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Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!

Posted by PalinIsTheTruth 
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 22, 2009 10:20PM
Wade,

ff is of the opinion that everything in the NT can be explained by the fact that Paul experienced a bout of dehydration. If this is ff then he's stepped it up a notch.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 22, 2009 10:46PM
"But who is PITT?"

Bradley, has it really been you posting all this time pretending to be Palin?
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 22, 2009 10:59PM
How do you explain the 12 Labors of Hercules unless he was in fact the son of Zeus? Surely you're not accusing Euripides of exaggeration!
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 01:12AM
islander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "But who is PITT?"
>
> Bradley, has it really been you posting all this
> time pretending to be Palin?

Angie wouldn't allow it, now if he was still with Jennifer...
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 01:13AM
linc,

Was Euripedes writing about himself to people who knew of those events in his life? Wow!
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 03:50AM
No it ain't me either.
ff is of the opinion that everything in the NT can be explained by the fact that Paul experienced a bout of dehydration. If this is ff then he's stepped it up a notch.
Now now pb, don't exaggerate, the heatstroke theory only explains Paul going blind and hearing a voice of a man he never met (both temporary blindness and hallucinations are actually symptoms of heatstroke as I have mentioned several times before ) I'm not an expert on the psychological effects of vivid hallucinations on a man living in the 1st century but it's obvious the hallucination had a profound effect on Paul (As it would for most people living in such a rabidly supersitious period) hence his conversion for early christian killer to christian zealot.

Of course pb, it's your perogative to believe Paul actually experienced a miracle and heard the voice of a Jesus the son of God, but 9 of 10 scientists would agree my explanation is far more plausible. smiling smiley

Your hero Kierkegaard aka Johannes Climacus wrote that historical reports of miracles should alway be considered as doubtful.

And to quote Thomas Paine “All the tales of miracles, with which the Old and New Testament are filled, are fit only for impostors to preach and fools to believe”.

BTW Happy Sol Invictus day everyone! Or Happy Saturnalia. Or Happy Winter Solice. Eat, Drink, Pull Bongs and be Merry.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 06:45AM by Fascinated_foreigner.
Anonymous User
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 06:45AM
How is anyone of sound mind supposed to explain anything for which there is no verifiable evidence?
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 06:46AM
Pb, and to think that you claimed to have some methods up you sleeves that is superior to the 'limited' (sic) reason and scientific method of acquiring 'knowledge'. tongue sticking out smiley

...Disappointing. sad smiley

I'm Lamb of The Lord. grinning smiley

Pitt

------------------------------------------------------

But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you're a part, and so am I, and they want to bring in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have. In that regard, Pat Buchanan is right. So I say you've got to cap with a number. - Bill O'Reilly thumbs up
Anonymous User
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 08:51AM
You're right, PalinIsTheTruth... I can't explain those miracles.

But what I'm, honestly, more interested in is whether YOU can explain the fact that there's a monster that flies through the air, made of spaghetti, and if you can explain all the miraculous things he's done by a simple touch of his noodly appendages.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster cures the sick, gives sight to the blind, feeds the hungry... I have it on good authority that once, he even raised a man from the dead, with the otherworldly deliciousness of his sacred tomato sauce.

I'd really like to hear what, if any, explanation you have for those things, PalinIsTheTruth.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 10:00AM
Important people with PHDs claim Euripides said he had been told the story of Hercules by people who heard it directly from eyewitnesses. Therefore it is a historical fact.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 10:24AM by linc.
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 03:40PM
Now now pb, don't exaggerate...

Well, ff, I couldn't resist. Apparently you took it in the light spirit in which it was offered.

Of course pb, it's your perogative to believe Paul actually experienced a miracle and heard the voice of a Jesus the son of God, but 9 of 10 scientists would agree my explanation is far more plausible.

It would be interesting for you to try to document that. One thing that has interested me over the years of my life since I became a follower of Jesus is how many people with science degrees believe things that I personally still doubt. They believe in the miracles. They reject evolution. All sorts of fascinating things. My guess is that your 9 of 10 number is hyperbole in much the same way my suggestion that you believe Paul's dehydration explains the whole NT.

Your hero Kierkegaard aka Johannes Climacus wrote that historical reports of miracles should alway be considered as doubtful.

He had a very interesting view of Scripture, no doubt. He's interesting particularly because he died before the Graf-Wellhausen Documentary Hypothesis, which revolutionized for all time, biblical scholarship was published. I have no problem with the notion that the miracles should be considered doubtful, note the word is not 'rejected' though.

However, the miracles of Paul, I think can't be doubted. In their context, being the firsthand account of a known person in indisputed documents, I think the historical evidence for those miracles, is stronger even than the evidence for the fact that Jesus existed at all.

And to quote Thomas Paine “All the tales of miracles, with which the Old and New Testament are filled, are fit only for impostors to preach and fools to believe”.

Thomas Paine was an insane deist.
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 03:42PM
linc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Important people with PHDs claim Euripides said he
> had been told the story of Hercules by people who
> heard it directly from eyewitnesses. Therefore
> it is a historical fact.

I guess, linc, you haven't been reading this thread. We have been talking about first hand accounts of miracles.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 04:27PM
You see, linc, if these eyewitnesses of Hercules had simply written their accounts of him down themselves rather than tell it to Euripides, then we would have first-hand, unassailable proof of Hercules' existence as we do for the Bible miracles.

Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 04:34PM
"Thomas Paine was an insane deist." -pb

Wow. Calling someone insane just because they disagree with you and your beliefs. That's pretty weak there, pb. How dare you seek to deny him his freedom of speech just because he had different ideas than you. Why do you hate freedom of speech so much?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 04:35PM by Ponderer.
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 23, 2009 04:40PM
Ponderer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You see, linc, if these eyewitnesses of Hercules
> had simply written their accounts of him down
> themselves rather than tell it to Euripides, then
> we would have first-hand, unassailable proof of
> Hercules' existence as we do for the Bible
> miracles.

Nice try, there, pond. And the fact is that you can deny the existence of strong historical evidence of the Bible miracles--that's what you are doing. But, you can't change the reality that there is strong historical evidence for those miracles.

It's not that Paul witnesses miracles. It is that he is in coversation with others who were eyewitnesses of miracle he PERFORMED. And, that's strong evidence. Is it proof? No.

But, Paul, not as the point of his letter but as a remark in passing comments on these miracles to others who were in community with him when they happened. He's not arguing that the miracles exists. He's arguing for other things BECAUSE the miracles are a fact that none of those people can deny.

Now, the fact is that there is incredibly strong textual evidence for early Christians miracles. There is more than one text. The writer of the text is a known figure. The documents are acknowledge to be genuine. The context of the mention in the documents suggests that the who community was aware of miracles as a matter of course.

You can do the ostrich thing with these texts if that's what you choose to do. And, no one can stop you. But, that's not intellectual integrity.
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