Forum Index            

SelectSmart.com®
Before you decide
Over 20,000 selectors

Share

This isn't complicated. 2020 is a referendum on Trump.

The job of the Biden campaign is simple, and Trump is helping.
Is your name welcomed below? Then you can post here. Otherwise, click "Log In" to post!
Welcome! » Log In » Create A New Profile

Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!

Posted by PalinIsTheTruth 
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:10PM
32F is truth.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:13PM
Go back and read the previous posts, pb.


"Sorry, isle. Thirty two degrees Fahrenheit equals zero degrees Centigrade but zero degrees Centigrade does not equal thirty two degrees Fahrenheit."
Anonymous User
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:17PM
islander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pondy and Juerg,
>
> I'm curious now, how do you guys convert Celsius
> or Centigrade to Fahrenheit?


Go to Google. Type 0 celsius in fahrenheit. Hit enter.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:18PM
"I was lampooning pb's seemingly contradictory assertions that subjectivity is truth and truth is not subjective."---Pondy

Got it! Thanks Pondy! Sometimes I'm a little slow! grinning smiley
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:20PM
pb, everyone knows that 0C is the One True Temperature.

pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:22PM
Ponderer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pb, everyone knows that 0C is the One True
> Temperature.

But, it's not only the one true temperature, it is truth itself.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:31PM
But I thought subjectivity was truth. Are you asserting that 0C is subjective?

(okay... I'm gonna stop this now. It's gotten too silly)

Anonymous User
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:35PM
It's 273.15 k actually, but only us kelvinists are predestined to believe that.
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:36PM
Ponderer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But I thought subjectivity was truth. Are you
> asserting that 0C is subjective?
>
> (okay... I'm gonna stop this now. It's gotten too
> silly)

Close.

0C is subjectivity.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 04:38PM
When you mix truth with subjectivity...truth can become anything you want! smileys with beer

Kierkegaard understood this and it helped to make him more secure in his beliefs ! thumbs up
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 09:29PM
I think pb and others who genuinely feel their religious beliefs are threatened by science really do understand just what you're saying, and that's precisely why they try so hard to try to make science, just another competing religion.-islander

with all due respect i think pb and others dont understand my point at all.

its irrelevant to my point whether science is thought of as religion. thats a red herring in this argument. if someone wants to call science a religion then let him.

what is relevant is that claims can be distinguished as true or false by reason and cannot be distinguished as true or false by faith. if this statement is incorrect then i hope you or pb will make an argument and not a simple assertion about specifically how it is incorrect.

assuming you cannot make that argument i'll continue.

everyone who has a point of view believes that some claims are true and some claims are false. if they dont beleive this they cannot coherently argue that the claim "everyone who has a pont of view beleives that some claims are true and some claims are false" is false! so since everyone who has a point of view believes that some claims are true and some claims are false everyone also uses some kind of mental process when they come to believe which claims are true and which are false.

almost without exception the mental process that is used with differing levels of competence by people to make this determination is reason and logic.

about the only exceptions are when someone occasionally says that they beleive in something based on faith. invariably when someone says this what is really going on is that they dont have enough evidence to show that something is true but because of a psychological condition they have come to believe that it is true anyway.

pb jeurg and others use reason and logic to form beliefs just like we do. they use reason and logic to make arguments just like we do.

that is, they do this almost all the time.

the only time they fall back on faith is when something is so psychologically unsettling to them that they come to believe something else instead regardless or even in spite of the state of the evidence available and the validity of the logic applied.

a final comment on the red herring 'science is a religion too' thing.

if reason is a religion then whether they realize it or not pb and jeurg are just as devoted parishoners of that church as any of the rest of us is except when it comes to accepting beliefs that disturb them psychologically. then and only then do they weaken and become heretics to the religion of reason.
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 09:54PM
indy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think pb and others who genuinely feel their
> religious beliefs are threatened by science really
> do understand just what you're saying, and that's
> precisely why they try so hard to try to make
> science, just another competing
> religion.-islander
>
> with all due respect i think pb and others dont
> understand my point at all.
>
> its irrelevant to my point whether science is
> thought of as religion. thats a red herring in
> this argument. if someone wants to call science a
> religion then let him.

I don't call science a religion. I merely say that some people use it as a religion.
>
> what is relevant is that claims can be
> distinguished as true or false by reason and
> cannot be distinguished as true or false by faith.
> if this statement is incorrect then i hope you or
> pb will make an argument and not a simple
> assertion about specifically how it is incorrect.

Okay.

When I pray, God hears me.

Reason that out for us, there, indy. Just reason, now. We don't care about wjat you believe.
>
> assuming you cannot make that argument i'll
> continue.
>
> everyone who has a point of view believes that
> some claims are true and some claims are false. if
> they dont beleive this they cannot coherently
> argue that the claim "everyone who has a pont of
> view beleives that some claims are true and some
> claims are false" is false! so since everyone who
> has a point of view believes that some claims are
> true and some claims are false everyone also uses
> some kind of mental process when they come to
> believe which claims are true and which are
> false.
>
> almost without exception the mental process that
> is used with differing levels of competence by
> people to make this determination is reason and
> logic.
>
> about the only exceptions are when someone
> occasionally says that they beleive in something
> based on faith. invariably when someone says this
> what is really going on is that they dont have
> enough evidence to show that something is true but
> because of a psychological condition they have
> come to believe that it is true anyway.
>
> pb jeurg and others use reason and logic to form
> beliefs just like we do. they use reason and logic
> to make arguments just like we do.

We cerrtainly do and are proud of it. We are theists. We believe God created our ability to reason.
>
> that is, they do this almost all the time.
>
> the only time they fall back on faith is when
> something is so psychologically unsettling to them
> that they come to believe something else instead
> regardless or even in spite of the state of the
> evidence available and the validity of the logic
> applied.

Really? For instance?
>
> a final comment on the red herring 'science is a
> religion too' thing.
>
> if reason is a religion then whether they realize
> it or not pb and jeurg are just as devoted
> parishoners of that church as any of the rest of
> us is except when it comes to accepting beliefs
> that disturb them psychologically. then and only
> then do they weaken and become heretics to the
> religion of reason.

You don't get it, there, indy. Your reasoning is defective.winking smiley
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 10:12PM
I don't call science a religion. I merely say that some people use it as a religion.-pb

fine. ive no problem with you believing that. it doesnt have anything to do with the fact that faith cannot determine whether a claim is true or false and reason can.

When I pray, God hears me. -pb

so this is supposed to be your argument for my conclusion that faith cannot determine whether a claim is true or false??? not only is what youve offered an assertion and not an argument but it is an irrelevant assertion that doesnt address my claim.

again my claim is that faith has no mechanism by which to determine whether a statement is true or false. for instance only the claim that washington dc is the capital of the us can be believed when the preponderance of the available evidence and logical argument is presented. but the claim that paris is the capital of the us or that moscow is the capital of the us or that any other city is the capital of the us can be believed on faith.

> the only time they fall back on faith is when
> something is so psychologically unsettling to them
> that they come to believe something else instead
> regardless or even in spite of the state of the
> evidence available and the validity of the logic
> applied.-indy

Really? For instance?-pb

for one thing the claim that jesus walked physically on water. the vast preponderance of the evidence says that it didnt occur. based on faith you beleive that it did.
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 08, 2010 10:48PM
I don't call science a religion. I merely say that some people use it as a religion.-pb

fine. ive no problem with you believing that. it doesnt have anything to do with the fact that faith cannot determine whether a claim is true or false and reason can.
-- indy

Indeed, it does not. Nor would I want it to.

so this is supposed to be your argument for my conclusion that faith cannot determine whether a claim is true or false??? not only is what youve offered an assertion and not an argument but it is an irrelevant assertion that doesnt address my claim.

Just so that you understand that there are realms in which logic and reason may have no place.

again my claim is that faith has no mechanism by which to determine whether a statement is true or false.

And, why would you think that Juergen or I or any of the people at the Harvard Divinity School would need for you to say this?

> the only time they fall back on faith is when
> something is so psychologically unsettling to them
> that they come to believe something else instead
> regardless or even in spite of the state of the
> evidence available and the validity of the logic
> applied.-indy

Really? For instance?-pb

for one thing the claim that jesus walked physically on water. the vast preponderance of the evidence says that it didnt occur.


Really!?

Who was there to gather the evidence?
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 09, 2010 02:44AM
so this is supposed to be your argument for my conclusion that faith cannot determine whether a claim is true or false??? not only is what youve offered an assertion and not an argument but it is an irrelevant assertion that doesnt address my claim.-indy

Just so that you understand that there are realms in which logic and reason may have no place.-pb

the question wasnt are there realms in which logic and reason may have no place? the question was can faith determine whether some claim is true or false? i think your silence on this question speaks volumes.

in re to your red herring, u r correct. there are realms in which logic and reason have no place. those realms are ruled by illogic and unreason, by magic and ignorance, by fear and superstition. they are realms where truth too has no place, places where darkness rules and light is shunned if i may speak metaphorically for a second.



******


again my claim is that faith has no mechanism by which to determine whether a statement is true or false.-indy

And, why would you think that Juergen or I or any of the people at the Harvard Divinity School would need for you to say this?-pb

because the people at MIT and I figure you need a refresher course about this every now and again.



******



for one thing the claim that jesus walked physically on water. the vast preponderance of the evidence says that it didnt occur.-indy

Really!?

Who was there to gather the evidence?-pb

no one as far as i can tell which is why theres no reason to believe that someone once violated physical law in a spectacular way. such absurd assertions are unbelivable prima facie. no argument need be made against them when nature herself argues against them quite convincingly with the force of billions of years of experience.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 09, 2010 02:47AM
Science isn't in itself a religion, but it presents some philosophical issues. Ironically, the Western culture which gave birth to both Christianity and science has evolved away from patriarchal religion in the direction of Eastern thought. All scientific observations support the idea of a universe with no gods, no beginning and no end, one where the preconceptions of everyday human life are inadequate to grasp the cosmos.
Jun
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 09, 2010 07:29AM
Juerg is right. The Kelvin is the one true temperature. grinning smiley Absolute zero is in Kelvin. winking smiley

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 10, 2010 01:14AM
I still like Fahrenheit best!smileys with beer
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
January 10, 2010 02:45AM
the question wasnt are there realms in which logic and reason may have no place? the question was can faith determine whether some claim is true or false? i think your silence on this question speaks volumes. -- indy

Whose question?

You're not one of the people who talks to himself--and ANSWERS too--are you?


no one as far as i can tell which is why theres no reason to believe that someone once violated physical law in a spectacular way. -- indy

Have you heard of punctuation? This is as bad as reading an ancient New Testament MS with no space between words and all CAPS.

I would suggest that you are overstating your case to say that there is no reason. Perhaps there is no reason that fits the presumptions you make but there is not no reason.

such absurd assertions are unbelivable prima facie.

Well, based on your unjustiable beliefs, anyway.

no argument need be made against them when nature herself argues against them quite convincingly with the force of billions of years of experience.

Nature, eh?

Therein lies your unjustiable belief in spite of your inability, apparently rooted in your own subjectivity, to see it. It is the leap of faith that you have made in sciencism.

As Socrates advised, there, indy, "Know thyself."
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login



Cookies Consent Policy & Privacy Statement. All Rights Reserved. SelectSmart® is a registered trademark. | Contact SelectSmart.com | Advertise on SelectSmart.com | This site is for sale!