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Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?

Posted by tuk22 
Anonymous User
Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
August 17, 2015 03:03AM
Indy you said a lot of stuff and didn't back anything up. Why do YOU think it would be 20% if we did a flat tax? Why would you think a national sales tax be 20%. My state, Fl< doesn't have an income tax and we do fine. We have a sales tax of 7%. We still purchase cars and houses also. It doesn't hurt our home and car sales. The system we have now sucks big hairy ones man. If a system is so f***** up that there is a whole industry built around it or the politicians use it to harass opposition parties, or it is so messed up that they can always use it to nail a criminal, or innocent, person because they can't pin a murder charge on him. If we had a flat tax or national sales tax it would be harder for the politicians to pass pork spending and harder for them to raise taxes.
Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
August 17, 2015 04:24PM
If all you want to do is focus on the handful of negatives about a social program while completely and totally ignoring the millions of lives that it benefits and literally saves, as it was meant to, you go right ahead. Just don't expect anyone to take your opinion seriously.

Any program is going to have abuse. You don't condemn the entire thing because of it. If you want to talk about addressing those issues, that's fine. There is always room for improvement. Let's talk about that. But I am sick to death of people attacking a program like welfare like it's this horrible thing going on that needs to be destroyed because of a few cases of abuse.

I understand that your having lived in an inner city in the 70's gives you wide and all-knowing authority to speak for the entire program of welfare as it is administered throughout the whole country in 2015, but I am respectfully refusing to acknowledge that authority. Forgive me.

And while we're at it, a flat tax is an asinine idea. As is a national sales tax.

Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
August 17, 2015 04:29PM
Stock brokers routinely break the law and cheat in their trading practices.

Let's close down the stock market.

Police routinely abuse and even kill innocent, unarmed citizens.

Let's abolish police forces.

Prescription drugs routinely kill people who use them as directed.

Shut down the pharmaceutical industry.

Guns...

Oh don't even get me started.

Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
August 17, 2015 08:06PM
Latch - I live in Florida and only pay 6% sales tax. Of course none of that goes towards the military, medicare, yada, yada - all the things the federal government must pay for. There have been plenty of studies on a flat tax and it's only a gift to the ultra wealthy - no one else. You need to look beyond what Fox News and Herman Cain are telling you. There's a reason no industrialized nations have a flat tax.

Edit: Here's some info on the flat tax from an economics professor (as opposed to the rich folks and people serving rich folks you usually hear from on this issue)...

According to an analysis by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, Mr. Cain’s proposal would increase the annual tax bill of a typical family of four earning $50,000 a year by more than $4,000, but would reduce the taxes owed by a similar family earning between $500,000 and $1 million by almost $60,000.

So - using simple math - if you're earning in the $50K range and paying (ballpark figure) 15% on your taxes now... Add in another 8% ($4K / $50K) according to the figures above and you're now paying 23% tax.

[www.nytimes.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2015 08:15PM by Indy!.
Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
August 19, 2015 08:26PM
Quote
tuk22
Kinda the Robin Hood argument

I guess you would also have to consider not only is it against freedom who manages the redistribution?

How much trust do you have in your wealth manager?

I understand all taxation = redistribution most of us believe in taxes but why do we desire to economically punish the successful? Is that a good message to promote? We want to help the homeless, children, the elderly, the sick... But should we redistribute wealth by mandate to make a poor persons life a tad more comfortable?

Try to see both the pros and cons if you can

The basis of arguments against redistribution seem to be based on very fuzzy thinking and illogical assumptions.

The jobs in society are what they are. People don't choose the fact that a capitalist society relies on a huge number of low paid workers, a smaller number of mid paid workers, and a tiny minority of high paid workers.

I have noticed a general theme particularly with Americans, but also conservatives everywhere, that people are poor because they don't work hard enough, and people are rich because they work hard.

This seems to suggest that by sheer graft and determination, people could will there to be a huge number of high paid jobs, and a tiny number of low paid jobs. In such a scenario, society would collapse over night.

The market is what it is, a civilised market driven economy adopts a socialist policy to ensure that no one lives in poverty.

Why should people be punished for something beyond their control?

And where exactly is the supposed hardship for the high paid people?

If person A makes $100,000 a year and person B makes $105,000 a year, which one is more hard off? Neither are hard off at all, they are both obscenely rich. Meanwhile, the difference between those two wages would completely change the lives of millions of people living in imposed poverty.
Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
August 20, 2015 06:07AM
Here here, Thorn. thumbs up

I'll wager that the most common reason that wealthy people are wealthy is that they took much more care and consideration in picking who their parents were than poor people did.

Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
August 20, 2015 11:27AM
Quote
Ponderer
Here here, Thorn. thumbs up

I'll wager that the most common reason that wealthy people are wealthy is that they took much more care and consideration in picking who their parents were than poor people did.

As ridiculous as it sounds, that isn't so far from a nonsense world view that is seldom challenged - the general notion that being in a low paid job is somehow a personal failure the individual should suffer some hardship for.

As though they set their wages, as though they conceived of an economic system whereby the majority of available jobs in society are low paid, as though there is anything they can do about it.

The underlying sentiment of "well if they'd tried harder they could have raised themselves up" belies a complete disconnect with reality.

There are the jobs there are in society. Every single low paid person in society can work as hard as they like - it's not going to change how many low, to mid, to high paid jobs are available and most of them are still going to have to do low paid jobs to prevent the complete collapse of society.

What is in our control is how we structure our society to make this a non-issue. A low paid job is not a problem if that person has access to free health care for their family, if their tax rate is lower and the better off people's tax rate is higher, if there is provision for free child care, a liveable state pension when they retire, affordable housing, and a fair minimum wage that allows them to survive, or at least tax credits to offset any small difference between minimum wage and what it is calculated is required.

Provided society is structured in the right way you can have a market driven economy much as it is today - with a majority of low paid workers, a minority of mid paid workers, and a tiny amount of high paid workers - and no one need be crushed by poverty.

That is what a civilised society is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2015 11:28AM by TheThorn.
Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
August 20, 2015 04:51PM
I love how right wingers will confidently state that people in low-paying jobs that abuse and take advantage of workers just need to improve themselves and move up to better jobs. Like no one would take their place. They are basically declaring that there simply must be low-paying jobs wherein workers are abused and taken advantage of. Like it's the immutable foundation of our economy or something.

Many conservatives have not progressed very far, if at all, from the slave owning days of the 1800's.

Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
August 21, 2015 07:32PM
Great points!!!!!!

This discussion should probably be in the Politics forum.
Anonymous User
Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
January 06, 2016 12:10AM
Trump will make america great again.

Eliminate commie SOCIAL security and obama care and food stamps programs that are stealing from the rich who earned every penny of their wealth to help the lazy poor who don't go to college and prefer to lead the lifestyle of poverty and entitlement of higher wages!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2016 12:12AM by NaWeh.
Anonymous User
Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
January 06, 2016 09:55AM
You commies just want to punish the wealthy by making them pay higher wages to losers would would have settled for less in the first place supported by your socialist food stamps, taxing the winners more and preventing those who made it from owning that second mansion or struggle to pay for their private planes, or investing in politicians in a FREE market. Do you socialists even have a morals and conscience???
Anonymous User
Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
January 25, 2016 05:18AM
"Mandated wealth redistribution" AKA "Trickle-down economics": Moral or Immoral?
Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
January 25, 2016 10:00AM
Quote
BillaryHlinton
"Mandated wealth redistribution" AKA "Trickle-down economics": Moral or Immoral?

It's immoral to sell it as a viable economic philosophy. Trickle UP is more viable as the poor spend all or most of their money, meaning they buy things from wealthier people: the merchant class. Whoever puts money in circulation is helping the economy, which benefits everybody.




"White power! White power!" --Demented Racist Donald Trump


Re: Is mandated wealth redistribution immoral?
March 18, 2016 12:45AM
Which means you should be supporting Bernie.
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