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Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?

Posted by Dick 
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 14, 2015 10:33PM
Quote
Indy!
Well I think we can all agree on that. But it's not going to happen by one-on-one debate imho.

I disagree. I do think it's rare, almost to the point of never happening in fact for anyone to publicly say, "You know what? After debating various aspects of this topic with you and the others for the last couple of years I've come around to your point of view. I was completely mistaken about that and you were totally right."

We (and I'm definitely including myself in this group) don't do that because we have too much ego invested in the argument.

What does happen sometimes is that the beliefs we hold change -- usually slightly, sometimes more substantially -- and so do our arguments.

There are times that this happens when we ourselves don't even realize that it's happened. We are all prone to believe that what we believe today is pretty much what we've always believed. We even go so far as to unconsciously reinterpret old memories to reflect our current beliefs, which is kind of amazing when you think about it.
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 14, 2015 10:36PM
What's going to be more influential... the family, your cleric, social/peer pressure and a lifetime of thought process - or a Facebook post? Hmmm....

I think you're falling into your own special brand of "magical thinking" on this one. But that's jmho...
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 14, 2015 10:39PM
Not saying it never happens, Dick - or that there's NO influence whatsoever. I'm saying whatever there is - it's very small. It's simply too easy to walk away from your cyber "friends". Everyday you have to deal with whatever pressures and societal standards you've been dealing with your entire existence. Sam here herself has said in the past she's given up on the people in her real life.
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 14, 2015 11:20PM
Spot on, Dick. thumbs up

(Did that just happen?)
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 14, 2015 11:28PM
No, Hornsy, that did not just happen. I have the ability to explain away what I see with my own two eyes, and I can assure you that you did NOT just agree with me.

It's much more likely that we were both simultaneously slipped some sort of drug by the Belief Fairy than it is that we actually agree about something.

winking smiley

It's good to be on your "side" for a change.
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 15, 2015 01:33AM
Dick, Sam

We are fuking Americans in reality we think more alike then y'all willing to admit. All 3 of us are humanists who believe in personal freedom... We believe in reason and science... Rational discourse dictates we should come to a common understanding on all matters... only faith separates us

To believe in what can be proven true, to disbelieve in what is proven false, and to withhold judgment on everything else...

So who is wrong, seriously do you believe rational discourse is subjective? There is no way I can agree to that...
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 15, 2015 01:49AM
Don't know where you got that I believe we are less similar than alike. I don't believe that at all. We do disagree about a few pretty fundamental concepts, though. For one, we seem to disagree about the probability of the existence of a god that interacts or has interacted with the world.
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 15, 2015 01:59AM
You believe in fuzzy math, stop that
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 15, 2015 02:26AM
Probability as it relates to belief is not fuzzy math (and belief is what we are dealing with here). It's actually a quite simple concept.
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 15, 2015 02:33AM
For one, we seem to disagree about the probability of the existence of a god that interacts or has interacted with the world. - Dick

Right - I don't believe in a being called "God" or "Allah" who created the universe and gives commands to everyone to carry out his will and promises you eternal damnation if you don't help him do that.

If that's what you mean.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2015 02:41AM by Hornswoggle.
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 15, 2015 02:43AM
Ok using probability to show how confident you are is fine... Using probability to show that your metaphysical belief is true is nonsense
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 15, 2015 02:48AM
Hornsy, you don't believe in any sort of god. Isn't that your position?

It's just that you believe you also have to quickly add that you don't disbelieve in God, either, in the hope that no one will mistake you for an atheist who also doesn't believe in the existence of God.
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 15, 2015 06:34AM
I believe there is much more to existence than what we can wrap our heads around, and that there probably isn't a way it could even be explained to us.
Re: Anybody want to talk about how all this got here?
February 17, 2015 04:17PM
I'm not clear how not knowing everything is any more reason to say that maybe God exists than it is to say that a giant cosmic turtle exists upon which the earth rests.

I agree that there might be lots of things that we don't know and will never know. Still, that's not even the slightest reason to believe that tomorrow we'll discover something that will negate everything we think we know up to this point.

All we can really do is to evaluate the evidence that we have, continue to collect more evidence, and make our best judgments based on that. That method has been shown to lead to truth more often than any other method for discerning truth that we know of. (And by 'truth' here, I mean no more than the most accurate description of the universe that we have to date.)
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