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Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?

Posted by Ponderer 
Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 01:57AM
I agree with Indy's examples.


"Your whole-hearted endorsement of the drug ecstasy is duly noted."

"Other drugs give the users the sense of having enhanced capabilities. LSD gives the user an enhanced sense of enlightenment,"

Source?

"another dubious claim."

Since you're the one making it and without a source.


"Same for marijuana. Write down what seems like your brilliant ideas and insights next time you are stoned--they will seem pretty banal when you are straight again. "

Carl Sagan was a regular cannabis smoker so you fail again.

And I've written many interesting ideas down while stoned and they were just as interesting when I came back to the notes and used them later. Writing though is not something I usually do stoned. Rather the thoughts and insights I recall later and have written down thoughts which have been described as beautiful simply recalling exactly my thoughts and insights when I was stoned. The aesthetic appreciation and it's inspiration in a river valley for example was and appreciation of music I can definitely say have been significantly enhanced by smoking cannabis. That cannabis enhances musical appreciation is obvious to all except those with blindfolds.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 02:04AM
Sam,
So you think a person can be empathetic about somebody's misfortune but NOT sympathetic. Seriously? Without referencing the NBA finals, I'd like to hear another example.

Anyway, what you were describing (loss of a loved one, etc.) matches the definition of sympathy, not empathy. Honestly if my child died, I'd rather hear the sympathetic "I am so sorry for your loss" than the empathetic "I feel as badly about this as you do". The latter would get a "shut the F up!" from me.






Trump is unintentionally sabotaging his own and Republican candidates' campaigns.

Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 02:08AM
Quote
Kairos
I agree with Indy's examples.

And I've written many interesting ideas down while stoned and they were just as interesting when I came back to the notes and used them later.

As for the first point, what I just asked of Sam goes for you too.

As for your "interesting ideas", let's see just one.






Trump is unintentionally sabotaging his own and Republican candidates' campaigns.

Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 02:10AM
If you could be sympathetic about someone, but not empathetic why couldn't you be empathetic but not sympathetic about someone?

I'll give you an example of how this can work. A person is operating a switch to electrocute a hardened criminal. The person does not sympathize with the criminal, because they consider that the criminal deserved it, but as the person is being electrocuted they empathize their pain.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 02:13AM by Kairos.
Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 02:17AM
Quote
Kairos
If you could be sympathetic about someone, but not empathetic why couldn't you be empathetic but not sympathetic about someone?

Because empathetic is defined as a step beyond sympathy. It's like saying that a person cried but did not frown; of they laughed but didn't smile. But the reverse could be true. You can frown and not cry or smile and not laugh.






Trump is unintentionally sabotaging his own and Republican candidates' campaigns.

Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 02:21AM
Curt - You and HHH should get together and form a comedy team.
Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 02:38AM
"As for your "interesting ideas", let's see just one."

I refer you to my post:

[www.selectsmart.com]

"Because empathetic is defined as a step beyond sympathy."

You mean how you define it.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 02:49AM
Quote
Kairos
"As for your "interesting ideas", let's see just one."

I refer you to my post:

[www.selectsmart.com]

"Because empathetic is defined as a step beyond sympathy."

You mean how you define it.

So what part of that post is your "interesting idea"? Creating a link? Copying something? The National Institutes of Health? Or what?

Not just how I define the words, but every dictionary's definitions of the words.






Trump is unintentionally sabotaging his own and Republican candidates' campaigns.

Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 02:54AM
I quite literally only quoted three sentences in that entire post. The rest was written by myself. There isn't just one idea in there. There are many to form a composite whole.

"
Not just how I define the words, but every dictionary's definitions of the words."

Please Curt at least make it a challenge to show your statements being false:

This was literally the first dictionary I found on google:

[www.merriam-webster.com]

"Empathy the feeling that you understand and share another person's experiences and emotions : the ability to share someone else's feelings"

No mention of the word sympathy there.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 02:57AM by Kairos.
Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 03:00AM
Kairos,
Apparently you have a lower bar for what passes as an idea, much less an interesting idea than I do. What you wrote in that post I call a mix of statements and opinions.






Trump is unintentionally sabotaging his own and Republican candidates' campaigns.

Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 03:05AM
Of course you are going to be condescending to my idea, because you're an egotist, but that's beside the point. The fact is you are pre-biased in your judgement and anything I would have said you would have said was uninteresting much like Salieri in the film saying 'too many notes and yawning.' This is a fact otherwise you wouldn't have asked me to show something I'd said that was interesting and this is obvious to myself and everyone here even before you posted. In fact I already predicted 100% your clockwork predictable response.

I will instead leave my post to unbiased people who are not you or me.

Did the other posters here find my ideas, and thoughts in that post interesting or uninteresting?

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 03:08AM by Kairos.
Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 03:15AM
Nobody is saying that you thoughts are uninteresting, Kairos.

What you linked to isn't an idea. Plus I doubt that you come up with that post while you were stoned.






Trump is unintentionally sabotaging his own and Republican candidates' campaigns.

Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 03:27AM
Curt to put the central idea which I presented in a nutshell: Since it has been shown that MDMA enhances empathic processes in the brain (sourced to the link) by increasing serotonin and norepinephrin levels in the brain, that this demonstrates that such empathic processes already exist in humans, but are simply heightened by the higher levels of neurotransmitters being flooded to the point where such capacities are obvious to the conscious rather than simply operating unconsciously in the background for some.

That idea was not present in the article. The article seemed to already accept empathic processes as an a priori reality; whereas my idea was to show a proof that such empathic processes exist.

The other central idea I presented, which was not present in the article was about the evolutionary theory of how empathic processes were built into the language areas of the brain (the Brocas and Wernicke's area) so as to facilitate advanced social organization.

"Plus I doubt that you come up with that post while you were stoned."

You obviously haven't been around me when I'm stoned.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 04:00AM
The real question you've been asking is can certain drugs enhance certain abilities? And the answer is of course: Otherwise steroids wouldn't be banned in the Olympics.

Olympic athletes already have athletic abilities and can use their natural abilities and it's like that with empathy. One doesn't need ecstasy to have innate empathic abilities, but it has been demonstrated to enhance and bring those abilities out.

Since such abilities have been shown to exist it stands to reason that empathy exists and is a human characteristic.

I've shown both how the mechanics seem to operate and have provided evolutionary theory, which explains why such faculties exist.

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"Build yourselves a wall of ships!" said the Oracle!
Re: Empathy - An Old Fashioned Notion Whose Time Has Passed?
February 17, 2015 05:12AM
Curt, this is simply flabbergasting. I can't believe you don't get this.

Empathy is not about actually knowing exactly what a person is thinking and/or feeling like being able to read their mind. I not only don't give a flying rat's ass if it's impossible to do that, I AGREE that it's impossible. That is absolutely and totally irrelevant to being able to feel empathy with/for someone or some people by imagining what it must be like to be in their situation, by imagining yourself in their place and imagining what your thoughts and feelings would be if you were experiencing the same thing or things they are.

Are you now going to declare that there's no such thing as imagining because what one imagines won't be totally 100% accurate?

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