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Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!

Posted by PalinIsTheTruth 
Jun
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 30, 2009 07:38PM
Juergen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing that surprises me most is that Wade
> didn't hear about the Hindu milk miracle that
> occurred in the '90s, I think. Singapore has a
> fairly large Indian population, doesn't it?

Wasn't that more or less debunked by a "non-supernatural" explanation already?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 30, 2009 09:49PM
wrong, jun. the hindu milk miracle proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that ganesha exists that hinduism is true and ergo that jesus the christ was a liar. surely not even a sceptic like you will doubt the testimony of thousands upon thousands of still living hindus???????????
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 30, 2009 10:04PM
What led you to believe in reasonability, indy? It seems to me that to believe in reasonability defies reason. What do you do it?-pb

prolly the same reason that you do. we both think that to believe in things which are probably true as contrasted with things that are probably false gives us the best chance to survive another day.

the only difference is that i make an effort to be consistent in the application of reason in evaluating all claims and you are all too ready to throw it overboard in the evaluation of particular claims.

but only particular claims. most of the time you like the rest of us believe in reason just as much as richard dawkins does.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 30, 2009 10:23PM
I'm confident in accusing Wade of never, ever actually investigating whether verifiable miracles take place. It is a myth among sciencists that a miracle cannot nor has one ever been verified.-pb

unless you stand just as guilty of the charge that you level at wade as wade prolly does and as i certainly do, its a fair assumption to make to say that you believe that you have verified the occurence of a miracle.

so how did you do this?

how does anyone verify that a strange so far inexplicable event will never not even in a billion years have a natural explanation?
Jun
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 30, 2009 11:23PM
Juergen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It all depends on your willingness to believe or
> disbelieve. The Roman Catholic church officially
> recognises a number of miracles a year, and in
> modern times only after pretty rigorous
> investigation because they don't want to look like
> idiots when the miracles turn out to be fakes.

Is it possible for you list us one or two good examples, and what kind of "rigorous investigation" was undertaken, and what evidence is their conclusion of verification based upon?

On a related note, I'm still searching for that old thread by "Go/Hank" discussing about why God appears to hate amputees, but instead I only found this: [whywontgodhealamputees.com]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 01:57AM
Interesting site, Jun. We had a thread running here quite a while back about faith healing and why God never heals amputees.

It reminds me of my situation. I injured my right eye when I was eleven. It was so badly damaged that they had to remove all of the functional parts of it... the lens, cornea, almost the entire iris. And to top it off I still have a bit of a scar running across the center of my eyeball where it was sutured (ever have stitches removed from your eyeball? I don't recommend it). So I'm essentially blind in that eye.

Anyway, jump ahead to when I was sent to a private Christian high school. (My family wasn't at all religious but I liked the idea of a small private school). I sat there during Bible class listening to the teachers go on and on about the power of prayer and how with faith the size of a mustard seed you could move mountains in Jesus' name and such. We were taught that faith healing was real and told that nothing was impossible for God. But I knew I could go to faith healers for the rest of my born days and I was never going to have my eye healed. I knew, even during the couple years in which I had accepted Jesus, that no amount of prayer to Him was going to restore my binocular vision. The idea that God could heal my eye but just never would, no matter how much faith I or anyone else had or praying I or anyone else did, was a big source of spiritual conflict for me back then. Something of a paradox that eventually helped sour whatever faith I had. I remember thinking of God's bar bet with Satan in the Book of Job and thinking, well, you lost this one, Big Guy.

Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 02:11AM
"The Roman Catholic church officially recognises a number of miracles a year, and in modern times only after pretty rigorous investigation because they don't want to look like idiots when the miracles turn out to be fakes. So, a supernatural claim has been verified in the eyes of Catholics, but in the eyes of hardened sceptics it hasn't because they expect a virtually unmeetable level of verification."---Juergeon

Good one! You nailed us there! How can anyone question this?

"The beauty of the Catholic Church is that we have the fullness of Truth. Our Church has always held that the gifts of the Holy Spirit and supernatural workings of God continue to this present day for the edifying of the Body."---Catholic Answers..."The Church will show extreme carefulness [investigating miracles], because in doing so it simply cares for that supernatural vitality of hers of which miracles are the most palpable signs. One, however, needs not only a physical but also a spiritual sort of palpation, to detect those miracles. "---The Splendor of the Church

As you can see, it's not because the Church doesn't want to look like an idiot that it carefully investigates approved miracles!

By the way, Juerg, do you know what the "vigorous" investigative procedure is and the what the Church requires for an event to be approved and accepted as a miracle? It's on the lookout for a miracle right now so that Pope Pius IIX can be beatified, they might have one already for John Paul in a woman who prayed to him shortly after he died and was apparently miraculously cure of Parkinson's disease.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 02:24AM
What irritates pb and Jeurg most, is the fact that they have to, whether they like it or not, live by the natural laws that we believe, even though they claim something different, “What Juergen has pointed out is that what you call our "knowledge and understanding of the known physical laws of the universe and the rules of logic" is yours, not mine”---pb

Too bad, pb, you are perfectly free to believe what you want...but you can't transgress the natural physical laws of the universe or the rules of logic...try it someday! smoking smiley
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 03:44AM
indy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What led you to believe in reasonability, indy? It
> seems to me that to believe in reasonability
> defies reason. What do you do it?-pb
>
> prolly the same reason that you do. we both think
> that to believe in things which are probably true
> as contrasted with things that are probably false
> gives us the best chance to survive another day.

I employ reason for sure. But, I don't BELIEVE in it as you do.
>
> the only difference is that i make an effort to be
> consistent in the application of reason in
> evaluating all claims and you are all too ready to
> throw it overboard in the evaluation of particular
> claims.

In that case, you do it rather poorly. You seem to be guided by emotion at least as much as by reason.
>
> but only particular claims. most of the time you
> like the rest of us believe in reason just as much
> as richard dawkins does.
Anonymous User
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 06:26AM
Isle, how's things for you lately? You posts have the tone of a bipolar in his manic phase.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 09:42AM
Catholics' idea of a miracle


My idea of a miracle:
Jun
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 10:00AM
Ponderer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting site, Jun. We had a thread running
> here quite a while back about faith healing and
> why God never heals amputees.

Yeh I remembered that one, I think it was started by Hank/Go.
We even joked about why not the legs being restored complete with socks and Nike shoes.
And I even mused about what would happen if a big burly hairy guy who have lost his legs would suddenly wake up the very next day finding himself with slander long legs complete with stockings and heels. I guessed he'd probably kill himself! XP

> It reminds me of my situation. I injured my right
> eye when I was eleven. It was so badly damaged
> that they had to remove all of the functional
> parts of it... the lens, cornea, almost the entire
> iris. And to top it off I still have a bit of a
> scar running across the center of my eyeball where
> it was sutured (ever have stitches removed from
> your eyeball? I don't recommend it). So I'm
> essentially blind in that eye.

sad smiley Sorry to hear that Pondy. Sadly we are still a long way to go before affordable installation of artificial eyes becomes a reality. Must had hurt like hell! I cringed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Juni {^á´¥^}


"Don't judge other people just because they sin differently from you!" ~ Anon

Three things you (probably) don't know about Islam
[www.youtube.com]

Welcome To Belgistan -- The New Muslim Capital Of Europe
[www.youtube.com]

Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 03:40PM
Quote
pb wrote:
I'm confident in accusing Wade of never, ever actually investigating whether verifiable miracles take place.

so what would a rigorous investigation of a verifiable miracle look like? well according to jeurgen and pb essentially it amounts to taking the word of the catholic church.

Quote

jeurgen wrote:
The Roman Catholic church officially recognises a number of miracles a year, and in modern times only after pretty rigorous investigation because they don't want to look like idiots when the miracles turn out to be fakes. So, a supernatural claim has been verified in the eyes of Catholics, but in the eyes of hardened sceptics it hasn't because they expect a virtually unmeetable level of verification.

pb wrote:
Exactly, J.

these guys are incredibly easy. if some tv preacher hasnt already bilked them of thier life savings its only a matter of time until one does.

jeurgen says that the catholic church verifies miracles only after a "pretty rigorous investigation" yet neither he or pb has a clear idea of just what that rigorous investigation entails. they just take the catholic churchs word for it. amazing.

if anyone has a prayer cloth for sale i can give you the name of two prospects where you might unload it. more free advice. tell them the catholic church has verefied that its been autographed by jesus and double your asking price.
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 03:42PM
linc you have secured my vote for pontiff the next time that gig opens up.
pb
Re: Atheists still can't explain the miracles of JESUS!
December 31, 2009 03:53PM
Juergen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isle, how's things for you lately? You posts have
> the tone of a bipolar in his manic phase.

Interesting, J., I notice that there's a tone--a 'tude--in his posts lately.
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