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Analyze - Mental Ressurection

Posted by Rudra-Kapalin 
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
December 27, 2011 12:46PM
Thanks for the great advice Sam...I will definitely stay and will try, i would rather say, I will, do everything to make things right... atleast i will give it my everything to make them the way they should be...I personally believe that religion can be misunderstood as philosophy but i still don't understand when it started working backwords...No religion can every answer a philosophical question. According to me, Religion is something that is used to make people believe in some things or questions which actually had a philosophical origin. When one can't answer it, religion is the easiest way to explain as it is believed that religion or religious beliefs are above questioning.

Nothing against religion....but shouldn't it be a personal choice like eating veg or non-veg....or chosing to smoke or not to...like chosing a shirt or a t-shirt...till it remains personal, its fine...but when guys in t-shirts start telling that wearing a shirt is something bad, I think its time to stop n think.

if u call it the word of God,then y don't v accept being merely homosapiens,v have limited 5 senses to interact with the world n if something like god exists,its simply in a different league n can't be understood due to limited mental abilities.like some animal who can't see colors,everything will be black n white for him/her.that won't mean colors don't exist.n there is no way he/she can know if colors exist or not.

If one is fighting in favor or against it, overall they both have hatred towards the other. I agree that religion is the core of hatred but then even Atheism is a faith believing that there is no god...It has also become a religion...What I think is if one follows, he shouldn't be stopped...n if one doesn't then he should not be forced to follow... There have been instances which still haunt Russia. Stalin and some other communists also committed unbelievable atrocities on the people in the name of theory of communism...The way to resolve these kinds of issues is not to ban or fighting to stop ban...These can only be resolved if one understands that ban or no ban, why does it matter? Religion is definitely bad but hating religion is equally bad...Freedom of thought does entitle one to believe or to not believe...but these should be personal issues..

When Copernicus said that Sun is centre of the solar system and earth goes around it, he was condemned and church proclaimed him mad...many other astronomers and scientists were considered mad...when they said earth is not flat, we know how the church reacted...Its the truth that matters in the end...and sooner or later, it will proof itself...the all beliefs will seem like the most foolish thoughts...This constant urge in humans to keep looking for what is true is what drives us. What is believed to be true is not what matters...What is actually true does matter...the explanations may come later but truth needs no proofs...
Sam
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
December 27, 2011 05:33PM
According to your philosophy then, no one should "correct" anyone else when they believe something is wrong? IOW, if your child comes home from school and says he's going to start sleeping in your bed with you from now on because someone told him a boogieman lives under his bed, you think he should be allowed to believe that and act accordingly, right? Really? Just live and let live, right? Galileo should have just kept his discoveries to himself, right? Religionists come to my door to preach their gospel at me. I should just allow them to not only believe the shite they preach but to practice what their religion dictates which includes coming to my door? Um, I think not. I think rational individuals have a responsibility to educate others who demonstrate they either don't know the definition of truth and/or don't behave in a manner consistent with that definition. While we may not know the whole truth and may never know the whole truth, that doesn't mean we don't know enough to "correct" those who are behind or who have been indoctrinated with information that has no foundation in truth.
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
December 27, 2011 06:19PM
I think u misunderstood me. The point is that it should be made sure that on what basis Right or Wrong, Truth or Lie, Correct or Incorrect has been decided. I am not saying that one should go against his/her own beliefs and understanding and submit to the other person. My point is that before deciding something to be Right or Wrong, we should check and make sure that on what basis these beliefs stand. Is it logical or not?

And when I say religion is a personal choice, it also implies that no one should submit to anyone's beliefs or thoughts on any basic. Religion is something that needs to be totally personal and doesn't involve anyone else. Parents might believe in something else and children might have different views. But instead of trying to make the other person believe in something which they don't want to believe, its better that we respect each other's views as personal viewpoints and not as a common ground of thought that needs to be followed anyone else apart from the believer himself.

Regards,
Rudra

A nation's wealth doesn't lie in its Banks. It exists in its public schools...
Sam
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
December 27, 2011 06:31PM
I think you might be confusing personal spirituality with religion and, if so, I agree everyone's spirituality is their own business. So on what basis do you think we should decide something is right or wrong, truth or lie, correct or incorrect? You mentioned logic. I agree. The scientific method is the most logical, rational, reasonable way to determine truth so what is our responsibility when it comes to others, including our kids, who behave inconsistently with that method of discovering truth? Let them as long as they don't hurt themselves or others? What if it hurts me to hear my grandchild say something based in ignorance and indoctrination like using the N word to refer to black people or saying certain people are going to hell? Just let them? If we all have to believe in something in order to make sense of the world around us, doesn't it make more sense to use a methodology that EVERYONE agrees is a reliable way (logic) and not use a method that is based on superstition and ignorance (faith)? Do you believe there is a god, RK?
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
December 27, 2011 10:36PM
madmadmadonna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hinduism itself is a philosophy...not a religion
> per se.


I would say that if Hinduism advocates the worship of particular gods (and it does) who it claims to be the creators and governors of the universe then it's a religion . . . per se.

Hinduism, like most (all?) other religions, also subscribes to a particular philosophical outlook.

_________________________
"If things were simple word would have got around." ~~ Derrida
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 06, 2012 10:57AM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you might be confusing personal
> spirituality with religion and, if so, I agree
> everyone's spirituality is their own business. So
> on what basis do you think we should decide
> something is right or wrong, truth or lie, correct
> or incorrect? You mentioned logic. I agree. The
> scientific method is the most logical, rational,
> reasonable way to determine truth so what is our
> responsibility when it comes to others, including
> our kids, who behave inconsistently with that
> method of discovering truth? Let them as long as
> they don't hurt themselves or others? What if it
> hurts me to hear my grandchild say something
> based in ignorance and indoctrination like using
> the N word to refer to black people or saying
> certain people are going to hell? Just let them?
> If we all have to believe in something in order to
> make sense of the world around us, doesn't it make
> more sense to use a methodology that EVERYONE
> agrees is a reliable way (logic) and not use a
> method that is based on superstition and ignorance
> (faith)? Do you believe there is a god, RK?


You are right in sayng that when I think of religions, I take them as personal spiritual beliefs. About the question about our responsibilties towards our children, I would suggest that society and religion are two totally different things. When we talk of behaviour and children using wrong language, it is definitely our duty to make them understand why it is not correct. However, in making them understand it, I do not think religion comes into picture. Mutual respect towards other humans is something that needs to be instilled in every human but should not involve religion. Humanity is what needs to be taught, without bringing in things like 'God will be angry with u if u do such and such thing'.

Religion is something that forms a person's beliefs towards the, so called, all-mighty. If we start trying to find a methodology that we want everyone to believe in, it will lead to a total chaos. All the spiritual leaders have also clarified that such truths are not something that can be explained and everyone has to strive for it themselves. Spiritual leaders can definitely help one on the path to enlightenment, but they can't take one there till the end. There comes a point from where one has to carry on alone. And once he/she is there, he/she too knows that what they have achieved is something far beyond the realm of teaching.

Religions can tell one what is right or wrong according to the practices of their own beliefs but then there are many religions which will consider some practice of the other religion as being evil or not worthy of following. When I say religion is a personal choice, I mean that the belief one has in how he/she believes in God, that is a personal choice.
Social conduct and religious practices and beliefs are two very different things. It all depends on the society when we talk of right and wrong.

About your question of my believing in God, I can only say that 'I don't know' as I still don't know the definition of the God about which u r asking this but I definitely don't believe in any particular religion. I do believe that man himself is responsible of all his/her actions. If you can tell me what you consider God, I might be able to answer the question in the way u want it.

Peace!!! smiling smiley

A nation's wealth doesn't lie in its Banks. It exists in its public schools...
Sam
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 06, 2012 05:34PM
Never mind. When I ask someone if they believe in "God" or gods or a god and they ask me to clarify what I mean by God/gods/god, well, that's all I need to know. Thx and Peace to you, too!
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 06, 2012 09:24PM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Never mind. When I ask someone if they believe in
> "God" or gods or a god and they ask me to clarify
> what I mean by God/gods/god, well, that's all I
> need to know. Thx and Peace to you, too!


smiling smiley Isn't it like when one asks, "What is God?", the answer is "What is God"

Just the removal of a question mark makes it more of an answer than a question. And I think thats the best and the only answer available. "What is God" is an answer to everything one wants to know and ceases to be a question anymore...Thats the beauty of it...Its just perfect...Atleast that is how i look at it...

A nation's wealth doesn't lie in its Banks. It exists in its public schools...
Sam
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 06, 2012 09:48PM
Some people just NEED to believe in something they can call God so they will define it in a way that makes it easy for them to believe in it. I get that. Power to them. I really could not care less if people call what they believe in God. My beef is with the institution and practice of Religion. I don't think anyone has a right to smear their gods in my face. It's offensive and disgusting. Keep your God to yourself. That said, this place is for discussion of said God so why don't you just tell me what God means to you, RK? Do you worship it? Do you pray to it? Do you think it tells you things? Is it really just the silly name you have given to the feeling of Spirituality you get at certain times? Please do tell...
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 06, 2012 10:10PM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some people just NEED to believe in something they
> can call God so they will define it in a way that
> makes it easy for them to believe in it. I get
> that. Power to them. I really could not care less
> if people call what they believe in God. My beef
> is with the institution and practice of Religion.
> I don't think anyone has a right to smear their
> gods in my face. It's offensive and disgusting.
> Keep your God to yourself. That said, this place
> is for discussion of said God so why don't you
> just tell me what God means to you, RK? Do you
> worship it? Do you pray to it? Do you think it
> tells you things? Is it really just the silly name
> you have given to the feeling of Spirituality you
> get at certain times? Please do tell...


Okay...God to me is something that may exist or may not exist, as I do not really care. I worship nothing as per any kind of religious beliefs. have even gotten into trouble, with family members, as i do not visit religious places which have sprouted everywhere in my country, India. I see them as bussiness hubs selling dreams to those who are incapable of fulfil their own dreams as they don't believe in themselves. I do not hate or condemn them as in most cases its not their fault as they have seen this happening since birth and have taken these things for granted. This is something that has also kept most of India's potential untapped. parents insisted earlier but now they have come to understand.
Worship, Yes, I do worship. I worship my parents, teachers, the food we eat, the mud of the planet we live on, the water that gives us life, the air we breath in and many such other things like right now this reply is an act of worship for me...Worship is not something that i will close eyes an pray...its just the feeling of the importance of all these things that remains in my heart or mind or whatever u call it. For me WORSHIP is doing anything that is worthwhile.

Prayer, Yes, I pray to myself to find more strength to not let me go off the rightful path. Work is in itself an act of prayer. When a painter paints or a writer writes, they are in harmony with themselves. and that is all the prayer is about...when we do something so passionately that we forget our own existence, its prayer.

No one can tell us things. Our teachers and parents can help in showing the way but no one, and i mean it, NO ONE can tell what is what...its just like a 3d movie...without 3d glasses u can still see the movie and might not even know that its in 3d till someone gives u the 3d glasses...u can get 3d glasses from others but then again u will have to see n feel it for yourself...

In today's world god is more of a commercial commodity which brings in easy money...easiest and sure way to keep the money flowing...

You should also write more about yourself and your beliefs...i m curious to know...
Right now its 1:37 AM here, so will need to sleep(even though I don't want to, but then its also time to read some novels before i sleep)...will talk to u later...do write back...nice to meet u... Good Night...

Peace....

A nation's wealth doesn't lie in its Banks. It exists in its public schools...
Sam
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 06, 2012 10:46PM
I believe in all the same things you do except I don't call any of them gods.
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 07, 2012 08:39AM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe in all the same things you do except I
> don't call any of them gods.


smiling smiley my beliefs are everything to me...and i too hate calling any of these things god... I do not want to, but i do hate the word 'god' as i see it as a word that has caused maximum number of wars and killings have been justified in the name of, what they call, god.

A nation's wealth doesn't lie in its Banks. It exists in its public schools...
Sam
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 07, 2012 03:38PM
If you don't like calling anything god then when someone asks you if you believe in god, why do ask them to clarify what they mean? Why don't you just say no I don't believe in any gods but I do believe in blahblahblah? The word god has so much negative connotation, as you pointed out, and people use it to describe all sorts of things that have nothing to do with the strict definition of the word. If someone asked if you believe in Santa, would you reply "depends on what you mean by Santa", lol?
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 07, 2012 04:43PM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you don't like calling anything god then when
> someone asks you if you believe in god, why do ask
> them to clarify what they mean? Why don't you just
> say no I don't believe in any gods but I do
> believe in blahblahblah? The word god has so much
> negative connotation, as you pointed out, and
> people use it to describe all sorts of things that
> have nothing to do with the strict definition of
> the word. If someone asked if you believe in
> Santa, would you reply "depends on what you mean
> by Santa", lol?

Different religions and faith have different definitions of, what u call, God and that is why I asked u that question. There are no different definitions of santa. if u asked if i believe in christ or ram or mohammad or anyone else, I could've answered you. But non of them is God(some might be called Son of God or reincarnations or human manifestations). If I say I do not believe in God, that will mean I am an atheist and as Atheism is also another religion. I do not follow any religion so if i say i do not believe in God, I will be classified as an Aethiest, which to me is no different than being classified as a christian, muslim, hindu or anything else.

For some people God is the feeling of peace and harmony. For some it is self belief. and i do believe in some of these so was unable to answer the question which to u seemed straight forward but for me it was too complex and i needed more input to understand the question..

Peace!!!

A nation's wealth doesn't lie in its Banks. It exists in its public schools...
Sam
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 07, 2012 05:32PM
Atheism is not a religion. It's nothing but an absence of belief. That it is a religion is propaganda spread by religionists who weirdly try to discredit that view by categorizing it along with their own.
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 11, 2012 08:15PM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atheism is not a religion. It's nothing but an
> absence of belief. That it is a religion is
> propaganda spread by religionists who weirdly try
> to discredit that view by categorizing it along
> with their own.


I totally agree with u on that. i just wanted not to be categorized and it seems u understand that well by now.

I read this somewhere and had copied it to my precious word document that I use to keep record of all good things that I feel are really worth saving. you can say that the document is my most prized possession, the only treasure I have. Pasting those lines here...

In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.

You made me feel really happy by what u said about Aethism in your last post as it is after long long time that I have come across a person who has an open mind and is ready to stand his ground to take a discussion positively and to make sure that it doesn't remain just a discussion. u made it a healthy conversation where we can identify right and wrong by logically analysing every aspect of it...Thanks...

Peace!!!

A nation's wealth doesn't lie in its Banks. It exists in its public schools...
Sam
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 11, 2012 08:27PM
Wow, I think I might faint! Someone actually appreciates something I said here! Thx. RK! At the risk of losing that warm fuzzy feeling of being complimented, lol, what is the point of Tolerance? IOW, do you think we should respect/tolerate points of view that we believe are dangerous for everyone?
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 11, 2012 08:33PM
Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, I think I might faint! Someone actually
> appreciates something I said here! Thx. RK! At the
> risk of losing that warm fuzzy feeling of being
> complimented, lol, what is the point of Tolerance?
> IOW, do you think we should respect/tolerate
> points of view that we believe are dangerous for
> everyone?

By everyone, do u mean Humans or all living species??? or it includes more than that...

A nation's wealth doesn't lie in its Banks. It exists in its public schools...
Sam
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 11, 2012 09:37PM
Let's start with Humans...Do you agree that religion is at the root of so much death, destruction and divisiveness, i.e. war?
Re: Analyze - Mental Ressurection
January 11, 2012 10:33PM
I don't agree with that. Humans are at the root of so much death, destruction and divisiveness, i.e. war. For example, did religion cause 2 to 3 million people to be slaughtered in Vietnam? Nope. And you don't need to think too deeply to name other examples.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 10:37PM by PowerToThePeople.
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