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Meditations on Pythagoras...

Posted by Kairos 
Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 16, 2009 05:53AM
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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 09:43AM by Kairos.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 20, 2009 04:37AM
This is a very good insight into the "design" of the universe.

As science has unraveled one mystery after another, a certain pattern has emerged; previously unexplained phenomena, upon explanation, turn out to be governed by simple physical rules rather than intelligent direction. According to the best current theories, lightning is not the result of the gods fighting, planets are not pushed around their orbits by angels and mental illness is not caused by demonic possession. Given this pattern, it's reasonable to assume that, pending evidence to the contrary, the universe was not created by an infinitely powerful intelligent entity and is simply the outcome of undirected physical processes like everything else we've examined so far.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 20, 2009 05:21AM
Are you sure it wasn't designed by some mathematicians with a penchant for colorful fractals?

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 20, 2009 09:23AM
"Colorful fractals" are the complex results of very simple processes, which is linc's point. They don't require something as complicated as a mathematician to design them. They can, and probably do, arise by themselves naturally.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 20, 2009 10:07AM
Ok, but what about this one?

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 20, 2009 05:21PM
What about it?
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 20, 2009 08:40PM
Where did that one come from?

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 20, 2009 10:38PM
It says it came from someone named larry carlson.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 21, 2009 12:14AM
Where did Larry Carson see it?

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 21, 2009 10:04AM
I don't assume that he saw it anywhere.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 21, 2009 11:13AM
Incorrect.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 21, 2009 05:13PM
It is incorrect that I don't make an assumption that I say that I don't make???

How it it possible that you know what I don't assume better than I myself know it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2009 05:15PM by Henry M. Paulson.
Sam
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 21, 2009 06:58PM
Never mind...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2009 07:02PM by Sam.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 21, 2009 10:17PM
HMP I'm not saying that you don't assume merely that your assumption was incorrect.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 21, 2009 11:43PM
But I made no assumption. How can a non-assumption be incorrect?

To repeat, I said I do NOT assume that the artist saw the image that he drew before he drew it.

It's entirely possible that he did see the image before he drew it, but I have no knowledge that he did and certainly no reason to assume that he did.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 22, 2009 12:04AM
I have knowledge and reason to assume that he did.

It is a typical LSD vision. His art was from the erowid visionary art vault, where artists make images inspired and based on the visions from visionary chemicals.

I've seen literally thousands of such visions.

I've also drawn similar pictures while under the influence.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2009 12:05AM by Kairos.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 22, 2009 01:51AM
I'm afraid I don't see your point, Kairos.

Great complexity does not require complex, purposeful intelligence. The application of a few reiterated simple rules is all that is necessary to produce almost infinite complexity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2009 01:59AM by Henry M. Paulson.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 22, 2009 02:08AM
To put this another way, to argue that complex causes are reliably inferred from complex effects is to argue fallaciously.

Your argument is the old "watchmaker" argument that was popular early in the 19th century but thoroughly discredited by Darwin a few decades later.
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 22, 2009 02:53AM
I see your point and agree with it to an extent. That fractals may be as common place as a natural geometric rule as triangles, squares and circles.

However where the question gets tricky is how the human brain evolved into a machine that produces massive amounts of fractal calculations in the background. One idea I have regarding this is that, because the world around us is based on fractal mathematics in order for the brain to orient itself and find bearing it had to generate fractal models to imitate the world in order to navigate it.

However some very common fractals are simply suggestive of something other than pure cartesianism.



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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Meditations on Pythagoras...
May 22, 2009 09:18AM
What do you think it is suggestive of, Kairos? If the application of reiterative simple steps can lead to virtual infinite complexity, why does that suggest anything more than simplicity?

Maybe sometimes we focus too much on the complex, elaborate results of evolution without fully appreciating the almost unimaginable eons in which those results had to come about.
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