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Towards a constructive and meaningful conversation on the fundamental nature of the universe

Posted by TheThorn 
Sam
Re: Towards a constructive and meaningful conversation on the fundamental nature of the universe
February 19, 2015 04:59AM
Ok, nevermind. I would try to get all analytical about it but I won't. I gotta move along, tho. I'm sure it's not what anyone wants to explore. Your interests seem to be restricted to godthings while mine is in humans. I do hope you agnostics all get your stories straight, tho. winking smiley
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Sam
Ok, nevermind. I would try to get all analytical about it but I won't. I gotta move along, tho. I'm sure it's not what anyone wants to explore. Your interests seem to be restricted to godthings while mine is in humans. I do hope you agnostics all get your stories straight, tho. winking smiley

You and Dick seem a lot more interested in 'Gods' than anyone else on these forums to be honest.

You constantly try and convince me to 'admit' I believe in God regardless of what I say, and Dick has spent this thread vociferously arguing against including any religions that don't attest to a God figure in the discussion.

It should be obvious what I want to explore - the OP is pretty detailed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2015 10:41AM by TheThorn.
Re: Towards a constructive and meaningful conversation on the fundamental nature of the universe
February 19, 2015 11:04AM
TheThorn wrote: You and Dick seem a lot more interested in 'Gods' than anyone else on these forums to be honest.

To be honest, maybe we're just more honest about that. Some want to talk about god's existence but they don't want to talk about it openly. Apparently they feel more comfortable using euphemisms like purpose.
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Dick
TheThorn wrote: You and Dick seem a lot more interested in 'Gods' than anyone else on these forums to be honest.

To be honest, maybe we're just more honest about that. Some want to talk about god's existence but they don't want to talk about it openly. Apparently they feel more comfortable using euphemisms like purpose.

No mate, you're obsessed.
What I want to have a discussion about is the core issue:

- The view that the universe exists for a reason
- The view that the universe exists for no reason

And whether it can be rational to be certain of either to a great enough extent to declare it a belief.

It is Dick constantly obsesses over western God 'character' myths, to the extent that he refuses to even acknowledge the existence of centuries old religions who don't have them.

Why?
Re: Towards a constructive and meaningful conversation on the fundamental nature of the universe
February 19, 2015 04:23PM
I'd like to discuss that the universe exists for a reason.

So what could that reason be?

I'll start...



Because the universe not existing was not an option.




.

I'd still like us to agree to some meaningful definitions so we can begin a meaningful discussion, but that hope seems futile.

Seriously, over ten years, dozens of forums and hundreds of Strong Atheist keyboard warriors - why am I not able to find a single one honest enough to actually discuss Strong Atheism and what it means?

What are they all so scared of?
Sam
Re: Towards a constructive and meaningful conversation on the fundamental nature of the universe
February 19, 2015 06:25PM
Why do you think I'm scared?
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Sam
Why do you think I'm scared?

I don't actually.

Although I was in fact referring to Dick, I don't think he's actually "scared" either - more avoiding being put in a position out of his comfort zone:

Where he has to justify his own beliefs rather than lazily attack the beliefs of others.
Re: Towards a constructive and meaningful conversation on the fundamental nature of the universe
February 19, 2015 07:40PM
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Ponderer
I'd like to discuss that the universe exists for a reason.

So what could that reason be?

I'll start...



Because the universe not existing was not an option.




.

That seems to be a reason to believe that the universe has no purpose.

Why does the universe exist? Not for any particular purpose, but because it could not not exist.

Thanks, Pondy!
Re: Towards a constructive and meaningful conversation on the fundamental nature of the universe
February 19, 2015 07:55PM
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TheThorn
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Dick
TheThorn wrote: You and Dick seem a lot more interested in 'Gods' than anyone else on these forums to be honest.

To be honest, maybe we're just more honest about that. Some want to talk about god's existence but they don't want to talk about it openly. Apparently they feel more comfortable using euphemisms like purpose.

No mate, you're obsessed.

If you need to believe that, then fine. Actually I think I'm "obsessed" with the subject of critical thinking. This is the reason that I oppose your positions so often (e.g., your positions on conspiracy theories, aliens zooming around our atmosphere, and of course the existence of God (or purpose, to use your favorite euphemism).
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Dick
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TheThorn
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Dick
TheThorn wrote: You and Dick seem a lot more interested in 'Gods' than anyone else on these forums to be honest.

To be honest, maybe we're just more honest about that. Some want to talk about god's existence but they don't want to talk about it openly. Apparently they feel more comfortable using euphemisms like purpose.

No mate, you're obsessed.

If you need to believe that, then fine. Actually I think I'm "obsessed" with the subject of critical thinking. This is the reason that I oppose your positions so often (e.g., your positions on conspiracy theories, aliens zooming around our atmosphere, and of course the existence of God (or purpose, to use your favorite euphemism).

So why is it that you so frequently drop out of conversations the second a point gets made that you can't find a Richard Dawkins pre-packaged aegument to regurgutate in response to?
Re: Towards a constructive and meaningful conversation on the fundamental nature of the universe
February 19, 2015 09:10PM
Here's a critical thinking tip for you, thorn: Your last response is a non sequitur.

Need more detail? Well, you see, whether or not I "frequently drop out of conversations the second a point gets made that you can't find a Richard Dawkins pre-packaged aegument to regurgutate in response to," has nothing whatsoever to do with my being obsessed with critical thinking.

Do you fully understand how rational debate works, mate? Your emotions seem to override your common sense too often when you formulate your responses. Try to stay cool and think through things.
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Dick
Here's a critical thinking tip for you, thorn: Your last response is a non sequitur.

Need more detail? Well, you see, whether or not I "frequently drop out of conversations the second a point gets made that you can't find a Richard Dawkins pre-packaged aegument to regurgutate in response to," has nothing whatsoever to do with my being obsessed with critical thinking.

Do you fully understand how rational debate works, mate? Your emotions seem to override your common sense too often when you formulate your responses. Try to stay cool and think through things.

It's not non sequitur at all.

If you were a critical thinker you would be capable of taking part in a reflexive conversation.

You aren't.

You are capable only of throwing arguments at people, the same arguments every single strong atheist has been using online for some ten years now, and then collapsing if anyone gives you a response you don't have a pre-prepared argument against.

Take this thread. You have dropped out. I put a summary of where we are up to a few posts back. It's there to pick up whenever you feel like it, if you want to show off your critical thinking skills.
Re: Towards a constructive and meaningful conversation on the fundamental nature of the universe
February 19, 2015 09:42PM
"That seems to be a reason to believe that the universe has no purpose." -Dick

No it doesn't. I was merely addressing the reason, or the explanation why the universe exists. It exists because it couldn't not exist. In my opinion of course. The universe could still have or not have a purpose or meaning. The reason that the universe exists is because given the absence of nothing, this is the result.

Why does a birthday cake exist? From a totally physical level, it could be said that the reason it exists is because certain elements came together and were subjected to certain circumstances which resulted in what is known as a "birthday cake" existing. The purpose or meaning behind the birthday cake existing can be looked at as a separate issue. I know this is not a perfect analogy, but I think it makes my point. I do recognize that the word "reason" could be taken to mean more than I am attributing to it here. I am just overlooking the definitions that would relate to meaning or purpose.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2015 09:44PM by Ponderer.
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