Evidence for Evolution: Whale evolution

One strange creature that we find is the whale. Surprisingly whales are genetically far more similar to mammals than to fish even though they look like fish. Whales may look like fish on the outside, but they are far different on the inside, and are actually mammals.

Whales have hair, a trait found in mammals not fish. Whales give birth to live young and don't lay eggs like fish. They feed their young with breast-milk which is a mammal trait not seen in fish. Whales have smooth skin not fish scales. Whales move their tails up and down when swimming, a mammal trait. Fish move their tails side to side. Whales have pelvises just like mammals, and have a hand structure in their front fins unlike fish.

The below links show the fish and whale skeletons compared.




The most important feature of all is that whales have lungs instead of gills. This would be comparable to making a monkey with gills instead lungs. This monkey would live and eat up in the trees, but from time to time they will have to rush back in the water to breathe. Dolphins are also mammals that look like fish.

The reason for this is that millions of years ago, some land animals that lived in shallow water began adapting themselves more and more for water with fins and the like, until they could not live in the water any-more. This is why whales look like mammals dressed up like fish. The hippo a close relative of whales hints at the possible lifestyle of these ancestors.

In fact we find transitional fossils of land animals evolving into whales.


The above image shows the evolution of whales with more whale-like creatures in higher geological strata. This evolutionary series starts out in 50 million year old strata and becomes more and more whale-like as we approach 35 million year old strata. We find these fossils in Pakistan.


The above link shows the skeletons of the transitionals.

Notice how the front arms are becoming reduced as we go into higher strata. Also notice how the back legs disappear and the pelvis becomes small and distant from the spine. Indeed Dorudon has a transitional pelvis between that of a normal mammal and that of a whale.

Transitional Whale fossils
[www.youtube.com]
This two minute video shows how the nose of the mammal ancestors of the whale starts moving up the forehead to become the blow-hole of the whale as we look at more and more whale-like fossils.

Looking at the whale pelvis, we see that it is vestigial. It is tiny and just sitting separated from the spine in the whale. Lets take a closer look on this pelvis.


As you see, it still has the femur which is a leg bone. This is an astounding piece of evidence for evolution.

It is doubtful if this pelvis has any function at all, although it might have some minor function. It is vestigial because it has lost its former function (holding the legs solidly).

29+ evidences for evolution
Indeed in the above link, we find that some dolphin species still develop leg bugs in embryonic development. What evolution did was keep the leg buds from developing further into legs; in the dolphins. The embryonic evidence is screaming out who the ancestors of whales are.

Description of Atavisms
Atavisms and whales
The most astounding thing of all is that sometimes unlucky whales and dolphins will develop atavistic legs on their vestigial pelvises! Atavisms are traits formed from ancestral genes that were turned off, but through some mutation is turned back on in a descendent. Often these genes will allow something which started in embryonic development (leg buds) to continue to develop and not stop.


Everything about the whale screams of its origins. The fossil record shows the ancestry of the whale. Whales are strong evidence for the theory of evolution.

It's all just coincidence and speculation.

_________________________
"If things were simple word would have got around." ~~ Derrida

Yeah, or else why are there still monkeys around?

Henry M. Paulson Wrote:
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> It's all just coincidence and speculation.


Thanks for expressing your feelings about the subject. Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

Sam Wrote:
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> Yeah, or else why are there still monkeys around?


We are not talking about monkeys.

Here is a link that answers your question.
Why there are still monkeys

Lol!!

Sam Wrote:
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> Lol!!

If you have any arguments to make, please present them now.

Lmfao...I have no arguments to make. I'm glad you are here, though.

Distraff wrote: "Thanks for expressing your feelings about the subject. Do you have any evidence to support that claim?"

Yes, I have the Bible.

_________________________
"If things were simple word would have got around." ~~ Derrida

Henry,
I predict that Believer will be asking to "friend" you.

Henry M. Paulson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Distraff wrote: "Thanks for expressing your
> feelings about the subject. Do you have any
> evidence to support that claim?"
>
> Yes, I have the Bible.


What in the bible claims that the information about whale evolution in my post is just coincidence and speculation? In order to show that this is just coincidence and speculation, you will have to address the claims of my post directly.

Also, before you use the book of genesis as a source, you will need to show its validity.

distraff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Henry M. Paulson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Distraff wrote: "Thanks for expressing your
> > feelings about the subject. Do you have any
> > evidence to support that claim?"
> >
> > Yes, I have the Bible.
>
>
> What in the bible claims that the information
> about whale evolution in my post is just
> coincidence and speculation?

The Bible indicates that God created everything in much the same way that we see them today. "Everything" includes whales.

> In order to show
> that this is just coincidence and speculation, you
> will have to address the claims of my post
> directly.

No, I won't have to address that. All I have to do is to show that a claim which is incompatible with your claim is true and I will have thereby shown your claim to be false since two contrasting claims cannot both be true.

> Also, before you use the book of genesis as a
> source, you will need to show its validity.

I believe the Bible to be the word of an omnipotent, omniscient God.

Have you read the Bible cover to cover? Have you asked Jesus to come into your life? Why are you so afraid to give up your sinful lifestyle?

Repent today and forever live!

The choice is yours.

_________________________
"If things were simple word would have got around." ~~ Derrida

Henry M. Paulson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> distraff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Henry M. Paulson Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Distraff wrote: "Thanks for expressing your
> > > feelings about the subject. Do you have any
> > > evidence to support that claim?"
> > >
> > > Yes, I have the Bible.
> >
> >
> > What in the bible claims that the information
> > about whale evolution in my post is just
> > coincidence and speculation?
>
> The Bible indicates that God created everything in
> much the same way that we see them today.
> "Everything" includes whales.
>
> > In order to show
> > that this is just coincidence and speculation,
> you
> > will have to address the claims of my post
> > directly.
>
> No, I won't have to address that. All I have to do
> is to show that a claim which is incompatible with
> your claim is true and I will have thereby shown
> your claim to be false since two contrasting
> claims cannot both be true.
>
> > Also, before you use the book of genesis as a
> > source, you will need to show its validity.
>
> I believe the Bible to be the word of an
> omnipotent, omniscient God.
>
> Have you read the Bible cover to cover? Have you
> asked Jesus to come into your life? Why are you so
> afraid to give up your sinful lifestyle?
>
> Repent today and forever live!
>
> The choice is yours.

1: There is no reason to accept bronze-age Hebrew mythology is true with claims about talking snakes, turning water into blood, creating people from ribs, getting water by hitting a rock, etc, than to accept Greek mythology with its claims about people born from Gods' heads, people making thunder, love coming from a God shooting an arrow at you etc. These are all local superstitions that make extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence, actually without a scrap of evidence. Hebrew mythology is one out of thousands of local mythologies including Greek mythology, Aztec mythology, Roman mythology, Egyptian mythology, Chinese mythology, Native American mythology, etc.
2: The fact that you make a claim that contradicts mine does not prove mine false because you have not provided evidence for your claim while I have provided evidence for mine. So at this point, I am winning this debate.
3: Evolution may have been the way that the God of the bible made life.

"The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel vengeful and capricious... One only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."
— Thomas Jefferson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2012 04:40PM by distraff.

distraff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sam Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lol!!
>
> If you have any arguments to make, please present
> them now.

They don't.

As I have demonstrate again and again for over nine years, they BELIEVE in evolution in the same way a Creationist believes in creation.

I think distraff is talking about our side (yours and *mine and Believer's and Don's), pb, not sam's and ponderer's and islander's.



*For this thread, in order to be on your team, pb, I've decided to assume the role of an ignorant fundamentalist gay-bashing cracker.

_________________________
"If things were simple word would have got around." ~~ Derrida

"As I have demonstrate again and again for over nine years, they BELIEVE in evolution in the same way a Creationist believes in creation." -pb

And as you have been corrected innumerable times, you only BELIEVE that. You have in no way ever demonstrated it. The differences have been pointed out to you voluminously. But since the universe must conform to your centering of it, no one else's thoughts matter regarding what they believe. So what you believe we believe, we must needs believe. And for whatever reasons you believe we believe it. We are but specks in the universe you center.

Poor distraff! Don't despair that we are yanking your chain a bit. We are all bored with one another and fresh meat is fun. I actually do BELIEVE in evolution just as I BELIEVE in gravity and math.

Pb, Did you notice distraff's signature quote? I BELIEVE he was saying you BELIEVERS are ALL either fools (crazy stupid) or hypocrites (pretenders). Hmmm....

"The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel vengeful and capricious... One only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."
— Thomas Jefferson

distraff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1: There is no reason to accept bronze-age Hebrew
> mythology is true.

OK . . . and?

> 2: The fact that you make a claim that contradicts
> mine does not prove mine false because you have
> not provided evidence for your claim while I have
> provided evidence for mine.

I never said that my making a claim that is contradictory to your claim proves that your claim is false. I said only that two contrary claims cannot both be true, thus proving that I do not have to address your claim (or any other claim) directly in order to prove that the other claim is false.


> So at this point, I
> am winning this debate.

IYO.

> 3: Evolution may have been the way that the God of
> the bible made life.

Non sequitur.

> "The Christian god is a three headed monster;
> cruel vengeful and capricious... One only needs to
> look at the caliber of people who say they serve
> him. They are always of two classes: fools and
> hypocrites."
> — Thomas Jefferson

Ad hominem.

_________________________
"If things were simple word would have got around." ~~ Derrida

distraff... While there are some of us here who do accept the theory of evolution as basic reality (glad to meet ya), there are others here for whom no amount of evidence or explanation of facts will sway them from their belief that Evolution Must Be Wrong. They will simply dismiss any evidence as irrelevant. They will deny the facts, or more usually just ignore them. They will instead assemble what they think are iron-clad gotcha questions and present them with much aplomb, as if they somehow magically evaporate all facts and evidence supporting evolution into a poof of insubstantial smoke. Just wait till you get to see a real blockhead (commonly known as "pb" ) going in full gear on this subject.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2012 06:21PM by Ponderer.

Henry M. Paulson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> distraff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1: There is no reason to accept bronze-age
> Hebrew
> > mythology is true.
>
> OK . . . and?
>
> > 2: The fact that you make a claim that
> contradicts
> > mine does not prove mine false because you have
> > not provided evidence for your claim while I
> have
> > provided evidence for mine.
>
> I never said that my making a claim that is
> contradictory to your claim proves that your claim
> is false. I said only that two contrary claims
> cannot both be true, thus proving that I do not
> have to address your claim (or any other claim)
> directly in order to prove that the other claim is
> false.
>
>
> > So at this point, I
> > am winning this debate.
>
> IYO.
>
> > 3: Evolution may have been the way that the God
> of
> > the bible made life.
>
> Non sequitur.
>
> > "The Christian god is a three headed monster;
> > cruel vengeful and capricious... One only needs
> to
> > look at the caliber of people who say they
> serve
> > him. They are always of two classes: fools and
> > hypocrites."
> > — Thomas Jefferson
>
> Ad hominem.


Still waiting for the evidence that genesis is true.....