Forum Index            

SelectSmart.com®
Before you decide
Over 20,000 selectors

Share

This isn't complicated. 2020 is a referendum on Trump.

The job of the Biden campaign is simple, and Trump is helping.
Is your name welcomed below? Then you can post here. Otherwise, click "Log In" to post!
Welcome! » Log In » Create A New Profile

Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians

Posted by Anonymous User 
Jun
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 09:26PM
pb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point is that if you justify homosexuality
> because it is rooted in the authentic love of the
> people who engage in it, you're arguing that love
> is a justification for an act. If love is a
> justification for anything it is justication for
> anything where love is involved.

Yes it is Pb. However other aspects may over-rule that justisfication.
Its not just a 1-dimensional thing as you are treating it.

As I've said, for the case of pedophilia, the fact that it is abusive overrules the justification from the "love" POV.

In contrast, this is not so for hetro, homo sexual relationships/sex.

Its such a simple and straightforward reasoning that I'm surprised that I have to actually elaborate to you where I'm coming from. sad smiley

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

pb
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 09:30PM
Jun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes it is Pb. However other aspects may over-rule
> that justisfication.
> Its not just a 1-dimensional thing as you are
> treating it.
>
> As I've said, for the case of pedophilia, the fact
> that it is abusive overrules the justification
> from the "love" POV.

Not to the person who argues that desire is its own justification. That's precisely the point I'm making. Desire isn't its own justificagtion, no matter what the desire is or who has the desire.

>
> In contrast, this is not so for hetro, homo sexual
> relationships/sex.

non sequitur

>
> Its such a simple and straightforward reasoning
> that I'm surprised that I have to actually
> elaborate to you where I'm coming from. sad smiley
Jun
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 09:40PM
Desire isn't its own justisfication, precisely Pb and I doubt anyone thinks the contrary.
However for the case of homosexual relationships, like hetrosexual relationships, there is nothing that overules the justisfication argument from the POV of love.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

pb
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 09:46PM
Jun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Desire isn't its own justisfication, precisely Pb
> and I doubt anyone thinks the contrary.

The point is that gays think it is when it is THEIR desire--just not when it is someone else's. Read pondy posts.

> However for the case of homosexual relationships,
> like hetrosexual relationships, there is nothing
> that overules the justisfication argument from the
> POV of love.

Agreed. But no one but you is talking about that.
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 09:55PM
"The point is that gays think it is when it is THEIR desire--just not when it is someone else's. Read pondy posts." -pb

You are so full of bull, pb. Gays and lesbians' desire for love and physical companionship is absolutely no different nor based on any other "justification" than heterosexuals' desire for those things is.

If gays and lesbians think that desire is it's own justification, then so do heterosexuals.

Jun
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 10:08PM
pb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jun Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Desire isn't its own justisfication, precisely
> Pb
> > and I doubt anyone thinks the contrary.
>
> The point is that gays think it is when it is
> THEIR desire--just not when it is someone else's.
> Read pondy posts.

Can you provide a quote, or at least an approximate one. Nothing in her post seems to indicate to me that she thinks that.

> > However for the case of homosexual
> relationships,
> > like hetrosexual relationships, there is
> nothing
> > that overules the justisfication argument from
> the
> > POV of love.
>
> Agreed. But no one but you is talking about that.

Its a related point worth making in addition.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

pb
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 10:09PM
Ponderer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The point is that gays think it is when it is
> THEIR desire--just not when it is someone else's.
> Read pondy posts." -pb
>
> You are so full of bull, pb. Gays and lesbians'
> desire for love and physical companionship is
> absolutely no different nor based on any other
> "justification" than heterosexuals' desire for
> those things is.

And, gays and lesbian's desire for love and physical companionship is also the same as those desires in pedaphiles. Love is love.

Where you have problems is your justification for marriage. The sad reality is that a heterosexual pedaphilic relationship has a stronger argument for marriage than gays do. For you, the best you can say is that your love is as real as anyone else's. Sex between geezers and pubescents can create children.

I have a cousin from hillbilly land in Appalacia who got married at 13 to a guy exactly twice her age. It's been a happy marriage and has produced several happy and well adjusted children--something no same sex marriage has ever done. Your love may be as real as theirs but you can't add to the creation of the next generation, which is what marriage has always been about and explains why cultures that have accepted, even encouraged same sex sex have reserved marriage for heteros.
pb
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 10:10PM
Note to Believer:

If you want to create a hot topic here, just make it about homosexulity.
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 11:10PM
"The sad reality is that a heterosexual pedaphilic relationship has a stronger argument for marriage than gays do." -pb

Based on YOUR narrowly defined, parochially antediluvian justifications for "what marriage has always been about". Based on YOUR blindly narrow minded refusal to acknowledge any other very real and justifiable and perfectly legal reasons that two people in modern times would get married for.

pb
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 11:17PM
Ponderer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The sad reality is that a heterosexual pedaphilic
> relationship has a stronger argument for marriage
> than gays do." -pb
>
> Based on YOUR narrowly defined, parochially
> antediluvian justifications for "what marriage has
> always been about". Based on YOUR blindly narrow
> minded refusal to acknowledge any other very real
> and justifiable and perfectly legal reasons that
> two people in modern times would get married for.

pond,

As a matter of history, why is it, in your opinion, that many cultures in which homesexual sex was accept and even encouraged, that marriage was nevertheless reserved for heterosexuals.

And, BTW, Re: antediluvian

I love it when you go biblical on me.
Anonymous User
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 11:33PM
First, Duffus, you agree that pedophilia has nothing to really do with homosexuality, then you say that G has a point.

Well if G's point is valid, so is mine. Why not compare a homosexual's desire for love and intimacy to that of a heterosexual's? Why not compare the love you feel to that of a pedophile? It's all love, right?


that many cultures in which homesexual sex was accept and even encouraged, that marriage was nevertheless reserved for heterosexuals.

Again, Duffus, why should we base all our ideas on those of the past, just because that's the way it's always been (never mind for the moment that some societies have allowed same sex couples to enter into marriages)? For instance, why should we outlaw slavery, when even the most enlightened societies of the past have always condoned it in some form?

Also, you must know that many, even most, societies of the past have condoned what is essentially pedophilia. It's been common for most of history for homosexual AND heterosexual men to take sexual partners who were much younger than they were. The term "child bride" is a heterosexual construct, not a homosexual one. So, by your logic, since the greatest societies in history have condoned some form of pedophilia, we should too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2010 11:39PM by Ant.
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 11:39PM
"As a matter of history, why is it, in your opinion, that many cultures in which homesexual sex was accept and even encouraged, that marriage was nevertheless reserved for heterosexuals." -pb

Irrelevant question.

But I'll answer it anyways. Because, in my opinion, homosexuals as a group were never organized enough nor saw benefit enough to demand or request it. I think, historically, in societies as you mention, homosexuals were content enough just not being burned at the stake or imprisoned for life for being homosexual to not bother with marriage rights.

What's your point?

Anonymous User
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 11:40PM
Gays and lesbians' desire for love and physical companionship is absolutely no different - Ponderer

Sure it is. My friendship with the same sex carries no sexual desires, as it ought not. Homosexuals have turned the dials so to speak to equivocate the friendship aspect of affections along with the sexual. Friendship is not the exception to go forward in that.

-cic-
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 11:44PM
I see, Cheap.

So... you are therefore saying that you are incapable of being friends with a woman without lusting after her sexually...?

No one is talking about "friendship" here, Cheap. Why you bring up such non sequitur points in such a discussion is a mystery.

Anonymous User
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 28, 2010 11:57PM
How is it different, Cheap? From what my straight friends and I can see, there's no difference between the way I experience love and the way they do. When I'm attracted to someone, I flirt with him. When my friend Sarah is into someone, she flirts with him. When I'm in a relationship with someone I love, I share my life with that person. When my straight friends are in relationships, they share their lives with each other. When I have a rough breakup, I cry and feel immense pain. When my friend Danny broke up with his girlfriend, he cried and felt unbearable loss.

Where, exactly, is the difference?
Anonymous User
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 29, 2010 12:14AM
Ponderer, you know what I said had to do with same sex friendships being brought to same sexual relations so whats the nuanced nonsense really accomplishing for you other than assisting to reconstruct the portion of wall I just brought down.

-cic-
Anonymous User
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 29, 2010 12:28AM
You seem really confused, Cheap. Why is it that you think that having same sex attractions means a same sex friendship must also entail a sexual component? I am friends with many other men and I am not sexually attracted to most of them. I'm even friends with other gay men and don't feel that my friendship with them must necessarily involve a sexual element. Where do you get such ideas?
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 29, 2010 12:36AM
You're the one implying nuanced nonsense, Cheap. You say that what you said had to do with same sex friendships being brought to same sexual relations. As if that's all homosexuality is. That's simply nonsense.

Sam
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 29, 2010 12:44AM
Tony needs homo lessons for when he gets brave enough to come out of the closet...
Jun
Re: Please Do Not Look Downward to Gays and Lesbians
July 29, 2010 03:33AM
Jun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you provide a quote, or at least an
> approximate one. Nothing in her post seems to
> indicate to me that she thinks that.

Pb:
...

Jun:
No?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login



Cookies Consent Policy & Privacy Statement. All Rights Reserved. SelectSmart® is a registered trademark. | Contact SelectSmart.com | Advertise on SelectSmart.com | This site is for sale!