nature, on the other hand can not.

Hopefully, one day people and society can GROW UP! and learn to mind their own fking business, and stop being so judgmental and self-righteous about who or what other people love, or which gender a person identifies him/herself as and how people wishes to express themselves and live, when it doesn't really affect them nor does it harm anyone else. Hopefully some day, this flawed conservative perversion against human diversity and nature known as the heteronormative societal structure would finally be eroded and demolished.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

Sam
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 06:11AM
I really hope so, too, Juni. I also hope you can find some peace of mind someday about it if it doesn't happen as quickly as we hope. Your voice is being heard in the Cloud and helping to change things so keep being brave and strong. I love the idea that author of My Two Moms Zach Wahl? has called Out for Dinner where homophobes and LGBT folks have a get together with the hopes that it's harder to hate/fear people once you get to know them rather than just reacting to stereotypes and misinformation along with the fear of the unknown which can feel threatening to some.
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 08:32AM
Jun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And as what my signature below states: "WHY SHOULD
> I RESPECT YOUR STUPID RELIGION WHEN YOUR
> STUPIDSTITION DOES NOT RESPECT MY EXISTENCE?"

How does my stupidstition not respect your existence?
Jun
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 10:11AM
Calling it a sin for starters; and with people judging transgenders as wicked and sick and are going against your alpha-male-God for identifying ourselves as the gender opposite to which our physical-gender is, etc etc. There are too many coming from these religious bigots to be listed from just personal encounters alone. Muslims tends to be a whole lot worse with the kind of nasty things which they say about us.
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 11:05AM
Calling your existence a sin? Don't think so.
Jun
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 11:23AM
Living in this hetronormative society as a trans-woman can be likened to being forced to wear burqa, and such, in an Islamic country. Anyone daring to deviate from what dictated and prescribed as "normal" will be harshly prosecuted and ostracized.

G: My "existence" involves me living as my true self; as corresponding to my mental-gender, even if it do not correspond to my physical gender. Being a woman is a part of me; and many of these bigots are trying to deny people like me this basic right to exist as who we are (using their supidstitions as their lame invalid excuse and for justifications).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

Jun
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 11:41AM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really hope so, too, Juni. I also hope you can
> find some peace of mind someday about it if it
> doesn't happen as quickly as we hope.

Thanks smiling smiley Taking it one step at a time Sam. And still many hurdler to be overcome; especially on the "family" front.
pb
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 05:48PM
Why five? Because you can think of four off hand yourself.
1. They don't want gays to marry.
2. They want to post the Ten Commandments in schools.
3. They want teachers to lead classrooms in prayer.
4. They want to "Intelligent Design" taught in school.
5. They don't want sex education as part of school curriculum.


No. Name five fundies who fit your phobic description of fundies.

Oh, and 2 - 5 are strawmanizing.

The subject of each sentence is an exaggeration. This strike as being unusual for you, Curt. Normally you are in touch with reality. In this case there's a touch of the attitude that Nazis have about Jews and Kluxers have about blacks. What's that all about?
Anonymous User
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 06:08PM
Oh brother, pb. Did you major in sophistry? None of my examples are straw men. Each of them has happened, continues to happen and at least some of them are actually in news currently. Don't like my five? Mull over the linc's five example, and refute those.

How about you provide a few examples where fundies have ever been victimized by the alleged phobia you speak of?
pb
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 06:13PM
Curt Anderson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh brother, pb. Did you major in sophistry?
> None of my examples are straw men. Each of them
> has happened, continues to happen and at least
> some of them are actually in news currently.
> Don't like my five? Mull over the linc's five
> example, and refute those.

Hard as it will be to look at them, I'll look at linc's.

But, my point stands. Your practice of thinking that you are describing ALL fundies by the actions of a few is very KKK. And, I really do think you should experience some shame over it. Clearly, each of your statements describe some fundies. But, you must know that you are judging a whole class of people based on the views and actions of a minority.

And, as I said, I asked you to name five real people who fit your strawmanized opinion, not five things they believe that you disagree with. And, you can't. Can you?

> How about you provide a few examples where fundies
> have ever been victimized by the alleged phobia
> you speak of?

What phobia did I speak of?
pb
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 06:17PM
6. They want to de-fund Planned Parenthood
7. They want to restrict access to abortion
8. They want to restrict access to birth control
9. They want to make pornography illegal again
10. They want Christian symbols on government property, money and offical documents as a way to declare that "the US was founded on the Christian religion.


6 and 7 are political views that some fundies share. That you disagree doesn't make them inherently evil.

I don't agree that 8 is accurate. The subject of the sentence is, again, a problem.

As far as 9 is concerned, I believe that pornography has always been and still is illegal. Curt and linc, you read much child porn? Guess you two do want to legalize it?

10. Uh uh. Not true.
Anonymous User
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 06:32PM
pb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As far as 9 is concerned, I believe that
> pornography has always been and still is illegal.
> Curt and linc, you read much child porn? Guess
> you two do want to legalize it?

I don't know why you think anybody other than the feeble-minded would take you seriously or mistake you for being intellectually honest. Within minutes of your falsely accusing me of strawmanizing, you come up with that whopper about linc and me.
pb
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 06:36PM
Curt Anderson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pb Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > As far as 9 is concerned, I believe that
> > pornography has always been and still is
> illegal.
> > Curt and linc, you read much child porn? Guess
> > you two do want to legalize it?
>
> I don't know why you think anybody other than the
> feeble-minded would take you seriously or mistake
> you for being intellectually honest. Within
> minutes of your falsely accusing me of
> strawmanizing, you come up with that whopper about
> linc and me.

Curt,

Are you suggesting:

1. That porn is legal?
2. That only fundies want it to be illegal? (In fact, it is the keen agreement between feminists and fundies on this issue that has always fascinated me.)

I am certainly being intellectually honest on both of those points. I was illustrating the real point you were making if you really believe those two things.
Anonymous User
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 07:06PM
Pornography is legal.

Nobody said fundies were alone in their opposition, although I haven't heard any feminists complaining about it in recent years. in fact, some women's magazines seem to provide porn for their female readers. I see Cosmopolitan and others at the check out counter with all sorts of risque headlines on their covers.

Child porn is illegal and should be illegal for the same reason that sex with children is illegal. That is children can't provide a knowing and willing consent.
pb
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 08:27PM
Curt Anderson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pornography is legal.
>
> Nobody said fundies were alone in their
> opposition, although I haven't heard any feminists
> complaining about it in recent years. in fact,
> some women's magazines seem to provide porn for
> their female readers. I see Cosmopolitan and
> others at the check out counter with all sorts of
> risque headlines on their covers.
>
> Child porn is illegal and should be illegal for
> the same reason that sex with children is illegal.
> That is children can't provide a knowing and
> willing consent.

Curt,

I am aware that laws regarding pornography are written at the state level or even more locally than that. However, I personally know of no material that is classified as meeting the legal definition of pornography that is also classified as being legal. Maybe it can be in Oregon, But, it's not here.

More to the point, I find it both interesting and disturbing that linc'd identify as one of the particularly agregious offenses of the fundies that they'd hope to make pornography illegal again. And, I'll say that I wouldn't be surprised to find out that linc spends much of his time sitting in his basement in stained undies looking through licit and illicit smut.
Sam
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 08:33PM
Who hasn't perused porn? You, pb? Lmao, right....
pb
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 08:37PM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who hasn't perused porn? You, pb? Lmao, right....

Actual, official, illegal porn?

No. I don't think that I ever have.

------------------------------

"...this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth." -- the ONE, Billy Joe McAllister Day 2008
Re: Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay
May 02, 2012 09:54PM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who hasn't perused porn? You, pb? Lmao, right....

"Actual, official, illegal porn?

No. I don't think that I ever have."
-pb

Not the question, pb. Typical really though I suppose.

Sam, it was an act of purest optimism for you to have even asked him a direct question in the first place.

Valiant effort though. thumbs up

"Bush lied us into a war, Obama lied us into health care - which one are you more upset by?" -Jimmy Dore
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