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Women's suffrage was a mistake

Posted by myce 
Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 12, 2009 09:57AM
I expect a rabid backlash from the PC hate machine, but just hear me out. Before women could vote, the family, and not the individual, was considered the basic unit of society. Divorce, child abuse, domestic violence and crime were very rare. But once women could vote, it began a whole paradigm shift that has caused the breakdown of the family and unraveled the fabric of society. Once women were allowed to make their own decisions regarding politics and social policy, they hedonistically demanded even more rights without consideration toward their effects on society as a whole.

Men were forced to shoulder the backbreaking burden of an obligation to respect women's rights. Women wanted to make money for themselves, and they took jobs away from men who were supporting their families. They took away a man's right to hire whomever he wanted to hire, and to pay a woman less since she was just going to get pregnant and quit or demand time off anyway. They took away a man's rights to free speech to comment on a woman's breasts or touch her butt.

Women stopped submitting to their husbands, which has caused an increase in domestic violence and rape. Some men cannot handle the stress of their obligation to refrain from dominating women, so they are forced to get East Asian mail-order brides who are sweet and submissive, unlike bitchy Western women who won't even make him a sandwich. Because society tolerates and even celebrates selfish female hedonism, women can divorce men for no reason at all and raise children who grow up to become ghetto trash who shops at Walmart and get the cops called on them all of the time.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 12, 2009 12:47PM
Right on, Sister!

Not to mention how personally short-sighted it was for women to fight to get the vote.

I mean before, we were allowed to vote, we never had to give voting a second thought! We had the freedom of ignoring the entire electoral process and not worrying our pretty little heads about it at all!

Now that we do have to vote, the obligation has been imposed on us to have to choose whether we are going to vote or not! We used to have freedom, now we are enslaved and encumbered by tedious and inconvenient obligations!!!

Oh we were so blind... so... so very blind!!!...............

Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 12, 2009 05:14PM
Freeing the slaves was also a mistake.

When Negroes were enslaved by southern plantation owners, their family units were more cohesive. You didn't have Black dads losing their jobs, becoming hopeless drunks or leaving their families, because the slave owners wouldn't allow that to happen to their investments. The southern American economy was booming and everything was generally hunky dory in the south (and also in the north) when Negroes knew their place in White society and were kept there by law, not to mention whips.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2009 05:16PM by PowerToThePeople.
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 12, 2009 05:52PM
You know, the more I think about it, the more I realize that it should have been called "The Bill of Obligations".

Anonymous User
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 13, 2009 07:21PM
Exactly. Why do you think historically the right to vote and participate in the governing of nations has been reserved for men? If something has been one way for most of history, it must be for a good reason.
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 12:02AM
Where's The Poomeister? George? Aren't you going to agree that women's suffrage has been a disastrous social experiment? Even if I exaggerated a wee bit, isn't it clear that it is bad for society for women to have choices?

__________________________________________________________________________________________
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 12:34AM
"Even if I exaggerated a wee bit, isn't it clear that it is bad for society for women to have choices?" -myce

You are so right in pointing this out, myce.

I am sure that historically, women weren't allowed to vote for a simple and socially beneficial biological reason.

Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 12:48AM
Nope, that's just women trying to put themselves at the centre of everything as usual. The main problems aren't universal suffrage or workplace discrimination laws or domestic violence laws or no-fault divorce.

The main reasons why families and society at large are breaking down are welfare and the systematic deconstruction of middle-class values. People have forgotten how to be a family, and worse than that, they think they've transcended the need for family.

(I'll pretend I'm more confident in that analysis than I actually am for Myce's sake)


“Forget the war between the sexes. If being equal means we have fight and have the 50% chance of divorce for every marriage we have, forget it. Let's respect each other for what we are and try to get along with more respect. "Equality" might be an illusory goal, since we've each got different equipment, inside and out, but respect and compassion are eternal.” — Barack Obama



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2009 12:50AM by Juergen.
Anonymous User
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 01:08AM
So, G, simply giving people equality and full civil rights isn't the problem? You're saying that despite the obligations men had to take on, giving women the right to vote was a good thing?
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 01:26AM
"The main reasons why families and society at large are breaking down are welfare and the systematic deconstruction of middle-class values." -George

So cutting a family off from welfare will keep them from "breaking down"? Ooooo-kaaayyyyyyy.......

And just what are some examples of the "systematic deconstruction of middle-class values" of which you speak?



Or would they be irrelevant to this discussion...?

Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 01:34AM
Ant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, G, simply giving people equality and full
> civil rights isn't the problem? You're saying
> that despite the obligations men had to take on,
> giving women the right to vote was a good thing?

What are you talking about, Ant? Your ditz brain is turning in on itself again.


“Forget the war between the sexes. If being equal means we have fight and have the 50% chance of divorce for every marriage we have, forget it. Let's respect each other for what we are and try to get along with more respect. "Equality" might be an illusory goal, since we've each got different equipment, inside and out, but respect and compassion are eternal.” — Barack Obama
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 01:38AM
Ponderer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So cutting a family off from welfare will keep
> them from "breaking down"?
> Ooooo-kaaayyyyyyy.......

I don't think I did say that.


> And just what are some examples of the "systematic
> deconstruction of middle-class values" of which
> you speak?

I was just reading this description from one of my favourite writers -
Quote

The elevation of emotion over principle, of inclination over duty, of rights over responsibilities, of ego over the claims of others; the impatience with boundaries and the promotion of the self as the measure of all things: what could be more modern or gratifying to our current sensibility?

[www.city-journal.org]


“Forget the war between the sexes. If being equal means we have fight and have the 50% chance of divorce for every marriage we have, forget it. Let's respect each other for what we are and try to get along with more respect. "Equality" might be an illusory goal, since we've each got different equipment, inside and out, but respect and compassion are eternal.” — Barack Obama
Anonymous User
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 05:18AM
G, the original post, if you even bothered to read it instead of just reacting, is an extension of the same logic you've used in your "F*ck your rights" posts. Did you even notice?

You claimed that giving gay citizens full equality would force obligations on you (though you have yet to tell us exactly what these obligations are).

Hence myce's statement: "Men were forced to shoulder the backbreaking burden of an obligation to respect women's rights." (Which is not too different from saying that straight people like you would have to shoulder the burden of the obligation to respect gay couples' right to marry.)

In other words, your complaint about how granting civil rights forces obligations on you was applied to the example of women's suffrage.

Then you said: "The main problems aren't universal suffrage or workplace discrimination laws or domestic violence laws or no-fault divorce."

Meaning that giving a minority group equal civil rights does NOT inherently involve a burden on anyone else, since it was these other things you mentioned in your post and NOT the granting of universal suffrage rights, discrimination laws, etc. So you must realize that by the same token, giving gay people full civil liberties in itself won't necessarily involve a burden or obligation on you.

Since your soggy brain obviously has trouble catching sarcasm, I'll let you in on a secret...

The original post was a sarcastic argument using the EXACT SAME "reasoning" that you and Poops have used in two other posts now, and you walked right into it.

Get it?
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 08:33AM
He gets it, Ant. These "obligation" threads of his are pure satire. You know how he likes joking around.

I mean... "Let's talk about my obligations please... but I won't tell you what they are because they're irrelevant"???

You really out did yourself this time, George, and we totally fell for it! You droll, waggish rapscallian you!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2009 08:45AM by Ponderer.
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 12:19PM
Actually, Ant, Myce was using sarcasm to mask her secret fear that this might be true, so I was reassuring her that it isn't. While you were busy giggling and passing notes to your boyfriends about Daniel Radcliffe or whatever I was acting like a real man and looking out for my fellow forum-goers.


“Forget the war between the sexes. If being equal means we have fight and have the 50% chance of divorce for every marriage we have, forget it. Let's respect each other for what we are and try to get along with more respect. "Equality" might be an illusory goal, since we've each got different equipment, inside and out, but respect and compassion are eternal.” — Barack Obama
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 04:07PM
"I was acting like a real man and looking out for my fellow forum-goers." -George

LOL!!!

Like you are with threads like "How to make cocaine"?

LOL!!!

You madcap, wisecracking quipster! grinning smiley

Anonymous User
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 14, 2009 08:21PM
If you're such a man, G, why don't you have the balls to tell us what obligations you'll have imposed on you when gay marriage is legalized?

Make whatever snarky comments you want. You can't erase the fact that you are STILL evading your own question.
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 15, 2009 01:14AM
George you have noted that I make an effort to understand different points of view. I took that as a compliment thank you. My original post was mostly mockery, obviously, but you are correct that it contains grains of truth even if you are just being funny. But you indicated that you are not so certain, is that right? Not so certain, of what? Does it make you uncomfortable that I pointed out parallels between opposition to women's rights and gay marriage? Or that there was more to the opposition to women's rights than the underestimation of our capabilities? Back in the day even some women opposed women's suffrage. But contrary to your suggestion, I do not fear that opponents of women's rights may be correct. I am very confident that the arguments in favor of women's rights are much stronger than the arguments against.

I think the curse of Eden, including patriarchy (but not necessarily oppression), was a sociobiological inevitability. Modern people have overcome much of the pain of the curse through technological and cultural evolution: we have air conditioned tractors and egalitarianism. (Most) men in the developed world are no longer compelled to live short hard lives of labor, and (most) women are no longer held hostage by their innate vulnerabilities. This is a good thing George. If you ever doubt that... you know we have some issues with our technologies and the pollution/destruction they cause. That is a problem with the design of the technology not with the technology itself; it means we need better tractors, not to get rid of the tractors altogether. Same thing with women's rights, if you perceive a problem with it then we need to go forward to solve the problem not backward.

Welfare is a double-edged sword, and it is a complex issue that I have not studied thoroughly. It is too simple to point to welfare as the cause of social problems, as it has done a lot to help people. But on the other hand it is naive to claim that it doesn't trap people into a lifestyle of learned helplessness and/or irresponsibility. As for the disintegration of family values, I don't know- it's another complex issue. I think conservatives tend to exaggerate the problems while liberals tend to downplay them too much.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 15, 2009 04:41PM
myce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> George you have noted that I make an effort to
> understand different points of view. I took that
> as a compliment thank you. My original post was
> mostly mockery, obviously, but you are correct
> that it contains grains of truth even if you are
> just being funny. But you indicated that you are
> not so certain, is that right? Not so certain, of
> what?

The welfare rant.


> Does it make you uncomfortable that I
> pointed out parallels between opposition to
> women's rights and gay marriage?

No. It doesn't follow that I'd think one expansion of rights is good because I think another is.


“Forget the war between the sexes. If being equal means we have fight and have the 50% chance of divorce for every marriage we have, forget it. Let's respect each other for what we are and try to get along with more respect. "Equality" might be an illusory goal, since we've each got different equipment, inside and out, but respect and compassion are eternal.” — Barack Obama
Re: Women's suffrage was a mistake
July 15, 2009 06:01PM
When Negroes were enslaved by southern plantation owners, their family units were more cohesive. -- pt

It is a myth--and a racist one at that--that only negroes have ever been slaves.

------------------------------------

Subjectivity is truth. -- Soren Kierkegaard
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