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Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...

Posted by tuk22 
Sam
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 07:46AM
Right and wrong are always relative and so not universal at all. Unnecessary suffering is wrong? What is un/necessary suffering? Regardless, it's still relative. A hunger strike for an important cause, for example. To him, suffering is the right thing to do. Some people set themselves on fire for a cause they believe is right. Euthanasia is illegal ffs. What is the unnecessary destruction of value? There is no moral code that did not come from some human's brain and then mouth to ear. Someone gets an idea and gets people on board. Are you suggesting there must be some supernatural force that imbues us all with morals while we sleep, sprinkled over our eyes like fairy dust? Every value, every code, every idea of right and wrong came/come from people just like you and me. Nothing special, nothing miraculous, nothing out there.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 07:56AM
That's exactly what he's suggesting. Tuk's usual game - try to bring god to people without actually mentioning the word god. Like his "pro-choice" stance that doesn't involve any actual abortions. Morality is based on self preservation - there is nothing magical about it. Eons ago, we (humans) figured out we get ahead faster and easier if we don't have to spend most the time looking over our shoulders to see if one of our fellow homo sapiens is trying to club us for our cash or the turkey leg we're chewing on. The golden rule is common sense - not an edict from a magic man living on a cloud.

Some things are very simple - some people make it hard.
Sam
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 06:14PM
Agree. That said, I think tuk considers himself agnostic just like you do so it seems you are on the same page where gods are concerned but differ in your politics.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 08:05PM
Right and wrong are always relative and so not universal at all.

So I'm in my own right to slap you in the face for being such a stupid bitch? That wouldn't offend you? What if I spit on you after that fierce backhand?

Unnecessary suffering is wrong? What is un/necessary suffering?

Seriously? You can't think of any situation where a person suffers needlessly?

A hunger strike for an important cause, for example. To him, suffering is the right thing to do.

No, I don't not believe martyrdom is necessarily a good or bad thing... There are many better ways to promote a philosophy or cause...

What is the unnecessary destruction of value?

Think, I'm positive you can give us an example...

Are you suggesting there must be some supernatural force that imbues us all with morals while we sleep, sprinkled over our eyes like fairy dust?

There could be a rational foundation for morality... yes...
Sam
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 08:49PM
None of that made any sense and as usual around here with the name calling...closet woman beater...outie
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 09:01PM
Was I wrong to say that?
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 09:17PM
So are you now realizing Sam that although there are ethical dilemmas to be reasoned, some principles are universal to humanity? Do you still want to go with the everything is relative stance?
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 09:22PM
Woman beating... Relative? Bad for the USA, good for backwards tribal societies, or always wrong?
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 09:56PM
The difference is Tuk is lying when he says he's agnostic (if that's what he says). I know he's proselytizing posting on the theology board all the time with (very) thinly veiled pro-god nonsense. That seems to be his favorite board - and the god question seems to occupy most of his time - which would make it highly unlikely that he is agnostic (or anything other than just another garden variety Christian rightwingnut). Don't know what it is about the right - but they seem to be embarrassed at times when it comes to their true beliefs. On the internetS, I've run into many pretending to be "liberals" who they claim "we're left behind by the party" or other such nonsense. Same with Christians pretending to not be religious but continually posting god nonsense in an obvious attempt to get their hooks into some fresh meat. Tuk clearly falls into BOTH categories imho.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 11:27PM
Is baby torture relative? Is that a defensible meta ethical position? What about burning a 20 in front of a starving person? Could that possibly be considered moral excellence in any society?
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 05, 2014 11:34PM
You know what I like a lot about Pondy and Horns? Not their unwavering adherence to liberalism and hatred for anything that goes against it... But I do applaud their moral consistency... And I'm a sucker for a good moral argument... Anyone can convince me of a truly greater good...
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 06, 2014 12:38AM
The entire "morally relativity" argument seems to exist for only two reasons...

1. As a very short-lived and now rejected idea that hasn't been used by the left since the Nixon era.

2. As a crutch used by GOPers who can't have an honest debate without pulling a red herring like "moral relativity" out of their rectum.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 06, 2014 01:01AM
Quote

Right and wrong are always relative and so not universal at all.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 06, 2014 01:48AM
That's universally wrong. smoking smiley
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 06, 2014 04:41PM
"You know what I like a lot about Pondy and Horns? Not their unwavering adherence to liberalism and hatred for anything that goes against it... But I do applaud their moral consistency..." -Tuk

Would that there were more of it in this world.

Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 06, 2014 11:32PM
Moral consistency is a hallmark of true liberalism - so I doubt some of our board members would like to see more of that (if we were somehow able to get the absolute truth from them)... eye rolling smiley
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 07, 2014 03:36PM
smileys with beer, Indy!.

Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 07, 2014 03:55PM
"Not their unwavering adherence to liberalism and hatred for anything that goes against it..." -Tuk

You say that like it's a negative thing.

Anyway, I don't believe that is an accurate assessment of my position anyways. I don't hate people for going against liberalism itself. I hate when people go against what liberalism focuses on... minority rights, personal freedoms and such. I am always open to implementing better ideas than what liberals can come up with. It's just so phenomenally rare that conservatives ever do that. Why should I have an accepting rather than hateful attitude towards opposing policies that would make things worse? And in many cases, the same policies that have time and time again proven to make things worse?

Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 07, 2014 10:51PM
You can always spot a Republican by their misunderstanding (and hatred) of the terms "liberal", "liberalism", etc... Which of these things can be considered negative or not desirable...?

liberal
[lib-er-uh l, lib-ruh l] adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression:
a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant:
a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
Re: Dawkins says it's immoral not to abort DS babies...
September 09, 2014 07:10PM
You say that like it's a negative thing..

It is. Conservatism, as a wide ranging political philosophy, is not some force of evil. Only some who call themselves conservative may lack moral fiber... It's a completely valid concept, such as libertarian conservatism... Arguing for free markets, personal responsibility, social liberties, unnecessary government regulation...

I hate when people go against what liberalism focuses on... minority rights, personal freedoms and such

It's not contradictory to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal arguing for minority rights like gay marriage... I'm for it and so are most people I see who call themselves libertarian...
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