Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!

islander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I've probably tried to explain what I mean when I
> say subjectivity is truth two dozen times since
> I've been on this board."---pb
>
> But truth and subjectivity have real meanings and
> they do not mean the same thing. You demonstrate
> perfectly why, "when words are imprecise, so is
> thought" !

Take issue with K, isle.

I do have admit, as someone whose mastered seven language over the years, that the copulative verb has been an interesting and difficult study in each of them. But, unlike Bubba, I have an appreciation for what the meaning of is is.

Perhaps you should give it some thought.

Fine then, pb. So you believe that subjectivity is truth... but that truth is not subjective.

Thanks. You've cleared it up for us all pretty nicely.

islander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe water freezes at 32 F

Wrong. Water freezes at 0 C.

Subjectivity is Truth is Subjectivity.

I agree with what Kierkegaard said, except his conclusions. We can, naturally, only know truth as subjects because that's what we are...subjects...we're not objects, we can, however, see some things, to varying degrees, objectively. Subjectivity is not truth, it's something that can distort truth. And unless ethics, morals, right and wrong, are meaningless, living one's life in subjectivity and from one's own passion is not necessarily how one should live one's life.

"Wrong. Water freezes at 0 C."---Jeurgeon

I'm correct, 0 C = 32 F !

There is evidence--from the gospels, at least--that the event was investigated and the laws of nature thoroughly considered. The tomb was searched and found to be empty. If the resurrection was merely a spiritual phenomenon, the body would not have been affected. But, the testimony of the gospels clearly makes the point that the body was not in the grave. In the famous 'Doubting Thomas' story, Thomas started out just like you: as a first-class sciencist. He demanded to be able to stick his finger in the hole in Jesus' hand and his hand in Jesus' side. You're acting as if there was no investigation of the claims that Jesus rose from the grave took place.

hey do any of you guys what me to post a rebuttal to this CSI JERUSALEM episode. I know pb doesn't want me to but should I bother. Are you guys gonna read it? The rebuttal is a standard one you probably could find with a bit a research. It's standard because. like the creationist. the "evidence of the Resurrection" mob bring out the same one tired argument over and over again, arguments that have been torn to shreds over and over again. yet like creationists, they dust themselves off and pitch the same argument again. So should I bother....

Ff, I think it would be interesting, so I vote in favor of your posting it!

"I'm correct, 0 C = 32 F !" -Isle

Sorry, isle. Thirty two degrees Fahrenheit equals zero degrees Centigrade but zero degrees Centigrade does not equal thirty two degrees Fahrenheit.

islander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with what Kierkegaard said, except his
> conclusions. We can, naturally, only know truth as
> subjects because that's what we
> are...subjects...we're not objects, we can,
> however, see some things, to varying degrees,
> objectively.

If we only see it to a degree objectively, we don't see it objectively. And, we shouldn't ever delude ourselves to think that we are being reliably objective.

> Subjectivity is not truth, it's
> something that can distort truth.

Explain how acknowleding that you are not ever objective distorts reality.

> And unless ethics, morals, right and wrong, are meaningless,
> living one's life in subjectivity and from one's
> own passion is not necessarily how one should live
> one's life.

I don't think that K was advocating immorality or criminality. He was advocating authenticity.

Remember, isle, that K was a Christian. Jesus was the Lord of His life. The teachings of Jesus were the law by which he lived.

*Celsius

Fascinated_foreigner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is evidence--from the gospels, at
> least--that the event was investigated and the
> laws of nature thoroughly considered. The tomb was
> searched and found to be empty. If the
> resurrection was merely a spiritual phenomenon,
> the body would not have been affected. But, the
> testimony of the gospels clearly makes the point
> that the body was not in the grave. In the famous
> 'Doubting Thomas' story, Thomas started out just
> like you: as a first-class sciencist. He demanded
> to be able to stick his finger in the hole in
> Jesus' hand and his hand in Jesus' side. You're
> acting as if there was no investigation of the
> claims that Jesus rose from the grave took place.
>
>
> hey do any of you guys what me to post a rebuttal
> to this CSI JERUSALEM episode. I know pb doesn't
> want me to but should I bother. Are you guys gonna
> read it? The rebuttal is a standard one you
> probably could find with a bit a research. It's
> standard because. like the creationist. the
> "evidence of the Resurrection" mob bring out the
> same one tired argument over and over again,
> arguments that have been torn to shreds over and
> over again. yet like creationists, they dust
> themselves off and pitch the same argument again.
> So should I bother....

So long as you can avoid piggishness, which you often fall prey to, I'll look forward to reading it.

If it quacks like a duck it's a duck. If it oinks like a pig it's a pig. Can you not be a pig? That's the question.

"Celsius" -Juerg

Centigrade equals Celsius but Celsius does not equal Centigrade, Jurgy.

Ponderer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Celsius" -Juerg
>
> Centigrade equals Celsius but Celsius does not
> equal Centigrade, Jurgy.

Wow, pond, I agree with you.

Gotta get some fresh air.

Quote
Subjectivity is truth.

-pb

This is like a quote out of George Orwell's 1984, where truth and history are merely tools to be manipulated by the ruling party, and have no substance of their own.

“If we only see it to a degree objectively, we don't see it objectively. And, we shouldn't ever delude ourselves to think that we are being reliably objective.”---pb

I didn't say anything about being 100% objective 100% of the time. This doesn’t mean that a person can’t look at something objectively, or that some people can’t be more objective than others.

“Explain how acknowleding that you are not ever objective distorts reality.”

Never said anything like that. Here’s what I said, “Subjectivity is not truth [they each have a different meaning], it’s something that can distort truth.

>And unless ethics, morals, right and wrong, are meaningless,
> living one's life in subjectivity and from one's
> own passion is not necessarily how one should live
> one's life.

”I don't think that K was advocating immorality or criminality. He was advocating authenticity.”

Remember, pb, words have meanings, and like I said, “when words are imprecise, so is thought”. You might want to try clarifying, in your own mind first, the meaning of the words you’re using, and then you’ll be better able to clearly state your thoughts (and your thoughts will become clearer to yourself). Try it, you might surprise yourself!

“Remember, isle, that K was a Christian. Jesus was the Lord of His life. The teachings of Jesus were the law by which he lived.”

And that has “what?” to do with any of this?